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Chrysler 300M Starting/Stalling problems

124

Comments

  • ryand2ryand2 Member Posts: 4
    So I finally broke down and went to the auto shop and after replacing, my coil (4), battery,spark plugs, cam sensor and my fuel pump come to find out it was my crank sensor the whole time. So.if your 300m just cuts off while your driving you might.wanna check.that out before spending a bunch of money.
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    bronx300 : Drop your entire mailing address into : ([email protected]) - without brackets , and I will send you the entire 99-04 300M Chrysler Service Manuals in the mail asap.

    You will not be sorry you did , as I will NOT use your address for anything else , nor share it. These are Technician Service Manuals , that specifically instruct the technician what must be done , what is involved , every single facet of a diagnosis and / or repair. You could expect to pay hundreds of dollars for these , as they are completely thorough , and NOT knockoff's , they are direct from Chrysler and contain authentication certificates / application documentations. They are complete copies off of the design bench.

    Whereas , you will NOT be able to flip through them like you might a Chilton or Haynes manual. Using Adobe Reader 9 etc. , you will notice sections as large as 6000+ pages. Huge , huge manuals which include everything from troubleshooting to schematics.

    Depending on your location , I have a copy already made , so you could have it (free) within a week or less. I originally made a copy to ensure that I didn't lose it from my computer , which would be a great loss. I'll flip it into the mail as soon as I get the information required to do so. I gaurantee you won't believe how much information is in these manuals.

    I have had these manuals for over 6 months and still don't have the time to figure out an approx. volume size (over 10,000 pages at least).
  • mike1982mike1982 Member Posts: 1
    Hello my 300 will not start.It turns over but wont start up,IDK what to do. I came home from work one evening filled up with gas parked it for the night,next day will not start tryed everything what should i do?
  • loualloual Member Posts: 4
    I turn key so the dash lights come on and the dinging sound starts.
    Do nothing until dinging stops.
    Then turn key to start car.
    Also I use a bottle of fule line cleaner about $8 each tankful
    Above works for me.
    Good luck to you
  • vanessanvanessan Member Posts: 2
    Hi,
    I have a 99 300m with 230,000 miles on it. When i drive long distances say like a half hour away from my house and back it won't start if i go to turn it off and then back on. I try to turn it on and the car wont roll over. I can't even do errands in this car because of this. Lately it has been happening frequently. I am so afraid i will get stuck i wont even turn my car off at the gas station because this has happened to me there before. Sometimes i can get it to start if i pump the gas pedal while turning the key in the ignition. It will only start if it sits for like an hour or so then i can get it to start. The check engine light comes on every now and then when it happens, then goes away eventually. I was told it was the fuel pump from a friend who had a similar problem. Help, what is this??
  • nrjyzrbunnynrjyzrbunny Member Posts: 3
    I have been having this problem since July 2011....I read somewhere that if you turn the car off and then turn the key on and off about three times in succession, without actually turning the key far enough to turn the engine over, the car will start. I have done performed this remedy on three occasions and it works like a charm. I have not had to walk home recently.....only to return to my car an hour later and have it start. I have brought the car in and no one can seem to find anything wrong with it.
  • vanessanvanessan Member Posts: 2
    Thanks, i will have to try this. Hopefully it works for me!
  • gottahavswaggottahavswag Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2000 300m one day I go to start the car and it started right up and died. So I tried to start it 2 more times and it started and died right away. The starter tested good. I checked all the fuses and relays also. I checked the fuel and fuel pump. When I turn the key the only light that comes on the dash is the red oil light no abs light no battery light or anything. I got another ecm and it then started 3 times and died and then I tried one more and nothing just like before I changed it. The cars lights work and power windows and locks work. If it matters I do have a grey key with a chip. One guy told me it could be the chip in the key went bad can that be my problem. Please help.
  • morgan71morgan71 Member Posts: 25
    I remember I found a site that showed me how to turn the key 3xs without starting the car so that I could get the trouble code on the dash, it turned out my crank sensor was bad. Had it replaced along with the cam sensor and the car started and ran good ever since. Hope this helps.
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    edited April 2012
    Given your descriptions of the problem , you should be mostly concentrated on the fact that your entire dash cluster of sensor lights are not illuminating when the key is moved into the run position prior to actually starting the engine.

    The very first thing to do is to disconnect the fender ground connection and inspect the battery / including mainly it's cables. If the battery power cable is hard as a rock / unflexible , nearest the battery , it is time to splice a 12" section onto the cable terminals , or replace the entire cable. This can and does account for alot on a vehicle with a massive or sensitive electrical system. At this point , if this condition exists , there is no point checking any of the PDC relays or fuses. It is possible that your (ASD Relay) Automatic Shutdown Relay is working as normal , where the voltage is either inconsistent or inadequate. The ASD Relay is in the (PDC) Powertrain Control Center , where you will also find at least 1 power cable connected. It must be free of rust and corrosion. The PDC plastic cover should indicate where the ASD Relay is. Simply measuring a voltage at the ASD Relay contacts could tell you alot , but the ASD Relay itself must also conduct whatever voltage is input into it as well. Any time there is a fluctuation or problem in the electrical system , the ASD Relay shuts the system down.

    Given that the engine starts , that indicates that there isn't any "on engine" sensor problems , although there may be wiring problems / conductivity. Something as simple as a transmission position sensor , could also cause a fault in the electrical system , where the ASD Relay will be triggered. The transmission position sensor must pass the startup electrical procedure , as all of the sensors must. This is why it is very important that you see the maximum of lights light up when you turn the key to the on/run position. Starting by checking the battery fill and power output , and all of it's related cables and connections , can provide you with lights in the dash lighting up after you make changes. That would confirm why the engine is starting up , and then being shut down repeatedly.

    Bad battery cables are the most common reasons why electrical problems exist , and even a tester connected to the vehicle at a garage cannot perform properly , or display a proper diagnosis without adequate power from the battery etc. Usually the first 2 feet of both battery cables are the problem , as they are corroding at one end , and being heated by the engine/exhaust at the other within 2 feet. This creates a void where electrical current is irratic / inadequate / non-existent or too variable for the vehicle's electrical system to ignore as "normal".

    The worst case scenario I have ever seen hidden , was on a semi tractor , where 2 full feet of cables were stuck together as a result of friction between the 2 cables. Bare cable of 1 cable was touching the other full time and accounted for minor intermittent problems as well as a lack of electrical power. In a 4 battery linked system , everything worked but not reliably , where any problems were never diagnosed to any avail. They could only be temporarily improved. To think that those cables were making contact while over 300 gallons of diesel capacity was within a few feet , speaks volumes about actually taking any wrapping or securing apparatus from these cables to ensure they are in good condition where they come together. Assuming that a meter can tell you otherwise is not the answer , where the vehicle has had radio/amplifier/lighting and starting problems , usually coupled with constant battery and alternator problems. These sections are the heart of any electrical system.

    The effect is that the alternator voltage cannot get to the battery to maintain the battery's charge or state of charge , and the battery's voltage cannot provide the electrical system with a consistent and necessary voltage that is constantly monitored and regulated by electrical circuits/components/computers etc. The exact same symptoms many owners have can be repeated , by connecting a very bad battery to the vehicle and driven. No charging can occur regardless of any electrical cables or wiring , due to a faulty battery. This makes it so that your dash lights may be dim , your turn signals may not function correctly (they do not flash simultaneously) , your radio/stereo is faint , your starter turns over slowly , your engine coil or coils do not produce enough power to allow a proper spark through the spark plugs to the engine cylinders/gas mixture injection etc. etc. The vehicle will probably chug , have poor braking or steering on vehicles equipped with electrical assist or sensors , and in general be a pain in the butt. Always having some sort of problem.

    The code for an ASD Relay problem or shutdown is : P1388 on a 2000 300m. In a case where the starter solenoid no longer clicks or is charged with power , where the starter was turning previously , you have yet another hidden connection that is faulty within the solenoid. You can determine this with a fully charged or new battery , where the solenoid suddenly clicks or the starter begins to turn. But after repeating the process the more powerful battery will allow you to determine that the solenoid has a short connection internally. Just 2 small wires can cause an immediate reaction from the ASD Relay , where no power will any longer reach the solenoid as well. Measuring the voltage to the solenoid is of no concern , what is of concern is that the solenoid is shorted , causing an ASD Relay shutdown. Even while the starter motor itself is still good.
  • loualloual Member Posts: 4
    I just learned that when you turn the key to on position the fule pump
    runs for 2 seconds. It was suggested I do this 2 or 3 times before starting.
    It's working.
    Someone mentioned cam / crankshaft sensors..I just got a code for one of them. I'm having them replaced also the O2 sensor.
  • ndavies1ndavies1 Member Posts: 1
    I was wondering if i could get a copy of the full Chrysler Technician Service Manuals ..let me know i am having a problem with my car not starting
  • morgan71morgan71 Member Posts: 25
    I would suggest you try looking for it on ebay or if you have a auto used parts yard where you can go and pull the part yourself, you may be able to find a 300m that still has a manual in it.
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    edited June 2012
    Please , DO NOT MAKE ME LAUGH ! A owner's manual is NOT what I am offering to other fellow 300M owners. I am offering the actual Chrysler Service Technician's Manual which are over 10,000 pages long and legal sized sheets. As it is right now I am working on placing the manuals for download in several places , but for now I will send the entire collection (this pile would be feet thick) , to anyone who provides me with their email address (no spamming intended etc. - forgotten) through my yahoo. Yahoo now provides provision for up to 2gb email attachments to be sent , with the NEW YAHOO version. The manuals compile into approx. 400mb , which the old classic version does not allow. I am also sending the manuals on disk by snailmail to addresses free of charge to let others see these things. For example : brakes / 1699 pages. Let me know if you want them as I cannot as of yet (too busy) to upload them to another place (link). Make no mistake , I AM GIVING THESE AWAY FREE. YES , I said "free" , and I don't spam , collect , save or use email addresses for my business. I have no time for that.
  • tfiltztfiltz Member Posts: 1
    I am interested in the free Chrysler Service Technicians Manual. Please of course.
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    I recently attempted to use the 2gb of new Yahoo Mail to attach the entire manuals (400+mb) , but discovered that the system only allows limited numbers of attachments (IE: 15 at a time etc.) , so attaching 40 or 50 seperate PDF's into emails is a chore. It's best to trust me , and send me an email containing your street or business address , so that a complete original copy on disk can be sent to you. This disk can then be loaded into any computer , copied , and used on a laptop in a garage etc. Otherwise , it is a very laborious task to send these by email. At the same time , I discovered a cost of just 1 original Chrysler Service Manual for the 1999 300M was $85 US dollars + shipping & tax. So... what I am offering includes 300M's / Intrepids & Concordes , for 5+ years in their entirety. I still to this day have no idea how many pages there are.

    Since I do not get many people asking for these indepth manuals , very unlike Haynes , where the information is NOT coming directly from Chrysler instructions , I can afford to drop these in the mail for those who do want them (FREE) for a few dollars / disk. From my point of view , that isn't much money , to be able to share what is definately very huge in terms of technical reading. All you have to do is send an email to : [email protected] - and include the destination address where you would like the disk to be mailed to. No solicitation , emails , offers , or any other spam type emails other than a confirmation directly from me will arrive in your email box , or at your chosen address. This is the best way , as my computer is creating flawless copies that work just as well as the original I have. Don't hesitate to ask for this , because I have only sent 1 disk via snailmail to date , to someone who absolutely wanted the manuals , and gave me an address to mail to. That's all that is required.
  • jatwil42jatwil42 Member Posts: 1
    Hello! We are going to go crazy if we can not start my 2000 300M. Timing belt, waterpump, 3 sensors, a relay so far have all been replaced. Everything is connecting. It just isn't catching a spark. It wants to start but just won't. It even has had the battery jumped off. I am desperate. Our family depends on this vehicle. Is there anyway that you could send me a copy of the manual you are speaking of? We have a Haynes manual but I don't why it's like it just isn't enough info. I thank you for any help you give in advanced. [email protected].
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    edited August 2012
    jatwil42 : Any time any engine that almost starts , sputters or whatever - I always do 2 things. The very first , is to pull out any spark plug and attach it to a clamping device (I make my own) which will allow you to rebolt the clamp onto a grounding surface (preferably the engine block) , so that you can have a helper attempt to spot any spark coming from the coil , when the engine is being cranked over. For safety's sake , it would be best to mark and remove all coils/spark plugs , so that the engine will not start in the process. Nothing like having an engine start with 1 wire sparking outside the motor. That's not really safe. In alot of cases , you can get a shock from the wire or boot too , it happened to me and nearly killed me. I was holding a wire off of a high performance engine which had the large size Accel Supercoil , and was running. I got out of the car to check a sputter , but should have shut it off before laying my hand on the inner fender , which just happened to be exactly where a wire had jumped off. I touched it and got stuck to it like magnetics. Good thing a friend was with me and pulled me off the wire. That took some guts , as those coils can produce up to 40,000 volts. In the case of the 300M , each spark plug has it's own coil , so each one may need to be done to identify a couple or a few or more coils/spark plugs which are faulty. This can also be done better at dusk or in dim lighting so that you can see any difference in the spark size (brightness). If any coil & spark plug combination produces a very dim spark (as opposed to any of the others) , chances are the coils for those cylinders are hardly working. That will cause an engine to sputter and be unable to run normally every time.

    The 2nd thing I would check is the fuel delivery system. (You must ensure that you check the spark of the plugs/coils first , as you don't want to be testing open sparks after you have opened the fuel lines , or you have gas fumes in your garage etc.) The order of testing is important. Without spark , or ample relative spark across all 6 cylinders , there is no need to question the fuel system until the spark is adequate throughout each cylinder.

    Alot of times I have found profusely blocked fuel line filters , which wouldn't allow enough fuel through them to be passed onto the injectors. This will create a no start or coughing condition at the cylinders. NOT ENOUGH GAS. On the 300M , you lift the rear seat and the fuel line filter is attached on top of the gas tank. If it appears brown or discoloured , it's been overlooked , and not changed , possibly since new. Change that in line filter and pay close attention to the directional instructions of the filter. Most have an arrow indicating the direction of fuel flow. Flow should obviously be directed to the engine.

    ***If you want the Chrysler Service manuals , it's best to get them on the CD I provide , so that you can view them in PDF format (Adobe Reader) , on a laptop or computer while you work on the car itself. About a week ago someone else took me up on my free offer , so I sent the entire 10,000+ page collection to Ohio for $2.80. It's free if the cost is under $5.00. All you have to do is send your mailing address , or the address that you want the disk to arrive at to me into my email box : [email protected]

    I will send the CD out to you right away.

    **One other note : is that the 300M's computer system etc. pays close attention , and relies upon the signals coming from each spark plug etc. If just 1 of the coils or spark plugs is bad , the engine timing etc. cannot be properly calculated by the computer (electronic system etc.) , to be automatically adjusted for best performance : IE : idling. This is also why it is of the utmost importance to stick with the factory recommended spark plugs etc. I use the NGK - Laser Platinum Premium spark plugs on my 2002 300M Special (3.5L High Output Special - dual exhaust) [ NGK # ZFR5LP-13G spark plugs] Any decent parts store will caution you not to try different spark plugs , as they have had returns because of poor to bad performance. The proper spark plugs for your engine should be on the radiator / hood latch support decal. If not , check with a Chrysler dealer etc.

    Good luck
  • jacksyakjacksyak Member Posts: 1
    Starter problems solved -Now!!!

    FIRST --THE BATTERY : Charge the battery fully. See if car starts.
    2nd Clean the battery posts taking care not to reduce the size of the posts, negative post in particular
    3rd Most important -- clean the negative ground sites.. that means take a wire brush, clean off all paint, dirt, grease to the metal surface!!. Clean the negative ground site on all the negative cables, connections, including the fuse box and if possible the positive cable sites thoroughly. Spray hair spray over the connections sites when finished. ( has shellack in it -prevents corrision)
    3-A if car starts ck battery fully ,,see if alternator is charging - a freebie @ auto zone!
    4 start car.
    5 If starter is turning over, not starting -- replace the starter relay in the fuse box !!
    .6 start the car.
    6.-A If not starting starter is cranking engine push accelerator to the floor !
    Hold accelerator to the floor cranking engine 20 seconds. Stop,, wait 10 full minutes start car if car starts you have injector issues or sensors
    7 ,if not starting ,,starter is working ,, disconnect the negative cable,again.
    wait 1 full minute -reconnect this clears sensor codes. if car starts its a sensor problem
    8 if car does not start fuel pump may be defective and/ or fuel filter
    put your nose to the end of the car exhaust area --smell any gas? If not fuel pump problem.
    9. You smell fuel not starting ,, take a spark plug out be sure to ground it on the engine,,,see if a park is seen. If not ck the coils .
    10. if spark is seen ck plugs if not ok-- replace plugs with Champion plugs.(OEM)
    11. car still does not start ,, recharge battery,,
    If it starts most likely car starts when cold,,, either starter relay or injectors are bad.
    If when car is hot when it stalls you have problems , ck the EGR valve this is under the windshield wiper are ,, a pro mechanic needs to do this as its hard hard work.
    11.A injectors when hot can leak fuel,, the fuel rail has to be depressurized
    by pulling the fuel fuse & cranking the engine for 20 seconds Then you can take out the fuel injector line after -- you take out the windshield wiper cowling ck for leaks by pressurizing fuel rail injector line , ( keep under pressure for 30 seconds looking for leaks.
    12 None of the above apply ,, ck computer codes ,,gas cap,, cannister codes.
    13 its time for the stealership, as most likley the ECM is shot!!
    Crankshaft sensor ,camshaft sensors can be faulty ,, ck with Auto zone if you can most often these are ok, they go at about 100k so look at your mileage. codes should have shown up if car is running.
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    edited October 2012
    To clarify what it means when your starter , just clicks - it means 1of2 things or both are wrong. Firstly , the starter solenoid (which is primarily , just a switch that is connected to your ignition key cylinder - which resides in conjunction with the starter motor inner mechanism) is worn out , or more often than not , the starter motor armature is worn to a point where it no longer turns freely. This is called : wedging or jamming (out of center alignment of the armature with the field winding contacts). In a starter there is an armature , very much like the ones inside of a drill motor , which spins whenever the solenoid contacts are fed power through the ignition cylinder key power connections. When the starter motor is worn , it can't spin freely or properly even if and when the solenoid contacts are working , which cause power to enter the starter armature. This is why you only hear a "click". Sometimes , this "click" will occur , followed by the starter actually turning the motor - and is a telltale sign that the starter motor is worn , or is about to fail soon (normally). But - if your starter has been installed incorrectly , where the inner worm gear is misaligned , you can hear the solenoid switch "CLICK" , because the worm gear is jamming. This is common , "IF" , the starter motor is not installed correctly. Normally , any time you turn the ignition key to the start position , you should hear the starter turn the motor - or attempt to. Clicking solenoids can be heard where the engine will not turn as well. This is why - clicking solenoid sounds on their own , are NOT NORMAL.

    Then lastly , besides both the starter motor solenoid , or the starter motor armature , there still remains the possibility that the starter has not been carefully mounted into it's proper mounting position. If a replacement starter assembly (both new - solenoid and starter motor inside a refurbished or new casing) are "THROWN" into a transmission casing mount without clearing any corrosion/debris/rust/unevenness etc. , the new starter can possibly jam when used. What happens in this case , is that the "worm gear" attached to the starter solenoid/armature , misaligns itself with the flywheel or any other type of connecting gear which turns the engine , when the key is turned to the start position. The worm gear is specially designed to spin towards the connecting engine turning gear , whenever power is fed to the solenoid/armature. When you release the key from the start position , power no longer activates the worm gear , thus the starter is then entirely in a neutral position , where the worm gear is also in a neutral position. You have to be wary of a mechanic who does not pay close attention to the alignment of the starter motor casing/s , so that they fit flush , where there is no odd looking connection made with the 2 casings. The existing casing , can be sanded or filed to ensure a good fit with any new starter , while you can have alot of problems if a new starter is "THROWN" into it's position carelessly. Even bolting the new starter on can be done incorrectly when the alignment was not paid any attention. When you allow this type of repair to occur , chances are - you might have trouble down the road , or just around the next corner.

    *In fact - this has happened to me with a Ford Dealership , where I got into my pickup after driving it approx. 50miles (after having engine work done where the starter had to be removed & reinstalled) [the starter was only a month old] , and the starter turned over , but wouldn't stop spinning - so the engine was running with the worm gear in it's engagement position with the flywheel. I was not going to drive it like that - so , being that even when the key position was in the run position - the starter was still running at a high rate of speed , I had to get out and take off the positive battery terminal cable to get the whole mess to stop. I restarted it , and luckily I got it home , where I released the starter bolts / removed the starter , and then "reinstalled" the starter - where there were no problems afterwards , for years. I even sold the vehicle , after a couple years , and the new owner , didn't have any problem either. To be specific : when you install a starter , 1 hand should be holding the starter casing/assembly in it's proper position , and pressing towards the mount (from it's end) [not from it's side etc.) , while the other hand is torquing the nuts or bolts tight. This is where it also means alot , as you have to do both simultaneously , without allowing the starter to shift. And - you don't just snug up or finger tighten the nuts or bolts - you have to be torquing the nuts or bolts while you are maintaining the proper starter motor position. Finger tightening while the starter is held from behind , is not enough , and then returning to torque the bolts - because the starter can still slightly shift where you didn't see or feel it happen. "Works every time".
  • aaron_laaron_l Member Posts: 3
    i believe this what u want service repair manual all parts in great detail, i found once for my car took 30 min find again.. if you have PDF of the owners manual anyone i could use that :D
    http://oskin.ru/pub/chrysler-dodge/manuals/Chrysler_Service_Parts_Catalog/CD3/97- -01/99LH.pdf
  • genenycgenenyc Member Posts: 1
    I would like to get a copy too, I'm so frustrated having changed cam & crank sensors and still not able to start my car. It started fine a few weeks ago. I just read about the key lockout issue and hoping it might be that. Can you use Dropbox it make the pdf downloadable.
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    Just this past 10 days or so alone , (8) owners have received the extensive 300M Chrysler Service Manuals from me - so , there is a postage cost involved in receiving it now , as the total sent is reaching 35~40 thus far. Plus the Canada Post Office nearest me , decided to make some money off of all of this - by ripping me off , and stating (charging) me , 50% more above the original and "LEGAL" costs - on their own private accord. This was confirmed by me personally at another Canada Post Office , who actually charged me less than the original costs I was paying (prior to the 50% hike claimed by my local office). I DO NOT provide the 10,000+ pages service manuals for download online - but , if you send me your name and the address where you want it shipped to (and agree to send me ample postage to my address in return to cover postage costs) , I will send you a copy of the manual compilation. Let me know at : [email protected]
  • tntalways1020tntalways1020 Member Posts: 4
    edited February 2013
    I have read thru this forum and have seen others with the same problem as i am having on getting their 300m to start. My boyfriend and i parked our car one night with it running fine and went out next day to start it and it wouldn't start. It cranks over but wont start. We initially thought it had froze up since that night it got REALLY cold and was first night it had done so since i bought the car. We had it taken to a friends garage and put it in the heat and it still wouldn't start. We started first with the spark plugs then the crank sensor. Took the crank sensor back and traded it for the cam sensor and still nothing. It isn't getting spark. Can anyone who ha had the problem as well please help? Been without a car now for two months.
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    tntalways1020 : The problem could be fuel related , or there is an Automatic Shutdown Relay inside the PDC (Power Distribution Center) - this is marked : Fuse & Relay Center on the plastic engine compartment cover. The ASD Relay , protects the entire electrical system from damage due to current overload within the system , plus it also requires a minimum of current flowing through it during startup and running modes. The ASD Relay relies upon throughput current that is calculated and determined within the vehicle's computer. While the vehicle's computer relies upon the sensors you mentioned , it must receive signals within parameters , to further pass that information (or current values) onto such things as the ASD Relay. It is best to begin at the battery terminals , because - all determinations of the electrical system rely upon the proper initial current coming from the battery. Then the power cable that goes directly to the PDC must be rust free and secure. While the PDC relays all rely upon that red cable that connects the entire PDC block terminals inclusively. This cable , could also cause the ASD Relay to malfunction , or trigger. In other words , the proper current must be received at all relays , for the system to function normally. Basically , power is fed to the relays , while the computer measures if the values are correct. If the values are low , high or not within prescribed parameters , the ASD Relay disconnects. Then no power goes anywhere. This works in conjuction with the security key feature , where - if an unauthorized key is inserted into the ignition that works , the engine will start , but will shut down after 2 minutes , because the key chip signal was not recieved (as a verified key) , it is determined as an "unverified key". This is a security / anti theft feature.

    If you read the post above yours , you will find that I am offering a complete and precise Service Manual for the 300M at no cost. All you have to do is send me the address where you want to have the disk mailed to , and return the cost of postage and materials to me to my address. More information is available to those who provide an address and are serious about having a full featured and authentic Chrysler Service Technician Manual - that explains everything from a manufacturer to dealership technician point of view. The manuals are 10,000+ pages in length , and come on 1 disk (fully intuitive - clickable , in PDF format).
  • tntalways1020tntalways1020 Member Posts: 4
    I have checked the pressure release valve located on the fuel rail and upon turning the key forward fuel will squirt all the way out of the engine compartment. This, to me, rules out a fuel related issue.
  • aaron_laaron_l Member Posts: 3
    possibly dead starter if have good fuel pressure pump seems fine test batter first see if cold cranking amps correct if is i wanna say starter issue
  • tntalways1020tntalways1020 Member Posts: 4
    I really appreciate the help from my first response. As far as a starter issue, i dont believe its that either because its turning over fine. Just not catching a spark to start the car.
  • luizhilarioluizhilario Member Posts: 1
    Can you send the disc to me. I own a 99 300m
    Luiz Hilario
    12 Dorothy st
    hartford-CT-06106
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    Luiz : I have your address and will have it sent out on the 28th. Due to postage costs and difficulties , all I ask is for you to send me back some stamps to cover the postage to my address. In the future , I don't think it's a good idea to post your home address online , even though I post 1 of my email boxes. I would delete it if I were you , which is why I trust using an email box , or private message , but this forum hasn't got that feature. It's on it's way. You will need to have WinXP or above to use the disk's contents. I don't collect any email boxes or addresses , but someone could.
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    Luiz : The CD was sent , which will work on any computer that uses WinXP or above (with the included Adobe Reader Program). The postage cost was : $4.29. You have : Adobe Reader 9.3 / 2000~2004 300M Chrysler Service Manuals & 1999 300M Parts Catalogue on the disk.
  • magnumforcemagnumforce Member Posts: 3
    If you still have the 300m tech service manuals. I would appreciate a copy. THANK YOU
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    I cannot respond to people who do not send a message to my email box , with the mailing address where they want the disk sent to. Since the mailing volumes are increasing each week , I will not send disks to those people who do not send me an email message. IF , I do not receive postage fees , I will simply have to ask for postage costs prior to sending the disks , which will increase the time it takes for anyone to get a disk.

    Please send a message to my email box ([email protected]) , and know you must pay a small postage fee to receive a disk , while you also provide a mailing address where the disk can be sent to. In the future , I probably will NOT respond to those people who don't trust that I am sending disks out to them , which also includes my full informations (where I have a risk).
  • manda2509manda2509 Member Posts: 1
    im having issues out my 99 chrysler 300m thermostat went bad replaced it replaced my intake gasket just not starting i have a ground wire that is touching but not sure where to look,its causing my injectors not to come on or turn over from inside the car.it will turn over from the fuse box!!!please help i absolutly love this car and would like to get her running again
  • homeautotechhomeautotech Member Posts: 1
    i have a 99 300m that was in a fender bender. the computer was damaged in the accident. I replaced the computer and tryed starting it but it ran and shut down 3 times then nothing at all.I had to get it recoded at a dealership due to unverifying key. now it will start and idle fine but when pushing the accelerator at all it stalls out. some time it will start right back up and idle again and sometimes it will start and stall. Ran a code reader on it and it is saying PO106 PO122 PO113 and PO405. Basically voltage low on sensors any help would be great. Also would love to recieve a disk for this vehicle Nicole Frazier 202 Tonkin St. Beaverton Mi 48612.
  • danimommadanimomma Member Posts: 1
    Ok so my problem is i have to jump start my car everywhere i go..i got a new battery a new starter a new altantor new cattery cables and i had someone look at it they know its not the battery or the altantor and or the ground wire...doea anyone know what it is...also when my car gets started the airbag light comes on and right after that the check engine light comes on and all my gauges go to 0. The only one that works is my gas gauge.any tips or advice would be much appreicated
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    edited April 2013
    I have heard this before , and only experienced the same dead battery scenario with FORD. No matter what you do , the battery keeps dying. The very first success I had with this is to consider what type and power of battery you are replacing or installing. Replacing a battery which is not completely suited to the vehicle (OEM or not) , is a mistake. Replacing the battery with the highest possible CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) is necessary. The reason is , that on an older vehicle , the wiring harness has aged , and may not have been of the highest quality to begin with. Taking this into consideration , you could even test a 1000 CCA battery , which will do a few things to prove that such is the case. Firstly , when the 1000 CCA battery turns the starter and the aged motor , it will take less from the battery - regardless of whether or not the engine starts quickly or it takes a few turns. This means , that the alternator will trickle charge the loss of power back into the battery as normal at a higher battery level. The opposite of which , is that the battery is more drained , where the alternator and it's voltage regulator automatically set themselves to run at fully charge , for however long it takes to replenish the lost power (energy) back into the battery. My Ford pickup did just that - where the battery light kept coming on , and it wore out starters and alternators - until I put a 1000 CCA battery into the battery box. After that it was ok for years. So , what we are really considering , is the calibration of the OEM battery to the entire system - not just the starter , or engine application. With an older vehicle , this may be the only way to even be able to get any results to verify that this is the area that is not being considered or realized. Obviously , if things suddenly work for weeks / months or years on end , then the battery calibration was poor in respect of the vehicle's components. If this doesn't work , then there must be a battery power drain somewhere - a full time constant drain (short) would be the answer. Somewhere , there is a wire touching the frame etc. Plus , there are other electronic modules to consider : Like - THE CAB / THE BODY CONTROL MODULE ETC. Even the computer could have a constant short in it.
    Within all this , you have to consider that the alternator is NOT a battery charger , it is a battery MAINTAINENCE DEVICE ONLY. Which coincides in theory , that it can't improve a battery that is abnormally being drained. All it can do is trickle charge the battery (even when it is in full charge mode) , at the level in which the battery exists. Sure , a battery will charge up , but it's condition (a case where you test to see if the battery is as good as it was before taking power from it) . Alternators are not capable of renewing lost battery condition , they are limited - or else they would burn up the battery when the rpm's are high.
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    edited April 2013
    There is 1 other case , where the battery is constantly dying , even after having the vehicle thoroughly checked throughout by dealership diagnostic / electronics (DRBIII) testing. In a few cases , something as simple as a burned out light bulb can cause a constant power drain on the system. This is usually found in the front or rear turn signal bulbs , where they have 2 filaments. 1 filament in the bulb is for a marker or parking light , and the 2nd (usually the filament is made thicker to create a difference between the parking bulb brightness and the signal light brightness and reliability - the flashing on and off functions) is for the signal , both encased in 1 bulb. What happens is , the turn signal or the parking light filament burns or breaks at the very end (the contact points) , but is still attached on 1 side , and is strong enough to remain that way. Then it actually touches the other filament inside the bulb (usually shorting the parking lights constantly). When you have daylamps , this can be common because of their extensive useage during daylight hours , where some parking/signal or individual bulbs (which have dual filaments in 1 bulb) , get alot of use automatically. So... any time you have electrical problems , you should test the signals and all lights firstly , to avoid having this scenario hiding behind a lense where you can see it happening or existing. I learned the hard way , I fould this after hours of toil. Basically as a last resort , or in a mood where I couldn't find the problem. I was surprised to say the least , that after changing the bulb , the problems were gone.

    Further , you can also find the same problems with the dash dimmer switch , where the rheostat switch has a short , and is effectively always on- even though the interior lights are not effected. A rheostat switch is a wire wound around a non-conductive material , which allows more current to flow at it's beginning end , and less at the other - for example. It is much like a coil . But if the adjustable metal slider/contact plate becomes burnt , corroded or otherwise , doesn't ever disconnect at the rest positions (off) , then this can occur. This was more prevalent with the older vehicles where the headlamp pull switch had a built-in rheostat dimmer (which would dim the dashpanel lights). So , it can still happen when the 2 are seperate units. This is difficult to determine , unless you replace the dimmer switch with an absolutely new or working unit , and see that the battery no longer drains. When the units are encased in plastic , you have no real other choice than to measure with a meter , but the meter can't show you that it is worn inside. This is very much like if you were to hold a wire in a wiring setup , where a bulb is lit. But the bulb sometimes doesn't light , even though the wires are connected (drawing power , but not lighting). Bad connection , components. Basically , if you left all of your lights on , or your interior lights on - then the battery would suffer greatly. Even when they didn't light up. A low current flow , low enough so the bulbs are not reaching a level where they light up.
    With this in mind , someone who changes the battery cables can mistakenly attach the new cable to the battery positive fuse link (which is corroded and not properly conducting) , thereby reducing or eliminating the positive connection flow of current. This fuse link gets very hard , and should be replaced if a continuity test shows that the fuse link connection is intermittent or non-existent. Intermittent means , sometimes current flows and sometimes it doesn't - even when 2 meter probes are touching it's bare surface - with the meter on the ohms scale , or in continuity mode. While the 2 meter probes are in direct contact with the bare fuse link material (wire) , hold 1 probe still - and slide the other probe along the bare wire. If the meter jumps , sways up and down (the fuse link is not working correctly). You should be able to hold 1 probe firmly on the wire , while sliding the other - while the meter reading remains completely constant. Just like any new piece of cable or bare wire will.
  • tangomiketangomike Member Posts: 5
    Searching for the keywords in the title of this post brings up pages of forum threads dating back years, some of which duplicate approximately what I'm seeing, but many do not. I'm posting this in the hope that someone can do more than my local Chrysler dealer, who basically says that without looking at the car when it malfunctions, they can't do anything. Which, under the circumstances, means that I'm out of luck, and here's why.

    First start of the day is always fine. At some point later, and it might be after a series of short trips running errands, or after sitting for a few hours, the engine will turn over but will not start. I'm no mechanic to speak of, but to me that means a problem with fuel, spark, air, or maybe the infamous ECM/PCM. None of these incidents ever throw a code, so I assume that it's not (likely?) to be a computer-related problem.

    Generally after about 10 minutes of sitting, the car will start right up and might do so multiple times for the rest of the day. Which tells me that this isn't a problem with the battery, battery cables, starter, solenoid, etc., which don't fix themselves by being left alone for ten minutes. It also means, of course, that by the time a Chrysler mechanic looks at it, the car will start fine. "Could not duplicate" is not going to help.

    It could be a spark issue, but not with an individual ignition coil-on-plug, which wouldn't keep the car from starting, and all of them wouldn't fail at the same time. To me, that means it might be a component that controls the spark to all the cylinders.

    It could be a fuel-related problem, and I've read comments about trying a flood clearing start, which if successful might indicate a bad fuel pressure regulator or leaky fuel injectors. The next time it happens, I'll try that.

    The primary frustration comes from seeing ideas in the forums that appear to be totally unknown to a Chrysler service rep, and I find it incomprehensible that Chrysler doesn't have a better answer than, "We'll have to look at it when it's happening." Over the years, multiple Chrysler service personnel have dealt with this problem and fixed it.

    Can anyone direct me to a source of information that I can take with me to the dealership and tell them what they need to do to troubleshoot this problem without stumbling around in the dark?

    Thanks in advance for any assistance.

    Tango Mike
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    When it comes to intermittent starting , the problem is usually electrical , but the problem can also be related to other things at the same time - such as an inadequate fuel flow etc.

    If you are interested , I have a 10,000+ page authentic Chrysler Service Manual , which completely explains all systems & components (their locations/functions & purposes) , which I provide on CD by mail ONLY. Because of dishonest forum users (who would like to have this TOTALLY FREE) , and not even pay for postage , it is only available by sending $6 to my Paypal email address : [email protected] . As soon as I see a payment made , I am notified and send the disk out to the payee the following business day. But , to ensure you receive the disk to the proper address , you should also send your correct postal address to the same email address. This will give you uncommon informations which you can refer to when dealing with any dealership mechanic/technician/supervisor etc.

    As far as your vehicle goes (or anyone's for that matter) , if you bring your vehicle into the appropriate dealership in poor condition throughout - you are generally in for a rough ride from your point of view - regardless of the manufacturer or dealership. This is where the NON-DEALERSHIP garages live and breathe their incomes from (right into their own pockets in some cases). It's always best to know what you are talking about through positive and authenticated knowledge on any subject dealing with your vehicle. Dropping your keys off and trusting someone who is charging you up to $100+/ hr. for labour alone - can sometimes leave you on the defense of your actions. For example : BMW charges $500.00 to do a safety check /inspection (which does not mean your vehicle passes this inspection , nor is qualified to receive a safety inspection certification).

    Any decent garage will ONLY have mechanics who work on vehicles who DON'T act like they know it all , and have seen it all. They are : the "bring it on types". Yet , if you frequent those garages and talk to some of the customers (who do pay their bill , who do take care of their vehicle and don't expect it to be an F1 racer on a daily basis) , you sometimes find out that their informations and their actions are not only incorrect , but they laugh at customers who are struggling to pay the bill etc.

    Let me give you 1 example : I was in Michigan and I had a problem with a vehicle which was not my own. It was a company vehicle. The air conditioning clutch was burning out repeatedly. After driving this same vehicle from Quebec , the first time , the air conditioning compressor clutch had to be replaced. I told the mechanic (who was working for Penske , and had the service contract for the vehicle and did a good job of maintainence - which also included a wash bay for their contract customers) , that I thought the air conditioning compressor was the problem itself , because the compressor heated up far too quickly , within a minute of startup. This , created an environment where the clutch pad was overheating (being in direct connection with the compressor body). He shrugged , put on a brand new compressor clutch , and I was on my way. Then , it was gone (worn down to less than 1/8" of pad in Michigan within a couple weeks). Which had to be replaced again in Michigan. Then Penske asked me to bring the vehicle in because the manufacturer had decided I was right , and they were going to have to preplace the compressor itself. It was overheating , and the unit was completely replaced under warranty. Months later , while I was still driving the same vehicle for business , it was fine. And it was still fine after I stopped driving it , a year down the road. NO MORE CLUTCH REPLACEMENTS.

    On a second note in Michigan : I spoke with the mechanic who did the 2nd replacement of the air conditioner clutch pad , and he told me that : "it's a joke". He said that he makes more money on fleet maintainence , than he ever could working at any garage. Why? Because , all of the costs are sent directly back to the manufacturer , due to the work being done mostly under warranty periods (Fleet Leasing). Fleet leasing allows the manufacturer's customer to lease new vehicles , which are always under warranty of some kind. And he also said that , as a result , manufacturer interests are on the climb , in terms of the fact that they view and operate under the idea that they are making more sales this way. When in fact , they pay nationwide in the US , to any licensed garage , when a repair falls under warranty. This is a PUSH HERE type of operation , which does not support QUALITY , just QUANTITY. And this is also why , no 2 vehicles are identical anymore. Not to mention that every vehicle that comes in with the same problems , so he would only have to repeat the same things , over and over. There was not any mechanics involved. He laughed. Just replacements.

    Typically , you have to find a garage where the mechanic has still got that urge to learn , via fixing something. They value this type of thing , not just what they get paid , and how quickly. And when you have pertainent informations , you have all you need to find someone who will do the job based on : theory / application / success and proof. Trouble is : these guys are hard to find , and you will definately not see their garage at idle , at any time , on any day , any month - plus the horror stories are practically non-existent. Just lots of repeat customers , who are servicing their vehicles through a reputable repair shop / garage.
  • snowdaddy3snowdaddy3 Member Posts: 1
    Whenever I get my car up to speed and let off the accelerator, the engine goes dead. The car cranks right back up and runs fine just goes dead when you let off the gas. I've replaced the crank sensor and the camshaft position sensor but still the same problem. Any ideas?
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    edited May 2013
    This type of condition is sometimes related directly to having a dead or dying/corroded/dry cell within the battery. Each cell in a battery produces 2 volts , which is why the engine will start and idle , but when under full load the flow of current is interupted during (what is essentially : a constant speed or current feed requirement) any set cycling activity within the battery. This can also happen , when a really bad battery is used to start an engine , but when the accelerator is pressed - there doesn't seem to be any power. Which can lead to misdiagnosing the actual problem , as some sort of engine problem - while measurement of the battery fluids with a hydrometer shows that each cell is practically useless. ONLY the combination of the power of the 6 cells allowed the engine to be cranked and started. To test a battery correctly , you will need a hydrometer , and you also need to see that each cell has an equal amount of fill. The fill of a battery is 64% water & 36% sulphuric acid. The mixture is of the utmost importance so that the plates in the battery are not damaged and conduct between each other correctly. This mixture ratio must be between the positive and negative plates in the battery for electricity to flow , and for charging to occur. Corrosion between the 2 different types of plates is the enemy - and if you see corrosion on the plates , it's probably too late. The mixture keeps the corrosion to a minimum , but if you reduce the sulphuric acid content (by adding water) , you accelerate the corrosion , and you reduce the fill's ability to become "charged". In other words , you are measuring the equality of each cell - one to the other. Problem is - if you add water to a cell that is low , you will have effectively ruined the battery's fluid equality consistency. The best way to "top-up" cells in a liquid battery , is to use fluid from another battery (or buy sulphuric acid powder , which is mixed with water , and then added). This , in fact is the way that small (lawnmower and motorcycle) batteries are when you buy them - you have to mix the packaged contents with water and fill it yourself. This way , batteries can be shipped empty and are much safer. Your hydrometer should read 1275 , or an amount equal (or close thereof) , to each other. Never put water on it's own in any cell of a battery.

    Just because a voltmeter shows 12-14 volts (14 volts is the maximum , any higher measurement determines a "shorting cell") , when connected across the positive and negative terminals , that doesn't mean that you "are not" just measuring 1 good cell and a connection to the battery posts. You must check each cell's condition / fill level / and measure it's electrostatic charge with a hydrometer - to determine that the battery is either , good or not so good overall. In some cases , you can even find totally dead cells , which are chalk full of corrosion (don't work at all) , yet somebody said the battery is OK because 12 volts is measured across it's terminals. INCORRECT.

    The rule of thumb is : any time there is an electrical problem , the battery must be "tested" / checked. And NOT the lazy way , the professional way. There is also the possibility that a condition exists where the charging system is being shut down (for safety) , because 1 of the battery cells is bad. What happens is , when you get up to speed , only the voltage regulator is in control (between the alternator and the battery). Without a voltage regulator in the alternator (as you sped up , the voltage would soar with no control - burning up the battery) , so at highway speed , the alternator's voltage regulator reaches it's peak. But ... if there is a bad cell in the battery , a short can occur (where the computer etc. recognizes this and shuts the system down through the ASD Relay [automatic shutdown relay]. The ASD Relay works 2 ways. If the current to the ASD Relay is too low , the engine will not start , & if the current to the ASD Relay is too high , it effectively works like a circuit breaker , and shuts the engine down. It's a safety relay. This is a "current overload" condition.

    With all this is mind , you should also be aware that running the wrong sparkplugs in an engine can also cause these problems. The wrong sparkplugs can cause current calibration errors that the electrical system will react to. Too hot a sparkplug , "current overload" , too cold a sparkplug "inconsistent current". Both will cause the ASD Relay to trip. The correct sparkplugs are Laser Platinum , and their exact applicable type should be on a sticker on the radiator crossmember or available from the dealer. Any other applications have proved to be different enough to cause electrical system calibration problems - where (if you change the plugs , you must also reprogram the entire applicable electrical settings). You don't want to go there , as these settings can shorten the life of the stock engine , and are really for RACE applications only. So... changing to the wrong sparkplugs on these all aluminum motors is not a recommended venture. IE : stalling , running hot , poor acceleration , won't cold start , won't hot start , uncalibrated shifting points of the transmission etc.
  • tangomiketangomike Member Posts: 5
    I may take you up on the offer of the CD and I don't expect to get it free.

    On the other hand, I'm not all that interested in scouring 10,000 pages looking for what to tell a mechanic about how to troubleshoot the car. And for the record, the opening line in your third paragraph makes all that follows non-applicable to the question I asked. The car has about 40k miles on it and is anything but "in poor condition throughout."

    On Monday we took the car to a local mechanic after waiting three days for a return call from the service department at the dealership in response to two messages, which gave me even less confidence in them than I had before I made the calls.

    We handed the mechanic a written description and explained exactly what was happening. Based on that conversation, in which I made it very clear that effective troubleshooting had to include something more than waiting for the problem to occur, an event which might take a few weeks or more based on our experience with it.

    I just found out that their only tactic has been to drive the car around for the past three-plus days "with sensors hooked up," whatever that means, as if it's okay to keep the car until something happens. That's not the answer.

    Is there not a portable monitoring system that can be connected and left in place while we use the car as we normally do so that when it fails to start the next time, the monitor will record the event? That question will be asked when I visit the shop in about an hour. If it's the same old song and dance, we'll take the car deal with the problem until we can see our way clear to get rid of it.
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    edited June 2013
    I would suspect something to do with the throttlebody right from the start. Skipping steps , I might be inclined to have replaced the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) , as it's signal is sent to the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) - where that signal determines how the PCM signals the fuel injector pulse width and engine timing. Once there is a problem with these signals , and the transmission speed signal differs - the ASD Relay can be triggered. But , since these can all be effected by poor power supply from the source (battery / wiring) - I usually check all of the wiring and the battery first. Reason being , is - even a new part may malfunction due to inadequate current to these sensors.

    That said , if the Throttle Position Sensor is the problem - it's condition can be effected by a clogging or malfunctioning PCV Valve , which is located directly in front of it on the throttlebody itself.

    Quickly - my first thoughts would have been that : 1. The engine starts and runs (crankshaft and camshaft sensors must be good). When you take the car out onto the road and accelerate it is OK , until you try to hold a speed. 2. This indicates a problem with the throttlebody. In effect , this may be a case where the Throttle Position Sensor has a buildup of carbon etc. which makes it so that it fails to send a proper signal to the PCM at this much used point. Even if you simply removed the TPS from the throttlebody and inspected it (finding a buildup of carbon on it etc.) - this would be where I would start - a quick test. Re-run the car and attempt to hold a speed after replacing. At the same time , you should pull out the PCV valve , and inspect / replace it if possible. The PCV Valve , is a part that should be replaced according to the maintainence schedule (IE : certain mileage).

    If you had started there , and there was no difference (same problem) , I would definately suspect that the fuel pressure regulator / filter was the problem. Why? Because by pressing the gas pedal , you set the TPS signal to the PCM , which dictates (how much fuel , and at what interval [pulse / timing] ) , but with a clogged fuel filter , or malfunctioning fuel pressure regulator - THAT IS ALL THAT IS POSSIBLE. [Effectively , you are only controlling the speed of the fuelpump itself]. No constant or regulated flow can exist by electronic means alone (from the sensors). This would unfortunately mean that the gastank would have to be dropped , to replace the fuel pressure regulator , which has an integrally mounted fuel filter on it. The pump may be working , and the regulator may also be OK - but the filter is past being clogged (but collapsed). Blocking the normal flow of fuel. Which is what I first suggested , may be involved - "other" (fuel problems).

    This is also why I do not recommend that it is OK to pour aftermarket fuel injector cleaner or any other type of chemical into the gastank. The manufacturer service manual specifies the same advice. The only chemical I add to any fueltank is "gasline antifreeze" - which penetrates water molecules (causing them to mix with gasoline and be burned) , where prior - they were on the insides of the tank , in the lines , and possibly floating throughout. This gets rid of them , and is yet another possible fix.

    Given that a garage is attempting to fix the problem , they are limited as to the amount of "rudimentary" work they can do - due to labor costs. Which is exactly why - having a service manual , will even specify what checks should be done , other than with an OBD (Onboard Diagnostic) testor etc. And they give fault codes , which are only "related" to the actual problem. In other words , the fault code may have specified that the transmission speed sensor code was recorded as a problem to the PCM or ASD Relay (explaining the stalling of the engine). This is why I go rudimentary first , and then I go electronic. Pulling apart the air intake box / filter & the TPS & PCV Valve , would have been my first action (if the battery looked ok , and the wiring also looked ok throughout the PDC (Power Distribution Centre). Skipping directly to the throttlebody operations.
  • tangomiketangomike Member Posts: 5
    Thanks again for taking the time to respond, but the reply above relates to a different problem as reported by snowdaddy3, not me.

    My question remains: is there a diagnostic device or software for a laptop/tablet that can be hooked up and left in the car to record what happens when it fails to start on one of these intermittent events? Whatever is causing it doesn't throw a code and trigger the check engine light, so the diagnostic method has to identify the temporary fault in the component before it "fixes itself" in the typical 10-minute period.
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    edited June 2013
    You could drive the car while an OBD code reader is connected , but it will only show codes which are recorded into it's memory. Any codes recorded to the memory of the vehicle computer - is what the ODB reader is showing. It makes no difference. The only other alternative is to have the car checked with a DRBIII test unit. But , the same things apply. What you are asking for is : a reader that will pinpoint the exact problem while the problem occurs. It would be nice to be able to plug a car into that , as all repairs would be so much easier. But what would you say if that didn't fix the problem? I know that in your case , it makes it so that the car can't be used - but this is a weird thing to have happening anyways. It's almost a non existent problem. It's rare , and these are the worst to handle.
  • tbosstboss Member Posts: 2
  • tbosstboss Member Posts: 2
    2000 300M will only stall when warm and under load. will stall as soon as you put it in gear, or if the cooling fans come on. have checked MAP, TPS, replaced spark plugs. This all started after I replaced the timing belt and water pump. This is my sons car. He drove it home after belt replacement (freeway) it stalled when he got home and thought it was out of fuel. he then drove it freeway 5 miles and it stalled again. I brought it back on trailer next day. There was a 172 code. I have rechecked timing belt. the only way I can reproduce this is when car is warm (+180). Not sure where to go from here. Idle air control valve? why would this show up after the timing belt replacement? Ideas?
  • tangomiketangomike Member Posts: 5
    Update from tangomike, the original poster on an intermittent start problem: the car cranks but does not fire, then about 10 minutes later, starts up as if nothing had happened, and it may be a week or two before it happens again. There are no codes associated with the failure. It never happens on the first start of the day, and doesn't appear to be associated with temperature.

    A few days ago, the check engine light came on and we found a code for the cam position sensor, which we suspected might be causing the problem, by itself or in combination with the crank position sensor. The mechanic reported that the cam sensor appeared to be "slightly damaged," but I don't know what that means, specifically.

    Decided to replace them both, and I'll report back on the results in case anyone has a similar problem.
  • pitmanoeuvrepitmanoeuvre Member Posts: 68
    edited June 2013
    If you had a check engine light come on , and found a code that included the cam position sensor - it is definately time to consider what is connected in that area in terms of the battery and cables (and boosting positive posts). The battery positive cable is attached to the boosting post , and the cam position sensor is connected right there as well.

    Since the battery is in the corner , in a place where water drains , it's not just a case where you just need to check and clean the battery posts and connectors - you should pull the battery out and bench test it with a hydrometer , to check the battery's fill specific gravity. If you can't remember the last time this was done , chances are the battery is down , and won't be recharged by the alternator to a point above "fair" or "recharge". The alternator only maintains whatever level the specific gravity is at. I just pulled mine out this week and found it to be right at the fair & recharge level. When I charged it , the fluids went murky but it eventually charged up to the good level after leaving it on low charge overnight. I high charged it for 4hrs. and then left it on low charge overnight. When compared to a hardly used battery , it was better by far than the new one. Given that the alternator does not contain the voltage regulator (which determines the needed charge rate) , it is contained and controlled by the Powertrain Control Module (which receives and sends signals to many other functions) - this could explain why stalling can occur.

    IE : The battery is at a low level , so the PCM must set the voltage regulation (charge rate to the battery) to high full time. In this case , the battery is not able to be recharged (only maintained even when the set charge rate of the regulator is at full) , but prolonged full charge , while the battery is not responding could cause a fault code to be set in the nearest area (the cam position sensor).

    Another important factor I also changed this week - is the braided groundstraps , that go from the passenger side fender mount , to the engine block and the head. These are the only - "engine to ground" connections - as there is also 1 on the driver's side , which is set up the same way. That I am also going to change to solid copper wire , reconnected to the original mounting rings. For good insulated grounds , you should also be cleaning the aluminum block and head connecting areas with a file - to ensure a better "base ground". Any fluctuations in these areas could be causing a problem at the PCM. In turn , signals or power to the ASD (Automatic Shutdown Relay) are effected , and could be "how" the stalling is occuring , but not "why".

    What I am saying is : that the PCM relies upon the battery to determine signal strengths , when it does it's calculations , and is constantly monitoring the electrical system. The Service Manuals refer to a check engine light as : ( MIL ) Malfunction Indicator Light. Which is what I am saying , that the PCM may be malfunctioning due to the battery condition. While it is not necessary to replace the battery - just charge it back to it's full charged state - adding only the mixture of 36% sulfuric acid and 64% water (by taking fluids from another battery , instead of adding water) , if 1 or more of the battery cells appears low (at or under the battery plates). I never used water only , as this will dillute the mixture , and can cause the same conditions over time. Or you can , just get a new battery.
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