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Comments
After about 40 new cars over my lifetime I've found that they all feel different. Just to know what the TCH would do in case I needed to do it I took the car and floored it, chirping the tire a little. I was real nervous about sitting there on a side road and pulling out in front of trafic with the engine not running.
Anyway the electric motor has enormous torque. By the time it gets you rolling the engine has wound up and is pulling too. While you don't hear the roar I believe the acceleration is indeed there. I've never had a problem.
Yes too, the feel of the accelerator is different. I belive this is accelerate by wire and not a mechanical linkage and in addition the first inch or so of travel is soft. You need that and it's a good design. that's what allows you to be able to feather the pedal to get the max FE. Many cars are touchy. If you need to accelerate quickly with the TCH simply push the pedal to the floor. It will go. Try it (away from traffic) to get the feel.
While the new canry 6cyl is indeed a quick ride with lots of horsepower, the TCH combo of motor and engine has approximately the same horsepower of the previous generation V6 found in the 06 Camry. Yes it has a 4cyl, but the motor has 45 hp I believe and provides more torque than many V6's.
Bottom line, it should blow the doors off the camry 4cyl.
Thanks for the kind comments. I indeed did try to get something with better FE. The Highlander Hybrid was my choice but when I tried the third row seat I pulled something trying to get into the back. I wanted a 7 to 8 passenger vehicle for family trips and a 4wd for winter. It needed to be able to haul tools and jet skis. The Expedition was all I could find to fit the bill comfortably (the Tahoe wasn't even close)
I try to drive the TCH most of the time and I leased the Expedition for 2 years in hopes that the new Sequoia would be available in a hybrid for the 2010 model.
I agree. Even after a couple of days I have never seen the SOC green bars drop from what they were when I parked it.
The other day when my car was in the shop I mentioned this drop in milage. When I picked up the car they did not say anything to me but I am back to getting 39 to 40+. Next time I am there I will ask what adjustments were made to affect this change, but obviously adjustments can be made.
It will . . . . . if both motor and engine are engaged at full throttle, as in passing or freeway merging. But in normal driving, the car feels front heavy, which it is, and a bit sluggish when first starting up.
It's not a drawback to me, but I agree with others who notice the difference compared to other cars. My son (Suburu Legend, 2.5T engine) calls it a slug.
Yes, it is a slug compared the the 250 hp/250 ft/lb legacy GT turbo, which is exactly what I traded in for this car!
tom
I would guess the TCH drives off the line slowly to conserve fuel- I'm sure they could make the throttle more responsive so that it "jumps" off the line, but that is not the purpose of this car. The electric motor in this car provides 50ft/lbs of Torque from ZERO rpm. That's quite a boost from standstill. If recallibrated, i'm sure the TCH could do pretty well 0-60, but your mileage would drop into the low 20s.
tom
I'll get to 42mph and lock it in. After bout 30secs, I'll tap down on the cruise control again which slows and locks in a new speed. The speed drops to 40 mph and the ICE will most of the time kick off and I'm cruising 40 on Battery only. If ICE comes back on...I'll do it again...and it'll drop to 38 and the ICE will stay off then. Works great on those short 10 mile trips. I use this too on the Interstate to help the puter make the ICE and Battery to work in harmony more quickly. I'll get it to 65mph and lock. Tap the cruise down to lock in new speed. May have to do this several times, and wait 30 secs each time, but by the time it gets to 60mph...its purrrring on the gauges near 48-50 mph. I've only taken one highway trip since I bought the vehicle, and got 50.7 mph using this method.
What is the maximum speed that we can shift to B without the fear of over-revving the ICE?
Just curious how many thousand miles can the brake pads last?
driving about 15000 miles/year, mainly city driving.
Also curious if 0-60 acceleration times are faster if you accelerate with the shifter lever in B instead of D?
Because B only affects braking, it will not alter the 0-60 acceleration times.
The brake pads will last much longer than they would on a conventional car with an automatic transmission, but of course the mileage you get will depend greatly on how and where you drive.
most of this is intown surface streets--with a couple of longer freeway travels--mpg is getting about 33.8 but have only filled it twice--car was new on lot/ low mileage when it was test driven and bought and there are times when I do get caught in lights and do have short runs which at not fuel efficient--I am not complaining about my mpg because of what we are getting but I am concerned that my car may be developing a problem tracking/monitoring the actual use of gasoline and the change from gas to battery....
I want to know if what I am seeing IS normal--if anyone else has seen this same readout--if anyone might have explanation for what my car is doing...
I am noticing what I consider irregular, problematic occurances with the MPG gauge/dial when I am driving (and sometimes when I look at what is happening when my husband drives as well)--I did not notice this same type of dial movement when we first bought the car and were driving it---
I have tried to follow some of these threads but frankly I hate the way this forum is organized because I think it is so DIS-organized and difficult to track a thread even if using OUTLINE format...
ANYWAY--
when I am driving and have built up speed and wish to coast and go to the regenerative battery buildup--sometimes my MPG dial will hesitate and not drop to the blue E zone at the bottom--sometimes when I am coasting at 40 mph or lower, the dial will hesitate and stay at 40 MPG or 60 MPG--
there are a few cases when I was coasting and the dial acutally went UP to 20 MPG--
and I am using NO gas--there might be some in the system because I was on conventional engine before I started coasting--but my foot is off the accelarator
I DON"T understand why that is happening--it seems to interfere with accurately tracking the MPG of the car's total mileage electronically through the system---
I am worried that it means there is problem with the transfer from battery power to gasoline power which suggests a problem with the battery system in general...
my husband says this is normal--that the dial hanging has happened from the beginning of driving the car (which I do not believe because I would have thought it was weird to start with)
I called the Toyota dealership and talked to our salesman who does not drive a TCH--only sells them--he referred me to the service dept--
talked to guy who is basically clueless since his mantra was that there are so many built-in system safeguards that if there was a problem I would get an error message from the car
Again-- I don't believe that explanation--
his explanation was that there were many different configurations of driving/battery conditions during any given time period and what I was seeing was normal
I want to know WHY not using any gas would make my MPG dial go to 40 mpg--
does ANYONE have an explanation--
has anyone noticed the same type of behavior on your car
do I need to take the car in
It does not happen all the time--do we could spend a lot of time driving around trying to recreate the senario when it would happen....
Let me ask you - does this happen more often during the start of a trip?
What is happening to your dial is that when the car is NOT in electric mode, you will see the needle in the 20-60 MPG range regardless of the situation with the gas pedal.
If the car is in E-Mode, then the needle will stay in the blue E area.
Just because you think you are not giving the car any gas does not mean it is not USING gasoline - it uses gasoline the entire time it is NOT in electric mode.
The car does not AUTOMATICALLY switch to E-Mode every time you stop giving it gas.
The only time it will be (and stay) in the blue E area is in electric mode.
I don't think your car has any kind of problem.
- First, you're stating you're "not using any gas", when in reality what you've done is let up on the accelerator pedal. The "brain" of the car sends gas through the engine, relies on the battery, or both, depending on power needs at the time. If the car was just started or if you've come off of a long coast, the system may be working to recharge the hybrid battery, so it won't necessarily cut off the ICE (internal combustion engine). I find my car often stays at around 40MPG if I'm cruising on the highway.
- Second, it takes a delicate touch to lift off the accelerator just enough to disengage the ICE and rely solely on the hybrid drive. If your MPG dial is at 20MPG, then pull up off the pedal just a hair more.
It takes a period of adjustment to drive this car at maximum efficiency, and while I've had mine for over 2 months, I still occasionally find myself pressing harder on the pedal than I need to, causing the MPG dial to move into the 20MPG or less range.
FYI, when I drive the car I've typically been averaging average around 40-41MPG over the course of several days. When my wife drives the same vehicle under the same conditions, she gets 32-35. She's not a leadfoot, just not as obsessed as I am with maximizing fuel efficiency.
"You can lead a Woman to a hybrid, but........."
P.S. One of the funniest things I ever saw was at a Target about 4 years ago. Saw an OLD, OLD lady parking in the handicapped spot. She had several minor dings and dents in her car, which to me looked like a severe case of "little-old-lady-driveritis." Her car: A 2004 Honda Civic HYBRID. My guess is that some salesman saw her coming and said, "Let's maximize profits by selling this sweet old lady a hybrid instead of an LX."
this usually happens more after the car has been driven a while--
can happen when battery is full or when it has been reduced somewhat by use according to the bars I see on the gauge
so if I am driving my car at more than 40 mph--my readout says I am using the conventional engine--my MPG dial is maybe 20-30-35-40 MPG read out--just depends on terrain and speed and other variables
when I start to coast and NOT have my foot on accelator--my car goes into battery recharge mode---correct?
that is the E mode--is it not?
so if I am in battery recharge mode--why does my MPG dial not go to E mode as well?
I was NOT in any way trying to disparage my wife's driving, just trying to illustrate the difference in how the car performs based on whether you're "trying" or not.
The engine is -always- on above 41MPH or so. The instant MPG you're seeing displayed depends on a LOT of variables including those you mentioned and more. Without having a logic chart showing all the factors the car takes into consideration (which I'd LOVE to see), we pretty much have to rely on the onboard sensors to detect if there is a problem. If they're not finding one, you should be in good shape.
Also remember that one of the most frustrating things a service department has to deal with is when someone says "it does XXX now and then, but I can't predict when or make it happen when I want to." Warranty typically only pays for a problem that can be identified. Unless a problem is repeatable, you could find yourself spending a lot of money trying to track down a ghost when there's nothing actually wrong with the car.
However, the engine will run if it determines that the battery needs charging, whether or not your foot is off the accelerator. In short, it operates (at times at least) independent of you, and possibly contrary to what you expect it to do.
If the engine is running to recharge the battery, then you wouldn't expect to see the MPG dial at E.
when he filled up he put in 14.2 gals I think--and he does not usually pump it to add a couple of extra bursts...
so I know that there is more in the tank
can't remember the exact mileage on the trip meter but about 470
I am not getting top MPG so far --33.2-33.8 avg mpg...
I'm getting the same MPG as you currently are. So far I've put a little over 500 miles on my 09 TCH. I'm halfway through my second tank. Like you, I also waited a while after the 0 cruising range and E on the fule gage to fill up. My first fill up was a little over 15 gallons. The manual states the total tank capacity is 17.2 gallons, so I guess we still have about 3 gallons left in the tank after reaching when 0 cruising range and E on the fuel gage.
I told him there were 2-3 gallons in there still--that the car was supposed to go about 600 on optimum mpg
so we could go another 30 mi at least--but he would not even wait until we ate supper===
went to fill the tank right away---
did not want to take a chance on the tank going dry and not having enough juice in the battery...
0- 20W is the best for max eco. I just had the oil changed with 5-20W. To tell the truth I've never seen 0-20W. I have only driven a little but it seems like my mileage dropped for 40 to 41 to 35 to 37.
Also, I have a really hard time not dropping the mpg gauge to 10mpg or below when accelerating. And I really don't think I'm a "fast off the line" type of driver.
A note after driving our new hybrid for a little over a week: I find it hard to not feel pressured to "prove" to the other drivers that my car can perform as well as theirs.
And it sure would be nice if the dealership had offered some of the driving knowledge contained in this thread. Hybrid driving classes, maybe.
Thank you, everyone for your input.
That's a common struggle in all aspect of life. When you know something to be true, you don't need to prove it to others. I guess that's where the "smugness" comes from.
It's indeed normal when stopped. If the engine is running and burning fuel, then you indeed are getting "0" miles per gallon at that moment. And this is an instaneous readout so that is correct.
Yes...but as soon as the engine is warm and the battery is charged up, the engine will kick off again while stopped, even with the a/c on.
It is NOT normal for decelerating. It is normal when stopped, regardless of if the ICE is running.
Any time you are moving, you are adding miles to the vehicle, and getting SOME kind of positive MPG; low perhaps, but never zero while the vehicle is moving.
Can anybody let us know how to program the smart key so that when I open the driver seat side, all the four doors get opened?
Presently it is only the driver side opens and manually I need ot open the remaining doors.
Regards
Vai
Edited -- here it is from the manual:
SELECTING DOORS TO BE UNLOCKED WITH ENTRY FUNCTION
The unlocking operation has 2 modes. To change the mode, within 1 m (3 ft.) of the vehicle press the lock switch and the alarm, trunk opener or unlock switch simultaneously for five seconds.
The “POWER” switch must be turned off. When the mode is changed, the buzzer will sound and an indicator is displayed on the multi−information display as follows:
See Toyota iGuide: http://www.toyotaiguide.com/content/07Camry/iGuide.htm
Under "other features" and then "customizable electronic features," Toyota lists several control settings that the dealer can change.
I am just amazed on how quiet the engine is and how
smooth the electric/gas tandem operates.
Thank you all for the tips to maximize mileage.
Looking forward to my first fill-up to check actual MPG!
Looking to hit 40+ MPG. :shades:
Thanks,
Sox
As for starting in electric mode, I assume it used to or it would not concern you? Mine seldom stays in electric from a start unless I really work at it.
Also, what's mode 1, 2, 3, or 4. This is the first instance in which I've heard of it/them.
My car acts differently when it first starts up and when it is warmed up, are there different stages?
* The warm up times vary with the temperature as well as use of the car's climate control system. The ECO mode helps, but if the temperature is below 40F, you may see the ICE stay running for a long time if you have the heat on.
The TCH has 4 stages of operation.
1. Stage 1 is initial warmup. The ICE will not shut off and battery assist is greater than normal. In warmer weather, this lasts a minute or less. In colder weather it can last a few minutes.
2. Stage 2 is engine warmup. It lasts 2 or 3 miles in cool weather, longer in cold weather. The ICE shuts off if you stop, but will not shut off when coasting.
3. Stage 3 is partial hybrid mode. The ICE is warm, and the engine shuts off if you coast between 35 and 41mph. If you stop with the ICE running, it will stop after a short time, but stays running once started until you coast (between 35 and 41mph) or stop again.
4. Stage 4 is full hybrid mode. Enter it by braking to a complete stop (or slowing to below 5 miles per hour) for approximetely 7 seconds or so it takes for the ICE to shut off), it is possible to enter Stage 4. It is hard to know if this ICE shutdown is due to stage 3 or entering stage 4. The only way to know is to accelerate to ~20mph and coast.
If the ICE...
o ...continues to run after you stop the car, it is still in stage 3.
o ...stops within a few seconds the car is in stage 4.
In stop and go traffic, stage 4 lets the ICE stop any time you coast, instead of having to be over 35mph when coasting. If the ICE is running, turn off the heat and the ICE turns off, you'll know that you are in stage 4.
If you want to try and force stage 4, the ICE must be running when you stop or the TCH will not enter stage 4, it will remain in stage 3. You can hold your foot on the brake and "blip" the throttle to "start" the ICE, and then enter Stage 4 after it shuts down (~ 7 seconds.)
Remember, cold weather conditions and turning on the heater may prevent the ICE from stopping (but it will keep you warm, use your own discretion and common sense).
* Typically how long do the stages last?
o Assuming moderate (50 to 60F) temperatures when driving on suburban roads (between 25 to 40 miles per hour)...
+ Stage 1 lasts approximately 30 seconds
+ Stage 2 approximately 3 minutes
+ Stage 3 approximately 3 minutes
Of course, warmer temps reduce the Stage 2 and 3 times and colder temps can greatly increase them.
So what stage am I in when I'm doing 30mph, on a slight incline (not coasting) and my battery is driving the electric motor? I don't see these 4 stages covering all the different scenarios. :confuse:
The 4 stages is not about which mode your driving in but rather what the computers will do in a given scenario.