Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
You will not be sorry you did , as I will NOT use your address for anything else , nor share it. These are Technician Service Manuals , that specifically instruct the technician what must be done , what is involved , every single facet of a diagnosis and / or repair. You could expect to pay hundreds of dollars for these , as they are completely thorough , and NOT knockoff's , they are direct from Chrysler and contain authentication certificates / application documentations. They are complete copies off of the design bench.
Whereas , you will NOT be able to flip through them like you might a Chilton or Haynes manual. Using Adobe Reader 9 etc. , you will notice sections as large as 6000+ pages. Huge , huge manuals which include everything from troubleshooting to schematics.
Depending on your location , I have a copy already made , so you could have it (free) within a week or less. I originally made a copy to ensure that I didn't lose it from my computer , which would be a great loss. I'll flip it into the mail as soon as I get the information required to do so. I gaurantee you won't believe how much information is in these manuals.
I have had these manuals for over 6 months and still don't have the time to figure out an approx. volume size (over 10,000 pages at least).
Do nothing until dinging stops.
Then turn key to start car.
Also I use a bottle of fule line cleaner about $8 each tankful
Above works for me.
Good luck to you
I have a 99 300m with 230,000 miles on it. When i drive long distances say like a half hour away from my house and back it won't start if i go to turn it off and then back on. I try to turn it on and the car wont roll over. I can't even do errands in this car because of this. Lately it has been happening frequently. I am so afraid i will get stuck i wont even turn my car off at the gas station because this has happened to me there before. Sometimes i can get it to start if i pump the gas pedal while turning the key in the ignition. It will only start if it sits for like an hour or so then i can get it to start. The check engine light comes on every now and then when it happens, then goes away eventually. I was told it was the fuel pump from a friend who had a similar problem. Help, what is this??
The very first thing to do is to disconnect the fender ground connection and inspect the battery / including mainly it's cables. If the battery power cable is hard as a rock / unflexible , nearest the battery , it is time to splice a 12" section onto the cable terminals , or replace the entire cable. This can and does account for alot on a vehicle with a massive or sensitive electrical system. At this point , if this condition exists , there is no point checking any of the PDC relays or fuses. It is possible that your (ASD Relay) Automatic Shutdown Relay is working as normal , where the voltage is either inconsistent or inadequate. The ASD Relay is in the (PDC) Powertrain Control Center , where you will also find at least 1 power cable connected. It must be free of rust and corrosion. The PDC plastic cover should indicate where the ASD Relay is. Simply measuring a voltage at the ASD Relay contacts could tell you alot , but the ASD Relay itself must also conduct whatever voltage is input into it as well. Any time there is a fluctuation or problem in the electrical system , the ASD Relay shuts the system down.
Given that the engine starts , that indicates that there isn't any "on engine" sensor problems , although there may be wiring problems / conductivity. Something as simple as a transmission position sensor , could also cause a fault in the electrical system , where the ASD Relay will be triggered. The transmission position sensor must pass the startup electrical procedure , as all of the sensors must. This is why it is very important that you see the maximum of lights light up when you turn the key to the on/run position. Starting by checking the battery fill and power output , and all of it's related cables and connections , can provide you with lights in the dash lighting up after you make changes. That would confirm why the engine is starting up , and then being shut down repeatedly.
Bad battery cables are the most common reasons why electrical problems exist , and even a tester connected to the vehicle at a garage cannot perform properly , or display a proper diagnosis without adequate power from the battery etc. Usually the first 2 feet of both battery cables are the problem , as they are corroding at one end , and being heated by the engine/exhaust at the other within 2 feet. This creates a void where electrical current is irratic / inadequate / non-existent or too variable for the vehicle's electrical system to ignore as "normal".
The worst case scenario I have ever seen hidden , was on a semi tractor , where 2 full feet of cables were stuck together as a result of friction between the 2 cables. Bare cable of 1 cable was touching the other full time and accounted for minor intermittent problems as well as a lack of electrical power. In a 4 battery linked system , everything worked but not reliably , where any problems were never diagnosed to any avail. They could only be temporarily improved. To think that those cables were making contact while over 300 gallons of diesel capacity was within a few feet , speaks volumes about actually taking any wrapping or securing apparatus from these cables to ensure they are in good condition where they come together. Assuming that a meter can tell you otherwise is not the answer , where the vehicle has had radio/amplifier/lighting and starting problems , usually coupled with constant battery and alternator problems. These sections are the heart of any electrical system.
The effect is that the alternator voltage cannot get to the battery to maintain the battery's charge or state of charge , and the battery's voltage cannot provide the electrical system with a consistent and necessary voltage that is constantly monitored and regulated by electrical circuits/components/computers etc. The exact same symptoms many owners have can be repeated , by connecting a very bad battery to the vehicle and driven. No charging can occur regardless of any electrical cables or wiring , due to a faulty battery. This makes it so that your dash lights may be dim , your turn signals may not function correctly (they do not flash simultaneously) , your radio/stereo is faint , your starter turns over slowly , your engine coil or coils do not produce enough power to allow a proper spark through the spark plugs to the engine cylinders/gas mixture injection etc. etc. The vehicle will probably chug , have poor braking or steering on vehicles equipped with electrical assist or sensors , and in general be a pain in the butt. Always having some sort of problem.
The code for an ASD Relay problem or shutdown is : P1388 on a 2000 300m. In a case where the starter solenoid no longer clicks or is charged with power , where the starter was turning previously , you have yet another hidden connection that is faulty within the solenoid. You can determine this with a fully charged or new battery , where the solenoid suddenly clicks or the starter begins to turn. But after repeating the process the more powerful battery will allow you to determine that the solenoid has a short connection internally. Just 2 small wires can cause an immediate reaction from the ASD Relay , where no power will any longer reach the solenoid as well. Measuring the voltage to the solenoid is of no concern , what is of concern is that the solenoid is shorted , causing an ASD Relay shutdown. Even while the starter motor itself is still good.
runs for 2 seconds. It was suggested I do this 2 or 3 times before starting.
It's working.
Someone mentioned cam / crankshaft sensors..I just got a code for one of them. I'm having them replaced also the O2 sensor.
Since I do not get many people asking for these indepth manuals , very unlike Haynes , where the information is NOT coming directly from Chrysler instructions , I can afford to drop these in the mail for those who do want them (FREE) for a few dollars / disk. From my point of view , that isn't much money , to be able to share what is definately very huge in terms of technical reading. All you have to do is send an email to : [email protected] - and include the destination address where you would like the disk to be mailed to. No solicitation , emails , offers , or any other spam type emails other than a confirmation directly from me will arrive in your email box , or at your chosen address. This is the best way , as my computer is creating flawless copies that work just as well as the original I have. Don't hesitate to ask for this , because I have only sent 1 disk via snailmail to date , to someone who absolutely wanted the manuals , and gave me an address to mail to. That's all that is required.
The 2nd thing I would check is the fuel delivery system. (You must ensure that you check the spark of the plugs/coils first , as you don't want to be testing open sparks after you have opened the fuel lines , or you have gas fumes in your garage etc.) The order of testing is important. Without spark , or ample relative spark across all 6 cylinders , there is no need to question the fuel system until the spark is adequate throughout each cylinder.
Alot of times I have found profusely blocked fuel line filters , which wouldn't allow enough fuel through them to be passed onto the injectors. This will create a no start or coughing condition at the cylinders. NOT ENOUGH GAS. On the 300M , you lift the rear seat and the fuel line filter is attached on top of the gas tank. If it appears brown or discoloured , it's been overlooked , and not changed , possibly since new. Change that in line filter and pay close attention to the directional instructions of the filter. Most have an arrow indicating the direction of fuel flow. Flow should obviously be directed to the engine.
***If you want the Chrysler Service manuals , it's best to get them on the CD I provide , so that you can view them in PDF format (Adobe Reader) , on a laptop or computer while you work on the car itself. About a week ago someone else took me up on my free offer , so I sent the entire 10,000+ page collection to Ohio for $2.80. It's free if the cost is under $5.00. All you have to do is send your mailing address , or the address that you want the disk to arrive at to me into my email box : [email protected]
I will send the CD out to you right away.
**One other note : is that the 300M's computer system etc. pays close attention , and relies upon the signals coming from each spark plug etc. If just 1 of the coils or spark plugs is bad , the engine timing etc. cannot be properly calculated by the computer (electronic system etc.) , to be automatically adjusted for best performance : IE : idling. This is also why it is of the utmost importance to stick with the factory recommended spark plugs etc. I use the NGK - Laser Platinum Premium spark plugs on my 2002 300M Special (3.5L High Output Special - dual exhaust) [ NGK # ZFR5LP-13G spark plugs] Any decent parts store will caution you not to try different spark plugs , as they have had returns because of poor to bad performance. The proper spark plugs for your engine should be on the radiator / hood latch support decal. If not , check with a Chrysler dealer etc.
Good luck
FIRST --THE BATTERY : Charge the battery fully. See if car starts.
2nd Clean the battery posts taking care not to reduce the size of the posts, negative post in particular
3rd Most important -- clean the negative ground sites.. that means take a wire brush, clean off all paint, dirt, grease to the metal surface!!. Clean the negative ground site on all the negative cables, connections, including the fuse box and if possible the positive cable sites thoroughly. Spray hair spray over the connections sites when finished. ( has shellack in it -prevents corrision)
3-A if car starts ck battery fully ,,see if alternator is charging - a freebie @ auto zone!
4 start car.
5 If starter is turning over, not starting -- replace the starter relay in the fuse box !!
.6 start the car.
6.-A If not starting starter is cranking engine push accelerator to the floor !
Hold accelerator to the floor cranking engine 20 seconds. Stop,, wait 10 full minutes start car if car starts you have injector issues or sensors
7 ,if not starting ,,starter is working ,, disconnect the negative cable,again.
wait 1 full minute -reconnect this clears sensor codes. if car starts its a sensor problem
8 if car does not start fuel pump may be defective and/ or fuel filter
put your nose to the end of the car exhaust area --smell any gas? If not fuel pump problem.
9. You smell fuel not starting ,, take a spark plug out be sure to ground it on the engine,,,see if a park is seen. If not ck the coils .
10. if spark is seen ck plugs if not ok-- replace plugs with Champion plugs.(OEM)
11. car still does not start ,, recharge battery,,
If it starts most likely car starts when cold,,, either starter relay or injectors are bad.
If when car is hot when it stalls you have problems , ck the EGR valve this is under the windshield wiper are ,, a pro mechanic needs to do this as its hard hard work.
11.A injectors when hot can leak fuel,, the fuel rail has to be depressurized
by pulling the fuel fuse & cranking the engine for 20 seconds Then you can take out the fuel injector line after -- you take out the windshield wiper cowling ck for leaks by pressurizing fuel rail injector line , ( keep under pressure for 30 seconds looking for leaks.
12 None of the above apply ,, ck computer codes ,,gas cap,, cannister codes.
13 its time for the stealership, as most likley the ECM is shot!!
Crankshaft sensor ,camshaft sensors can be faulty ,, ck with Auto zone if you can most often these are ok, they go at about 100k so look at your mileage. codes should have shown up if car is running.
Then lastly , besides both the starter motor solenoid , or the starter motor armature , there still remains the possibility that the starter has not been carefully mounted into it's proper mounting position. If a replacement starter assembly (both new - solenoid and starter motor inside a refurbished or new casing) are "THROWN" into a transmission casing mount without clearing any corrosion/debris/rust/unevenness etc. , the new starter can possibly jam when used. What happens in this case , is that the "worm gear" attached to the starter solenoid/armature , misaligns itself with the flywheel or any other type of connecting gear which turns the engine , when the key is turned to the start position. The worm gear is specially designed to spin towards the connecting engine turning gear , whenever power is fed to the solenoid/armature. When you release the key from the start position , power no longer activates the worm gear , thus the starter is then entirely in a neutral position , where the worm gear is also in a neutral position. You have to be wary of a mechanic who does not pay close attention to the alignment of the starter motor casing/s , so that they fit flush , where there is no odd looking connection made with the 2 casings. The existing casing , can be sanded or filed to ensure a good fit with any new starter , while you can have alot of problems if a new starter is "THROWN" into it's position carelessly. Even bolting the new starter on can be done incorrectly when the alignment was not paid any attention. When you allow this type of repair to occur , chances are - you might have trouble down the road , or just around the next corner.
*In fact - this has happened to me with a Ford Dealership , where I got into my pickup after driving it approx. 50miles (after having engine work done where the starter had to be removed & reinstalled) [the starter was only a month old] , and the starter turned over , but wouldn't stop spinning - so the engine was running with the worm gear in it's engagement position with the flywheel. I was not going to drive it like that - so , being that even when the key position was in the run position - the starter was still running at a high rate of speed , I had to get out and take off the positive battery terminal cable to get the whole mess to stop. I restarted it , and luckily I got it home , where I released the starter bolts / removed the starter , and then "reinstalled" the starter - where there were no problems afterwards , for years. I even sold the vehicle , after a couple years , and the new owner , didn't have any problem either. To be specific : when you install a starter , 1 hand should be holding the starter casing/assembly in it's proper position , and pressing towards the mount (from it's end) [not from it's side etc.) , while the other hand is torquing the nuts or bolts tight. This is where it also means alot , as you have to do both simultaneously , without allowing the starter to shift. And - you don't just snug up or finger tighten the nuts or bolts - you have to be torquing the nuts or bolts while you are maintaining the proper starter motor position. Finger tightening while the starter is held from behind , is not enough , and then returning to torque the bolts - because the starter can still slightly shift where you didn't see or feel it happen. "Works every time".
http://oskin.ru/pub/chrysler-dodge/manuals/Chrysler_Service_Parts_Catalog/CD3/97- -01/99LH.pdf
If you read the post above yours , you will find that I am offering a complete and precise Service Manual for the 300M at no cost. All you have to do is send me the address where you want to have the disk mailed to , and return the cost of postage and materials to me to my address. More information is available to those who provide an address and are serious about having a full featured and authentic Chrysler Service Technician Manual - that explains everything from a manufacturer to dealership technician point of view. The manuals are 10,000+ pages in length , and come on 1 disk (fully intuitive - clickable , in PDF format).
Luiz Hilario
12 Dorothy st
hartford-CT-06106
Please send a message to my email box ([email protected]) , and know you must pay a small postage fee to receive a disk , while you also provide a mailing address where the disk can be sent to. In the future , I probably will NOT respond to those people who don't trust that I am sending disks out to them , which also includes my full informations (where I have a risk).
Within all this , you have to consider that the alternator is NOT a battery charger , it is a battery MAINTAINENCE DEVICE ONLY. Which coincides in theory , that it can't improve a battery that is abnormally being drained. All it can do is trickle charge the battery (even when it is in full charge mode) , at the level in which the battery exists. Sure , a battery will charge up , but it's condition (a case where you test to see if the battery is as good as it was before taking power from it) . Alternators are not capable of renewing lost battery condition , they are limited - or else they would burn up the battery when the rpm's are high.
Further , you can also find the same problems with the dash dimmer switch , where the rheostat switch has a short , and is effectively always on- even though the interior lights are not effected. A rheostat switch is a wire wound around a non-conductive material , which allows more current to flow at it's beginning end , and less at the other - for example. It is much like a coil . But if the adjustable metal slider/contact plate becomes burnt , corroded or otherwise , doesn't ever disconnect at the rest positions (off) , then this can occur. This was more prevalent with the older vehicles where the headlamp pull switch had a built-in rheostat dimmer (which would dim the dashpanel lights). So , it can still happen when the 2 are seperate units. This is difficult to determine , unless you replace the dimmer switch with an absolutely new or working unit , and see that the battery no longer drains. When the units are encased in plastic , you have no real other choice than to measure with a meter , but the meter can't show you that it is worn inside. This is very much like if you were to hold a wire in a wiring setup , where a bulb is lit. But the bulb sometimes doesn't light , even though the wires are connected (drawing power , but not lighting). Bad connection , components. Basically , if you left all of your lights on , or your interior lights on - then the battery would suffer greatly. Even when they didn't light up. A low current flow , low enough so the bulbs are not reaching a level where they light up.
With this in mind , someone who changes the battery cables can mistakenly attach the new cable to the battery positive fuse link (which is corroded and not properly conducting) , thereby reducing or eliminating the positive connection flow of current. This fuse link gets very hard , and should be replaced if a continuity test shows that the fuse link connection is intermittent or non-existent. Intermittent means , sometimes current flows and sometimes it doesn't - even when 2 meter probes are touching it's bare surface - with the meter on the ohms scale , or in continuity mode. While the 2 meter probes are in direct contact with the bare fuse link material (wire) , hold 1 probe still - and slide the other probe along the bare wire. If the meter jumps , sways up and down (the fuse link is not working correctly). You should be able to hold 1 probe firmly on the wire , while sliding the other - while the meter reading remains completely constant. Just like any new piece of cable or bare wire will.
First start of the day is always fine. At some point later, and it might be after a series of short trips running errands, or after sitting for a few hours, the engine will turn over but will not start. I'm no mechanic to speak of, but to me that means a problem with fuel, spark, air, or maybe the infamous ECM/PCM. None of these incidents ever throw a code, so I assume that it's not (likely?) to be a computer-related problem.
Generally after about 10 minutes of sitting, the car will start right up and might do so multiple times for the rest of the day. Which tells me that this isn't a problem with the battery, battery cables, starter, solenoid, etc., which don't fix themselves by being left alone for ten minutes. It also means, of course, that by the time a Chrysler mechanic looks at it, the car will start fine. "Could not duplicate" is not going to help.
It could be a spark issue, but not with an individual ignition coil-on-plug, which wouldn't keep the car from starting, and all of them wouldn't fail at the same time. To me, that means it might be a component that controls the spark to all the cylinders.
It could be a fuel-related problem, and I've read comments about trying a flood clearing start, which if successful might indicate a bad fuel pressure regulator or leaky fuel injectors. The next time it happens, I'll try that.
The primary frustration comes from seeing ideas in the forums that appear to be totally unknown to a Chrysler service rep, and I find it incomprehensible that Chrysler doesn't have a better answer than, "We'll have to look at it when it's happening." Over the years, multiple Chrysler service personnel have dealt with this problem and fixed it.
Can anyone direct me to a source of information that I can take with me to the dealership and tell them what they need to do to troubleshoot this problem without stumbling around in the dark?
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Tango Mike
If you are interested , I have a 10,000+ page authentic Chrysler Service Manual , which completely explains all systems & components (their locations/functions & purposes) , which I provide on CD by mail ONLY. Because of dishonest forum users (who would like to have this TOTALLY FREE) , and not even pay for postage , it is only available by sending $6 to my Paypal email address : [email protected] . As soon as I see a payment made , I am notified and send the disk out to the payee the following business day. But , to ensure you receive the disk to the proper address , you should also send your correct postal address to the same email address. This will give you uncommon informations which you can refer to when dealing with any dealership mechanic/technician/supervisor etc.
As far as your vehicle goes (or anyone's for that matter) , if you bring your vehicle into the appropriate dealership in poor condition throughout - you are generally in for a rough ride from your point of view - regardless of the manufacturer or dealership. This is where the NON-DEALERSHIP garages live and breathe their incomes from (right into their own pockets in some cases). It's always best to know what you are talking about through positive and authenticated knowledge on any subject dealing with your vehicle. Dropping your keys off and trusting someone who is charging you up to $100+/ hr. for labour alone - can sometimes leave you on the defense of your actions. For example : BMW charges $500.00 to do a safety check /inspection (which does not mean your vehicle passes this inspection , nor is qualified to receive a safety inspection certification).
Any decent garage will ONLY have mechanics who work on vehicles who DON'T act like they know it all , and have seen it all. They are : the "bring it on types". Yet , if you frequent those garages and talk to some of the customers (who do pay their bill , who do take care of their vehicle and don't expect it to be an F1 racer on a daily basis) , you sometimes find out that their informations and their actions are not only incorrect , but they laugh at customers who are struggling to pay the bill etc.
Let me give you 1 example : I was in Michigan and I had a problem with a vehicle which was not my own. It was a company vehicle. The air conditioning clutch was burning out repeatedly. After driving this same vehicle from Quebec , the first time , the air conditioning compressor clutch had to be replaced. I told the mechanic (who was working for Penske , and had the service contract for the vehicle and did a good job of maintainence - which also included a wash bay for their contract customers) , that I thought the air conditioning compressor was the problem itself , because the compressor heated up far too quickly , within a minute of startup. This , created an environment where the clutch pad was overheating (being in direct connection with the compressor body). He shrugged , put on a brand new compressor clutch , and I was on my way. Then , it was gone (worn down to less than 1/8" of pad in Michigan within a couple weeks). Which had to be replaced again in Michigan. Then Penske asked me to bring the vehicle in because the manufacturer had decided I was right , and they were going to have to preplace the compressor itself. It was overheating , and the unit was completely replaced under warranty. Months later , while I was still driving the same vehicle for business , it was fine. And it was still fine after I stopped driving it , a year down the road. NO MORE CLUTCH REPLACEMENTS.
On a second note in Michigan : I spoke with the mechanic who did the 2nd replacement of the air conditioner clutch pad , and he told me that : "it's a joke". He said that he makes more money on fleet maintainence , than he ever could working at any garage. Why? Because , all of the costs are sent directly back to the manufacturer , due to the work being done mostly under warranty periods (Fleet Leasing). Fleet leasing allows the manufacturer's customer to lease new vehicles , which are always under warranty of some kind. And he also said that , as a result , manufacturer interests are on the climb , in terms of the fact that they view and operate under the idea that they are making more sales this way. When in fact , they pay nationwide in the US , to any licensed garage , when a repair falls under warranty. This is a PUSH HERE type of operation , which does not support QUALITY , just QUANTITY. And this is also why , no 2 vehicles are identical anymore. Not to mention that every vehicle that comes in with the same problems , so he would only have to repeat the same things , over and over. There was not any mechanics involved. He laughed. Just replacements.
Typically , you have to find a garage where the mechanic has still got that urge to learn , via fixing something. They value this type of thing , not just what they get paid , and how quickly. And when you have pertainent informations , you have all you need to find someone who will do the job based on : theory / application / success and proof. Trouble is : these guys are hard to find , and you will definately not see their garage at idle , at any time , on any day , any month - plus the horror stories are practically non-existent. Just lots of repeat customers , who are servicing their vehicles through a reputable repair shop / garage.
Just because a voltmeter shows 12-14 volts (14 volts is the maximum , any higher measurement determines a "shorting cell") , when connected across the positive and negative terminals , that doesn't mean that you "are not" just measuring 1 good cell and a connection to the battery posts. You must check each cell's condition / fill level / and measure it's electrostatic charge with a hydrometer - to determine that the battery is either , good or not so good overall. In some cases , you can even find totally dead cells , which are chalk full of corrosion (don't work at all) , yet somebody said the battery is OK because 12 volts is measured across it's terminals. INCORRECT.
The rule of thumb is : any time there is an electrical problem , the battery must be "tested" / checked. And NOT the lazy way , the professional way. There is also the possibility that a condition exists where the charging system is being shut down (for safety) , because 1 of the battery cells is bad. What happens is , when you get up to speed , only the voltage regulator is in control (between the alternator and the battery). Without a voltage regulator in the alternator (as you sped up , the voltage would soar with no control - burning up the battery) , so at highway speed , the alternator's voltage regulator reaches it's peak. But ... if there is a bad cell in the battery , a short can occur (where the computer etc. recognizes this and shuts the system down through the ASD Relay [automatic shutdown relay]. The ASD Relay works 2 ways. If the current to the ASD Relay is too low , the engine will not start , & if the current to the ASD Relay is too high , it effectively works like a circuit breaker , and shuts the engine down. It's a safety relay. This is a "current overload" condition.
With all this is mind , you should also be aware that running the wrong sparkplugs in an engine can also cause these problems. The wrong sparkplugs can cause current calibration errors that the electrical system will react to. Too hot a sparkplug , "current overload" , too cold a sparkplug "inconsistent current". Both will cause the ASD Relay to trip. The correct sparkplugs are Laser Platinum , and their exact applicable type should be on a sticker on the radiator crossmember or available from the dealer. Any other applications have proved to be different enough to cause electrical system calibration problems - where (if you change the plugs , you must also reprogram the entire applicable electrical settings). You don't want to go there , as these settings can shorten the life of the stock engine , and are really for RACE applications only. So... changing to the wrong sparkplugs on these all aluminum motors is not a recommended venture. IE : stalling , running hot , poor acceleration , won't cold start , won't hot start , uncalibrated shifting points of the transmission etc.
On the other hand, I'm not all that interested in scouring 10,000 pages looking for what to tell a mechanic about how to troubleshoot the car. And for the record, the opening line in your third paragraph makes all that follows non-applicable to the question I asked. The car has about 40k miles on it and is anything but "in poor condition throughout."
On Monday we took the car to a local mechanic after waiting three days for a return call from the service department at the dealership in response to two messages, which gave me even less confidence in them than I had before I made the calls.
We handed the mechanic a written description and explained exactly what was happening. Based on that conversation, in which I made it very clear that effective troubleshooting had to include something more than waiting for the problem to occur, an event which might take a few weeks or more based on our experience with it.
I just found out that their only tactic has been to drive the car around for the past three-plus days "with sensors hooked up," whatever that means, as if it's okay to keep the car until something happens. That's not the answer.
Is there not a portable monitoring system that can be connected and left in place while we use the car as we normally do so that when it fails to start the next time, the monitor will record the event? That question will be asked when I visit the shop in about an hour. If it's the same old song and dance, we'll take the car deal with the problem until we can see our way clear to get rid of it.
That said , if the Throttle Position Sensor is the problem - it's condition can be effected by a clogging or malfunctioning PCV Valve , which is located directly in front of it on the throttlebody itself.
Quickly - my first thoughts would have been that : 1. The engine starts and runs (crankshaft and camshaft sensors must be good). When you take the car out onto the road and accelerate it is OK , until you try to hold a speed. 2. This indicates a problem with the throttlebody. In effect , this may be a case where the Throttle Position Sensor has a buildup of carbon etc. which makes it so that it fails to send a proper signal to the PCM at this much used point. Even if you simply removed the TPS from the throttlebody and inspected it (finding a buildup of carbon on it etc.) - this would be where I would start - a quick test. Re-run the car and attempt to hold a speed after replacing. At the same time , you should pull out the PCV valve , and inspect / replace it if possible. The PCV Valve , is a part that should be replaced according to the maintainence schedule (IE : certain mileage).
If you had started there , and there was no difference (same problem) , I would definately suspect that the fuel pressure regulator / filter was the problem. Why? Because by pressing the gas pedal , you set the TPS signal to the PCM , which dictates (how much fuel , and at what interval [pulse / timing] ) , but with a clogged fuel filter , or malfunctioning fuel pressure regulator - THAT IS ALL THAT IS POSSIBLE. [Effectively , you are only controlling the speed of the fuelpump itself]. No constant or regulated flow can exist by electronic means alone (from the sensors). This would unfortunately mean that the gastank would have to be dropped , to replace the fuel pressure regulator , which has an integrally mounted fuel filter on it. The pump may be working , and the regulator may also be OK - but the filter is past being clogged (but collapsed). Blocking the normal flow of fuel. Which is what I first suggested , may be involved - "other" (fuel problems).
This is also why I do not recommend that it is OK to pour aftermarket fuel injector cleaner or any other type of chemical into the gastank. The manufacturer service manual specifies the same advice. The only chemical I add to any fueltank is "gasline antifreeze" - which penetrates water molecules (causing them to mix with gasoline and be burned) , where prior - they were on the insides of the tank , in the lines , and possibly floating throughout. This gets rid of them , and is yet another possible fix.
Given that a garage is attempting to fix the problem , they are limited as to the amount of "rudimentary" work they can do - due to labor costs. Which is exactly why - having a service manual , will even specify what checks should be done , other than with an OBD (Onboard Diagnostic) testor etc. And they give fault codes , which are only "related" to the actual problem. In other words , the fault code may have specified that the transmission speed sensor code was recorded as a problem to the PCM or ASD Relay (explaining the stalling of the engine). This is why I go rudimentary first , and then I go electronic. Pulling apart the air intake box / filter & the TPS & PCV Valve , would have been my first action (if the battery looked ok , and the wiring also looked ok throughout the PDC (Power Distribution Centre). Skipping directly to the throttlebody operations.
My question remains: is there a diagnostic device or software for a laptop/tablet that can be hooked up and left in the car to record what happens when it fails to start on one of these intermittent events? Whatever is causing it doesn't throw a code and trigger the check engine light, so the diagnostic method has to identify the temporary fault in the component before it "fixes itself" in the typical 10-minute period.
A few days ago, the check engine light came on and we found a code for the cam position sensor, which we suspected might be causing the problem, by itself or in combination with the crank position sensor. The mechanic reported that the cam sensor appeared to be "slightly damaged," but I don't know what that means, specifically.
Decided to replace them both, and I'll report back on the results in case anyone has a similar problem.
Since the battery is in the corner , in a place where water drains , it's not just a case where you just need to check and clean the battery posts and connectors - you should pull the battery out and bench test it with a hydrometer , to check the battery's fill specific gravity. If you can't remember the last time this was done , chances are the battery is down , and won't be recharged by the alternator to a point above "fair" or "recharge". The alternator only maintains whatever level the specific gravity is at. I just pulled mine out this week and found it to be right at the fair & recharge level. When I charged it , the fluids went murky but it eventually charged up to the good level after leaving it on low charge overnight. I high charged it for 4hrs. and then left it on low charge overnight. When compared to a hardly used battery , it was better by far than the new one. Given that the alternator does not contain the voltage regulator (which determines the needed charge rate) , it is contained and controlled by the Powertrain Control Module (which receives and sends signals to many other functions) - this could explain why stalling can occur.
IE : The battery is at a low level , so the PCM must set the voltage regulation (charge rate to the battery) to high full time. In this case , the battery is not able to be recharged (only maintained even when the set charge rate of the regulator is at full) , but prolonged full charge , while the battery is not responding could cause a fault code to be set in the nearest area (the cam position sensor).
Another important factor I also changed this week - is the braided groundstraps , that go from the passenger side fender mount , to the engine block and the head. These are the only - "engine to ground" connections - as there is also 1 on the driver's side , which is set up the same way. That I am also going to change to solid copper wire , reconnected to the original mounting rings. For good insulated grounds , you should also be cleaning the aluminum block and head connecting areas with a file - to ensure a better "base ground". Any fluctuations in these areas could be causing a problem at the PCM. In turn , signals or power to the ASD (Automatic Shutdown Relay) are effected , and could be "how" the stalling is occuring , but not "why".
What I am saying is : that the PCM relies upon the battery to determine signal strengths , when it does it's calculations , and is constantly monitoring the electrical system. The Service Manuals refer to a check engine light as : ( MIL ) Malfunction Indicator Light. Which is what I am saying , that the PCM may be malfunctioning due to the battery condition. While it is not necessary to replace the battery - just charge it back to it's full charged state - adding only the mixture of 36% sulfuric acid and 64% water (by taking fluids from another battery , instead of adding water) , if 1 or more of the battery cells appears low (at or under the battery plates). I never used water only , as this will dillute the mixture , and can cause the same conditions over time. Or you can , just get a new battery.