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Luxury Lounge

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  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    No its not a new model, they said its been around since 2004. The look is kinda boring indeed, but what Camry isnt??? The interior? the same, but the notable difference is the fit-finish, which is a million years better than american built camry. I'm baffled, a 3rd world country builds camrys better than america.....

    No, its not a 3rd world Country! its originally made in Japan!

    Any1 seen the bmw x6, cayenne gts, and cls video, which I posted???!!!
  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    Currently my list is becoming longer and longer, thanks to BIG and TM pulling out different (very tempting) suggestions.
    A5 / 335i coupe / 6series / CLS
    XJ / E350 / A6 / A8 / 750i / 335i sedan


    Your list is very confusing :confuse:

    A5 and 6 series are large a 2 door coupe.

    CLS is also a coupe but 4 door! looks attractive, don't like the interior.

    E350 no,nope,never, unless the new redesign gets better.

    335i is a small coupe.

    A6 sedan is midsize,

    A8 and 750li large sedans.

    If you want a coupe, I suggest 6series and the A5,

    Sedan, A8.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Yeah, bmlexus makes a good point. The list is too vast.

    Sure, there are some nice vehicles out there... And your list incudes some of them, but it's time to weed through them.

    Actually, when the dust settles, there is one vehicle that stands out, and is a genuine benchmark, year after year, and is also a tremendous sales success... That vehicle is the BMW 3-Series. Coupe or sedan, It offers the right mix of interior comfort, luxury, features, and passenger capacity... as well as incredible style, major fun-factor, and superior performance.

    It's almost too obvious! :)

    TM
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    esf, are you really willing to spend $51k for an A4? Because that's how much the new A4 3.2 cost when loaded, yes even costlier than a loaded 335i. I like the A4, but the unreasonable pricing convinced me to cross it off my list. On the new entries: hellooww CLS.

    I'm surprised that you've eliminated the A4, but not the A5. I didn't ask, but I would be surprised if Audi dealers are negotiating on that car. Loaded up, its well over $50K.

    There's no reason to consider the 3 coupe and the 6. One is good, one isn't. If you're looking for a big GT cruiser, there are MUCH better choices than the 6 series. Jag XK, for one. The CLS is an E-class with a pretty dress on, so eliminate the E-class. Who wants to take one of the ugly sisters to the ball? You also need to decide whether you want performance with limited space (3) a compromise between the two (CLS, A6) or a big luxury car (XJ, A8, 7). Do that first, then worry about which one to get.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Since you bring up the question of rear space, the Jag XK's rear space is almost useless. By contrast, the 3-Series has useable rear space, and a terrific blend of everything else that makes it a car worth owning, at a price that doesn't kill a budget.

    You are right about the E-Class. It's not the value it used to be known for. I'd stay away.

    And, after a lot of posts, I think we all agree the XJ is the steal of the century.

    All said, though, the 3-Series is a car that's hard to beat.

    TM
  • 45K is enough reason to drop the A5 from the list, but think it is in it's 2nd MY now. Not sure what, if anything was fixed, but now offers adaptive suspension/dampening, which the 08 did not.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Your next car a Honda hybrid CR-Z :surprise:

    When you do get that Honda I will meet you at the track with my soon-to-be Prius with its nasty looking rear spoiler and an external and internal audio system that duplicates the revs of a Lambo or Ferrari.

    Let's race to the finish line. This will be one of the greenest and greatest Al Gore endorsed races of the 21st century. I dont think there will be any need for us to wear helmets or for us to feel any guilt whatsoever about those melting icebergs. ;)

    After driving extensively with my diesel spewing 83 MB 300D I may be faced with eternal punishment since the Vatican has recently declared that environmental pollution is a new deadly sin. I am hoping that a Prius will be my ticket to Purgatory or at least there is some kind of "Grandfather Clause" related to this new officially declared sin. :(

    NEW DEADLY SINS ACCORDING TO THE VATICAN

    image
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    There is a grain of truth in your post.
    No make that a boulder of truth. :sick:
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Since you bring up the question of rear space, the Jag XK's rear space is almost useless. By contrast, the 3-Series has useable rear space, and a terrific blend of everything else that makes it a car worth owning, at a price that doesn't kill a budget.

    Indeed, I was really just mentioning the XK as an alternative to the BMW 6 series. I just don't see any reason to buy a 6, not when there are alternatives like the Jag, or the 911, SL, etc. The 5 is IMO more attractive and better to drive than the 6, and a heck of a lot more practical.

    Infiniti, Audi, Lexus, and Mercedes are definitely well aware of how tough the 3 series is to beat. The 3.0TT is an exceptional engine, and the recently refreshed car has the latest version of iDrive which may mitigate the car's biggest weakness.

    An A4 3.0T S-line with ADS would have a fighting chance against the 335i, but I wonder if Audi will do one since the S4 will only have 333hp, and the same engine. I'm not sure what the plan is there.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    In fact my BMW 335i is even better than the new 3 series with the latest iDrive and that is only due to the fact that my BMW doesn't have iDrive to begin with.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Posts: 1,491
    NO, no, I forgot to mention this (though I did earlier): it doesnt have to be brand new. A CPO will do just fine.
    Thanks for the suggestions though, helps me think and narrow down the choices.

    bmlexus, I forgot to post this follow-up on the x6's twin turbo.
    I couldnt relocate the website so far, but I have this piece of info from the local dealer's mechanic. I'm allowed to post this as long as his name remains anonymous. Here goes:
    There's been a few complaints overseas about the twin turbo's durability on the 3l engine. Most filed complaints saying the engine somehow overheats after extended driving of 2 hours or more. It appears that the problem remains with the turbo being unsuitable to pull the x6's extra weight. Problem is, the twin turbo's initially developed for lighter sedans and coupes, not for anything heavier than the 5 series. In case you dont know yet, bmw actually expect the majority of takers to treat the X6 as a fashionista's cruiser, not an s-bend blaster.
    It is said that the newer x6 comes with the revised version of the turbo, along with 2009 products. One thing I havent been able to confirm is whether US bound X6 already get this turbo. The x6 reached the other markets many months sooner than America's, which lead to my assumption of hasty underdeveloped turbos on earlier models. Until there's confirmation I do advice you and all your friends to stay off cuz the turbo's really costly to fix. This is strictly for the 6-cyl turbo, the v8 turbo is pretty much from scratch and will likely do better.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    In fact my BMW 335i is even better than the new 3 series with the latest iDrive and that is only due to the fact that my BMW doesn't have iDrive to begin with.

    LOL. That's funny.

    But... I like my iDrive... I really do. And the new one looks to be sweet.

    Now, on the subject of those hybrids. The picture of the next Toyota Prius has accidently leaked out, and the car looks essentially the same on the exterior with a few minor areas where Toyota messed it up... like that horrible Yaris-looking front end. Pathetic. The interior, however, looks improved slightly.

    image

    image

    The Honda Insight is much better looking, especially the front end, rear lights, and the wheels... but, the Prius likely has a better powertrain and the ability to run at slow speeds on all-battery, which historically the Honda hybrids really don't do very well.

    image

    image

    image

    TM
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Posts: 1,491
    "No, its not a 3rd world Country! its originally made in Japan! "

    Its designed in Japan but its built locally in Indonesia and Thailand. Also built locally in America, thats why such disparity in build quality baffles me. The ones they have here are much much quieter than the american built ones, and no rattles... I'm very, very disappointed with america.

    Tag, dont you think the next Toyota Prius' face awfully resembles a car called Toyota Belta?
    Its funny how so many people are driving the same car here, most are seen nowhere in US, like this Toyota called Innova (somekind of crossover MPV), Nissan Livina (I think its called Note in Japan), and loads of pink Honda Jazz (aka Fit in US). Even funnier as most of the pink cars I see here are driven by men.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    but, the Prius likely has a better powertrain and the ability to run at slow speeds on all-battery, which historically the Honda hybrids really don't do very well.

    Initially IMA couldn't do that at all. The newest version in the Civic Hybrid and Insight has the ability to deliver a very limited amount of electrical power alone, but its nothing compared to the Volt (if GM can stay in business long enough to produce any) and the new Prius. The Insight's real advantage is its price. It should undercut the Prius by several thousand, and the Volt by over $20,000. Honda should have no trouble selling every last one.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Also built locally in America, thats why such disparity in build quality baffles me.

    Mercedes has the exact same problem. The ML was riddled with problems from day one, before the quality nightmares infected the rest of the German built range. The Alabama Benz interiors also don't measure up in terms of quality. The Spartanburg, SC built X5 also had horrendous quality in its first few years, but BMW seems to have improved that plant.

    That doesn't necessarily mean that a plant in Germany or Japan is automatically going to build a quality car though. The Mexican built VWs are infamous, but the Passat is built in Germany and has had more than its share of problems. The Canadian built Lexus RX has maintained its stellar reputation, while the Japanese built GS has become a piece of junk.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Posts: 1,491
    I know, guys, thats the real problem, I have no real preference in type or certain model as long as it fits the top3 criteria :style, performance, and comfort. However a backseat is a must, slightly snug is ok, wont use it regularly anyway.
    XK fails to meet the backseat criteria. I remember saying the back wasnt all that useless, I was wrong, I'm only 5'8 of course theres still room back there if I were driving.

    After plenty of thinking, the Slade is definitely off the list (after watching my neighbor's 07 slade falling apart). The A5 will most likely go bye-bye too, I'm concerned with the curse of 1st MY, and I dont think being CPOed will help at all. If I lose interest in x5 next time, then there will be no SUV left on my list.
    The xj, despite the aging looks, creep up my priority list non-stop. Too good to miss, I dare say...
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    The new Prius looks hideous and makes the current one look like a beaut.

    It's either you hate it or you hate it less. I hate it more. This Prius is timid looking with its sub-economy Yaris looks.

    The Honda? At least it looks better.

    Their mileage will be my benchmark in terms of choosing which one.

    BUT I may end up buying a Lexus Prius assuming it will be differentiated with a better battery(litium ion versus nickel carbide) and AWD.

    If not I just may buy a hybrid Honda instead.

    I dont know about you folks but driving a spanking new luxury car would be a career killer in my case. Visiting my clients with a spanking new Porsche 911 while their net worths are shrinking and shrivelling would make me feel somewhat uncomfortable

    At least If I drive that ugly new Prius it shows that I am feeling their pain.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,380
    Ah, you are at the leading edge of the new reality. The Luxury Lounge will change from now on!

    Regards,
    OW
  • Actually, when the dust settles, there is one vehicle that stands out, and is a genuine benchmark, year after year, and is also a tremendous sales success... That vehicle is the BMW 3-Series. Coupe or sedan, It offers the right mix of interior comfort, luxury, features, and passenger capacity... as well as incredible style, major fun-factor, and superior performance.

    It's almost too obvious


    I have to disagree big time on passenger capacity. I love the 3 series, but unless you are a single person I see almost no usability in the 3 series. For me, a 5 series is too small between carting around my 2 kids and clients. That's why I sold my GS400 to go to an A8L. I would have looked at the XJ as well but my mother has one (2002) so I wanted to keep things different. Otherwise it would have been a serious contender with the A8 (if only the XJ had AWD).
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I have both an XJ in the long-wheelbase Vanden Plas edition, and a 1-Series... so, when it comes to rear passenger comfort, the XJ rules. Only a handful of other cars (such as your A8L) provide similar rear passenger accommodations. Now, my 1-Series is a convertible, so that makes it even tighter than a 1er coupe, which is tighter than a 3-Series. But my kids do seem to manage in the back of my 1-Series, and with the additional rear room in the 3-Series, I really have no reservations in recommending a 3-Series with its larger rear capacity.

    Now, that all said, I do fully understand that the rear space in a 3-Series isn't ideal by any means, and I do have a long-wheelbase XJ for comparison, but I do believe that it (3-Series) has adequate interior room and is functional enough to give the car full consideration as a primary vehicle.

    Could it be that your beautiful A8L has spoiled you? ;)

    TM
  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    This is strictly for the 6-cyl turbo, the v8 turbo is pretty much from scratch and will likely do better

    All along I thought the inline 6 was the better car to choose, but your post has changed all that.

    So the v8 is the better choice, but everything will be more expensive for the v8.

    Thanks for remembering and replying.

    After hearing troubles after troubles, I am not sure anymore about this x6,

    The x5 naturally asp hasn't been replaced yet, will it be?

    Will the next gen 5 seri have a turbo engine?

    My dealer told me the next gen 5 seri won't have turbo engine, but I really don't think he has any knowledge whatsoever.
  • bmlexusbmlexus Posts: 755
    Its designed in Japan but its built locally in Indonesia and Thailand. Also built locally in America,

    Australia as well.

    Has any1 noticed? Honda quality, interior,exterior, styling, keeps getting better than Toyota.

    Has Toyota forgotten its brand?maybe competing to much against other luxury brands with their Lexus!
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Has any1 noticed? Honda quality, interior,exterior, styling, keeps getting better than Toyota.

    That statement, my friend, is very interesting. I'll have to think on it for a while... It's true for some models, but not true for others. In some Honda interiors, the design is great, but the quality of materials is lousy. In some Toyota models, the interior design is stale, but the quality of its materials is reasonably good. Same inconsistency applies to the exterior designs as well. I mean, it's hard to believe that the Pilot has taken a design turn for the worse, and yet the CR-V is an amazing SUV. The Ridgeline is a smart truck that is pathetic looking, to put it nicely. And the Element is even too weird for generation X, Y, or Z. LOL. Toyota's SUVs and trucks couldn't possibly be more boring. The Corolla and Yaris are horrible looking. The upcoming Prius is messed up with that badge that is connected to the hood's leading edge... a terrible design idea that ruins the front end of Toyotas that are adorned with the ugly thing. It makes them resemble a Yaris. The FJ Cruiser Frankenstein SUV has been cancelled, and for good reason.

    The Civic is a highly successful vehicle, and I have always been a supporter of this latest generation Civic. I personally think it is one of the smartest small economy cars ever built, although a little better use of materials inside would help out, IMO.

    There's way too much here to talk about. Like I said, your statement is a big one. I haven't even touched the tip of the iceberg, considering that there are additional models to discuss, and that there is also the Acura and Lexus divisions that could be compared in terms of design and materials. Poking at Acura would be all too easy, and that would counter your statement that Honda is gaining on Toyota in terms of design and materials, at least as far as the Acura division goes.

    Anyway, lots more to discuss on the comparison of recent trends with Honda and Toyota.

    BTW, do you agree with me that Honda's Insight kicks the Prius in the butt?

    TM
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Curious, did your tester have the sport suspension?

    No, it did not. I don't think that would've changed my decision though :P

    Speaking of the C5 A6 (last-gen), one day I met up with somebody else who works in my office who was driving a 4.2 (I had a 2000 A6 2.7T at the time). Both were black and you could barely tell them apart. We switched cars for the day. The smoothness and torque of the V8 were nice, but I came away thinking I had made the better choice. I think he agreed with me.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    esf, are you really willing to spend $51k for an A4? Because that's how much the new A4 3.2 cost when loaded, yes even costlier than a loaded 335i. I like the A4, but the unreasonable pricing convinced me to cross it off my list. On the new entries: hellooww CLS.

    Huh? When did I say this? The A4 3.2, like just about every other 3.2-spec Audi, is a waste of money. Unless you REALLY need the smoothness of a six-cylinder engine (in which case I would tell you to get a BMW), the '09 A4 2.0T blows it out of the water. It gives you more torque, a decent amount of power (more with a simple ECU flash), a feeling of agility that the 3.2 lacks, and best of all, great MPGs. It gets better mileage than any other car in its class (328i, IS250, C300) by a very wide margin... AND the best acceleration. Sounds like a winning combo to me.

    However, I think the A4 3.0TDI will be an even better choice when it arrives in the next few months.

    I would write off the E350 because it's going to be replaced so soon. I know you can get a great deal but it's really painfully low-tech these days and while it's a very pleasant car it's not a particularly impressive performer. It's a buyer's market, so you can get a good deal on ANY luxury car now, short of a GT-R, R8 or Ferrari.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    The Audi A5 is a whopping 1.4 inches longer than the BMW 3 Series coupe.

    It's nine inches shorter than the 6 Series coupe.

    You tell me which one it's closer in size--and price--to.

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Did I miss your return in my absence?

    What made you decide to come back? Great to see you posting here. :)

    '08 BMW X5 4.8i • '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Posts: 1,491
    Ah yes he did mention it, he told me thats exactly the reason theres no turbo 6cyl on the X5 and 7 series so far. OTOH he said a new turbo is coming for 2009, rumor says its already placed in the v8, but not sure if its gonna make it to the 6cyl line. He's unable to confirm anything yet as he's yet to receive further training for the new turbo. I've sked him to keep me informed, lets wait and see what he comes up with later.

    esf, sure the 2.0 is the better deal, but even a loaded 2.0 already cost about $45k. In comparison, a loaded 335i here can be had for $46k tops.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    No, it did not. I don't think that would've changed my decision though

    If you've never tried the current 4.2 S-line, you really should. I've driven the C5 A6 on three occasions, a 2.8, a 4.2, and the 2.7T S-line. The 2.8 was an absolute slug, and probably the most boring German car I've ever driven. It was like a big Teutonic Camry. The 4.2 (non sport) was better, at least the power problem was solved, but it resisted quick direction changes and really didn't like to be pushed. It basically felt like it had one of those "16 Ton" weights from the old cartoons welded to the front bumper.

    The 2.7T S-line on the other hand was quite enjoyable and fun to drive. Maybe not a match for a 540i Sport, but it was much better than the old E430, and definitely the best of the C5 generation short of the old RS6.

    The C6 is heavier, larger, and more "mature" than the C5, and I agree that the standard suspension setup (as before) is boring. The sport suspension really does make a big improvement though. The 3.2 S-line would probably be the better handler, but there just isn't quite enough power for all that mass. The new 3.0T S-line will finally be a proper replacement for the old 2.7T, but the 4.2 S-line really isn't bad. No, it's not as fun as an XF, 5, or M45 Sport, but the A6 never was the sportiest car in its class.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    he told me thats exactly the reason theres no turbo 6cyl on the X5 and 7 series so far.

    Um, the new 7 already has the 3.0L TT engine. It's called the 740i, and produces 326hp and 332ft.lbs.
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