Best Car for a new teenage driver

imidazol97 · November 2009

Buying a full-sized car with some years that has airbags and ABS would be my suggestion for a first car. But you have the Corolla so that is what I would go with.

I would lay down the law about cell phones and loud radio and visitors in the car. Our state has laws on how many nonrelated youngsters can be in the car with an under 18 driver and I think it's 1. I believe I have that right. Keep the distractions down. They don't answer the cell phone. They pull over and when stopped check the cell phone or place a call. They drive with the radio off or softly rather than the hit tune of the day that involves them mentally in the song rather than the driving.

Check with insurance company to see if they have a special training video or package for new drivers. Check for good grades discount with insurance company. Remind the kids that one ticket or accident and the reduced insurance rate goes out the window. That rate is lower on an older full-sized car and is another reason for a large older car unless someone has a gift of a car looking them in the face.

Our new car the son was driving to school after a year and half of safe driving got brushed by a person parking next to him. He noticed who had parked next to him so when I saw the brush scrapes when I came home, we knew which parents to call (they're in the same after school activity, otherwise we would have checking with the parking lot security person for the owner of the car). So have the boys learn to look at the car when parked and notice who's next to them. BTW the 98 leSabre Junior had been driving to school all last year got several nicks and door dings from kids parking next to him and their passengers or the driver throwing the doors open without regard for the car next to him. Other kids in our lot have relatively new BMWs and Mercedes. I wonder what kind of parking lot damage they have gotten.

exb0 · November 2009

Thanks everyone for the response. The general consensus is that take the Corolla. As some people say: Dont look a gift horse in the mouth.

It might not be the safest car out there, but at least it slow. They would be too embarrassed to race in it. The idea of both of them sitting in the car and showing off in front of their friends is just scaring the chit out of me.

Funny, somebody mentioned the radio and speakers. The first thing one said when they sat in the Corolla was where is the IPod input? The other said can we see how loud the radio gets. The car has 6-disk CD changer, but they keep on telling me that nobody uses CDs anymore. Maybe I should show them what a tape deck looks like in my car. Another thing they are complaining about and I quote: Why does it have carpet on the seats? They havent set in a car without leather seats in over ten years. Wow, in the current economy, they are in for a rude awaking when they get out on their own.

Yes, definitely Corolla. Theyre too spoiled as is.

imidazol97 · November 2009

>They would be too embarrassed to race in it.

I can picture some teenagers who would race anything...

My son at 16 got the lecture about how the car is not a rolling entertainment center. That's asking for trouble due to distraction. He won't talk on cell phone and drive.

The insurance lady also gave him a lecture when signing him up. She says most kids have an accident in the first 6 months. Insurance rates jump. Sometimes juvenile court takes away temporary (under 18) license until they reach 18.

I mentioned the young lady who brushed our car with the front bumper of her Explorer. Daddy and Mommy took away her driving privileges from what I can tell. They felt she knew she was too close to the car and should have felt it rub. She was making a wide turn half circle from the parking entrance to get into the space. No dents because it pushed and dug a little on the plastic bumper which comes around the side and rubbed down to metal on edge of wheel well. So it was $800 for their insurance. The parents came down hard. Father had hoped to avoid turning it in to the insurance. But he did say he was looking for a "tank" to buy for her to drive, suggesting she may have another accident before she learns.

I still believe we lucked out in having the 98 leSabre as our older car for a new driver. Heavy, easy to drive. Air bags. ABS. If a dent happened didn't have to report it if there was no other property damage; just let him drive with the big dent showing. It helps lower the pride.

If I were starting over at 15 1/2 today and didn't have the large old leSabre (170,000 mi), I'd pick one up for $2000-3000 with fairly high miles but that was driveable. Then replace it after 9 months with something a little more recent and more life left in it.

explorerx4 · November 2009

it's important that you convey the fact that a corolla is small nd caution needs to maintained at all times around other vehicles.
i drove a focus for about 4 years, but i feel better about driving a fusion.
camry drivers don't decide to cut me off because i am driving something smaller than their car.

carstryke · November 2009

"Yes, definitely Corolla. Theyre too spoiled as is."

/agree

obyone · November 2009

At least the Corolla isn't on Toyota's recall list for those accident causing mats.

hammerhead · November 2009

Corolla for sure.

Find a parking lot or very quiet road and teach them how to control the car without the benefit of ABS, traction control, stability control, etc.

That's the true 'driver's education' - knowing the car's limitations and nuances, instead of just mashing the gas or brake pedal & letting the gadgets do their thing.

My Dad took me to the local high school parking lot on Sunday afternoons & allowed me to merely 'get the feel' of driving his car... how much gas pedal = how much acceleration, how much brake you need, how much steering input changes the direction how much, etc... before I ever started Driver's Ed. Made a huge difference, and this was in the early 70's - before all the gadgets

Cheers!
Paul

specialthings · November 2009

2 girls 4 accidents 18 months. My 12 year old Chevy Luminia, 140K miles standard equipment with snow tires all around. All accidents at 10 MPH (or so they say). 2 they hit, 2 they got hit. No injuries.

#1 daughter #1 accident she slid on ice into back of snowplow. Crushed her hood, I banged back down with sledge, looked like hell and still drive-able. She paid town $600 for paint damage. #3 accident young guy hit her making a left turn from far right lane crossing in front of her going straight ahead. His insurance paid $3200 for crushed front right fender, bumber and crushed HOOD. Banged that hood back down again, wired bumper on and pulled fender out so tire no rub. Boy was she upset we did not get the dentmobile fixed with the little bit on money we got. But she an her sister continued to drive it because it was that or nothing until accident #4

#2 daughter #2 accident hydroplaned at 10 MPH (yea I did not believe that either) into rear of Delivery truck, paint damage on it. Had tio do insurance $800 to the delivery truck owner. Crushed the damm hood again. Banged it back in place again. #4 accident cutting through a parking area during a snow storm she says a little old lady turning on access road pushed her into curb....yea right with enough speed to hit the curb and wreak the whole under carriage and crack the wheel. Est cost to get going again $1500.

To the junk yard it went. I came out with $300, the almost new snow tires, and battery I had just put into it, and oh yea and I still had the $3200 from accident #3. A total of $3500 to start tank shopping with. Got the message out and found it a 2000 Chevy Impala low milage from dead guys family $5000.....

But mom its so ugly....can I have it first I want to go........

You think they are catching on yet??

imidazol97 · November 2009

>You think they are catching on yet??

I don't know if they caught on, but you as a parent certainly have it down! Good work.

kyfdx · November 2009

Don't rely on this.... the car will do 100 mph... Almost any car will go that fast..

You'll never be able to get your kid a car that won't go too fast for the road conditions..

Education and strict discipline are your friends.... no matter what car you choose..

My story: My son turns 16 in January... My uncle is giving him his '92 Acura Legend with 36K miles... Very sweet car... too nice and fast for my son.... but, free...

oldfarmer50 · November 2009

"...Remove the radio speakers..."

LOL You are sooooooo cruel. And sooooooo right!

Maybe remove the back seat too, so they can't cart their buddies around.

plekto · November 2009

The best car for a new driver should be tough, slow, inexpensive to fix, be able to haul stuff, and have a manual transmission.

This used to be a no-brainer with cars like the Volvo 240 and similar. They want a wagon or SUV or something like that because they or their friends always will be wanting to haul or move or tow stuff.

Why a manual transmission?
1 - less cost
2 - requires both hands and attention to the vehicle.
3 - Good skill to learn anyways
4 - can push/roll-start it in a pinch.

A replacement Toyota automatic transmission runs over $3000 currently. A replacement clutch is $250 plus 2-3 hours labor. Also, the kids can't eat or text or whatever else they do besides driving if they need both hands and both feet to be engaged in doing something.

My recommendation, then, would be to get something like an old Tacoma or similar. With the 4 cylinder engine, they are economical, get good MPG, and have all of the advantages you'd typically want in a SUV.

My exact pick would be a short bed standard cab(no rear seat) 4WD model with manual transmission. Just enough room for one passenger and some cargo. Slightly raised so it's on the same level as a SUV. Just a tough and indestructible little thing that is for driving and not hauling everyone around to a party with the automatic while texting and not paying attention. I can't tell you how many big SUVs I see with kids doing this in Los Angeles... At least one every other day...

Oh, and they can also use it to haul their stuff to college or tow a trailer.

Note - don't be scared off by high mileage commuter models. My similar old SUV(original 4Runner - basically a Tacoma with a shell and rear seats added) has nearly 400K miles on it and still is a fine daily driver. 120-200K miles is fine as long as it's less than ten years old.

qbrozen · November 2009

I'm not reading too carefully, so not sure if anybody suggested this yet.

I would sell the Corolla, give half to the sister, and take the balance to buy something else.

Not that I have anything against the Corolla. I just think its too new and nice to suffer as a teenager's first car. :surprise:

You will be paying $4k-$5k out of your pocket for a $10k car that, odds are, will be wrecked/damaged in some way. So I would sell, take the $5k you wind up with and buy a car for that much. That way, you spent nothing and won't want to kill your kid when they wreck it. :P

uga91 · November 2009

I'm actually in a similar situation. A cousin of mine bought a new Civic EX sedan in 1993 and drove it 44,212 miles in 16 years. My daughter starts driving in a couple of years. I bought it for $1000 and my daughter will learn to drive on it. I'll drive it a couple times a week for the next couple of years keeping it in good working order; but, it's got the miles of a 4 year old car and it carries the insurance rates and tag fees of a 16 year old car.

This car is in great shape. Probably never driven over 70 MPH...if that fast. Back seat looks showroom fresh. All maintenance performed at the dealer she bought it from. It's got 4 wheel anti-lock disc brakes and a sunroof. I figured it was too good to pass up as a car for a first-time driver.

Good luck to you.

carstryke · November 2009

this made me lol, darn woman drivers

explorerx4 · November 2009

to monitor your kid(s) with their cell phones.
sends you a message if the phone leaves a predetermined area.
i am looking at a ford taurus brochure.
it has something called 'my key'.
basically it lets you set some functional parameters in the vehicle.
among them, traction control cannot be disabled, mutes radio unless seatbelt is in use, limits top speed of vehicle and alerts driver at 45, 55, 65 mph, turns on low fuel warning at 75 miles instead of default of 50.

tankbeans · November 2009

A few things, I'm 21 and I've had my license since I turned 16 after paying for my own driver's ED. I pay my own insurance and have never been in an accident, not counting a hit and run in a parking lot, which my car was the victim while I was shopping. My first car had 180,000 ABS, that didn't work 4wd that worked when it felt like it and a high center of gravity. I had to learn to control it and am a safer driver for it. A 16 year doesn't need a new car and definitely doesn't need all the goodies.

I currently drive an 03 Accord LX with ABS and front airbags only, no stability or traction control, and I drive in MN during the winter when the roads can get pretty slippery and I'm still alive and the car is in one piece. I drive slow during the winter because I hate having the ABS go off (not the incentive they had in mind when designing the car, but it works) and I don't care to be the next statistic.

Bottom line, if your kids are responsible and you trust them to make the right decisions you can get them a cheap relatively slow car without all the gimmicks. Also, I wouldn't let them pick what they get either since they'll go for looks over substance, while you being older and more experienced will pick substance over looks I would guess.

As an aside, and this is just my opinion, but I wouldn't buy a 16 year old a new car, it just sends the wrong signal. That's my opinion.

This is just the perspective of a freshly out of my teenage years person.

exb0 · November 2009

Had the car appraised today. Apparently the car was in a serious accident, at least according to the CarMax appraiser, even though my mom said it was minor. The CarMax guy said that both right doors are not original, and there was some frame damage. They offered $6500 for it. The accident is listed in the Carfax.

However the Toyota store offered $9300. Thats a lot of money for a four year old compact, even with 12K on the clock. Yes, I did disclose the accident.

exb0 · November 2009

Edit:
Just found the repair estimate, not sure what all of this means:

Repl Qual Repl Parts CAPA RT Fender
Repl RT Fender liner Front door
Repl Qual Recy Parts RT door assy +25% $625
Repl Qual Recy Parts RT door assy +25% $468.75 (yes, it is listed twice)
Alng floor set up for minor pull -- 1 hour
Alng pull rh qtr rough -- 1.5 h F
Rpr weld tab for pull -- 0.5 h
Ppr RT quarter panel. Overlap Makor Adj. Panel -- 5 h

Can anyone interpret this? Does this sound like a big deal? Total repair bill is $4K. Alignment seems to be fine.

Police report states:
"Veh1 (the other driver) was backing out of a parking space. Veh 2 (my mother) was driving past V3h1 as it backed up. Veh 1 struck Vec 2 as it past by."

Weird. That's a lot of damage for a parking lot accident.

qbrozen · November 2009

The replaced the right fender, both right doors (that's why you see 2) and they repaired the floor and rear fender. Yes, that was a pretty big accident. I'm very surprised to hear it was only $4k.

Now, what I'm not totally sure on is where the doors came from. I'm wondering if "Recy" means recycled, as in junkyard.

I would take that $9300 from the dealer and run like I just sole something ... because you just did!

That car is worth all of about $9k on a trade WITHOUT the accident.

exb0 · November 2009

Yes, I see what you're saying. If I could keep the $9300 for myself and buy something else with it, I would do exactly that. However, I have to give $4650 of it to my sister. Do you think I can get a better car for $4650.

The car came from Rochester NY. If the parts are from a junk yard, they might have some hidden rust that will expose itself in the future. I just don't know.

qbrozen · November 2009

A "better" car? Well, depends on in what way. I think a better car for kids to cut their teeth on, yes.

And, keep in mind, if you do just spend $4650, it cost you NOTHING. Otherwise, if you keep the car, you have to pony up $4650 of your own cash to pay off your sister, correct?

SOOO... you could buy, say, a $6k car and you've only paid $1400 out of pocket.

Fact of the matter is, you will never see that kind of money for that car again. IMHO, they are giving you OVER private retail for it. There is no way I could turn that down, personally.

british_rover · November 2009

That was a ton of damage and the only way it only cost 4,000 was that they used recycled parts.

Not necessarily anything wrong with recycled parts but still something to consider.

They had to do two separate pulls on the frame machine to get the rear quarter straight and then had to do a couple of rewelds to make it all work.

I wonder how fast the other person was backing up. Maybe when your mother was hit by them the Corolla was pushed into something else. They did replace both rear doors for some reason.

qbrozen · November 2009

I could be wrong, but I don't think it was both rear doors. I'm assuming they just meant both right doors, as both state "RT."

british_rover · November 2009

Oh yeah my bad wasn't paying attention.

How big was the other car I wonder?

Was it a bigger truck so that the back bumper just took out the whole B-Pillar?

Kirstie_H · November 2009

Great advice, tankbeans! Nice of you to share, especially for those parents who think their kids DESERVE to have all of the best, latest & greatest, packed with toys. A car that gets from point A to point B safely and economically is often the best choice, and kind of teaches a lesson that you CAN live without some of the amenities.

plekto · November 2009

Shoot, just get something like this:

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/1446645843.html
It's cheap, affordable, indestructible, and has all of the things you want:

1 - high driving position and no blind spots and good visibility.
2 - no rear seat or party passenger space.
3 - good in snow and bad weather
4 - cheap as dirt to keep running.
5 - no worries if it gets banged up.
6 - manual which means no texting or chatting as all hands and feet are required to do something
7 - can haul stuff which should make for happy friends (and can tow their crap to college and back without a U-haul)
8 - put some nerf bars as step on the sides and some bull bars on front(I suggest black) and the thing's got more than enough "impact protection".

edit - and the best part - pocketing nearly $2K in the whole deal.

exb0 · November 2009

In your opinion, do these frame pulls and rewelds compromise the safety of the car in any way shape or form?

british_rover · November 2009

Probably not modern body shop repair is very, very good. You never know for sure though.

But I will say that I have never actually worked in a body shop. My experience with body work is just being able to spot bad to questionable work on a car traded in. I wouldn't be able to spot really good quality work most people can't. That is why we have paint meters.

morin2 · November 2009

I would not recommend any small pickup, 2wd or 4wd for a new driver. The handling characteristics of these vehicles are just not forgiving enough for the occasional careless maneuver. With no real weight over the drive wheels, its just asking for trouble. Any small FWD car is preferable, or something RWD like the Volvo 240/940 - especially if you are going to teach them auto maintenance. I gave my own daughter my 02 Prizm - a Corolla twin. But she had to earn it with all A's in HS. The 06 discussed previously is larger and has a better transmission. The prior accident damage is the only concern. But it would be hard to turn down that 9300 offer. My Prizm-orolla was wonderful in the snow and I once drove 300 miles in a bad blizzard without a single slip, passing many fancier rides that had slid off the roads (tires a big factor here).

I have my own teen driver favorite - the 94 Subaru Legacy that I sold (yes sold) to my son for his first car. It is the last year for the simpler FWD version (all Legacies after 94 are AWD), has an airbag, and uses r-134, and wonderfully simple to teach auto maintenance. He drove it 1.5 years in HS and 3+ years so far, in college. The 2.2 subaru engine is rock solid reliable and all the basic maintenance could not be easier. You could get an AWD Impreza with the same engine up to about 1999 or 2000 if you're in snow country.

exb0 · November 2009

Well, the work looks good me, but it was spotted by every appraiser who looked at it. Of course after I told them it was in an accident, but I didn't specify where.

As far as finances, it gets complicated. My mother really loves this car, it was the first new car she ever bought, and unfortunately the last. She wants to keep in the family. However, if it is sold, the money will go back to her.

js06gv · November 2009

Regarding the help you were looking for on the estimate:

a) The right fender was replaced with an aftermarketpart (CAPA = Certified Automotive Parts Association)
b) Recy means recycled (used) doors were utilized. Assy means that the entire door assembly was put on the car, as opposed to buying a brand new part which would have only been the shell and then you have to transfer all the "guts"
c) Looks like both right side doors were replaced - the full version of the estimate should specify front and rear
d) The body/structure pulling is very minor in nature based upon the hours allowed and if performed in a reputable repair facility I wouldn't let this bother me at all. This was probably to pull out the B-pillar some or pull the quarter before performing the body repair

Hope this helps.

plekto · November 2009

The simple solution to a truck needing more weight in the rear is to put a simple shell on it. That's 300lbs or so of dead weight as well, which makes it more stable and slower(which is a plus in this case). But I've never had a problem. You learn to drive *more* carefully in a truck or large car than in a small one because you have to plan ahead. And RWD vehicles are plenty safe, despite the bad press that some people give them. I suggested 4x4 because it's what's really required for bad weather and snow if you have it. Yes, a big SUV would also work, but they are more money and can easily haul around friends.

I'd have recommended a Volvo 240/940 as well, but they are approaching 15+ years old and are a potential problem as a result. Still, the 240 with manual was by far my favorite car in the last ten years aside from my 67 Mercedes.

Oh - one interesting thing to note is that old Mercedes can be had for almost nothing as well as they are fine things to get around in. But maintaining it is a bit of money each year as you might expect. The best examples are anything from the 60s and 70s. Somehow, the sedans aren't appreciating at all in value despite being reliable and fun to drive.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/1451940927.html
Awesome cars.

Big, slow, safe, reliable, and a +5 on the visibility score since everyone looks twice at it. The trunk is almost as large as the entire interior of a Smart Car. :P

plekto · November 2009

Part 2 - it wouldn't let me edit the post for some reason...
****
Of course, my personal beater truck - mind you I could afford most anything used - is an old 4Runner. Dirt cheap, reliable, and a nice 45/55 weight ratio so the rear stays planted. I've made emergency maneuvers at 70mph on the freeway and the rear end didn't budge an inch.

http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=61461.0
Mine's not nearly as nice as this, but you get the idea.

- fun to work on and indestructible. Mine's approaching 400K miles rapidly as my daily driver and when this engine does, it'll cost me $1300 for a new one. If it ever dies. It goes like stink with the new header I put on it. The transmission was $1200, brand spanking new three years ago, installed, with a clutch. It's a fun, aggressive thing that costs nothing to maintain and can literally go to Alaska and back.

Old Land Cruisers are also nice as well, but are a bit pricey lately.
http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=59811.0
I'd love to own this thing... heh. My next rig will likely be one of these.

There are so many better ways to spend that money and keep your kid safe than buying some jellybean-mobile commuter box.

exb0 · November 2009

js06gv, thank you, that was very helpful. The repairs where performed by the Sterling Autobody Ctr, a national chain and subsidiary of Allstate insurance. That might explain the low $4K estimate.

I decided to keep the car for the kids. The kids are excited, and my mother is happy to do this for them. I am sure that in the hands of two teenagers, this car will see the inside of body shop a few more times. With 12K on the clock, how can I go wrong. In six years or so I'll sell it for $3K and nobody will care about the previous body damage.

morin2 · November 2009

Yes - I would agree with the 4Runner suggestion. Also, the visibility from the 4Runner's driver's seat is far superior than a small pickup with a cap. The cap weight helps a bit in handling, but is more than offset by the increased blind spot - so not good for a new driver. I've owned many pickups, big and small, and there's just no way they can be recommended for a new driver. The vehicles with the highest teenager fatalities are small pickups (Ford Ranger is #1 in fatalities).

plekto · November 2009

Also, Toyotas with the 4 cylinder and manual get reasonable mileage and aren't really fast. MIne maxxes out at around 80mph but really starts to complain above 70-75.(gearing issue, not power) But thanks to short gearing, it does 0-60 in about 10-12 seconds, which is about what normal traffic does. I have to rev it to 3-4K rpm while they loaf at 1/4 throttle, but I have no issues with traffic, and this is in Los Angeles as well.

Plus they're cheap - just stay away from the 3.0 V6 and you'll be fine. Mine is about 4-6 inches higher than a typical pickup and has big metal bars on the sides(added - $200 used) plus I added another roll bar inside. It's safe and then some. Probably run over a Smart Car without realizing it :P

explorerx4 · November 2009

where did you get your fatality stat?

morin2 · November 2009

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/24/iihs-crash-tests-small-pickups-majority-flunk- /

3rd paragraph, last sentence:
"The IIHS also tells us that small pickups have the highest driver death rates of any vehicles on the road, which makes these tests all the more significant."

Somewhere there are rates by model as well. Ranger was highest for many years. The data for small pickup death rates has been the highest of any vehicle type for at least the past 3 decades.

plekto · November 2009

Yet a small SUV/4x4 is worlds better. The big problem is side impacts with trucks and being a foot higher (or more) off the ground plus extra off-road bits and pieces... well, I know one guy who had someone turn in front of them(didn't look) at 45mph. Guy's back is still kind of messed up, but he survived. The woman was in the hospital for two weeks. His dog broke its back in two places it was so violent.

The reason he survived was certainly because his old Toyota was so solidly built and all the extra stuff he put on it(the big bull bars and so on saved the engine from ending up in his lap, though the truck was totaled otherwise))

Look, nothing is perfect. little econoboxes aren't much better. If it was me, I'd get my son an old Town Car, but.... :P

tankbeans · November 2009

If it's as high as you say it is the Smart probably wouldn't be damaged either.

Maybe if the driver of said Smart was shaken you could load their car into the cargo hold and bring them someplace to calm down.

plekto · November 2009

http://arch.smugmug.com/photos/103108729_5TuaV-L.jpg
Looks like someone already had that idea.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/smart%20car%20crash1.jpg
Of course, you're right - it might be easy to just load into the cargo bay after a crash. I honestly haven't seen anything that bad since VW Bugs were on the road.

tankbeans · November 2009

Yikes. I'm not a fan of Smart cars myself, but that's sad. I hope nobody was hurt.

The sad part is that the first one was probably loaded with 2 or 3 decent sized guys without a forklift. I think they're just too small for our roadways and the number of huge land barges that are floating around. I wouldn't feel safe in one.

I'm not talking down about choices that people make about what they drive. That's their prerogative, but something that small is not Smart (pardon the pun). They're barely more visible than a motorcycle.

/end off topic discussion.

Nice finds with the pics though.

explorerx4 · November 2009

there numbers are measured this way:

In 2006 small pickups experienced 116 driver deaths per million registered vehicles

I see that as a fairly meaningless stat. some people drive 5,000 miles a year, others 50,000. i would prefer passenger miles, like airline safety is measured.

british_rover · November 2009

Those oil 4Runners don't even have side impact door beams. That is a big problem in a side impact and putting some nerf bars or rock crushers on the side isn't going to help.

plekto · November 2009

I guarantee 3 inch diameter steel tubes bolted and then welded directly to the frame at the height of a car bumper will count as "side impact protection". The problem with automobiles is that the bumpers of the SUVs and trucks and so on are right at their window height. Every car since the 60s pretty much has had some sort of reinforcement in the doors to keep them from completely crushing in, but the impact has to be on the door and not at the window.

The sliders/nerf bars are 18 inches high and the front bumper is 40 inches at the top and covers the entire area in the middle. True, the sides aren't protected versus a truck like mine, but I also have a roll bar installed right behind the front seats(there's one in the bed as well - came that way). I figure if they get lucky enough to hit me at the right angle with a SUV where they don't hit the nerf or roll bars first, my number was up anyways. Roling over while off-roading was my #1 concern, so I put the extra protection in for a couple of hundred dollars.

tidester · November 2009

In 2006 small pickups experienced 116 driver deaths per million registered vehicles

This doesn't give a complete picture either but compare it with 130 deaths per million vehicle miles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety) for cars.

On the other hand, 40,000 traffic fatalities each year with 260 MILLION registered vehicles (of all types) works out to about 150 deaths per million registered vehicles.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

plekto · November 2009

http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/composite_cls.aspx?y=2005-2007&cls=8&sz=3&sort- - - - =name

If you look at the actual data, look at the last three rows - that covers insurance claims for people getting injured. If you look at the Tacoma and then the 4x4 version, you'll see a dramatic drop in injuries. Now, compare the data to a small 4 door sedan - almost any will do. There's a massive difference in most cases in safety between midsize and fuill size trucks and SUVs and cars.

I'll bring up one of my favorite personal sayings: "There is no substitute for mass."

In a crash, big, high, and heavy wins almost every time. And these SUVs and trucks are not tiny 4 cylinder micro-boxes any more.

Here is the relevant data from 2005-2007:

Tacoma XTra Cab 2wd 74 81 94
Tacoma Xtra Cab 4x4 62 53 66
4Runner 2wd 77 87 94
4Runner 4x4 75 60 68 (2 inches higher, mostly)
Buick Lucerne 52 59 82
Buick LaCrosse 74 69 76
Toyota Avalon 79 73 66
(100 is considered the industry average - the SUVs skew the data as you can see, since there are so many on the road)
Toyota Camry 131 124 102
Honda Civic 125 124 102
Toyota Corolla 152 144 122
Ford Focus 145 166 137
Nissan Sentra 168 189 154
Toyota Yaris 208 191 193 (yikes)

There are a few exceptions, but the rule generally holds true(some suvs and trucks are worse(though still at least as good as cars), and some small cars are much better than you would expect.

Dodge Durango 2WD 123 129 123 (worst truck I could find for those years, still equal to the Civic's and Camry's ratings, more or less)
VW Beetle 83 88 83 (surprising result)

http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/composite_bw.aspx?y=2005-2007&cv=pip
I see a lot of SUVs and trucks in the top list.

http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/composite_bw.aspx?y=2005-2007&cv=med
Nine out of the ten are trucks and SUVs. Big wins in a crash, just like common sense tells us it should. The trick is to get big *AND* fuel efficient. That means a 4 cylinder or V6 engine, which is where the imports have a better selection.

But you have to research the year and model you are interested in, of course. Many of the older vehicles aren't nearly as good as recent models, and there are specific ones to avoid, naturally.
(as an example, even my ancient 4Runner gets a combined score of 93 which is why it's common to add extra protection to get it closer to the 70-80 "normal" range for SUVs) *note - the Volvo 240 of the same year got a 91.*

explorerx4 · November 2009

motorcycle fatalities are usually 1 or 2 per each.

cbui · December 2009

my first car was a 2003 Honda CR-V. it was a really great and stable car, with no issues about safety. it's bigger and better than a small sedan, but not too overbearing like a full sized SUV. and of course, it was completely reliable. just food for thought.

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