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2008 Pontiac G8

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Comments

  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    okay guys, i made the leap this past week. turned in the leased g35 coupe and picked up a black g8 gt with premium package and 18 inch all season tires. got the car in a suburb of minneapolis. dealership had a 1k markup but they waved it. they had also put one of those stupid paint sealant packages on the car and i only gave them half of what they wanted for that. so, all in all my cap cost on the new lease was based pretty close to the msrp. not great, and i'm sure if i'd have waited a couple more months i could have gotten a better deal, but you know how it is!

    initial impressions after 400 miles of driving. very stable ride, nicely weighted steering, fairly quiet inside at speed, v8 has copious amounts of grunt when you put your foot in it, brakes seem appropriately strong, driver's seat is comfortable.

    couple gripes. the red digital displays are a bit difficult to read with sunglasses on, except for of course the oil and charge readouts which are very big and bright! gm's manual shift function doesn't work as well as infiniti's. my g35 would blip the throttle almost perfectly for downshifts...the 6L80E isn't nearly as smooth. and the headlights are nothing to brag about. they are okay, but could be brighter imo. and the car has a somewhat lumpy idle. otherwise so far i'm enjoying the ride!!
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    btw, if anyone is wondering about the AFM system on the engine, the only way i could detect that it (the engine) was running in 4 cylinder mode was a slight drone in the sound of the engine or exhaust.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,550
    There is also a display in Engineering Mode -
    if you are really curious....
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    how do you get to engineering mode? i've looked all over the manual with no success. also, i can't figure out how to display the oil life monitor...

    just trying to save ahead of time for the next oil change since the 6L takes 8.8 quarts to fill with filter change! ;)
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,550
    My understand is
    ( from [ very ] un-official sources )

    (Hold the enter button when turning the key on)

    Software Version
    GM Part Number
    Battery Voltage
    Battery Charge (%)
    Remaining Fuel (gal)
    Instant Fuel (gal/hr)
    Coolant Temp
    Speed
    Tach
    Tire Pressure
    Engine Oil Life (%)
    Parking Lights (on/off)
    Switch Voltage
    Current Gear
    Active Fuel Management
    Throttle Position
    Trans Sump Temp

    Self Test
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    that did indeed work. thanks!
  • athensathens Posts: 25
    I'm sorry but I have real doubts that the demographic group of 40+ year old professionals and corporate executives who buy M45s, (the few that are sold because the M35 outsells the M45 by 6 to 1), will be shopping a Pontiac G8 GT against an Infiniti M45. The professional or executive who is buying a car for conspicuous consumption will likely want to arrive at business meetings, at the country club which requires a $10,000 annual social expenditure, or at the courthouse for a significant case he is trying in a luxury marque car.

    While the G8 seems to about as attractive a piece of machinery as has been offered by American automakers in many years, the Pontiac never has been nor is it being currently marketed as a luxury marque. Just as the Chrysler is not a luxury marque. The G8 and 300C fall into that peculiarly American (Canadian & Australian) automotive category known as the muscle car sport sedan. Likely the only American make of car that directly competes with the M45 is the Cadillac STS Northstar (if you can call a car being phased out competition).

    That orthopedic surgeon and trial lawyer just might have some fond memories of a second hand Pontiac Sunbird or Chrysler K car, that they drove while in medical or law school, which ran rough and was prone to corrosion.

    To be sure the G8 directly competes with the Dodge Charger and Chrysler 300. It offers a RWD alternative to the FWD Toyota Avalon (Aurion which it competes with in the home Australian market) and the Nissan Maxima. Given the current state of the economy I believe the impact a offering V8 will have in this market segment is still being over-estimated by GM.

    The G8 GT may try to steal some entry level luxury buyers of Acura TLs, Infiniti G35s, MB C-class, BMW 3s and Audi A4s, but those cars are firmly entrenched in the market. Each has just been redesigned and offers similar performance in a true luxury brand. I can conceive the G8 doing the most damage in the market place to the Cadillac CTS. The last generation CTS brought out a V spec model with 400 hp and that car made little market penetration in its segment (against the E39 BMW M5).

    But to say the G8 GT competes with the BMW 550 and Infinti M45 (why not throw in the Audi A6, MB E-class, Lexus GS, and for good measure the new Jaguar XF) I find to be a fantastic claim.

    It's just in that same way that neither the Infiniti M nor even a BMW 550i directly compete with a Maserati Quattroporte or a Bentley Continental.
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    why does everybody over analyze the g8? the car is big, drives like it's much smaller and seems well built. gm seems to have finally built a decent rwd car...let's all just be happy about that!
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    This car is for folks who want an M45, BMW550, E-class, etc. But either can't afford it or refuse to spend that much coin on a car. So yeah it doesn't compete with them, but it's not meant to compete with them. I see this as a more common man car. The young professional, 30 something, union guy, etc. Who would not otherwise have access to those highline cars yet still wants those features. These folks aren't caught up in a name moniker, or a built in Navigation system (my garmin works great).

    That's where I see this car going. Folks who don't want a Maxima, Camry, Tarus, etc.

    -mike
  • athensathens Posts: 25
    The fuss is based on the FACT that American automobile manufacturers that had once made that transformed the automobile into everything from an affordable form of mass transportation to truly sublime products envied all over the planet have since relinquished that role to foreign manufacturers.

    In the 1960s American Cadillac Fleetwoods, not Benzes (except in German speaking countries), nor BMWs, nor Audis, nor Jags (except in the UK) were the choice of the tycoons and heads of state. I dare anyone to name one celebrity or head of state outside the US who currently drives a Cadillac in their native land.

    Current American made automotive products (including models made exclusively for the US market in the US by foreign car makers such as the Japanese and Koreans) have only one purpose. Making the manufacturer a quick profit and keeping Americans addicted to conspicuous consumption and that formerly inexpensive drug, gasoline.

    Jeremy Clarkson, the BBCs Top Gear host, though himself no a stranger to hyperbole, came to the same conclusion in his "Good, Bad & Ugly" comparison of American cars and SUVs in California. He posed a reasonable question: How is it that the nation that makes the Nimitz class nuclear aircraft carrier, the Trident class nuclear submarine, and the Space Shuttle, can get it "so wrong" that 5.5 billion other people on the planet will absolutely not buy our domestic made cars? Except for a few Vettes and the Ford GT.

    Manufacturers constantly use hyperbole such as comparisons to similar products beyond the market level of their own product to market. That is called commercial advertising. Even professional automotive reviewers will use hyperbole to extol the virtues of a product. Likely without such sensational comparisons, pure technical writing about what are basically machines might otherwise come across as ... well rather dry and technical.

    Again while the G8 GT is attractive and has some positive attributes, as many professional car reviewers have written "it may be regarded by some as the Wrong Car at the Wrong Time" for both GM and American consumers. Only time will tell but my personal belief is that GM (and Ford which also has a global presence) can do a heck and a lot better at making what American consumers need, rather than merely what their passing fancies desire.

    SEE:
    http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?revid=53137&indcriteria=ASSET_TYPE-A- - ffiliate+Review%2cBuying+Guide%2cVehicle+Profile%7cM-_40_%7cD-_8816_%7cY-_2008_%- - - 7cresultStructure-combined&revlogtype=19&makeid=40&modelid=8816&year=2008&myid=&- - - revlogtype=19&section=reviews&mode=&aff=national

    ALSO:

    http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?ASSET_TYPE=Affiliate+Review%2CBuying+Gui- - - de%2CVehicle+Profile&revlogtype=17&section=reviews&makeid=40&modelid=8816&year=2- - - 008
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,388
    One of the best posts describing the trend of US auto i've seen. Yes the G8 is GM but not made here. Just another example. They should advertise that which will drive up sales. It does not compete with BMW. Pontiac will NEVER compete with premium brands. Caddy is supposed to do that but the slide continues. The CTS is a great start but future offerings need to be world class not appliances with glitter.

    Why did I buy a BMW in 2006? Exactly what you said...US autos have morphed into non desirable appliances for both quality and design AFAIC.

    You can't tell me BMW, Audi and Merc-class cars can not be topped by the US. There is no desire to do so to date. That is what makes me so defiant.

    In the 60's Caddy was KING. Pontiac was KING. Oldsmobile was HOT. Chevy was PASSION. What the heck happened?? Greed.

    No passion, no sale.

    Regards,
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    However a lot of people don't care where the car is made, or if it's quality. Think Walmart factor. Inexpensive transportation, that's what a large portion of America wants. Unfortunately that's reality.

    -mike
  • athensathens Posts: 25
    More accurately that is the FANTASY that we Americans have become accustomed to for the past 30 years. Frivolous and disposable consumerism supported by high ratios of personal debt.

    NOW, as a result of living that DREAM, Americans and American businesses will see REALITY. A reality which this generation will likely have to pay for by working well into old age because they cannot afford to retire. All in the name of "Disposable Consumerism".
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    for me, the g8 gt was the right car at the right time. i didn't even bother looking at bimmers or mercs because in order to get the options you want...you are unloading at least 40k from your pocket...and always for a car that offers less room and barely better performance than the g8 gt.

    the g8 is the first rwd car from gm in a long time that offers performance, reasonable nvh and good driving characteristics all in an attractive package that lists for around 30k. it's the rwd performance bargain of the year imo!

    even though gm uses high brow bimmers in some of its comparisons, it's really the chrysler rwd cars that are it's competition.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,388
    This sounds like the perfect choice for you. Best of luck and health with your new ride.

    Regards,
    OW
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    I also agree with the post.

    And, your summation....GREED!

    While other countries look 5+ years out, and are willing to take a short-term profit hit for a long term gain, US auto makers look primarily at the short term.

    The proof is the recent re-introduction of low-mileage high performance cars when gas prices are rising exponentially. If gas prices stay at their current levels, all of these models will disappear in 2-3 years due to the limited sales potential.

    Technically, however, there is absolutely NO reason the US couldn't be leading the pack...if the manufacturers were so inclined....
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    i'm usually the last one to run to detroit's defense. however, when cars like the g8 and challenger, etc, were on the drawing board some 2 to 3 years ago fuel prices were much cheaper than they are now. not too many people expected gas to reach 4 bucks a gallon in such a short time. nonetheless, detroit did bury their heads in the high profit truck/suv sand, and recent energy cost spikes have really hurt them because of the declining market for said vehicles.

    but, anyway, the real reason for this post is to point out that the costs to engineer/produce the g8 were likely relatively minor. the assembly plant was already in existence in australia...and several other vehicles are built at the same plant; and on the same platform/chassis. therefore, gm is not solely reliant on the success of the g8 to make a profit off this platform. the pontiac division needed some excitement, and i think the g8 helps in those regards...even if it isn't the most thrifty vehicle around...
  • athensathens Posts: 25
    It is impossible that Big three Auto Manufacturers DID KNOW absolutely know this would happen three years ago!!! Or five years ago!!! Or ten years ago!!!

    The auto industry in the US merely wanted to continue to make profits using antiquated car designs until the moment our Government would drop the axe. This moment was inevitable. This was not the Myanmar cyclone, people.

    It has been a reality for the last 30+ years since the OPEC Oil Embargo of 1973. When we are constantly in a state of beligerency with the Arab nations and Russia ( and now Venezuela) who control the spigot on the resource which our large displacement cars and SUVs need what other result would any reasonable person expect.

    The Big Three have had to deal with it in Europe for 40 years because the fuel prices are so heavily taxed to offset their trade deficit based on oil importation from the Mid-east and to pay for public transport which can serve the vast majority of their population. Just look at the products that Opel, Vauxhall and Ford have offered there for decades. Fuel efficient. Else you pay a 35% tax (paid up front) and $2000 per year to register the car and another $3000 per year in insurance to drive a gas guzzler.

    Exxon-Mobil and Shell have had to drill into the ocean sea beds at depths of 10,000 feet for the past 10 years. Those companies used to pay $100,000 per day to rent the drill rigs. Now they pay $500,000 per day to lease the same rigs. That doesn't even include the per day cost to actually run the rig. You really believe the Big Three do not have access to this information or the geological reports?

    The Big 3 (and to be fair, foreign auto makers who exported mots of their gas swillers to the US) were just betting on our Government doing nothing about it because of their cozy relations and legislators living in the fantasy that Americans should have their fuel gulping toys and no one really cars about the state of public transport in the US.

    $4.50 per gallon gasoline, my friends, is NO GAS PRICE SPIKE. Considering that the per barrel price of un-refined crude oil has jumped by 100% since 2 years ago, we should really be at $5.20 per gallon retail. So Exxon-Mobil and BP and Shell are not deceiving us when they claim they are taking less profit now than two years ago on the final refined product. With OPEC predicting $200 per barrel costs we should be prepared to pay $5.50 per gallon by next summer.

    When the smoke alarm in your home goes off, you can smell the smoke and feel the heat of the flames, but you run to save your 30 year old beer can collection you are betting against the odds of surviving? This is precisely what the auto industry in America has done. And it has occurred largely because the American public preferred EXCITEMENT over ACCOUNTABILITY and RESPONSIBILITY. And the American auto industry was feeding it to the American public as it was financed by the consumers' tremendous personal debt.

    No matter whether an addictive drug is expensive or relatively cheap, the withdrawal will always be expensive.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,550
    “But to say the G8 GT competes with the BMW 550 and Infinti M45 (why not throw in the Audi A6, MB E-class, Lexus GS, and for good measure the new Jaguar XF) I find to be a fantastic claim.

    It's just in that same way that neither the Infiniti M nor even a BMW 550i directly compete with a Maserati Quattroporte or a Bentley Continental.”

    = = =

    I do not mean to suggest that the G8 GT is a ‘direct competitor’ to the BMW 550 or the Infiniti M45.

    Perhaps I was not clear.

    Basically, I see the G8 GT as providing a very large portion of the dynamic capabilities & related ‘goodness’ of the 550 & the M45 – at a relatively small portion of the price.

    Anyone who really does want ALL that the 550 or M45 offers ( I freely admit that the M45 has a ‘nicer’ interior, for example ) must pay BMW or Infiniti prices. This seems fair to me.

    If you want ( as I do ) the acceleration, handling, steering feel, braking and related aspects – in a package with comfortable & supportive seating for 4 adults – but do not also require ( or wish to pay for ) a plethora ( ? ) of luxury and amenities . . . well the G8 GT appears to fill the bill.

    It is certainly not that I don’t appreciate or see value in many of the luxury aspects of such sedans as the 550 & M45 – merely that one cannot buy a “strippo” 550 or M45. Meaning: a 550 or M45 with all the ‘stop, go, turn’ stuff, but without all the associated BMW-ness and Infiniti-ness.

    Although I am a professional,
    ( not a Dr. or Lawyer ) and although
    ( apparently, since I drive a $50K+ car )
    I can ‘afford’ a 535 or M45 – or even a 550. . .

    I ( strongly ) prefer the G8 GT’s approach.
    Would I buy mine equipped with a HUD & cooled as well as heated seats, if those were offered as separate options?
    Assuming a reasonable price: Yes.
    But for just over $30K, I am very happy with what the G8 GT does offer – and at the price point, I can easily live without what it does not offer.

    And that looks like my likely next vehicle – an ’09 in 4 or 5 months.

    YMMV.

    - Ray
    Never intending to call the 550 or M45 direct competitors . . .
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    personally i think the g8 gt will or does appeal to a larger audience than anybody might have expected. i already can think of two people who traded an infiniti and a bmw for a new g8 gt...
  • athensathens Posts: 25
    They traded in Infinitis and BMWs they owned to purchase a new G8? Wow!

    I don't doubt that those who constantly lease just to drive something unique every three years might try a G8 GT under a lease.

    I'd like to know how many will feel BUYING a G8 GT to keep for the next 8 years if gasoline prices continue towards $6 per gallon.

    GM cannot survive at its current level of expenditure (labor and debt included) relative to its market capitalization by producing niche cars at runs of 20-40,000 models per year.

    GM is not in the financial position of Porsche (cash healthy) which can afford to make a few hundred GT-2s or GTs.

    Of course it's not difficult to desire many niche cars like the Solstice or the G8.

    However the future of RWD in mainstream mass market cars at GM in North America is in real question now that the Zeta platform will only be used by the Holden Commodore/ G8 and Camaro . In its home market Holden's Commodore line is getting clobbered in sales by its FWD competition, the Toyota Aurion and the Asian market Maxima. The STS has been canceled and GM just announce it WILL NOT produce a RWD Impala and Buick off the Zeta platform as it had claimed. Which leaves Cadillac's CTS, built of the Cadillac exclusive Sigma II platform, as the only other RWD passenger sedan in GMs stable with a foreseeable future.

    As a bread and butter division Pontiac division has to sell a lot of bread and butter G5 and G6s to draw attention to the more exclusive Solstice and G8. And it hasn't been able to achieve that objective yet (despite the Pontiac G6 give-away debacle on Oprah). That's precisely why the LS-2 powered Monaro (re-badged) did not sell more than 13,000 cars in 3 years. With spiraling fuel prices and a slumping real estate market I believe that GM's future as a mainstream auto manufacturer future depends on whether it can sell hundreds of thousand of Epsilon II based next generation Pontiac G6s, Saturn Auras and Chevy Malibus.

    Again I see it as filling the same niche in the sporty mid-size sedan market as a previous American sporty sedan that I actually bought and owned for 8 yrs., the Taurus SHO. Mainstream mid-size sedan with high-performance parts added. Undercut the German competition by 30% in price. Except that now the same segment has much more competition from Acura, Lexus and Infiniti (and even Cadillac) which it did not have to face then and gasoline is 300% more expensive.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,550
    "GM cannot survive at its current level of expenditure (labor and debt included) relative to its market capitalization by producing niche cars at runs of 20-40,000 models per year. "

    My understanding is that GM is selling G8s
    ( under all different names ) world-wide,
    at roughly the current plant capacity.

    One open question is:

    "Can Pontiac survive?"

    With the replacement for the Grand Prix AND the Bonneville -
    that is production-constrained?
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ... The STS has been canceled...

    Any references?
  • white6white6 Posts: 588
    I have been and will continue to consider trading my BMW 335i for a G8 GT. I only drive about 5,000 miles a year, so the difference in gas expense (even at $5 to $6 per gallon) doesn't worry me.
    FYI, GM also sells the Commodore/G8 in China as Buick Park Avenue (considered upscale/on par with MB and BMW by Chinese) and in the middle east with a Chevy badge.
    Also, Cadillac STS and DTS will be consolidated into one Zeta-chassis car in a year or two... and will probably retain the DTS nameplate. GM also has under development the "Alpha" chassis, which is a BMW 3-series-size rear-wheel-drive vehicle to be shared by several divisions. Speculation is that this chassis will spawn coupe, sedan and, possibly, wagon/hatch variations expected to start arriving by MY 2012. They will be limited to 4- and 6-cylinder engines.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I am contemplating buying the G8 GT, and probably won't even finance it. Am also considering a used CTS-V but have to drive both and see.

    It'll be my weekend and summer car, my LGT Wagon will continue as my daily and the Armada as my extended family and Toy Hauler.

    -mike
  • athensathens Posts: 25
    You bought your 335i in the past year (the model has only been out since 2007) and you are trading it in??

    Or you leased it and are getting out of the lease on the 335i?

    While $5-$6 gasoline may not affect you, it will significantly affect the disposable household income of the average wage earner in the US (who earns $40K per year) who traditionally shops brands like Pontiac.

    A neighbor of some relatives who owns a large Mercedes Porsche dealership on the affluent North Shore suburbs inChicago emphatically states that the only product that is currently selling well at their dealership is the SMART car. There is an 8 month backorder on the SMART car.

    Since Pontiac has traditionally catered to the bread and butter American car buying consumer that wanted a little more sportiness than Olds or Buick offered but couldn't step up to Chevy Corvette territory, it is Pontiac's base clientele that will definitely be affected by the rising fuel costs. Gas prices are even affecting BMW's and Mercedes buyers. How else can one explain the sudden epidemic of threads on these and other forums which sport titles: "How will $4 and up gas prices affect you?" or "What kind of mileage do you get with your G35?"

    I hate to beat it to death but selling 20-40K large displacement RWD re-badged niche cars will not ensure the survival of the marque. Only 500,000 + G5 and G6s can ensure Pontiac's future.

    To move the Pontiac marque upmarket is commendable. Initially GM should have introduced an upmarket entry level car. The attempt to market the G6 as significantly upmarket from its predecessor, the Grand Am, has not worked well. Even the sharp looking Solstice didn't do the trick.

    I remain convinced that were GM to have introduced the next generation G6 on the much lauded FWD Epsilon II (see Opel Insignia) platform in North America, that would have laid that missing foundation needed to draw entry level luxury sporty sedan shoppers into Pontiac showrooms.

    BMW entry level E36 series changed that company's fortunes. That car's success (and relatively cheap gasoline in America) made the fantasy 650csi and the Z8 a reality.

    In its infinite (pardon the pun, not Infiniti) wisdom, GM in this instance has done the converse.

    Do you really think that the couple thousand Middle Easterners (looking for a car that is a bit of a novelty) buying Holden Commodores exported as Chevy Caprices brings the "Caprice name" to the market level of the Mercedes Benz S55 in say the UAE?
  • topgun7topgun7 Posts: 409
    "I remain convinced that were GM to have introduced the next generation G6 on the much lauded FWD Epsilon II (see Opel Insignia) platform in North America, that would have laid that missing foundation needed to draw entry level luxury sporty sedan shoppers into Pontiac showrooms.

    Can you guys take the discussion of the future of GM to the G5 or G6 board? As you mentioned, G8 is not the mass market car that provide the bread and butter of a pontiac franchise. But I fail to see how this discussion help me understand whether I want to buy a G8 or not. May be you guys can write to GM board of director and explain how they should have run their business? But what you are interest in discussing has very little to do with a msg board like ours here.

    I have an 05 Mecedes CLK 55 convertible, an 07 Infiniti G35 and an 04 Honda Accord. And our lease for the CLK is up in next month, G35 up in May 09 and I am interested in a G8 (may be..) to replace the CLK or the G35.. Just because you won't make the same choice, please don't make the assumption that other won't.. That is a job for Pontiac marketing department and again has very little to do with whether a reader of this msg board want a G8 or not.
  • emaleemale Posts: 1,380
    i agree with the above post...athens, if you have an axe to grind with GM...please go start it somewhere else. i'd rather talk about the g8 with folks who have or want one. i could give a lick less whether gm is doing the right thing or not in the grand scheme of things...
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,388
    Watch out for the old CTS-V rear end issue that I heard was a problem. I don't remember exact problem but there were some that broke and there was excess shimmy reported under hard throttle. Check it out.

    Regards,
    OW
  • jobfishjobfish Posts: 1
    Had to put something Athens mentioned straight. I'm a keen observer of the car scene here in Australia. The Commodore VE (Pontiac G8) has been a best seller since it was released 2 years ago .It tussles for the best selling car mantle with Toyota Corolla each month however I understand that the VE has held the number one spot for more months than the Corolla since its release. These two cars are quite different. The Corolla has great reliability & economy however it's crampt compared to the Commodore and much less fun to drive.

    The Aurion is Toyota's attempt to muscle into the large car segment in Australia, though it's really only a 6 cylinder Camry. The Aurion has slipped downward in sales here since its launch last year and it's now selling at just over half the volume of the Commodore. As far as the Nissan Maxima goes it's never threatened anyone in sales volumes. It has never made the top 20 best selling cars list in Australia. I personally think the Maxima is a good car but it achieves very modest sale volumes here.
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