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What's the best vehicle for my needs?

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  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,241
    I'll agree with your husband.

    While they're hopefully better than they used to be, I'll tell you what I say to everyone I know who considers a VW: Everyone I've ever known in my entire life who has owned a VW loved the car but would never buy another. Too many small things go wrong and every one costs a few hundred bucks to repair.
  • All the cars we looked at in our price range (5K) seemed, frankly, dangerous. My husband said he wouldn't pay $1,500 for any of them let alone $5,000. What are some good cars that we should look at in this price range?

    Again, all we really need is good gas millage, good reliability, and four doors (Sedan, Hatchback, or Wagon). I didn't think I needed to add "road safe" to that list but dealers in the Bay Area have proven me wrong.

    Any ideas for a car that would meet these meger needs that I could take home for 10K (or less)?

    Thanks again for all the help and suggestions. Like I said I terribly out of the loop.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,801
    You'd be better off shopping for private sellers in that price range... By the time a dealer adds $2K for gross profit, you are getting a $2500 car...

    MODERATOR
    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    1 - Private party.
    2 - GM or Ford, large car, roughly 7-10 years old.

    Basically something a conservative old person drove and took very good care of. A Buick Lesabre or Park Avenue that was never a rental is a good example. A Mercury Grand Marquis, while large, are cheap used and very easy to fix. Pontiac Grand Prix, Ford Taurus, and so on. Also, many Cadillacs like the DTS, which were only sold to old people, pretty much, ar good choices.

    Sorry, but anything imported or that others think are "fun" will be a huge amount more expensive to purchase and to repair.

    http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=307360655
    This is a typical example of the type of car you should be looking at. Asking 6K, really worth about 5K.

    The same type of vehicle in a Buick (Park Avenue or similar) is ~$1000 less.
    http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=306191067
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,241
    plekto, you're not answering the question that was asked. Their very first requirement is good gas mileage, something a DTS just plain doesn't have. And they said reliable, not cheap to fix. No one said anything about fun.

    placeboeffect, I would say the recommendations stay the same but move everything newer by 2-4 years, which also means your targets should also fewer miles/less wear. Examples:
    2004 Mazda 3i
    2005 Ford Focus
    2004 Elantra GT
    Those 3 are below $8K at dealers, have automatic transmissions, get good economy, and don't have too many miles. Private party prices on similar cars should be $800-1200 less.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 994
    I think one of the posters suggested looking further from the bay area, so that might be of use. San Francisco is very expensive. You also probably don't want a large car as parking in SF is horrendous, so many of the Buicks and Chevys will not be good for you. In addition to the suggestions above you might want to look for a Buick Century or a Pontiac Vibe although those can be hard to find. They are essentially a Toyota Matrix but they're used values are lower. Probably a Ford Focus might work for you, not as pricy as a Mazda3. If you can find an old Toyota Camry or Corolla through private party sale that would be great. You might have to get an older one but they have been extremely reliable. I just sold my daughter's '99; had 176000 miles on it and still running strong. It also had safety features that many cars from the era didn't have.
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,384
    That 98 Accord Q listed is just the ticket! Throw a timing belt in it (just assume they didn't unless they have a receipt) and you're ready to roll for loads of miles.
  • placeboeffectplaceboeffect Posts: 11
    edited October 2011
    I think I did not pose my new question correctly. While I would certainly like to pay less money and still get a good car, I would rather pay more and get a used car that is actually worth what I payed. That is, I don't really mind paying 10K for a car that is *worth* 10K but I do not want to spend 5K on a car worth 2K just in order to have something to move me about.

    From the searching I've done so far it seems that anything cheap in this area is going to be priced around 4-5K regardless of what it is actually worth. I guess because of the current financial situation people just don't have a lot of money to spend but they still need something and are therefore at the mercy of these places and their "5K deals". I'd much rather have the better car that is also the better value.

    What I'm seeing online (haven't called any of these places yet to see if they will go lower) in our new price range of 8-10K are:

    Chevrolet Aveo (2006 - 2010)
    Kia Spectra/Optima/Rio (2005-2009)
    Hyundai Sonata/Accent/Elantra (2005-2010)
    Toyota Yaris (2007)
    Mitsubishi Galant/Lancer (2006-2008)
    Nissan Versa (2007-2009)

    Do any of these seem appropriate for a 8-10K price tag? Or would I still need to agressively negotiate these cars to get a good value?

    We have left San Francisco to shop but we can't go to very far since we have to rent a car to do our car shopping. Not having a car also makes a dealer more attractive simply because we can look at several different cars/models in one place rather than drive all over the penisula looking at cars. We have to buy something relativly quickly because we will have to rent a car twice a week untill we make a purchase. I know this doesn't make for optimal bargain hunting but it is what it is.

    I really and truly appreciate all the help and suggestions. I would be totally lost without it. Thank you all again.
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,241
    Chevrolet Aveo (2006 - 2010) - I don't think you'll find too many Aveo fans here. Not necessarily a bad car just not all that great & not competitive to, say, Yaris & Accent.

    Kia Spectra/Optima/Rio (2005-2009) - I've had family & friends who've owned Optimas and never reported being dissatisfied. The Kia cars are semi-clones of their Hyundai counterparts. Kia sometimes isn't thought of very highly but I don't think that rep properly reflects their efforts in the 2000s.

    Hyundai Sonata/Accent/Elantra (2005-2010) - Considering my wife had an '01 Elantra and just this past week sold it & bought a '12 Elantra, I have to say I've a biased opinion. I think in general they're good cars. Elantra & Sonata have been popular enough that there's lots of feedback available in the forums about them.

    Toyota Yaris (2007) - Not one of Toyota's best efforts but isn't a bad vehicle.

    Mitsubishi Galant/Lancer (2006-2008) - Mitsu gets a bad rap sometimes but they're not bad cars. That perception about Mitsus can make them a good value used as they'll generally be less expensive than the competition. For your needs I'll say their fuel economy probably isn't as good as the competition. As my wife is a 2-time Hyundai buyer I'm a 2-time Mitsu buyer. I had a '99 Galant and sold it after over 10 years & 152K miles for a '10 Outlander GT. I'm very satisfied with the quality of the cars.

    Nissan Versa (2007-2009) - I think the Versa would be a good choice.

    In general, in the smaller cars you mentioned (Aveo/Rio/Yaris/Accent) you want to make sure you have enough space for whatever you'll be carrying & that the child seats fit. Try to get a feel for suspension during test drives as small cars can feel jittery or overly firm.

    Your best balance in space, comfort, and economy will be the compacts. Spectra/Elantra, Lancer, and Versa are probably your best bets among your list.

    Sonata/Optima/Galant are bigger. More space but less economy. Sonata is the best of the three, though given your years I'd shoot for a 2006+ as that marked a new & better generation of Sonata. Galant might be the cheapest of the 3 to buy, though, depending on your local market.

    Used car prices are seemingly so volatile lately that I don't want to say if the price range is appropriate. They seem to be, but I'm in Chicagoland & not SF and there will be regional differences.

    On the used midsize front you might also look at Fusion and Milan. Even the mid-2000s Malibu is a decent car; a friend had one and was satisfied until the car sacrificed itself to protect him in an accident.

    Regardless of who your buying from - dealer or private seller - there should be a little room to negotiate. How aggressively you choose to negotiate is up to you. I would think that you could offer $1K-1200 under an $8K asking price and find a middle ground you can live with. $7200-7600 would seem pretty fair to me.
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,384
    Personally, I'd lose the Aveo off that list, but that is more of a personal preference. A big chunk of the good news these is that while overall prices are up it's become darned near impossible to buy a truly bad car.

    I'd take any of the others on your list. Mitsubishis are greatly underrated. nothing wrong with them and they are a bit more fun to drive than your average bear.

    You'll be fine.
  • This is so amazingly helpful. Thank you so much.

    I'm leaning towards cars that have a negative bias but are actually really good cars. That way I don't have to spend money on "cool". So knowing that Mitsubishi and Kia fit in that catagory is really helpful.

    Thanks also for the heads up on small car suspension. For the past eleven years we haven't really driven anything except rental cars when we needed them so I have genuenly no idea what to expect. Plus, we need to buy a car in such a short time frame I need to balance a good decision with a quick decision.

    I'm sure I'll have more questions after I call/visit these places and test drive the cars. Thanks to everyone and keep the opions comming. :)
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    edited October 2011
    What I'm seeing online (haven't called any of these places yet to see if they will go lower) in our new price range of 8-10K are:

    Chevrolet Aveo (2006 - 2010)
    Kia Spectra/Optima/Rio (2005-2009)
    Hyundai Sonata/Accent/Elantra (2005-2010)
    Toyota Yaris (2007)
    Mitsubishi Galant/Lancer (2006-2008)
    Nissan Versa (2007-2009)


    Most (but not all) of these vehicles are cheap entry-level cars and lack safety features and more importantly, MASS that you would need in a crash. Everyone talks about parking, but I never had a problem at all in San Fransisco with a normal sized sedan.

    You really need to settle for something that gets a solid 25mpg or so and is cheap to buy and keep running. Anything imported, though, will cost you a lot extra. ion the long run as it ages.

    I still keep coming back to the GM 3.8L/4 speed automatic combination is it's as bulletproof as it got for those years. Especially since the hills there are hard on transmissions. You want cheap and solid, and the cheapest and most durable transmission is built by GM. As it should be since they make 99% automatics for the last ~40 years. (most manuals that they do offer are not actually made by them, btw) You also want a car with enough power to get UP those hills. Than means a V6 engine unless you like manuals.

    GM transmission: $1500 to fix.
    Toyota transmission: $3500 to fix.
    That buys a lot of gas. No joke - considering that you are buying used, the transmission potentially being replaced has to be factored into it. And currently, these old GM 4 speed transmissions are the least expensive to replace aside from the ones used in Ford's Crown Victoria/etc.

    That said, You want a car with a 3800 series III engine if you are looking at GM. Ignore *all* other engine types as this was the best they made.

    (from wikipedia)
    This engine was used in the following vehicles:

    * 2004–2008 Pontiac Grand Prix - 20/30 mpg (original sticker, easy to exceed with cruise on) 25mpg combined. Basically a cheaper alternative to a Camry.

    * 2005–2009 Buick LaCrosse - 20/29 mpg (again, original EPA sticker) - nicer car by far.

    * 2006–2008 Buick Lucerne - 19/28 mpg.

    BTW, my record for a 3800 engine was 38mpg using hypermilling techniques. 30mpg on the highway is very easy to do, even with 4 people in the car. I routinely would get 400 miles out of a tank of gas going from Santa Rosa to San Fransisco and back. Just keep the tires properly inflated and have a light foot. Use cruise control all the time and remember that even 150-200 ft behind a big rig cuts your fuel usage down by 15-20%. Oh, and wax it every 2-3 weeks. That's 1 mpg right there.

    Drive a Grand Prix. It's actually a pretty decent vehicle despite the looks.

    It's also easier to drive on steep hills as it has a console mounted in-line shifter. (1,2,3,4 all in a straight line). This makes selecting 1st for a steep hill as easy as a manual. But without the clutch to burn out. Most automatics these days only let you select 2nd, which means on steep hills, that it will be constantly going back and forth between the two gears. And it's dead-simple to use as a makeshift sequential manual, like the old Hurst automatics from the 70s were.

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/2626788243.html
    Something like this is very good. That's $5K saved compared to those smaller imports, and at ~$200 a year more in gas, that difference would take you 20+ years to make up.

    Lastly, insurance is cheaper on the GM car. It's absolutely theft-proof as well, as the parts are not worth anything to a professional auto thief.
  • This is also really useful information and something we really do need to consider. How do you determine the safety information? The only place I've seen that info is here on Edmunds but I'm sure it can be found elsewhere. Thank you too for the advice on the engine. That is something I would never know unless someone specifically pointed it out.

    Although San Francisco does have some notorious hills, they will not be something we will be encountering very often. We are basically going to be going 5 miles to pre-school twice a week on the highway and to the grocery store once a week. I would *love* to find a manual but it seems really hard to find a used car with one. Manuals have always seemed like better cars to me in general and it's my understanding that they are cheaper to fix but I don't know if that's true.

    Thanks for the help and suggestions. Any and all advice is appreciated.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    edited October 2011
    Just keep in mind that with that type of driving you're going to get city mpg or less on whatever you buy. Of course you're talking about only putting at most 2,000 miles on the vehicle a year. Your annual fuel costs would be:

    Avg 10mpg = $780
    Avg 20mpg = $390
    Avg 30mpg = $260

    In this case you could drive a Hummer and not save much over a typical car (20mpg). It's not going to matter if it's a 4cyl or 6cyl in a typical sedan, you're probably going to get 15-20mpg because the first five miles will be a cold engine that drinks the fuel regardless (unless you buy a hybrid).

    So if that's honestly all the driving you're going to be doing, I would throw mpg out the window and buy something safe (agree bigger is better in most cases) and comfortable to drive. How do you feel about minivans? A 2004 Sienna can be had for sub $10k and will hold its value and should be quite reliable if you stick to base models without all the electronic goodies. You get a TON of safety there and economy won't be any worse than a sedan with your type of driving. Granted as Pleko mentioned these will be more expensive than a basic GM to fix but realistically if it's been cared for it will go 200k miles easily without problems, the same as most any vehicle these days.

    On the sedan side you should be able to find nice 2004-2006 Accords, Camrys, Impala. I personally would go Impala over a Grand Prix because the latter is uncomfortable. The bad part about the Impala and Camry is they likely started life as a rental car which I wouldn't recommend. Accords are pretty much never sold into rental fleets so that gives it the upper hand in my book. And if something changes and you don't need a car they're easy to dump and not lose much money. Outside of the V6 models the accords are pretty much bullet-proof in that age range and I think for what you get they're an excellent value.
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,241
    For safety ratings there are two US organizations: IIHS - http://www.iihs.org/ratings/default.aspx and the federal government - http://www.safercar.gov/ Both do crash tests, with IIHS doing from the insurance industry's perspective; i.e. your insurance ratings may in part depend on a vehicle's IIHS rating.

    Be advised, though, that not every vehicle is tested. With mass-market autos, they'll generally be tested every time it matters. Which means that when an "all new" car comes out it'll be tested. The year after probably won't be unless changes that the automaker thinks would (positively) impact the ratings are made. For instance, a car gets a 3 star gov't rating so for the next model year they revise the seats or airbag deployment speed; the automaker would probably want to re-test to see if they can move from 3 to 4 stars.

    So if you look up a 2007 car and don't find result, try 2006, 2005, etc. until you find it.

    There's a European agency that tests cars for European consumption, which will generally include a good number of cars that are also available in the US. But discount their results as cars built for the Euro market can have different safety equipment as consumer laws are different.

    For engine feedback or other questions about handling, comfort, etc., look to forums at Edmunds and, possibly, forums specific to the brand/model you're looking at. If wondering about the engine in, say, the Sonata, just post a question in the appropriate Sonata thread. Ask about repair costs, maintenance requirements that may be outside the norm, and what problems the engine family has had.

    Modern automatics are pretty reliable. I don't think I'd base a buying decision on reliability; rather base it on availability or what you actually want (unless you spot an inordinate number of posts that would indicate a unit is problematic). Also, of late the economy advantage previously held by manuals has all but disappeared. They are sometimes an MPG better but sometimes the ATs are better.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Manuals are better than automatics, because a clutch is $200 plus labor. But if you aren't good at driving one, you'll toast them every year in the Bay Area.

    As for safety, the real list to look at is here:
    This is insurance claims and is weighted to consider all vehicles on the road. So smaller cars are worse off than SUVs, as you'd expect. This is far more realistic than just smashing stuff into a car or vice-versa.

    http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/composite_cls.aspx?y=2004-2006
    A good example is to compare the larger Buicks and Toyotas to the smaller cars. The best compromise might be a manual SUV with a 4 cylinder engine. But these are hard to find.
  • I ride a motorcycle to work on most days. It recently dawned on me that I don't really need a car -- other than when it rains or is too cold, or when I need to carry something heavy.

    I envision this car sitting in my garage most days. But, when duty calls, it needs to be ready to go.

    Here are my requirements:

    -Budget of $5000
    -Relatively low maintenance.
    -Cheap to insure (less than $100/mo)
    -Something 'unique' and different. Since I'm not worried too much about gas mileage, I thought I might as well have fun with it. I DONT want a sedan

    Ideas I've had
    -Jeep Wrangler, Suzuki Samurai
    -Ford Ranger
    -Older sports car (camaro, corvette, etc)
    -Ford T-Bird
    -Chrysler Conquest

    As you can see, my ideas for a car are all over the place. I'm basically browsing Craigslist and seeing what $5k can buy.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,520
    To be perfectly honest, if you see more value in a $10k Aveo, Rio, Accent, or Yaris than a $5k Accord, there isn't much I can do to help you with your decision.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,897
    Your list is a bit confusing. Ford T-Bird? That is one honkin' HUGE sedan, yet you don't want a sedan.

    Older sports car = not likely low maintenance, not likely low insurance

    Wrangler - hold their value well, so for $5K you're looking at one that is WAY miled up and/or in bad condition.

    The more "unique" or different the vehicle, the harder it is going to be to find parts and, potentially, service.

    So far, I'd say the Ranger is your best bet.

    MODERATOR
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  • Fair enough. The list is confusing because I'm not sure what I want yet :)

    So I guess I should take back what I said about no sedans.

    How about -- given the budget of $5k, what would you buy, for each of these:

    -Truck
    -Sedan
    -SUV/Jeep
  • I'm sorry, I'm a little confused by your response. I know absoultly nothing about cars haveing not paid any attention to them whatsoever for 11 years.

    All I was saying was that the particular 5K cars that we looked at (not just Accords but *anything* we looked at in the 5K rage) were in really rough shape (hail damage, needing a new clutch, rusted through exterior, or missing interior for example). That does not seem like something I want to pay five thousand dollars for. When I searched through avalible cars at the higher price range (which was 8-10K) these were the some of the cars that were coming up that also seemed to be in acceptable condition. I think these particualr cars were more towards the 8K area.

    I was *asking* if any of these would be a good value, not stating that they were. I am in absolutly no possition to judge. You seem to be suggesting that a rusted out Accord for 5K is still a better value than a good condition Aveo, Rio, Accent, or Yaris for 8K. Prehaps that is the case. I don't know. That's why I asked the question.

    I have not seen any of these cars in person. We have to rent a car to go car shopping. My husband has to take off work and we have to drag our three year old with us. I'm trying to get as much information as I can before we go to test drive cars. I need to have a few types of cars to look at so that I don't get overwhelmed by choices. Thanks to other responses I have received on this forum I have already removed the cars that you addresss out of consideration. If you have any useful sugestions or recomendation I would welcome them. However, please don't belittle me for my lack of knowledge. That is what I am trying to rectify and in a very short time frame.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I have the perfect car for you. It's the least expensive to run and maintain Toyota made in the last 10 years as well, based upon parts cost and labor/complexity.

    Look at a last generation Toyota Celica with a manual transmission. It's "different", handles great (fast, too) , is cheap as dirt to run, gets good fuel economy, and is perfect for getting around on rainy days and so on since you are only carrying 1-2 people at most. Toyota was *so* stupid to replace it with the much worse in every category Scion TC. Heavier, worse steering feel, worse suspension, worse fuel economy... sigh. (minor rant mode off)

    http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=306873461
    A typical example. Not your typical jellybean-mobile.

    The other option would be an old truck. Anything with manual and 4 cylinders. A mid 90s Tacoma 4X4 is a perfect example (4 cylinder, short bed, standard cab). Depreciation on it should be nearly non-existent as well, due to the demand with the off-roading crowd for these.

    http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=306880573
    This is a typical example. Very little to go wrong.

    Why manual? better performance out of a smaller engine, more fun to drive, potentially ~2K less to fix if the transmission dies (ouch?), can be manually started if the starter dies, can be shifted without a clutch in a pinch (good enough at least to get you to the shop) and many other reasons. If cheap and functional is a key requirement, manuals are your best bet. Doubly so with 4WD, since automatics tend to go brain-dead in mud, snow, and in dirt/rocks.

    Note - my last truck that I had (4Runner, same exact platform/chassis) had nearly 400K on it when I sold it. The original transmission lasted roughly 320K. A heavy duty replacement was ~$1200. Dropped the old one and put in the new one. (all new internals, had to break it in as if it was factory fresh). The truck is still running around in N. Cal last I heard.

    I'd personally buy one of these with 150K on it without a second thought.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,520
    Did you get to go see any of the cars I posted by any chance? I'm not sure what it is you have gone to see at this point. You SHOULD be able to find a nice reliable car for under $5k.

    If you raise your pricepoint, that's fine, too, of course, but I wouldn't scrape the bottom of the barrel and look at these entry level econoboxes. They are the cheapest cars new for a reason (cheaply built). Step up just a tad, at least. Rather than the Versa, look at the Sentra. Rather than a Yaris, a Corolla. Etc.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,901
    Have you considered using Zipcar instead of buying a car? If that is all you really plan to do, then Zipcar may work and be less expensive than owning a car.
  • hello all, I inherited a 03 bmw 325 from my family. It's a good car but I got it with a little over 100k miles on it which is a little much for me to make a long term commitment, even though I know bmws are usually very reliable.

    I'd like to take advantage of it's value while I can and so possibly trade it in for a similar type of car with less miles on it, one choice I found was a 99 mercedes kompressor with only 33000 miles on it, 99 is a little older than I would want to go but that mileage number really stood out to me; that's like a new car to me pratcically, another choice is a 2001 330 bmw with about 66000 miles on it; this also has the bigger engine that I like

    both of these cars are under 10,000 so I should be able to make a pretty clean trade with maybe a thousand or two thousand more spent on my part, this might appear to be a little strange to spend more money for an older car so I wanted to get opinoins on it, I've always thought mileage was the dominant factor in car life so this would make sense to me, however I'm a little jaded because i had an 86 mercedes that just recently really started to fall apart on me; it still had under 150,000 miles on it so I would have expected it to last longer but I have a feeling it is not going to last much longer (the engine is still as smooth as ever but I think I can feel the transmission start to slip and it's broken down on two other issues which needed replacements recently)

    my main issue is I just want a car that will last another good 10 yrs for sure, hopefully more; I only drive about 7-8 k a yr anyway so the car I have right now might have a shot, I'd also like opinions on the selections, thanks
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,520
    well, my completely personal and biased opinion would be to get the 330 if it truly is a straight trade (which I doubt). I'm not sure I'd throw any money into the mix if it were me. Unless you could sell your Benz for $2k and use that and the 03 bmw to get the deal done.

    Without knowing all of the specifics of every car, I can't help with the numbers, but you didn't ask about that, so I assume you've got that all under control.

    There is nothing wrong with a slightly older car with lower miles. Just as long as its "slightly." As your '86 Benz shows you, there is a limit to how old of a car you should be relying on for your daily transportation.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • robbiegrobbieg Posts: 327
    If I was in your position I would stick with the 325i assuming it has been maintained. Better than the unknown that comes with buying a used car.
  • sebring95sebring95 Posts: 3,233
    Agree with Rob. Making any of your choices last 10 more years could be a difficult proposition regardless of miles. Knowing what you've got to work with is a huge advantage.
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,689
    Ditto!!

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

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