Buying a Used 3-Series

romboggie · February 2009

Thanks. I think you are right. There does not seem to be any advantages in going with the lease.

jeremy_nyc · February 2009

Hi, I just want to share my experience of buying a CPO with you all and hope that some of you may be able to help me out.

I went to the cealership to look at a cpo 2006 330xi at the end of last year to take advantage of the 0.9 financing. The salesman keep on pushing and I went for it, thinking that I like it anyway. First sign of trouble that I should have picked up is. He told me that it is certified already, but when we do the paper work, he told me that it has not been, so I have to write a post-dated check so he has time to get the car in the system or BMW will fine them something like $500. I agreed and wait. I did not look at the car closely for it is dirty and not clean. He assured me that once it is certified, all ding and dents would be fixed and drives like new in the commercial, stupid me.

After two weeks have passed, the car is still not ready. Eventually picked up the car in the third week. I asked for the paper work (the certified check list), they cannot produce it. I waited for 2 hours and I saw the mechnics scrambling around. At that point, I really suspect that they did not do the certification. I looked at the car, there are dents that are not fixed and it drives sluggish and not smooth.

I called the general manager of the dealership and complained, and they agreed to do another 140 points check and fix the dents in the bumper. another week passed by, I sent someone to pick up my car and specifically asked the person to check the bumper and asked for the certified papers. Once again, they cannot produce the paperwork at the spot and scrambled around for hours. the dents are still not fixed. The person which I sent picking up the car cannot see because the car was not washed and he missed some spots.

At this point I am fed up with the car. I recently took the car to another dealership just for checking it out because I really hate the way it drives. it is loud, bumpy and sluggish. the found a bunch of problems and it is still in the shop waiting for the verdict.

This is basically the story without going in all the details. I truely regretted buying a used car at this point believing that there is some kind of a standard behind a name brand. Anybody knows anything I can do to file a complain or suggestions?

Any suggestions are much appreciated.

hemanthh · February 2009

I bought a 2006 330xi CPO end of last year too. During the negotiation, there were a few points which wrangle me still, but overall I think I got a good deal. The car looks great and runs great. I hate the alarm signs every time I hot a pot hole and the tire loses some air, but cant say if the car is good say, until at least come summer.

Now, I have received a CPO guide in the mail, and a survey email from the dealer to see if I was satisfied with the purchase. At the bottom of the survey, there is an option to request that you be contacted by the dealer, and/or by BMW North America. So, if you have given up on making peace with the dealer, contact BMW NA. They are funding this purchase anyways and should resolve this.

And I strongly believe in retribution against cheats. Spread the name of the dealer on these and other boards. DO NOT let them get away with this.

Good luck!

Mr_Shiftright · February 2009

Well it's just one man's opinion. Others here might have another angle on this that I'm missing...

jeremy_nyc · February 2009

thanks hemanthh

I don't plan to let them get away, but I have been dealing with this car for more than a month now, getting kind of tired.

Am waiting for the results from the other dealership looking at the car. So far there are problems with the engine and transmission. They told me they are minor problems, but shouldn't these be fixed at the whatever 140 points inspection?

When you purchase yours, did you get the check list? I am sure that mine was done at the spot when I asked because I had to wait for 2 hours watching them running around to get signatures.

I have not received any calls nor survey from BMW North America.

I plan to write to the CEO of BMW USA and cc the general manger of the dealership, including all the paper work, will see how that goes.

Am I allowed to disclose the dealership name and the "used car" salesman, would love to be able to do it here.

romboggie · February 2009

I would definetly post that crooks name. I bought a used 2006 330xi about three weeks ago and got a detrailed checklist immediately. I assume the check should be done before they advertise that the car is certified. If you do not mind me asking, how many miles are on the car and how much did you pay for it? On another note I test drove another car that I was considering and it was terrible. I asked myself how they could sell that car and call it certified? They may not be doing a detailed check at the dealerships.

jeremy_nyc · February 2009

the car has around 36500 miles on it and paid $25,000. Am not sure if this a good deal.

We test drove the car before it was "certified," and I was not impressed by it. However, I was assured that it will be good after being certifed, just some tune up and stuff, stupid me. My plan was to use it as a daily commuting car to work, well, it has been in the shop for a month so far.

I seriously was thinking that the pre-owns have some kind of a standard, apparently I was wrong.

Now the car is in another dealership and they are checking it out, will find out next Monday

jeremy_nyc · February 2009

BTW, from what the "used car" salesman told me, they cannot sell you the car as certified before they actually do it, that's why I have to write a post-dated check to the dealership. If BMW finds out, the dealership will be fined.

I guess some dealerships don't even bother to follow the 140 check points thinking that most people wont even know the difference and wont ask for the check list.

pat · February 2009

Wow, I'm sorry for what you've been through.

If you haven't already, please consider posting this also in our Dealer Ratings & Reviews. That's another way to let others know what's happening here.

romboggie · February 2009

That price seems fair. I got mine for 24,900 and it had about 39,900 miles. I bought the car for the same reason, to commute daily to work. I am usually totally against buying used cars but I figured that a CPO was a good bet. I am very nervous about when the factory warranty runs out. That extra warranty only covers the powertrain and electric but not maintenance. You can always buy a maintenance plan but I do not know how expensive it is. How many miles a day do you commute to work?

roadburner · February 2009

BMW CPO cars are only as good as the dealer who sells them. I've bought two CPO cars from my local dealer(Swope BMW in Louisville, KY) and in each case they were delivered in excellent condition. And, like the BMW ads proclaim, in each case my friends thought I had bought a new BMW.

jeremy_nyc · February 2009

Roadburner, I think you are absolutely right. the car is as good as the dealer. However, I would have thought that BMW would some some kind of quality control. I would have never thought that they have the guts to skip the 140 points check and faking the documents.

the exterior of the car looks great, except a few ding and dents at the bumper which they promise to fix but did not. it is the mechanics of the car which I am worried about.

the car has been in the shop for more than a month now, which is making me very upset.

jeremy_nyc · February 2009

about 30 miles a day round trip.

I also have a benz which I bought brand new and now gave it to my wife, only 3 years old and drives beautifully, not a single problem so far, now I miss it.

I never thought about buying a second hand car but given the economy, I thought I should keep the cash in hand just in case. Now that I think about it, should have just bought a new one and avoid the headache, eh.......

I thought about the maintenance plan also, but they are quite expensive. I think you can negotiate down the price?

jeremy_nyc · February 2009

thank you, I certainly will when I find out next week what's wrong with the car

qbrozen · February 2009

Any suggestions are much appreciated.

I only have 2 suggestions, and neither can help you now, but hopefully in the future.

1. NEVER buy a car you aren't happy with after a test drive. I don't care what anyone tells you, you will NEVER be happy with it.

2. NEVER send someone else to pick up your car. Only you know what you want. Plus, a car deal is not a car deal until you take delivery. You could have walked away with no financial penalty at any time UP UNTIL you took delivery, which you allowed someone else to do for you.

ivan_99 · February 2009

I'm in the process of purchasing a new vehicle (current one totaled).

I'm torn between a 07 CPO 335i coupe (totally loaded) auto

...and an 06 IS350. Both one owners (purchased around the same time so they are the same age).

the 335i has 48k ish miles so the additional 2year 50kmi would kick in shortly. My main concern is the reliability and maintenance of the 335. We're expecting our 4th child in about a month or so...so this would be Dad's car (mini-van as 2nd vehicle). I'd hate to burden the family with huge costs for "my" indulgence.

I can't help think what the car has gone through the past 50k miles...especially with two turbos spinning...plus the car has all the options which are nice on a new car...but maybe a problem with a used one,

What are the 'regular' maintenance costs?
What are the upcoming maintenance items/costs? (is there a 60k service?)

It sure looks good and drives great

fedlawman · February 2009

I would strongly base my decision on how long you plan on keeping it.

The 335i is a sweet machine, but I don't trust that TT motor yet - too many potential issues, known and unknown.

If you were buying new and keeping it for 3-4 years, I'd say go for the Bimmer. But a used first year 335i - no way.

Get the Lexus (or an Infiniti G35).

hemanthh · February 2009

Jeremy,

I don't think I got the checklist. I have to go back and look. Definitley disclose the name of the dealer, AND the sales guy. Car buying is stressful as it is, you shouldn't have to deal with this after the sale..

And take your service to another dealership as well

lokki · February 2009

The mind says:

Go with the Lexus. I love my BMW's, but even if you have no unusual problems with the turbos, the maintenance is going to be expensive.... You're going to need both brakes and run-flats in 25k miles and remember that:
a. It's both pads AND rotors for the BMW
b. The run-flats are more expensive than go-flats.
It's also possible that you'll need shocks and struts around 75K as well.

I've owned 4 3-Series over the past 10 years and I've loved them all, but I confess that I'm somewhat reluctant to own one out of warranty. No problems on my 2008 so far, but my 2003 required 4 window regulators, 4 coils, and a windshield wiper fluid tank. All under warranty, of course, but after 50k miles, it cost one of my friends $500 for one window regulator.

In short, BMW's are expensive indulgences, and I don't think that you're going to be unhappy with the IS350...

The heart says:
On the other hand, life is short and love doesn't come often or cheap, so....

shipo · February 2009

"a. It's both pads AND rotors for the BMW
b. The run-flats are more expensive than go-flats.
It's also possible that you'll need shocks and struts around 75K as well."

A couple of counterpoints:

A: BMWs are some of the easiest cars I've ever worked on from a "brake job" perspective. It typically costs me about $120 per axle for Pads, Rotors and the sensor (should it be needed). Geez, the parts for our Dodge Grand Caravans aren't even that cheap.

B: I see absolutely no reason to use RFTs on a late model BMW. If the car is purchased, drive'em till they drop and replace them with GFTs. If the car is leased, drive SP tires for 10,000 and non-SP tires for 20,000 miles, replace them with GFTs, and then put the factory rubber back on just prior to lease end.

C: I cannot say that I've ever seen any evidence that suggests that struts on BMWs go any sooner than other similar cars, those from Lexus included.

Personally I wouldn't hesitate to own a BMW out of warranty. Will maintenance be more expensive than our minivans? Probably. Will said maintenance be as expensive as some folks seem to think? I kind of doubt it.

The heart says:
On the other hand, life is short and love doesn't come often or cheap, so....

I couldn't have said it better. :shades:

Best regards,
Shipo

roadburner · February 2009

C: I cannot say that I've ever seen any evidence that suggests that struts on BMWs go any sooner than other similar cars, those from Lexus included.

I've never replaced a strut on one of my Bimmers before they hit 100,000 miles.

joe05 · February 2009

I'm looking at purchasing a 98 to 03 BMW 3 Series sedan or Z3 as a second vehicle. What are the common issues of these vehicles that would want an owner to sell or try and dump on the market? I know maintenance thru a BMW dealer can get expensive, but a quick peruse thru CraigsList showed a number of mechanics willing to work on BMW's.

roadburner · February 2009

What are the common issues of these vehicles that would want an owner to sell or try and dump on the market?

The E36/E46 BMWs don't have all that many chronic problems. Water pumps fail at around 60K miles but they are not expensive or difficult to replace. Automatics can be problematic. Almost everything else is pretty simple and straightforward. If you don't know BMWs it is essential that you have a potential purchase inspected by a qualified BMW tech. Don't automatically rule out using a dealer; some offer quality work at very reasonable prices. You also should join the BMW Car Club of America.

fedlawman · February 2009

Hey Burner, you must keep that paragraph saved as a word document. You seem to use it every couple of weeks.

Don't forget to add control arm bushings, ball joints, rear shock mounts, subframes, radiators, power window regulators, and lifetime automatic transmissions. :surprise:

joe05 · February 2009

Thanks Roadburner. I've also liked the timeless classic lines of the BMW.I have a friend who is a Audi mechanic and he says that you have to be wealthy to afford the upkeep on Audi, not a real ringing endorsement. I my hope is that BMW does not fall into that category.

joe05 · February 2009

Don't forget to add control arm bushings, ball joints, rear shock mounts, subframes, radiators, power window regulators, and lifetime automatic transmissions.

Yikes! You would prefer a 5 speed tranny, or anything but a BMW?

fedlawman · February 2009

Manual tranny - absolutely.

All cars have their problem areas (yes, even the Japanese). BMW's aren't any worse than any other car. If you maintain it, it'll last forever.

roadburner · February 2009

Don't forget to add control arm bushings, ball joints, rear shock mounts, subframes, radiators, power window regulators, and lifetime automatic transmissions.

I tend to forget about those items as my 1995 3er hasn't required any of those items in over 114,000 miles. And der slushbox ist verboten in any of my daily drivers.

As for my 3er, I think it's going to end up serving as my primary track toy once more; the 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 is very close to being traded for a 2003 540i 6 speed. The 2003 540i SPs all have the European M Sport package with an even more aggressive sport suspension as well as a very sharp M Technic bodykit. I figure that at 52 I need at least one geezermobile in the garage... :P

Mr_Shiftright · February 2009

You're really pushing your luck on the radiator. :P

roadburner · February 2009

You're really pushing your luck on the radiator.

For some reason the fours don't go through radiators like the sixes and eights do. Go figure...

Mr_Shiftright · February 2009

Maybe I'm radiator shy, having had a BMW radiator blow up in my face (1996 3 series) and another fall apart in my hand as I wiggled the top hose.

I've give it the "tug test". If you can wiggle the top hose and the radiator doesnt' crack right then and there, it has more life in it. If it does crack, better you know now than on the road.

fedlawman · February 2009

"my 1995 3er hasn't required any of those items in over 114,000 miles."

I was going to make a wisecrack about your driving ability and manhood, but changed my mind at the last minute...

I need to save my wisecracks for people who really need them (you know who :P ).

roadburner · February 2009

I need to save my wisecracks for people who really need them (you know who ).

You and me both!

niteflite888 · February 2009

Hi. I'm looking to buy a 2006 325i with anywhere from 20 to 36k miles. Can anyone offer me advice on

1. buying cpo versus non-cpo
2. buying from bmw dealer versus non-bmw dealer
3. a very aggressive price...so let's just say a 2006 325i automatic with prem package with 36k miles on it, cpo.

of course during my visit to the dealer they said a cpo is definitely worth the premium you pay over a non-cpo. but i bet if i was in a non-cpo vehicle they would've said it wasn't a must.

gracias!

romboggie · February 2009

OK so I need help in determining if I am expecting to much out of the dealership that I bought my used 3 series from or If I was treated badly. Please see my history below:

I bought a CPO 2007 3 series coupe last week with about 22,500 miles on it.

When I went to see the car there were scratches on the car and I told the dealership to fix it. The told me that the car just came in and that there was someone waiting to buy the car so I better take it as is.

After fighting with my salesperson for 30 minutes they finally decided to touch up the car and make the scratches less visible. They said that they had no time to fix it and that I could come back and get it fixed.

I felt pressured to take the car so I bought it and told them that I will come back. I went back today and they said that they still did not have time and that I should come back next week.

I also noted that the back window was tinted. The detail guy informed me that all the windows were tinted and that he only removed the front windows. I can barely see out of the back window at night because the tint is so strong. I went back today to ask them to remove it just like they removed the front ones and the service guy told me that they had to wait until the weather was hot because the tints come off easier.

I also noticed that the front carpet was heavily stained. I asked them to clean it and they told me that they could not get the stain out and that they would have to think about ordering a new carpet. They came back and said that they would not be able to order me a new one.

When I went to pick up my permanent plates today they gave me a yellow slip that said I had to get the vehicle inspected in 7 days. I asked them why the vehicle was not inspected before they sold the vehicle and they told me that they were not obligated to.

This vehicle also has a squeaking sound when I step on the brake. It goes away after about 15 minutes of driving. The service guy told me today that it is normal to hear that sound and that I just need to break the car in.

I am very upset about this whole experience. I feel like I did not receive the best service possible. I am really upset about the tinted glass and they fact that I have to take a day off to get the car inspected. I did not notice it but I was riding around with the car for one week without having an inspection sticker. I could have received a ticket. I don't think that is right.

Does anyone know if the dealers are required to have the vehicle inspected before they sell it?

backy · February 2009

I think posting URLs to dealerships is against the membership rules??

Anyway, with a handle like that, you should WORK for this outfit. Or maybe... you already do!!!

jeremy_nyc · February 2009

Romboggie, sorry to hear about your experience. I dont know if they are required to inspect the car before selling, but one would assume so. I have never heard that the brakes will make squeaky sounds till the car breaks in. I just had my brakes replaced and I have no such problem. In fact, I heard the squeaky sound that's when I bought the car in and they found out that the brakes was worn below specifications.

I bought the car from a shady dealer (pls. see my previous post) and then I took the car to another one for a throughout inspection, only to find out that I have to have quite a bit of parts replaced.

Ask for the 140 points check list if you do not have it and see what they did to your car. I suspect a lot of dealers pass on the car without inspecting it and call them pre-certified. Get a second opinion and check on the brakes with another reliable dealership.

good luck

roadburner · February 2009

Check out post #384 and #388. I'll only add that you should never allow yourself to be pressured into buying a car. If the car you're looking at isn't right- or made right prior to delivery, another one will come along- unless you want something like a Mercedes SSK or Bugatti Royale...

ivan_99 · February 2009

Not to offend...but did you fall for the "I have another guy waiting to buy this"?

I do however understand getting caught up in the moment of a new vehicle (some of us have problems with this) so you're not alone...

My experience with my CPO's IS350 was the exact opposite of yours. I could not see any difference between my car and a new one. Not one ding or scratch, very well detailed, new floor mats...and yes it does have a new inspection sticker. I doubt it's required but it is a nice courtesy in a vehicle of this level.

I don't think you would have received a ticket...there is some grace period (not certain of the length of time)

Although, if I did have items for them to perform I would have insisted it be done before I took delivery.

I was very close to getting a CPO'd 335 and would have expected/insisted on the same service; the brief visit with the BMW dealership in my area lead me to believe that I would.

Manufacturers make money on CPO's...I'd let BMW know how the dealership has been treating you.

nyccarguy · May 2009

Page 122 of this month's Car and Driver (a shadow of my formely favorite car magazine) there is an article written by none other than Csaba Csere detailing some of the finer points of BMW's CPO program and his buying experience when he took delivery in January 2009 of a CPO 2007 335i sedan.

Here is someone who has driven every car on the planet for the past g-d knows how many years, I assume has the funds to purchase any car he wants within reason, and he uses his own money to buy a CPO 2007 BMW 335i with just over 23,400 miles on the odometer.

He said the original MSRP was somewhere around $49,000 and he picked up the car for $32,500 (others like blueguydotcom have reported even cheaper). He says short of a few stone chips, the car looks like new inside & out with not even a door ding.

pharm30 · May 2009

I am thinking about test driving a CPO 2007 335 coupe - 19K miles.
auto, leather, premium, sport, paddle shifters, nav. $39,750.

Not real familiar with BMW, coming from Infinitis, I thought I might try something new.
Opinions on price? not sure if this one qualifies for low APR (I thought I saw some used BMW could get 0.9% ?)

nyccarguy · May 2009

only MY 2006 CPO 3 series qualifies for .09 financing. The '07 should get you 3.9%.

Do yourself a favor & drive the car with a 6 speed manual transmission. Make sure you HAGGLE a lot off the asking price. I'd say start by lopping $5500 off the asking price and see if they go for it.

zayir · May 2009

Newbie here, starting to take a look at a pre-owned (or CPO) 3-series of model years 2006-2008. Budget is around 23K for the car, excluding taxes and others. Seeing a lot of 2006/330i CPO model in dealer lots that has around 40K miles. There is extended warranty of 60 yr/100K mile on these cars. Initial dealer quotes are around 27K (did not start to negotiate till now)

Questions:- 1. What would be a fair price for a 2006/330 with 40K miles, in Bay Area ?.
2. Any advice on whether or not to go for it ? (my other option is most likely a 2007- 328)
3. There is a 2007 -328 ex-loaner car for about 25K. Need inputs on if its okay to buy an ex-loaner.

Thnx

carnaught · May 2009

In considering a used BMW, you should: 1) see the service record and 2) buy an extended warranty. As has been pointed out repeatedly, German cars are very expensive to fix and maintain.

zayir · May 2009

Thanks carnaught !

I am looking only at CPOs; so, extended warranty should come standard (6yr/100K miles)

Is there anything specific to be looked upon in the service history ?

Thanks

crortega9 · May 2009

Hi, I have the chance to purchase a fully loaded 2008 335xi coupe with about 20,000 miles for $36,000. Is this a good price? The car is in immaculate condition. Thanks!

zayir · May 2009

Looking at 2006 330i with 32K miles on it. The car has extended warranty + maintenance till 6 yr/100K. What is a good price for this car in Northern CA ?. :confuse:

vlm · June 2009

I'm looking at a 2001 325i wagon with 147,000 miles on it.

I will drive it as my principal car for the next 18 months at which point my insurance will revert to normal.

I would want to keep it on after that as a utility, haul bike, around town, farmers mkt type of car.

Do 3-series make it this long?

It is being offered for $7600.

Thanks.

Mr_Shiftright · June 2009

Yeah, sure, a well cared for BMW can do that distance and more---but I wouldn't pay $7600 for a miled-up car. More like $6000 should be plenty.

You can figure, statistically, that a modern car can do 175K-225K before major catastophe sets in---but a car like the one you're thinking of buying has to have had good care.

It makes no sense to buy a miled-up car that hasn't had much maintenance, with everything deferred for YOU to take care of. If it hasn't had suspension work, or cooling system work, you're going to be paying for that soon enough I think.

Get it checked out thoroughly at an indy shop and then use the report to negotiate a better price.

vlm · June 2009

Mr. Shiftright-

Thanks for the response. According to Kelly Blue book, the retail is $9110 and the private-party is $7110. It has sport and premium, multi-cd, roof rack, and leather.

Thanks for the tip on suspension, etc.

I will take it to a mechanic for pre-purchase for sure.

Buying a Used 3-Series

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