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SUV gas mileage - Feel free to participate
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Comments
I'd skip the Pilot and look at the compact class. If you want a dramatic improvement in fuel economy, look at the Escape hybrid, the Vue Greenline, or non-hybrids like the Subaru Forester, Honda's own CR-V, Nissan's Rogue, and a Toyota RAV4.
Let's take a peek at some EPA numbers, just for reference. I know real-world mileage is different, but at least we have a level ground to compare.
Annual fuel costs:
2006 Expy 4WD, $4113
versus brand new AWD/automatic models...
Pilot, $3203
CR-V, $2621
Forester, $2621
Rogue, $2506 (CVT)
RAV4, $2402
versus the hybrids...
Vue, $2056
Escape, $2056
EPA makes lots of assumptions, but the numbers serve for comparison purposes.
A Pilot could save you a pretty decent $910 per year. But a RAV4 would save you nearly double, $1711. Hybrids would literally save you a little over half your fuel bill, or $2057.
If you want a dramatic improvement, go with a smaller crossover or even a hybrid. They cost a bit more but both offer tax rebates to offset a big part of that cost.
I could be happy with a small SUV, but they all come with small seats. I'm 6'2" and 260 #. I would like the Escape with no console and Expedition seats!
I'd skip the Pilot and look at the compact class. If you want a dramatic improvement in fuel economy, look at the Escape hybrid, the Vue Greenline, or non-hybrids like the Subaru Forester, Honda's own CR-V, Nissan's Rogue, and a Toyota RAV4."
He also said: He has occational need to tow 3500# and haul 8 people on vacation.
SO !
Why not give the EXPY to the kids and buy a super mileage hybrid sedan. Something super economical for everyday use and Borrow the Expy for those special occasions. Kids shouldn't mind letting him borrow it since he gave it to them.
Of course he has said he is a big guy and needs a car to accomodate him. That gets back to some type of SUV, as you suggest, or large sedan. None of which will give that giant leap "SUPER" mileage.
wvgasguy then wrote: > "Money is not an issue, saving fuel is my concern. I'm willing to pay to do that,"
Real world says you simply can't have a fuel sipping hybrid small vehicle that will haul 8 people, that will tow 3500#, with 4WD, right now. Life is a compromise. Decide your priorities and go from there.
Kip
I like your hybrid sedan suggestion a whole lot better, but it may be hard to downsize in such a radical manner because most sedan trunks can only carry 13 or so cubic feet of stuff, and he's used to a 100+ cubic foot opening.
That's why I went to compact crossovers. They won't be quite as much of a shock to downsize into. You still have 70 or so cubes, yet mileage improves dramatically.
If there was a hybrid station wagon, I would have recommended that.
Now, big seats? Hmm, attend a local auto show and sample all the seats back-to-back. Our Forester has really good head room, but check the leg room as well. Not sure about the others.
I have to squeeze in to my 93 Miata so I know what it feels like to be cramped, but I don't take that on longer trips.
For your small vehicle, you might consider the Ford Escape Hybrid, it gets around 31 in all cycles (real world, 2009 AWD model).
Of course, they are pricey...
Absolutely !
Problem with down sizing is that things get smaller.
Friends of ours recently decided to down size on house and car.
Traded in their 2-3 year old Expedition w/5.4 for a new Explorer with 4.6.
He said his payments are lower. Reluctantly admitted, there are a lot more payments. Fuel mileage, is about the same, according to him. And now he feels cramped in the smaller car. :confuse:
The new smaller house had to be able to hold all the "Big" furniture that was in the really "Big" house. Found a super deal on a new house ( builder foreclosure) but had to down size selling price for his old house, and get rid of a lot of furniture.
So now these 2 people in their 60s are having to learn to live with a tiny Explorer and a smaller house.
FWIW he is about 5'10" and 250#. She is about 5'6" and 175#.
It is all about perspective!
Kip
I think a car show would be a good idea. You can "test fit" several vehicles, even from different segments, and narrow it down to a short list where you were truly comfortable.
Being that tall may even limit your options (no moonroof, perhaps).
I know an Expy is good for a large guy, as is a Tahoe. Big, wide seats and good arm rests help a lot. You might be cramped in a compact anything.
Money no object, a hybrid Tahoe would do everything you want and still gets 20mpg even in the city. They're $50 grand, though.
If I give my kids the Expedition, I really wouldn't see it reasonable to pay $50K for a Tahoe to get 5 mpg better FE. I don't mind spending money but still want to make a wise decision. I can't see paying $10K for the hybrid in a Tahoe. I don't think these will do well and thus hold their value.
I am leaning at this point towards the Mercedes diesel or the Escape Hybrid as my two choices
>"I need to tow 3500# (not all that much, just my tractor or jet skis), I need 4wd (live on a hill in snow "at times" country) and I wanted size to haul the family (8 on vacation)."
Mercedes ML 350 starting at $47,250 will tow the weight but only carries 5 souls.
The GL class starting at $53,400 will tow the same and carry 7 souls. Still short on carrying folks capacity. Fuel mileage for either is 18/24 according to Edmunds. Not the giant leap in fuel mileage you are looking for.
On the other hand, the AWD Escape Hybrid starting at $33,385 is rated at 29 city and 27 hyway. Yep, less on the road than in the city. But still pretty good. Definitely a giant leap compared to the Expedition.
It carries 5 souls and I didn't see a "Tow" rating. However with it's 2.5 liter gas engine, I wouldn't think it would meet your needs in hauling people or towing.
On the third hand, :shades: the Pilot AWD starts at $29,195. Hauls 8, tows 4500# and gets about the same fuel mileage as the Mercedes Diesel. It has 5" more shoulder room than the Escape and 2" more than the Mercedes. Within 1.5" of the shoulder room in the Expedition. Considerably more maximum cargo capacity than the Escape. Not sure about cargo space when compared to the Mercedes.
As far as MPG goes, On our 03 Pilot AWD we have gotten 27+ mpg at 65 mph on an 1100 mile trip, and 18 mpg at 80+ mph on a 350 mile trip. Locally, we get 17-19 mpg, every time. Typically the road mileage is 23-25 mpg at 70 mph. Honda longevity is legendary. If you haven't spent some time in one, maybe you should.
Kip
Escape hybrid cannot tow 3500 pounds. I'm not sure if the hybrid is rated to tow at all, come to think of it.
Bluetecs are nice. Not cheap, but they should last and hold their value.
Pilots are nice. GM's Lambdas are also nice and can tow 5200 lbs now, best in class. Gas mileage is good, too, but watch out for price with options.
In that same class, also test-fit (again the seats are a big issue for a big guy) the Subaru Tribeca, Mazda CX9, and Hyundai Veracruz, since those 3 are getting STEEP discounts right now. You could get one with leather and a GPS for a price of one without those things about a year ago.
With big discounts, you can probably get one of those 3 fairly loaded for under $30k, and still tow your 3500 lbs.
1000 lbs, but I would not recommend towing...
So that's out.
Thanks for sharing that info. My sister-in-law just got a pilot recently, but it's a base model. She seems happy with it, but I don't know what mileage she's getting. I have an 04 Expedition 2WD, but I've been a very conservative drive. I go 12 miles round trip most days to/from the MARTA station, and I am getting 15 MPG average. On the highway, I can get 20 MPG. I've found that as long as I am a conservative driver, I can keep the MPG above the EPA ratings.
I do enjoy having that space for camping trips and road trips with the kids. My old Passat wagon just couldn't haul all of our gear, and when I tried renting something larger, I could seldom reserve what I wanted at a reasonable price. So the SUV works for me. When the wife finally puts her 10 year old, 135K miles Passat to rest, I think I'll keep it as my commuter car and park the Expy in the garage for camping and weekend trips with the family.
Take care.
1) K&N Filter
2) Cold Air Intake
3) Throttle body spacer
4) Headers
5) True dual exhaust
6) Flowmaster
7) New computer chip
8) New ignition system
9) Anything I'm missing?
Any suggestions appreciated!
SDTREX
I think throttle body spacers fall under the category of Gas Saving Gizmos & Gadgets.
You may not like the ride but you can pump the tires up a bit over the recommendation on the tire label on the door frame (or glove box).
Toss any extra weight in there. Maybe you can live without carrying the spare around? Extra tools, sandbags -- all that stuff adds up and can hurt your mpg.
What Really Saves Gas? And How Much?
We Test the Tips Part II
This beast will utterly demolish any sub compact car not only in an accident (God forbid) but also at the gas pump! She weighs roughly 3 1/2 tons!
Her fuel thirsty 42 gallon gas tank is a HOG at the gas pump. I get roughly 7-8 miles per gallon. AND I AM SO PROUD OF IT! this beast will do anything i ask, and wont hesitate. And i feel very safe in it. Gas prices are finally falling below $2.00 a gallon here I say ROCK ON BIG RIG, SUV, TRUCK DRIVIN MOTORISTS!!! :shades:
But some things that can certainly help considering your driving habits would be:
1)Synthetic oil . (may gain between 1-4 mpg depending on the engine type and condition - ie, wear)
2)Less restrictive air filter (may be 0-.5 mpg improvement)
3)Tires inflated 2-4 psi above manufacturer recommendation ( 0.1 - 0.3 mgp improvement - careful with this to prevent premature wear and poor handling)
4)using a engine warmer in winter so engine reaches optimal temp quickly)
5)Changing transmission, differential fluids & other lubricants regularly - once a year maybe to keep friction robbing wear at bay.( but not overdoing it)
6)Developing correct driving technique for acceleration, cruise and slowing down.
7)Limiting alternator loads by using less power demands - high blower speed, music loud, heated, seats dome/interior lights on when vehicle is off.
8)Taking out unnecessary weight like removable seats etc.
if any of you out there have any more tips - please let me know as well.
I have a 2008 Honda Crv
City driving, 21 MPG
Highway 29-34 MPG
Really light foot - flat road - 39 MPG - (No Hypermiling)
The good news is that I walk to work and will use this for family outings only.
Yes, since its only on outings - multiply the MPG by the number of people sitting in the vehicle - ie @ 15 mpg, with 6 people on board you'd be getting 90mpg! Look at the guy driving the prius turn green with envy!
We'll have to create a new unit of measure for this. Let's call it pmpg, passenger miles per gallon.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
if you have disconected battery, you might have caused your re-learn air/fuel mixture to be set abnorlmal causing you to be getting an abnormal MPG.... or make you think its that so called winter fuel mixture from gas station.........
Looked at the Lincoln MKX too. Finally after telling myself there is no sense in spending big bucks to buy a vehicle that is only marginally comfortable (the M35 is the only one with a comfortable rear seat) I got to thinking about FE again. I still wanted roomy and good FE even though gas has dropped to $2.09 here. I just can't see wasting resources that much with the 17mpg vehicles (I'm morre green than I thought_the TCH did that to me)
I looked at the Escape Hybrid again and it was just too small. I finally looked at a Highlander Hybrid and found it to be quiet comfortable with a lot of flexibility with the second row seating. While not an aggressive 4wd, it did have 4wdi which from all I could research would meet the needs. I still have the Expedition for another year of lease and would have time to see if the HH meets my SUV needs (it will tow 3500 pounds). I give up the Camry's 37mpg for a year but will look at putting the Expedition in the kid's garage next year and getting another Camry Hybrid, a Prius or looking at the diesel's or see what the domestics have if they are still in business. Buying the HH gives me a lot of flexibility over the next year to see what my next step will be. Who knows, I think a 370Z would look good in m y garage too.
So, it's a "toy" of an SUV (I know calling the HH an SUV irritates some of you) but it meets my needs for comfort, travelling with the grandkids (very small 3rd row seat), and towing and I'm feeling comfortable that I'll have no problem exceeding an average FE of 25mpg.
It's now in my garage
As for getting the best mileage, I second the idea of taking excess weight out of the vehicle. My kids, for instance, accumulate junk like Happy Meal toys, and before you know it they have 100 in the car.
New rule - no more toys (they're junk anyway), plus I made them clean out the car. Each child can bring their one favorite toy, that's it.
Seriously :confuse: You drive a 5000+ pound SUV and you're concerned about the weight of a bag full of plastic toys?
Then again maybe not eating happy meals will keep a couple of hundred pounds off the family average over the long term
Backing off about 5mph would probably yield 10x more in gains.
Our Forester weighs about a ton less and I hit a 36mpg peak this week. Definitely using every trick in the book, though.
Our van weighs about 4270 if the brochure isn't lying.
My guess is that an empty roof rack has little effect on mileage. Anyone seen any data that says otherwise or care to speculate?
I tried once and it was not easy. Gotta ask other Sienna owners what's the trick.
took a 265 mile trip the following weekend through mountain areas at 70 to 80 mph and got 20.25 mpg////////////// BACK TO NORMAL..
if you notice your mpg dropp, did you have your truck at the dealership? did you disconect the battery? this is the most common cause for bad mpg.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Just make sure you don't lug the engine.
Avoid short trips, and try to combine errands so the engine is already warm when you start.
For instance, the position of the car when fueling. Generally if it is leaning away from the filler tube, the tank will accept more fuel, same if sitting with the front lower than the rear. So for more accurate calculations, always use the same pump with the car sitting in the same position.
Set the nozzle "Switch" at the slowest setting and let it run until it clicks off, and STOP! EVERY TIME.
Just using some numbers for the sake of example.
We drive 225 miles and it takes 15 gallons to fill the tank on level ground.=15 mpg. If the car is leaning away from the pump or the front is down hill, the tank may take 16-17 gallons. = 13-14 mpg. Since it has taken on 1-2 extra gallons of gas, the next 225 miles might take only 13-14 gallons if filled on level ground again.= 16-17 mpg.
Throttle position can also make a difference. I've found that with our 03 pilot I seem to get better mileage when using enough throttle to allow transmission shifts, without lifting my foot, at 2200 rather that 2000 rpm. However at 2500 the mileage is worse than letting it shift at 2000. Engines have sweet spots that are the most economical. Delicate balance between engine economics and transmission shifting, which goes back to engine economics. Seems to be an ever ending circle.
And as ateixeira said above, you may have been doing more driving with a warm engine.
My work commute is 6-7 miles depending to the route I take. With air temperature at 40 degrees the cold started engine will deliver 16-17 mpg. With engine at operating temps, more in the 21 mpg range. Shorter drives reflect lot bigger differences.
A Scan Gauge II is a useful tool as it can show all types of functions. Most useful to me are instant real world mileage and trip mile which can be reset any time. Even resetting it for different trips, it will still keep track of todays mileage as well as previous day and tank. Wonderful and useful toy!
Short version: Don't get terribly excited about a particularly good of particularly bad tank of gas. There are too many variables. :confuse:
Kip
Wasn't the EPA 14/18, something like that? That was even before they revised those figures down in 2008 or so.
Your highway mileage is actually better than I expect.
Yup, with the battery disconnected, it will prevent you from driving it. Which in turn will increase the gas mileage infinitely. :P
The longer you keep the battery disconnected, the better overall fuel economy you will get.
I don't think it works like that in the real world though. The computers may have to relearn, but they are always compensating depending on what signals the various sensors are sending them.
It's a cheap experiment to try (assuming that you don't lose a radio antitheft or other security code when you disconnect the battery and have to pay a dealer to reset it).
Longer-term it may have small gains, but I bet checking the tire pressure more often works out just as well.
Yeah, check the tires, toss out the extra junk stashed in the back of the SUV, anticipate the red lights. That simple stuff goes a long way.
I am 5'10" 320 pound male that loves his roominess(for lack of a better word). I am currently in the market for a FORD Escape V6.
Can't forget that important fact! :shades:
You may have gotten 0.01 mpg better without him.