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2008 Pontiac G8
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Comments
Regards,
OW
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
Hmm that may knock it out of the box for me. I have a Garmin but I'd much prefer a built in system in my next new car.
Otherwise the car is starting to grow on me.
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
And as discussed, there are several other items "missing" from the G8
- items that were available on previous Pontiac models
that sold at similar prices.
(( sigh ))
- Ray
HUD, for example........
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Regards,
OW
I thought it read "6-way" seat. Meaning there IS NO 8th adjustment, not that there is an 8th adjustment but its just manual.
So, the way I am reading this is that you have a recline, a slide, and an up-and-down to get your 6 ways. An 8-way seat, on the other hand, has 2 separate up-and-downs for the rear of the seat and the front of the seat. This makes a world of difference for someone 6' 5".
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
how do you suppose that Hyundai can market the Genesis as a low cost alternative to things like those German sedans - and not be a 'sports sedan' ? If anything I would guess that the Korean car might just do a better job at 'sport sedan emulation' then GM would in a full size Pontiac. A simple comparison of the specs. confirms this - but some actual cars would definitely help.
And absolutely, $40k is more than anybody is going to want to spend on something with that 'Hyundai' label which is why some traditional Korean deep discounting, PDQ. Both the G8 and Genesis may actually fetch a reasonably high price initially - but once the novelty wears thin and the reality of $4 gas hits, they will end up having to 'give' the cars away.....
I thought it read "6-way" seat. Meaning there IS NO 8th adjustment, not that there is an 8th adjustment but its just manual.”
FWIW: The specs for the 2007 Corvette, both standard & optional ‘sport’ seats, read: 6-way [ power].
They move for \ aft as well as front or rear of seat bottom up \ down individually – but the backrest angle is ‘manual’.
I’d be pretty amazed if the G8 didn’t have the ability to move the seat bottom front & rear \ angle in the same way.
And that would absolutely be a ‘deal breaker’ for me. Though I am not as tall, I do need that adjustability to vary thigh support – particularly on longer trips.
Again, FWIW.
- Ray
Not quite near enough to the NAIAS to visit on a whim, just to find this out . . .
I wonder if they'll have one to actually sit in.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Back to comparisons, I only see very few similarities for competition between the Genesis and G8. More luxury vs. more performance. Hyundai has already mentioned that they are targeting this vehicle as the halo luxury model. Yes, it needs the HP output to compete but performance is not their intended market. Will people cross shop? YES!
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
This is quoted from someone who was at the NAIAS prior to public showing. So Mike, I believe you mentioned this setup on the Corvette? - Then you're right. There's also a pic where the rear armrest comes down, then the second membrane for cup holders - problem is when you use the cup holders, the pass thru is open which your rear passengers can access your trunk. If things are not tied down back there, then you're in for a treat.
I found the pics:
http://www.hammen.net/bowman/rear_armrest.jpg
http://www.hammen.net/bowman/pass_thru.jpg
Regarding my reading of the EPA MPG, comparing the G8 GT w/6.0L V8 to a G35 w/3.5L V6 seems somewhat unfair, to me, given the existence of the M45. Much closer in weight & in HP & in performance. ( And fuel economy I see as one aspect of ‘performance’. )
And yet, the G35 is rated at exactly the same EPA highway MPG as the G8 GT V8. 24 MPG. And the M45 is rated at 16 \ 21.
That 21 number ( and associated high RPM at highway speeds ) is one primary reason that I did not choose an M45 last time I was shopping for a Sports Sedan. Though ( again ) the M certainly has much to recommend it.
And I see the highway number as much more important. Stop + go, lower speed driving, with lots of ( opportunities for ) acceleration tends to be an area where the nut that holds the wheel has much more occasion to [ dramatically ] impact actual MPG.
Many ( including some here ) have suggested that anyone looking at a 4,000# sedan with a 6.0L V8 cannot possibly be ( should not be ) concerned with MPG. I do happen to care. In addition to a desire for what I consider a reasonable trade-off between acceleration performance, carrying capacity & efficiency, I also look at driving range.
To me, a difference of 21 to 24 ( 3 MPG = over 14% better ) in highway MPG is also the difference of over 50 miles in range, on 18 gallons of gas. ( To be fair here, the M45 does have a 20 gallon tank vs. 19 for the G8 – so if you run both leaving approx. 1 gallon ‘in reserve’, the G8 will only be able to travel an additional 33 miles. But the M45 will then require an additional 2 or 3 cups of hot & tasty coffee worth of gas when filled. Each time it is filled, under these conditions. )
- Ray
Looking forward to fuel use reports from actual customers in actual driving . . . Maybe next month?
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Don't believe so- or at least not if Hyundai is thinking the car is a Euro 'sports sedan' competitor. Of course Hyundai is the one that has the chutzpah to compare the Sonata to a 3 series.
Since this is a G8 forum though - think it will be a big mistake if GM 'tunes' the car like a skateboard. It is a large heavy sedan and should play to those that need a big 'family' sedan but also has some fond memories of the 'muscle car' past. An older demographic (like me) for sure but also one that historically has shown to prefer the softer highway cruisers - one of the reasons why cos. like Toyota/Lexus sell so well in this country. If the G8 is that stiffly sprung 'skateboard' it will lose any chance it might have to appeal to the masses and will relegate itself more into the category of a low volume curiosity or 'speciality' car.
Back on the subject of REAL gas mileage - the 300Cs ratings are one of the biggest jokes in the industry simply because DOD ,which is obviously designed to maximize things on a simple constant (and relatively low ) highway speeds still does not reflect the way we actually drive. It has nothing to do with what the G8 might do in a laboratory, but more to do with what happens when you actually use the accelerator - something that is hard to avoid in 350hp sedans! Don't believe the G8 V8 is going to anywhere close to say a M35 FE wise, more likely what the M45 does. It will be interesting to see what percentage of G8 buyers opt for the 3.6 V6 and FTM how many of the cars end up at the airport.
Perhaps you will not.
As posted, the EPA numbers ( and testing methodology ) are substantially changed for the 2008 Model Year.
Here are some details:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
Of particular note in the G8 GT \ V8 context:
“Beginning with 2008 models, three additional tests will be used to adjust the city and highway estimates to account for higher speeds, air conditioning use, and colder temperatures.”
And:
“High Speed: Represents city and highway driving at higher speeds with more aggressive acceleration and braking.”
The EPA chart for “High Speed” included at the above link clearly shows speeds over 65 MPH & some “more aggressive” acceleration(s). Absolutely not a constant 65.
Since ( again \ still ) we do not have any real world reports from actual drivers of production G8s, we can only speculate – and my speculation ( guess ) is based on the following, several specific numbers:
Published GTO EPA numbers as they were at the time built.
Published GTO EPA numbers as they would have been under 2008 MY testing.
A comparison of known GTO & G8 trans. gearing \ final drive ratios & resulting RPM in highway cruising.
The fact that DoD \ AFM is included on the G8.
And the fact that although I do believe ( based on thousands of miles of driving a 2005 with ) GM’s DoD that the whole engine \ trans. \ final drive gearing and DoD calibration was specifically selected to maximize EPA MPG – to some detriment in the ‘real world’, for those ( like me ) who often drove at highway speeds above those included in the ‘old’ EPA test.
Where the G8’s package is likely planned & implemented with the 2008 standards in mind. And highway speeds & acceleration rates more closely resembling what I often utilize, in my real world driving. I certainly hope so, at least.
We shall see.
- Ray
Some GTO numbers:
Pontiac GTO 8 cyl, 6 L, Automatic 4-spd, Premium
Under 2008 standards \ tests would have been:
A4 14 \ 19
14 city
19 hwy
Actual stickers were:
A4 16 \ 21
16 city
21 hwy
The GTO had no DoD \ AFM.
The GTO automatic was a 4 speed w/top ( fourth \ primary highway ) gear was 0.7:1:
Overall ratio: 2.42:1 ( final drive ratio: 3.46:1 )
G8 GT V8 A6 w/top ( sixth \ primary highway ) gear is 0.67:1:
Overall ratio: 1.95:1 ( final drive ratio: 2.92:1 )
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
as it is on Chrysler's 300c as well - and it doesn't really work as 'advertised' on that car either - the car will not hold a reasonable highway speed with the DoD engaged or on any semblance of hilly terrain. 14/19 I'll believe (roughly what the 300 has been doing) it's the 24 that would require a 120 mph tailwind, or a really flat freeway that it is still possible to drive 60 on.
DoD is nothing new BTW - those of us that have started to lose our hair will remember the Caddy V8-6-4s of the 80s that was a disaster and didn't last long. A 'gimmick' then - although the technology involved is certainly much more advanced - some things apparently never change.
What is this ......a 2003 model year G-8?
You'd think GM with a brand new model would want to be on the leading edge of electronic design.....not on the lagging edge of a 5 year old typical GM "has been" vehicle.
NAV and blue tooth have been an available feature on drivers' cars for years and both are typically commonplace.
Obviously GM mgmt is still back in the 1990s and will always be blaming unions for their woes even the problem obviously is the CEO and managers that know nothing about what America wants.
I have a a 2003 DTS with NAV and night vision which was a rarity at the time, even though NAV then was common place on Euro and Lexus cars. The Caddy salespeople at the time couldn't even demo it. They still have the mindset of 75 year olds in bench seats, and so does GM as it is still in the 1990s.
I had considered this car because I wish to support the USA and purchase a contemporay high performance sedan ........ yet I'd now feel as though I'm regressing if I bought it. The problem with USA manufacturing are the incompetent corporate managers that are 20 years behind the times.
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
Perhaps GM is attempting to sell On-Star, except IMHO it is not a substitute for an effective Nav system especially when you consider the cost of a yearly subscription. Besides I prefer controlling what I want when I want it and not through an external voice system such as On-Star. I currently have built in nav in a Caddy and an external Magellan that I use in my truck and wife's car. The Magellan has fewer quirks and is much less costly than the built-in.
Now you can buy a Magellan, etc. nav system that is just as functional as a OEM system for only $400. Actually it is far more functional as it can be used by the driver or passenger to query the system while the car is in motion. The downside to an add-on is that they normally don't have dead reckoning which tracks location by speed and gyroscope when a GPS signal isn't available as in a tunnel or in a city with tall buildings.
If the mfrs want to protect against liability yet make their NAV functional then put an interlock in that allows the passenger weight on the seat to make the system operational when in motion. I despise having to stop my Caddy to use the NAV to find the nearest hotel or rest..
Same old story...that's why the competition is killing them.
Regards,
OW
I won't let the lack of GPS stop me from getting a car but it's just something that would make it a complete package IMO.
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
Interesting "updated" 2008 mileage numbers for the GTO; I averaged 20 mpg in daily driving in my 04 A4. I would expect my mileage in a G8 would be 15-20% better than the GTO.
Another advantage over GTO mileage will be running on regular instead of premium. That's the equivalent of getting 7-10% better mileage all by itself.
“6-Way Power Seat Adjustment
(if equipped)
The power seat switch is located on the
outboard side of each front seat.
• To move a front seat forward or
rearward, move the switch forward or
rearward.
• To adjust the height of a front seat,
move the switch up or down.
• To tilt the position of a front seat,
move the switch in the desired
direction.”
Also:
Seatback and Lumbar Adjustment
The recline knob and lumbar adjustment
knob are located on the outboard side of
the seatback.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
A discussion of G8 marketing ( so far ) I expect will be fruitless.
Your point regarding the seat adjustments may be valid.
I have yet to see the actual ‘slick’ G8 sales brochure – though I understand that some dealers do have them.
I do recognize that there are significant difficulties with launching a car when it is produced overseas & shipped here across the ( wide ) ocean.
Yet it seems to me that GM \ Pontiac could have learned a thing or 2 about the logistics of such a launch from the GTO and from the many other import models launched each year.
Some potential buyers may well see this car at an upcoming auto show, grab a brochure & reject the G8 out of hand based on a quick scan of features list. Possibly discarding the G8 due to:
No integrated XM.
No HUD available.
6–way instead or 8 or 10 or 12-way adjustable seats.
Or some other item(s) that some potential buyers want \ need,
And that are missing at launch . . .
Crossing the G8 off any list of potential purchases based on the ‘check-list’ sort of preliminary evaluation seems a bit superficial & unfair – but I have actually “worked” a few auto shows here in Atlanta. And I have seen some ‘interesting’ reactions from people after spending just a few seconds in a front seat or scanning a window sticker.
One challenge for marketing of the G8 GT \ V8 ( I mean no disrespect in any of my posts regarding the V6 version – it is just not of any interest to me ) is that some people are likely to look at the GT as a ‘cut rate’ BMW 550i. And some will see it as a BMW ‘wannabe’.
I hasten to add immediately that I see no way that GM \ Pontiac ( or any manufacturer ) can provide ** ALL ** of the goodness built into a $58K+ MSRP BMW, for something in the low $30K range.
In the acceleration category, it appears ( darn the embargoed actual times various publications will likely release in a few weeks ) that the G8 GT will be quite close to the BMW 550. The trunk is larger.
The seats have what I see as ‘adequate’ adjustability – for me.
The key goal of marketing the G8, it seems to me, ought to be to convince people to go to a dealer & drive one.
I believe that most first year sales of the V8 version will be sold based on dynamics ( acceleration, transmission behavior, handling, ride, etc. ) and the interior being ‘good enough’. However one defines that.
Does this mean that bringing ( ‘rushing’?? ) the G8 to market, without items that some want or need, is a mistake?
I do not know.
I expect that the 2009 model year ( whenever that starts for the G8 – soon?? ) may bring one or 2 of these items.
Is it a mistake to launch with so few G8s ( V6s or V8s ) that many dealers will not have one. Possibly for months. And then, smaller dealers ( like where I bought my last Grand Prix ) may see only a very few for the whole rest of calendar 2008.
Again, I do not know.
Pending Edmunds ( and everyone else’s ) reports & my own opportunity to test drive one, the jury I still out on whether or not this will prove to be My Next Sport Sedan.
And it appears that with a relative few at dealers, it may be somewhat difficult to find somewhere to test drive a GT \ V8 – anytime soon. I drove about 200 miles ( round trip ) to test drive the first Grand Prix GXP delivered to a dealer in Georgia. Because I wanted to test drive one, right then – and make some decisions. Right now, although I am very, very curious – I can wait to make a decision.
For those who have been waiting for a RWD V8 Pontiac, and want or need ( lease ending soon, etc. ), I can see ( and I have read ) a level of annoyance & frustration with this whole situation.
We shall see how this plays out.
How initial sales go.
Etc.
Sounds like these should actually appear at ( some ) dealers within 30 days or so.
As I have said here before, I applaud GM \ Pontiac for bringing what appears to be a very good, V8 RWD Sport Sedan to market. I am watching with great interest, but no great urgency. . .
- Ray
Will drive some distance again, if required, for opportunity to test . . .
-mike
No mention on the 6MT in there though
Dealers are already tagging their vehicles as of Jan. 31, 2008. They will be able to tag their allocated amount for January and do so again for February. Tagging will end Feb. 27, 2008 for the first shipment, so if your dealer was unable to tag what you want the first time around, they can for February allotment.
Quoted GM Tagging Announcement
GM is pleased to announce that the initial tagging for 2008 MY G8 units will begin on Thursday, January 31, 2008 and conclude on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 for monthly tagging allowances based on the January consensus.
If a desired pattern order is not available at gminventory.com when tagging, please check back within your monthly tagging period since the site will be updated regularly as vehicles are shipped.
"Pontiac also says the G8 GT will do zero to 60 mph in just 5.3 seconds and run the quarter-mile in 13.8 seconds at 101 mph."
I had previously seen the 5.3 - not the 13.8 @ 101
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S