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  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    What I meant to say is that you've totally missed the point of why I mentioned F-sport.

    ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Peugeot in the U.S.? That's just hard to believe.

    image

    link title

    TM
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    What I meant to say is that you've totally missed the point of why I mentioned F-sport.

    Cool... just say what you mean next time. :P

    ;) :) :D

    TM
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    By the way, who asked for X1?

    Oh wait, yeah, the same idiots who asked for X6...

    Never mind.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Cool... just say what you mean next time.

    Actually I did, you just need to read it more closely next time.

    ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    By the way, who asked for X1?

    Oh wait, yeah, the same idiots who asked for X6...


    Is that how you see it?

    From my vantage point, the X1 could tie into the trend towards smaller more fuel-efficient vehicles, while providing the historically successful SUV body style. It would counter the competition and their upcoming small SUV models. And, I'll add, if it drives like the current 1-Series, it could be a nice addition to the lineup.

    The X6, however, is a total loser, IMHO. Senseless.

    TM
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Is that how you see it?

    Yes.

    BMW should just bring us the 3- / 5-door version of the 1-series and call it a day.

    Maybe they are since I caught a 5-door 1er on PCH several months ago. Here are the shots I took with my cell phone:

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    If this is true then that just makes the X1 idea even more pointless.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Sure... pass the buck to me. I'm used to it. :)

    TM
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    BMW should just bring us the 3- / 5-door version of the 1-series and call it a day.

    But, that cool vehicle is actually dysfunctional in terms of interior cargo/ room/ layout. An X1 will probably solve those issues and be competitively marketed in the more-acceptable SUV or CUV body style.

    TM
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    What? All SUVs/CUVs are just jacked up wagons anyway.

    With the rear seat folds down I wouldn't be surprised that the 5-door 1er has about the same cargo area as the would be X1.

    Check out my previous post, I've uploaded some pictures I took.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Sure... pass the buck to me. I'm used to it.

    Then we agree! ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    While this applies to Europe, it is a very good sign that BMW will be in a terrific position to tackle the challenges of fuel-efficiency and controlled-emissions here on our shores.

    link title

    TM
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Cool pics!

    With the rear seat folds down I wouldn't be surprised that the 5-door 1er has about the same cargo area as the would be X1.

    Not necessarily. If we are talking rear-wheel drive, then the drivetrain can be less intrusive in an SUV than a hatchback, resulting in more interior passenger and cargo capacity. My guess is that's why we'll see an X1 and not a 1-Series hatchback.

    TM
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Wait, let me make sure that I understand...

    The X1 will be smaller than the X3 right?

    Personally the X3 is already a compact SUV and doesn't provide much cargo volume. Who the heck in their sanity would go get a X1 if interior space is top on the priority list? :confuse:
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Just a little more wait-and-see about Genesis with these few updates...

    Genesis receives a 5-Star safety rating.

    Genesis ad states that Lexus should be nervous, and later in the ad it is revealed that it was Motor Trend that said that, giving credibility to the statement.

    And finally... Initial sales of Genesis are way better than projected!

    TM
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Personally the X3 is already a compact SUV and doesn't provide much cargo volume. Who the heck in their sanity would go get a X1 if interior space is top on the priority list?

    You are right about the poor provision of interior space in the X3. Hopefully, the X1 will do a decent job with interior room. I'd bet large that the next X3 will be improved.

    TM
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Peugeot in the U.S.? That's just hard to believe.

    Doesn't seem likely, not unless the dollar hugely strengthens against the Euro.
  • Tag, very true. When I went to test the A5, they had a sold S5 on the lot that I got to inspect. Everything but drive it. It was in the color I wanted & reinforced my decision. Meteor Gray & looked better than pics I saw on the web. Took almost 30 pics that I've been pouring over a lot!
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,369
    When I saw these pics, I really almost...

    You decide.

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    Good Night!

    Regards,
    OW
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Posts: 1,491
    No, no car has to be BMW. However hpowders pretty much hit the bullseye, car companies ARE comparing their cars with BMWs!!! Who's guilty? Well, who knows... who started it? The competitors themseleves. I dont think that many cars are trying to become BMW though, I believe they're trying to compete with bmw in it's class segment! BMW doesnt own the class, you know.
    Whether BMW is comparable or not is relative.
    Those looking for balanced out luxury sports sedan find BMWs incomparable, while those looking for similar experience on a budget (willing to sacrifice a bit) will find Infiniti the best car ever.
    Those looking for greatest comfort and ride will probably find Lexus and MB incomparable.
    Those looking for true awd sedan will find Audi and its legendary quattro hard to beat.
    While people expecting top notch customer service will most likely think twice before choosing BMW. hpowders, youre not alone. BMW's rather poor service for a premium brand is a well known subject. Even my local dealer wasnt that friendly, they're just, arrogant, until the Audi dealer across town outsell them in 2005.

    Its that subjective, people. If BMW isnt for you, just dont buy it, noone require you to buy one, thats why there are competitors all over the board.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Posts: 1,491
    What points affect safety? My pick: steering, braking, controls, airbag, and the driver itself. Sans the last point BMW is, a very safe car in my personal view. The way the communicative steering, controls work together make the car predictable, stable, and these traits allow you to know the car's limits easily. Yes it has the ebst handling in its class.You know exactly what the car can do, when, where, etc. Something that really helps during emergency driving.

    That said I never said no other car can be as safe, just may take more time or effort adjusting to it's behavior. BMW doesnt make a better driver, a driver who knows his/her car's limits, habits, and can adjust to it, is the better driver. And better driver goes anywhere safe in any car he/she drives. BMW in this sense, is the EASIEST to deal with, requiring less adjustments than many others. It's drivability limits is also among the highest in class, few can match the numbers. I believe G35 come closest to matching BMW, with braking even surpassing 3er's. But the feel is different, for instance: with the 3 you can brake gradually, smoothly and still stop at, say 100ft. You can do the same in G35, but the brakes are grabby its hard to brake smoothly. Matching the numbers is easy, matching the feel is the hard part. Whether the BMW is worth the extra $$$ for the driving feel depends on the driver.

    Before anyone starts to doubt my point, I used to drive an '04 3er for a few years (until it got t-boned by a sucker running through a red light, that is). Then I switched to my TSX, therefor I can tell the difference. The TSX is a capable car, less balanced than my 3, but once I got used to it, it can be as safe as my BMW. But, and its a big one, I just cant push it the same way I pushed my beemer. (to be fair the front wheeler TSX is easier to drive in snow than any RWD 3er I know)

    Now if you ask me, what car has the best handling, most balanced car for its class? BMW. What car is the worst in its class? BMW with Active Steering!!! Yes you read it right. At least even Acura TL's torque steer is predictable, not so with active steering. BMW is, imo, the best AND the worst.

    Like I said, its totally subjective.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Now if you ask me, what car has the best handling, most balanced car for its class? BMW. What car is the worst in its class? BMW with Active Steering!

    A shocking statement regarding Active Steering. Unfortunately, not all that uncommon. It is a feature that is widely misunderstood. I'm going to set the record straight here about Active Steering.

    I have tested and purchased BMWs with Active Steering and also without it. Every model BMW does not have the exact same steering ratio without Active Steering, so it is kind of absurd to make one blanket statement regarding the steering capabilties of BMWs.

    Specifically, I'll do best to reference the 1-Series, since I owned the 2008 135i Coupe without the A.S. before ordering my 2008 135i convertible, which has the Active Steering option. For the record, I thoroughly tested A.S. to see if it was a benefit or not before ordering it on my 135i convertible.

    The NON-A.S. 135i has a terribly slow standard steering ratio. While it is still considered a good handling vehicle, at slow to moderate vehicle speeds it takes an abundance of wheel turning to bring about a response, due to that slow ratio. It's noticeable. The Active Steering enhances the response by quickening that steering ratio at slow vehicle speeds, which includes most cornering and tight handling conditions (as well as parking, which is irrelevant to me personally). A faster steering ratio is The PERFECT solution for slow to moderate vehicle speeds. Most interestingly and incredibly, the Active Steering also enhances performance by slowing its steering ratio at high vehicle speeds, to provide steadiness and stability to the handling... even to the point of a ratio that ends up being slower than the standard steering's ratio. In this case, the slower steering ratio is PERFECT for very high vehicle speeds.

    So.. the A.S. provides a steering ratio that adjusts in direct response to vehicle speed, within a range that goes from a much quicker more-responsive steering ratio at slow vehicle speeds, where needed, to a slower less-responsive steering ratio at very-high vehicle speeds, which enhances vehicle stability. Unlike the fears of a steering system that is unpredictable, the more responsive steering ratios of the A.S. system become extremely intuitive, natural, and seamless in their feel, as they are directly proportional to the vehicle's speed. In addition to these terrific ratio adjustments, the A.S. system is tied in to the vehicle's stability system, so that in the event of an emergency maneuver, the driver's sudden reactions will be stabilized as necessary to avoid typical driver over-reaction of the steering wheel.

    In addition to the terrific ratio changes, and vehicle stability, the Active Steering system's brilliant design inherently maintains road feel. Mechanical connection is always present to assure road feel. I absolutely love the Active Steering in my 135i. When I had the first 135i Coupe without it, I was kind of disappointed with the slow steering ratio and sluggish response. Of course, I loved the car enough to forgive it, but it was still there regardless. It was particularly noticeable when I switched from the Porsche to the BMW. At those moments, the difference was horrible. The Porsche's fantastic responsive steering put the standard BMW's to shame. But the addition of Active Steering in my current BMW 135i convertible has changed all that. It is absolutely awesome.

    Yes, you said that it is totally subjective. And, I agree. But, I really want to make sure that everyone here knows the facts about Active Steering. It has been one of the most misunderstood features of the BMW for quite a while. The reason for this is that it is an expensive option. When confronted with that, most people believe that the standard BMW steering must be good enough. In addition, the dealers don't order it on most occassions for their inventoried cars. Again, it's due largely to the price, and since there are often few cars in inventory with A.S. installed, there is slim chance to test drive an Active Steering equipped vehicle. Most folks don't want to take the "chance", so they discover that the standard steering really isn't all that bad, and they end up not ordering the Active Steering, which is an awesome option, if it can be afforded

    That all said, it does take a little getting used to. The first short trip in a vehicle with Active Steering is likely confusing and will feel unusual. After a while, though, it is the only way to fly!

    If anyone here wants to know more about Active Steering, please feel free to ask. I may very well be one of the only posters here that has a genuine hands-on ownership experience with BMW's Active Steering.

    I love my BMW 135i convertible, as you all know, but many of you had no idea that I so much appreciate the enhanced performance provided by its Active Steering.

    Here is a video which will educate anyone that is interesting in learning the interesting truth about BMW's Active Steering...

    BMW Active Steering Video

    God Bless BMW and BMW Active Steering. ;)

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    TM
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    The TSX is a capable car, less balanced than my 3, but once I got used to it, it can be as safe as my BMW. But, and its a big one, I just cant push it the same way I pushed my beemer. (to be fair the front wheeler TSX is easier to drive in snow than any RWD 3er I know)

    m4d_cow,

    I'm very sorry to have to straighten you out tonight, but I promise it's with all due respect. ;)

    First, I had to straighten you out regarding BMW's Active Steering. And now, your reference to your BMW as a "beemer" can be considered a criminal offense in some circles... LOL.

    So... the truth is...

    A "Beemer" is a BMW motorcycle.

    A "Bimmer" is a BMW car.

    There!! Now, you have the facts in your possession. You are armed and dangerous. ;)

    TM
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    You decide.

    Not feeling the front lip.

    The rear lip is okay but not great.

    Love the rims though.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    You decide.

    No thanks. A proper design doesn't need a bunch of tacky "Fast and Furious" bits thrown on. Doing this kind of thing to an Aston or Maserati should be treated as criminal. Also, 10 bucks say the front tires rub when the wheel is at full lock.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    But the feel is different, for instance: with the 3 you can brake gradually, smoothly and still stop at, say 100ft. You can do the same in G35, but the brakes are grabby its hard to brake smoothly.

    If anybody has grabby brakes, its BMW. My wife's X3 isn't even the worst of the BMW lot, and its still difficult to roll up to a red light smoothly, something that is no problem with my Jag or Audi, or in any of the Infinitis I've tested recently.

    I remember hating the AS system in the 545i I drove. It was changing ratios wildly in the 20-40mph range, you would go to make a turn and wonder "what's it going to do this time?". Road feel compared to the standard 5 was also MIA. Tag says the system is great in the 1 though, so they've either hugely improved it in the last couple of years, or the 1 just has a better system. At some point I'll have to drive a new 5 with AS to be sure.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Grabby brakes? I have none!

    Grabbiest brakes I ever drove? The Lexus LS460 L I tested. Horrible.
    Second grabbiest? My previous FJ Cruiser.
    Third... My wife's MDX.

    My Active Steering has no wild ratio swings as you questioned. That would be unnacceptable and undesireable. If it wasn't simply awesome, I wouldn't have purchased it. Road feel isn't missing in action, but the steering is easier and feels a bit lighter than the non-AS. I'd prefer a little "heavier" feel, given the choice. Is it perfect? Maybe not, but it's benefits far outweigh any nit-picking.

    The first miles behind the wheel with AS are weird. Feedback seems different... Heck, it IS different! But, after getting acclimated, I was hooked. Now, realize that if the 1er's standard steering wasn't so pitifully slow (it's ratio), I would not have had any real reasons to pursue the alternative, and ultimately have purchased the AS.

    I wouldn't want it in my Porsche, for example. Choosing AS depends upon the quality of the vehicle's standard steering. In my case, AS is a HUGE improvement. Hope that's a little clearer!

    TM
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    OW,

    As much as I love the 1er 'vert, the Schnitzer mods aren't my favorites. I'm with Lou and LG. If you want to see some incredible pics, however, PM me, and I'll set you in the right direction, cause they are WAY too big for this forum's limits.

    TM
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Look no further!! :blush:

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  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,369
    I got it...the look just grabbed me. Understand the tacked on stuff isn't the best.

    Regards,
    OW
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