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2008 Pontiac G8

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Comments

  • creamcitiancreamcitian Member Posts: 23
    Generally on the east coast to the Rockies we have 87, 89, 91. In the high deserts it seems that 87 (or maybe 89) is the highest and it can go down to 85. Some places seem to have 93 and all around the country there are spots that sell racing fuel with a rating of just over 100.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

    Measurement methods

    The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel through a specific test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing these results with those for mixtures of isooctane and n-heptane.

    There is another type of octane rating, called Motor Octane Number (MON) or the aviation lean octane rating, which is a better measure of how the fuel behaves when under load. MON testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing, but with a preheated fuel mixture, a higher engine speed, and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance. Depending on the composition of the fuel, the MON of a modern gasoline will be about 8 to 10 points lower than the RON. Normally fuel specifications require both a minimum RON and a minimum MON.

    In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the "headline" octane that would be shown on the pump is the RON, but in the United States and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2. Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, this means that the octane in the United States will be about 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, would be 91-92 in Europe. However most European pumps deliver 95 (RON) as "regular", equivalent to 90-91 US (R+M)/2.
    2022 X3 M40i
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    I like I said in the GM forum think the G8, could of had the Holden body panels and done very well. It would of saved GM, some money also. My wish is they bring over the Holden Commodore HSV and keep all the Holden Body Panels and call it the G8 HSV. That car would not only look very sexy, but it would give Pontiac some clout and a temporary Halo car with a 7.0 LS-7 making 502 hp. I would also add the Bose 5.1 300-watt Surround Sound System I believe found on the Holden "Statesman" and of course other GM cars. I'd keep the adjustable Delphi Magneride MRC and perhaps add ventilated seats and swivel headlamps for $45K in a limited edition run. ;)

    The Cadillac CTS-V could move up to $50-60K and offer the potential owners a Bose a 15 speaker "Bose 5.1-7.1 Studio Surround Sound with 500 watts" Delphi's Magneride MRC adjustable suspension, 600 horsepower Supercharged 7.0 LS-7 V8, and perhaps a aluminum trim with ventilated Recaro sport seats with extra side bolstering, etc, etc, etc......This would help distinguish it from the Holden- Pontiac G8 GXP/HSV :shades:

    Rocky
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It would never sell.

    When people think Pontiac, they aren't thinking that expensive. I bet it would be a sales nightmare!

    -mike
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well my friend you would be wrong IMHO. The Commodore HSV G8 with 500+ horsepower would be a poor mans M3/M5 and with the options I listed would out-luxury it also. ;)

    You and I disagree on the $45K. What if GM could keep it closer to $40k ????

    Rocky
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I dunno, it's still a brand thing. I would love it but from a marketing standpoint certain companies can't break certain price points no matter what the car has in it.

    For instance, take the SRT8. I have a few friends who are dealers, and guess what? They have a ton of them sitting on their lots because people don't want to pay the premium for a Dodge or a Chrysler.

    Just like an expensive Subaru, they can have all the features, power, etc. However once they break a certain price ceiling, people say "but it's a Subaru" or "but it's a Dodge" or "but it's a Pontiac"

    I'd love to see it but I just don't see people paying out that much cash for a "Pontiac".

    Much like the GTO. Stickered at $33k, at 33k it was "ok" at 29k it was "more worth while" at 27k it's "a good deal" at 25k "it's well worth it"

    -mike
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Mike,

    I can see what you are saying. Well I will put it this way to you pal. What are you really getting spending in the mid-40's for a SRT-8 Charger ????? You still have the very cheap plasticky interior and you only gained 80 hp. You have no manual option, the car gets a slightly tuned suspension and bigger tire/wheels but from my perspective that isn't enough. In the G8's case you'd get 140 hp, a manual option, and of course upgrades like a Delphi adjustable Magneride MRC, and of course bigger tires/wheels and perhaps some interior/exterior treatments like a spoiler or racing seats ????? Even without any interior upgrades you are getting one helluva a lot more features than the SRT-8. My buddy bought a Hemi 5.7 Charger and modified it to beat a SRT-8 and saved thousands doing it. I think he had $39K into it and that included aftermarket body panels and stuff I wouldn't of done. The SRT-8 he was looking at was going to cost him $44K ($2K? off) because they were very proud of it.

    So my bottom line is you are getting a lot more G8 HSV by paying around $45K than some idiot spending mid $40's for a plasticky unrefined SRT-8. ;)

    Rocky
  • creamcitiancreamcitian Member Posts: 23
    I'm with paisan. No way people most people would pay that much for a Pontiac. Perhaps bringing it here under the Holden nameplate, but not Pontiac. Yeah, I could see bringing both those cars (and maybe more) as the Holdens and then getting the kind of money they want.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well a loaded out Trans-Am in 02 would run you $38K and they sold quite well. $7K more 6 years later for a car that has 4 doors and 177 more horses under the hood and is "light years" a head in quality, fit and finish, gadgetology., and has plenty of room for (4) ;)

    I'm not saying Pontiac would sell 200,000 units as I said the 502 hp. version would be a "Limited Edition" model.
    I think a goal of lets say 2,500-5,000 unit though isn't unrealistic.

    I also am just speculating on a $45K MSRP. Hell for all I know they can do it for under $40K ???? I just remember reading in Motor Trend that GM, had plans to bring over a LS-7 version of the Holden HSV and assumed the cost of such a product would tip towards $45K. It might be significantly less ???? I would personally like to see such a "limited" halo car come to our shores to reinvent Pontiac's performance image. :shades:

    Rocky
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    So the moral of the story is, where ever the hell you are.
    SPEND MORE BUCKS, GET MORE BANG!

    Of course, the US would have to have it's own system, just to confuse the hell out of you :)
  • creamcitiancreamcitian Member Posts: 23
    au contraire mon frair - the last gen trans-am may have had a lot of power (especially for the time) but sold well? sold so well they dicontinued the model after 2002?

    my man, i would be the last do deny you your uber fast 4-door sedan with all the latest gizmo goodness, but as a pontiac it just won't happen (they may, over time, with all these nifty cars, be able to increase their cachet but it would take years to do that). right now they are billing themselves as performace, not luxury, and they haven't really been performace for years. first they have to get the performance then they could think about adding the luxury.

    although, bringing over all the holden models as luxury performance in the next couple of years would be interesting - could pontiac do it? they have a lot of mea culpa-ing to do first.

    one thing we can probably all agree on is that having this thing coming over is just really neat-o.
  • creamcitiancreamcitian Member Posts: 23
    sorry holdenguy, we use the kaplow system, not the bang system like the rest of the world...
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    You make valid points and is hard to disagree with you. I guess it doesn't matter to me because if I go for a high performance 4 door car from GM, it will likely be a 09'
    CTS-V. I would also be really happy with the 08 CTS. ;)

    Rocky
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I think it's something folks on here can appreciate, but on a mass-marketing scale wouldn't happen. I think we might see it more likely in a Buick moniker than a Pontiac.

    CTS-V is a great car, I just can't justify the cost as a street car and don't have deep enough pockets to justify the cost as a road-race car. I'm still running about a $4000 total investment road race car that's 12 years old. :)

    -mike
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    :) You guys get fuel so cheap there, I would always be using the maximum bang juice available.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hmm, well interestingly unless your car is tuned for higher octane, you actually get WORSE performance from a higher octane fuel. The higher the octane the less actual power you get from each explosion.

    -mike
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Where did you hear such a thing like that ???? Not with Delphi's fuel injectors that are in GM vehicles. If you car is set to run on regular it might not be best to run premium all the time in it. Some GM, cars are set up to run on premium but regular is okay but they might not achieve max hp.

    Rocky
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Right, if you car is set to run on Premium you should run it, although running on regular will have the ECU dial back your timing and dial back performance, but likely won't injure the car. If your car is set to run on regular you are wasting your money and probably seeing worse milage and performance from higher octane fuel.

    -mike
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    in here: G8 production may come here based on demand.

    "It is highly likely that as we move to higher volumes for the global rear-drive architecture, we will begin to produce" in North America, said GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz. "Importing from Australia at this point is a transitional phase. It permitted us to get the car quickly and for a minimum of investment."

    I hope they hit the demand.

    What I like:
    The G8 is 2.1 inches shorter than the Grand Prix, but its wheelbase is 4.3 inches longer, and the vehicle is 3.2 inches wider.

    So, no more ridiculous overhangs and a car that may actually have as much working space as the exterior implies? All good in my book, and a heck of a step forward for the General!

    Know what I hate?

    Waiting...
  • creamcitiancreamcitian Member Posts: 23
    oh yeah, waiting SUCKS. although it gives me time to try and save some bucks for the extras, but still...
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well dad said run premium every 10 fill ups to flush the injectors out. My uncle runs 89 mid grade in his pick-ups that require 87. He says he's able to gain about 1 mpg extra. GM's engines you are correct won't gain much power if it's set up to run on regular 87' octane. I however always ran premium in my 02' Cadillac Seville STS and it was fine to run on 87' octane.

    Rocky
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yeah when I'm doing towing in my Armada I throw in a tank or 2 of 93. More important than the octane is where you get it. High volume, newer stations you are going to get better fuel than lower volume older stations.

    -mike
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    Hmm, well interestingly unless your car is tuned for higher octane, you actually get WORSE performance from a higher octane fuel. The higher the octane the less actual power you get from each explosion.

    Got to disagree on that one.
    I ran the car on the lower grade, 91 here, which is what the car is supposedly tuned for 4 about 3 years.
    Then I started using 95.
    2 tanks through the car and the increase in power and economy are terrific.
    Have been using the 95 for about 2 years now and the car has never been better.
    It runs so much smoother and has heaps of grunt on tap.
    I'll never go back to 91.
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/hsv-clubsport-review.htm

    Here is a nice little review with pics
    on the VE HSV Clubsports.
    I just want one! lol.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    In your case, your ECU must be tuned to run on the 95 then, or learned to run on the 95. Similarly, here in the states the Armada is the same truck as the QX56 except the QX56 requires Premium and the Armada only requires 87, a msg board did a test and dynoed both vehicles then reset the ECUs and ran 1000 miles of the opposite fuel in them. After that they re-dynoed them and the Armada had the HP/Torque curves of the QX56 and visa versa. The Q get's about 10hp and 10lbs torque more than the Armada.

    -mike
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Yeah I agree.....I try to also buy top tier-1 fuel from places like Shell and Phillips.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Kirstie, can you change this title to Pontiac G8. I saw you shut that other fellows G8 forum down but his title now is officially accurate. ;)

    Thanks,

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Thanx Kirstie :)

    Rocky
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Whoever started that post with "formerly rumored G8" in the title got slapped in the face.
    I love this new G-8. It's no Charger, but It will be great competition(finally!).
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yeah the 300c and Charger are nice, however no MT available killed it for me. That's why I went over to the GTO camp and probably get a 2nd year G8 after they work out the bugs, like they did in the first year GTO.

    -mike
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Whoever started that post with "formerly rumored G8" in the title got slapped in the face.

    I did and I asked Kirstie to change it for me to the G8 name because the articles I read when I started this forum was GM, was thinking about keep the Grand Prix name instead of naming it G8. However they instead went back to the G8 name and let the Grand Prix name die. :P

    Rocky
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    First, by raising the issue ( for me ) of the apparent near 4,000 pound weight of the G8 V8, I mean no disrespect to GM \ Pontiac , nor do I mean to ignore or “gloss over” the fact that they will be bringing to market something with features & specifications that many, many here & elsewhere have been asking for – for quite a long time:

    For example:
    RWD
    V8
    6-Speed Manual trans. available

    I think that this G8 marks quite an important product and an important time for Pontiac & for GM. I find it hard to judge the aesthetics without seeing one in person, but I am encouraged by what I have seen & read so far.

    ( I expect that the show car will be here in Atlanta for this year’s auto show, March 10 – 18, so I may have an opportunity then. Though of course it is likely to be stuck up on a turntable with a ‘spokesmodel’ – sigh. )

    If I was going to seriously consider buying one early next year ( I’m not ), I’d prefer the HUD. I have had it in 2 Grand Prix-s and now in my Corvette. I would also prefer a lighter curb weight. But neither may end up being a ‘deal-breaker’, come decision time.

    OTOH: With the gearing quoted, I expect that a MN6 version of the V8 maybe capable of mid-13s. And the 6L80 \ manumatic, with a somewhat more aggressive final drive than is in my A6 Corvette, might also manage something close to that – maybe high 13s. Reasonably quick, for a 4DR sedan of this size expected to carry an MSRP in the mid-30s.

    ( 2.92:1 final drive vs 2.56:1 in the Corvette A6 = approx. 14% more ‘dig’ \ mechanical advantage – against approx. 21% more weight for the G8. )

    If I do seriously consider one, it will likely be a 2009 or a 2010 – and at least 2 years from now. ) Did I hear from Bob L. say in some interview that the G8 will be sold here starting just after the beginning of 2008 – as a 2009? ) Anyway, we’ll se what changes that second Model Year brings. And where it is assembled. Etc.

    Point here is that while I generally agree with several criticisms here leveled at the specifications released so far – I hope that they are not taken to mean that I don’t respect the fact that GM \ Pontiac is bringing this car to market in NA. I am optimistic. The fact that they are bringing to market what looks like a worthy competitor to various other RWD V8 sedans – well, I see as a very positive step.

    I look forward to seeing one up close.

    And eventually driving one.

    - Ray
    Not in the market today, but a card carrying CCBA . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    big "duh" here:
    Lutz on chasing BMW.

    He says they benchmarked BMW on the structure and tuning, and Audi on the interior.

    Based on my experience with both of those brands, I would have done precisely the same. This is all hopefull.

    Problem with GM recently though, IMO, is that while they have produced some appealing cars that certainly update their image as being real contenders, most have been also-rans in their classes and not the TKOs I think they need to take back share (G6 leaps to mind immediately). They have produced some things that are "as good as" the competition, or there abouts, and seem to want to trade on price.

    My thought is that, for at least a stretch of five years or so, they have to produce clear class winners consistently, and trade on price as well, in order to really reverse the tide.

    And what's with these long stretches (IMO) to market? A car based on existing architecture with major parts-bin applications and yet we won't see it until early next year? With a Camaro that won't arrive until, what, a year after that? Late August. That's what it ought to be, late August says I... :blush:

    Remember 90's Chrysler before DCX, and their 24-month concept to showroom successes?

    C'mon General, you're getting so close!
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    Camaro cant be built until the factory is retooled for Zeta production. They have to phase out products in Oshawa like the Monte Carlo and Grand Prix before they can prepare it for Camaro. Obviously they need the G8 here before they can phase out the GP completely and I've heard the GP will go out of production in December. By late 2008 the Camaro's production will begin.

    I assume the G8 cant be sold her sooner do to crash and emissions certifications and other regulatory stuff.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    rayainsw,

    Sounds to me you need a 502 hp G8 GXP after the
    HSV-grin :blush: That will be available probably in 2009' ;)

    Rocky
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    "I assume the G8 can't be sold here sooner do to crash and emissions certifications and other regulatory stuff..."

    I'm assuming that's a great part of the equation, but I also think there is a corporate process adding some man-hours here. ;)
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "I'm assuming that's a great part of the equation, but I also think there is a corporate process adding some man-hours here."

    Actually, I'm assuming that's only a small part of the equation (just how different emmissions-wise is the 6.0l V8 compared to the LS2 in the old GTO?). Personally, I think the internal corporate BS process is at fault here more than anything else.

    GM just CAN'T get new product to the market efficiently enough.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Member Posts: 1,982
    Well, I was being nice... :P
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well the LS2 in the old GTO is different in that it doesn't have the MDS also each car has to be tested for safety and emissions regardless of if the engine is in a different car IIRC, especially if it has different HP and what not.

    Also they haven't finalized the body panels yet I think. They are going to still be refining it through the summer.

    -mike
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Well, I was being nice..."

    Was today YOUR turn to be the 'good cop'? ;)
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "...also each car has to be tested for safety and emissions regardless of if the engine is in a different car IIRC, especially if it has different HP and what not."

    Yes. They must be TESTED. But it's not like the new engine is a clean sheet of paper design. If anything, I'd imagine the MDS system would make emissions testing easier. The point isn't whether the new engine/vehicle must be tested but how LONG such testing/certification must take?

    Particularly when other manufacturer's seem to get through the same process quicker with designs which ARE all new.....
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    anxious to see the non "show" version, should still be a good looker and quite the 4DSC with the GT's V8. Can't wait to take it for a drive.

    -Brian
  • rmozolrmozol Member Posts: 124
    Did I miss anywhere if the rear seats will fold down like in the current GP GXP? That was a deal-maker for me!
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    The official GM release does not state anything about fold down rear seats.

    And the stated "Cargo Volume" lists only a single number ( 17.5 cu ft ) where typically it would list 2 numbers if the seat(s) folded....

    So - I believe it is unlikely, but not impossible...
    - Ray
    No rear seats in current 'ride' to fold up or down...
    2022 X3 M40i
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    No, the rear seats don't fold down.
    I think it has something to do with the positioning of the fuel tank.
    Someone asked ages ago if it will have AWD.
    No, the position of the steering rack is to far forward of the motor.
    As for passing crash tests,
    Yes, the car has a 5 star rating.
    This car is as solid as rock.
    I wish I could show you the DVD I have on the development and testing of the chassis and body.
    It impressed the hell out of me :)
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    Yes Paisan,
    The cars ECU does sense the higher octane and adjusts for it.
    I have not heard of a car down here that doesn't.
    Except maybe some carburetted old hack.
    Even my old 1985 VK Commodore with a 3.3 litre straight 6 that had Bosch Jetronic fuel injection fitted was able to,"learn".
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The previous version of the commodore/monaro was available in AWD though right? Shame it isn't anymore :(

    -mike
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Mike,

    Who knows maybe they can figure something out. I'm hoping they will bring the Holden Statesman over and build it here as the Pontiac G10/Bonneville ;)Holdenguy, doesn't the Statesman have AWD as a option ????

    Rocky
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    Sorry mate, no AWD Monaro.
    They made some Commodore wagons and Utes AWD.
    They were called Avalanche(wagon) and Cross 8 (Ute).
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    Sorry Rockylee, No AWD Statey. Just keep dreaming about your HSV mate.
    I've seen a few getting around lately.
    A guy at work who's buddy has one has done a zero to 60 mph time of 4.65.
    Now that's not to bad :)
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