Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Luxury Lounge

1429430432434435713

Comments

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Oh so you are saying that the only thing lacking about the RL is the exterior styling? What about the "charisma"?

    I can live with that you know...
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ... The RL just looks like "some car".

    The Honda Odyssey "mini" van, in fact. From the front, that is.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ... I just have a bit of a vendetta against the Corvette. ...

    I understand. It can get like that sometimes after a car has handed you your lunch a few too many times! :P
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ... I would never buy a Vette, because the image of a mid-life crisis still lingers. ...

    Come on now. Be fair. What's the ratio of young, hip guys versus chrome-domed, golf-shirt-and-loafers/sandles-wearing, middle-aged guys driving Porsches?? :surprise: If it weren't for those middle-aged guys, there would be no "sports cars." The insurance is too dang high for the younger set!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Oh so you are saying that the only thing lacking about the RL is the exterior styling? What about the "charisma"?

    Not even slightly. The RL is completely lacking in charisma, as well as a multitude of other things. It's too cramped, the interior has that "faux-luxury" feel typical of Acura, the center stack and secondary controls are horrible, Acura "8-way/4-way is enough for anybody" seats, that hack-job of a keyless ignition system, etc.

    When you have superb cars like the XF, the A6, and the M, there's absolutely no reason to buy the RL, which is what just about everybody isn't doing.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    I've finally figured it out! Is it just me or does the new Camaro look like Snidely Whiplash and/or Mutley?? :surprise: That's been bugging the crap out of me since the concept was unveiled to figure what it looks like! Look at it from the front/front profile. It's not "luxury," but this is the Lounge. ;)
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Yeah, I guess. Eh.

    If you really want best performance for your buck, just tune an EVO.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Make fun all you like, but I think you know exactly what I meant.

    The RL is boring. Dull. Unexciting. It is certainly hard for a car in that class to really be "exciting," as I don't think the RL, GS, S80, A6 or even M35 fit the bill. However, Acura really found a new low with the RL. Nice, in theory, but very poorly executed. It would make you comfortable and satisfied day in and day out, but when I drop $50K on a car I want something more than that.

    I'll ask one thing: Do you have any interest in owning one?

    And by the way, are you actually defending the car because you like it, or because you just enjoy playing devil's advocate? I'm a big Honda supporter, and I hasten to remind you that I have owned several Acuras, but the luxury brand continues to disappoint. Not me, but everyone. Why do you think their sales are on such a decline?

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    That's true, and it occurred to me as I was posting, but I went ahead and wrote it anyway.

    There are only two Corvettes that are truly desirable, to me:

    image
    image

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    If you really want best performance for your buck, just tune an EVO.

    Actually, the car with the best performance per dollar is the Ariel Atom. It smoked the Z06 (as well as the Carrera GT and Murcielago LP640) on the TG test track, and was only a half second slower than the Enzo. The fastest EVO they've done to date, the old FQ-400, only managed 23rd place.

    The new V8 Atom would probably be able to take down the Ascari and K-segg, but I'm pretty sure its rather pricey.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    There are only two Corvettes that are truly desirable, to me:

    Those late '50s Vettes are cool, but I like the original '53-55 the most. That's the only time the Vette was ever a truly elegant car. I assume the second photo is the split window 'Ray? Great car.

    image
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I'll ask one thing: Do you have any interest in owning one?

    Nope. But I don't have any interest in owning a 5er (except M5), E, M, A6 and GS as well...

    And by the way, are you actually defending the car because you like it, or because you just enjoy playing devil's advocate?

    I don't like nor dislike the RL, I think it is too blend compare to the TL and Acura priced it too high initially. Also, not to mention the lacking of a V8. However, I just don't think the RL is that "worthless" as some of you have put it. Maybe you didn't mean it but that's the expression I received.

    You would probably mark me as a Lexus/Toyota fanboy but deep inside I am a huge Honda/Acura supporter. My first car was a 1990 Acura Legend and I drove a '97 Honda Accord for 6 years before bought my current IS350. Like I said before, Acura had a great intention of making the RL to be a 5er fighter but unfortunately the product it presented came up short. Overall I think Acura still had itself in a good place strategically, they just need to step up on offering competitive products. They can begin with:

    - Make sure the next RL will be a true 5er fighter and give it a V8
    - Make sure the next TL will live up to the hype
    - Make the SH-AWD RWD-biased
    - Make a TL coupe
    - Develop a flagship sedan by 2012 with the RWD-biased SH-AWD platform

    Those above will not make Acura the number one luxury brand in US but will definitely enable it to pass Infiniti and Audi for a very solid number 4.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,388
    You see, the Corvette has blood lines and is one of the only US cars that have that great distinction. I remeber all of the relatives

    I do like the C6 style and the upgrade interior is acceptable now. It's nice to know choosing one today offers a tradition of very desirable and prominent blood lines.

    You could still call it (C6) cheap but way cool to me.

    Regards,
    OW
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    You could still call it (C6) cheap but way cool to me.

    Whole-heartedly agree.

    The C6 interior isn't up there yet with the "supers" but is much improved and acceptable now.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Make a TL coupe

    That's the only one on your list that isn't supposed to happen. Acura has a RWD RL in the works with a new V8 engine, and it will offer a RWD based AWD system like the M. They are also working on a flagship sedan, though it isn't supposed to be ready until at least 2015.

    I don't see the CL being resurrected. The entry-lux coupe market in the US isn't that big, and its already very well saturated.
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    That`s a nice photo, and I notice the `white wall` tires...I wonder if there is any place to get them still? Tony
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    July C & D...

    Other than acknowledging the GT-R as an outstanding point and shoot appliance for the track, I was not very impressed with the feedback on the car overall, particularly as it related to the GT-R's most common use... driving OFF the track.

    Bottom line, C & D indicates that driving the GT-R off the track is quite the unpleasant experience. Generally, that's where most of the cars spend their time anyway... off the track... and they are usually enjoyable and fun to drive within reason... not so with the GT-R.

    I also got the clear impression that the transmission is too clunky, jerky, and rough.

    In the review that comps the Porsche 911 Turbo and the GT-R, there is also an appearance by BMW's M3. At the end of the day, even though its power difference was significantly less, the M3 won the hearts of all the reviewers... hands down.

    So far, I still must respect the GT-R for its capabilities on the track, but overall, the C & D article has deflated my opinion of the car. Obviously, I must read more reviews and try one for myself in the future.

    TM
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    I know that this will strike most of you as odd, but I rather like the looks of the RL - particularly in the lighter colors. To my eyes, it has a clean, upmarket look that I think will age well. I don't particularly like the interior - Honda dropped the ball here - but if I had to choose between the RL & the Infiniti M solely on the strength of their respective exteriors, I'd vote for the RL. IMO, a 10-year-old M will look considerably more dated. Seeing one, folks will say "Oh, how early 2nd-term George Bush that looks."

    Still, I'd rather own & drive the M, my misgivings about its styling not withstanding. The interior, which matters more to me than the exterior, is top-drawer, & the car is simply a better drive. But it's not a terribly good-looking automobile.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    I think the Suzuki Kizashi 3 Concept pictured in the June Car&Driver would make a great RL if it were RWD/AWD. It looks more like a luxury flagship than the RL does, but it's supposed to come out as a CamCordAltiBu fighter.
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    I said tune an Evo. ;)

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    My wife had a late '80s Integra (forgot which year), I had a '92 Vigor and then a '96 TL. The TL is really what turned me off of the brand and made me realize that Acura was going down the tubes. My most recent Honda purchase was my daughter's '03 Civic EX coupe. My older son has since inherited it and turned it into a rice burner, piece by piece. It will be sold by the end of the summer.

    The things that Acura "could" do about the RL have been said time and time again. What would be truly shocking is if it actually happened.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    I understand your reasoning, but to me it simply does not look upmarket. It looks like an entrly-level family sedan masquerading as a luxury car (think Hyundai Sonata, XG350). Obviously it's more polished, but there is just so much more they could've done with the car.

    One design that some could call "bland" but I consider "gorgeous" is the Audi A8. That's a car that looks upmarket, pure, simple, beautiful. It will age very well. Saw an updated '08 A8 yesterday, and even though it's pretty familiar I couldn't stop staring at the thing. It's a rare treat.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    In the review that comps the Porsche 911 Turbo and the GT-R, there is also an appearance by BMW's M3. At the end of the day, even though its power difference was significantly less, the M3 won the hearts of all the reviewers... hands down.

    I saw that review as well. I'm not quite sure where C&D was going with that comparison, do they mean to suggest that the M3 is a better car than the 911 Turbo, or that buyers of one would even consider the other? It didn't make a lot of sense. Their opening about how "maybe the Z06 is so awesome that its here, its just invisible" was humorous, but then I thought, why isn't the Z06 there? Who cares if it lost some other test to the 911 Turbo? That's the comparison people want to see, Z06 vs. GT-R.

    IMO, not one of C&D's better efforts. They also have a penchant for letting the sports car with the biggest trunk space or most usable back seats win tests, regardless of how well it actually stacks up performance wise.

    That snarky remark about how "maybe everyone else should just give up and start building M3s" was also more than a little disquieting. The M3 is a great car but its not the best car in the world at everything by any stretch, and that line seemed to show blatant "BMW makes sure its cars always win our tests" bias.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I said tune an Evo

    The FQ-400 was pretty well tuned. It was boosted to 400hp, thats 200hp/L and just about the maximum of what the old engine could take without serious modification. If the FQs were ever sold in the states, I assume the top 400 would be at least $50 - 60K, which starts taking the "bargain" out of it.

    The Atom has a 300hp supercharged Civic Type R engine bolted to four wheels, and thats about it. It weighs a third what an Evo does. It makes an Elise look like an elephant. I don't care how much you tune it, you won't catch the Atom. The V8 version has a power to weight ratio approaching Formula 1 levels.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    But it's not a terribly good-looking automobile.

    The updates they've done for the '08 refresh have helped quite a bit, especially at the back. The M still isn't the best looking car by far, but its much better. Those orange gauges are also banished from the brand entirely now, which is good.

    It's hard to tell how a car will age. The previous A6 is still quite fresh and modern looking, and doesn't appear like a '90s design at all. The old E-class on the other hand looked absolutely ancient by 2003.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Let's take a look at that C&D article featuring the GT-R and the Porsche 911 Turbo, and the BMW M3. For the sake of learning more about the GT-R, and removing subjective "favorites", consider taking the M3 wildcard completely out of the picture, leaving the Porsche 911 Turbo as the lone remaining car in the comp.

    For that matter, let's just go a step further and remove the 911 as well, leaving no comps at all.

    Now... all that remains is the GT-R. We are still left with the same feedback, with regards to its driving dynamics, that we had prior to removing the comps. And THAT feedback lends reason to pause, and realize that the GT-R has a reality with genuine limitations, and it is not the incredible magical car that exists in imaginations.

    The GT-R is capable of proficient, non-dramatic lap times on a track. It inherently accomplishes this by design. That said, the transmission's behavior is likely an area for improvement. The car's more typical life off-track is not an enjoyable experience.

    It doesn't matter what other car the GT-R robotically devours for lunch on a track if the car delivers a pathetic off-track driving dynamic. So, in fairness, the C&D article, independent of the comps, hss provided significant information about the GT-R that illuminates it's true nature. And, based upon that information, I am still respectful of the car's merits, but less impressed with the GT-R overall as a result.

    TM
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Can't agree more with you there. IMO C&D are comparing apples to oranges, M3 is easy to live with as a daily driver (if it's under warranty that is) but not so much for the 911 Turbo and GT-R.

    I know there are people out there having their M3s as their weekend fun cars but for me I'd rather just spend another $10k or so and get a Z06.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Lou,

    I'm obviously one here that still thinks the Z06 represents a terrific value among sports cars. It delivers a whole lot of performance and style for a comparatively very reasonable price.

    Horsepower... 505 @ 6300 rpm
    Torque... 470 @ 4800 rpm

    Who cares what the naysayers think about the Corvette? They probably don't realize just how well the car has evolved over the years. It's an icon, and it will stir the emotions in many who gaze their eyes upon it.

    image
    image

    I, for one, hope you get one. :)

    edit: as far as the C&D article, I think the M3 didn't even belong in the comp. My take on the article has been posted above, and I think the only real benefit that came from the article was the feedback that was directly related to the GT-R. We've all heard the rest of the stuff on the other cars before. And, we all know that the Z06 should have been in the test... more so than the M3, and C&D knew it too... or they wouldn't have made their 'excuse". They just couldn't resist plugging the M3... which, IMO, doesn't need their promo, as it stands on its own merits, and shouldn't be used in a gimmicky manner as it was.

    Also, in reply to your comments about DD... the Porsche 911 Turbo can be a suitable DD, although the NA versions are preferable, IMO. I have been using my 911 Carrera S as a DD recently, and it's been wonderful. When the PASM is set to sport, it can get a bit stiff, but certainly tolerable. I generally keep it in non-sport mode, unless I need the extra grip. I think it's becoming clearer that the GT-R, however, will not make for a good DD.

    One more point... the perfect garage would likely have an M3 AND a Z06 parked inside, don't you think? ;)

    TM
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    I, for one, hope you get one.

    Tag, I will, one day. Hopefully that day comes before I turned 40...

    One more point... the perfect garage would likely have an M3 AND a Z06 parked inside, don't you think?

    That's exactly what my garage would look like in 10 years. Maybe instead of the M3 I'll have an IS F if the Lexus F-division can live up to its potential. ;)

    Actually I am no longer craving for a M3/C63/RS4/IS F as my daily driver. After thinking more about the pros and cons and looking at those stunning Z06 pictures I am just going to stay with a normal sports sedan (3er/A4/G/IS) and at the mean time save up for a Z06 as my weekend car.
Sign In or Register to comment.