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Luxury Lounge

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Comments

  • rockshocka1rockshocka1 Member Posts: 310
    First off, I'm no audiophile. But the iPod interface in my car works fine for me (I have read complaints). The only issue for me is the 'cheap' build of the location of the interface. The glovebox is fine to plug in the unit, but the tray provided is more fragile than the dining tray in coach on an airplane. I can see it breaking w/o too much effort.

    If I'm feeling nostalgic, maybe I'll try to find some cd's this weekend. ;-)
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    Hi dewey,

    I am tired of reading bad things about bmws, especially the x6 which is the only bmw car that I am interested in. :cry:

    Whenever I see the x6, I don't want anything other, but after reading troubles after troubles after troubles, :cry:

    I don't know anymore.

    The only other bmw I like is the 5series, which will be redesigned within a year.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I sat in a 135i at the dealers the same day I bought the 328i, but didn't get a chance to drive it. Because I consider all of the twin turbo BMW vehicles impractical for USA driving (speeding tickets,etc;), not very good on fuel economy and quite trouble-prone, I would only consider the 128i.

    I am eager to compare the 128i coupe to my 328i sedan. I do have a feeling I would prefer the 128i. The problem is finding a 128i. Most dealers seem to stock only the 135i.

    After driving a 545i for three years and being frustrated at leaving around thirty per-cent of the vehicle's potential untapped, I will no longer consider ultra-powerful vehicles like the 135i and 335i....although I have to admit.... I was on the Porsche website today and did a search for a 2008 CPO Cayman and found a silver beauty in Atlanta for $41,500 with only 6,000 miles.

    I've got to stop doing that!!! :)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Yes. Now folks are getting up in arms about irresponsible folks signing up for too much house and about to get mortgage bailout assistance. I don't blame the poor souls who bought the houses. I blame the irresponsible bankers who allowed them to get mortgages they couldn't qualify for. Instead of bailing out the banks, bring criminal charges against the irresponsible bankers and throw them all in jail. Then auction off their Ferraris, Porsches and Lambos so you and I can pick them up cheap!

    See you at the auction! ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I never had the privilege of driving an E46 M3. I'm sure it must have been wonderful! (For the benefit of readers who know little about BMW product development, the E46 three Series models were being produced from 1996 through 2006 and specifically, the E46 M3's were being produced from 2001 through 2006.)
    Even so, I would feel uncomfortable driving such a powerful car, always anxious that I am about to get "pulled over." One really needs track access to fully enjoy a BMW M3 or even a 335i Coupe.

    Twice on the interstate within the last six months or so, I have driven behind two E90 M3 sedans (2008) and my reaction both times was a quietly whispered "wow!"

    By the way, of my three 3 Series vehicles, I do consider my 2002 E46 325i the best all around-great styling, uncomplicated interior controls and the best handling.
    The day I had to return it (3 year lease) was tough!
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Charlie,

    Agree completely. I regret the day I took the Infiniti G w/o nav or back-up camera. I subsequently dropped $350 on an in car nav for my sun. I would imagine that over 3 years I'd have paid triple that but I'd have had a back-up camera as an added safety feature for a young driver. Once you get a taste of these features you appreciate them and can't do without them. The Lexus auto park is one I would label a bloated excess and worthless which is why I passed it up.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Charlie,

    Agree completely. I regret the day I took the Infiniti G w/o nav or back-up camera. I subsequently dropped $350 on an in car nav for my sun. I would imagine that over 3 years I'd have paid triple that but I'd have had a back-up camera as an added safety feature for a young driver. Once you get a taste of these features you appreciate them and can't do without them. The Lexus auto park is one I would label a bloated excess and worthless which is why I passed it up.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I regret the day I took the Infiniti G w/o nav or back-up camera. I subsequently dropped $350 on an in car nav for my sun. I would imagine that over 3 years I'd have paid triple that but I'd have had a back-up camera as an added safety feature for a young driver. Once you get a taste of these features you appreciate them and can't do without them. The Lexus auto park is one I would label a bloated excess and worthless which is why I passed it up.

    Len,

    I agree. I've posted many times about my affection for most of the high-tech goodies and features, but I honestly have to draw the line with that auto-park feature. Maybe clembo is right about the adaptive cruise control, but I guess I'm not all that impressed when cars start driving and parking themselves.

    As far as Bluetooth goes, it's the law in California to use a hands-free system, so it's not a big deal here any more. NAV is also fairly common nowadays, and even the back-up camera is starting to get more common as well. Heck, even my previous (I sold it, BTW) F-150 pickup truck had Bluetooth, NAV, satellite radio, front & rear-seat entertainment, iPOD connectivity, as well as a backup camera and other electronic goodies.

    That said, when it comes to all these electronic features... as usual, it boils down to personal preference.

    TM
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Misery loves company and at least I know that my BMW is not the only :lemon: out there.

    I still do not understand what the point of the X6 is. In any sort of "real" off-roading, it will be humiliated by a Range Rover or LX570, and it will probably get stuck very quickly, so it's a bad SUV. It's not attractive, or a proper GT, so coupe is out. Nor is it as practical as a luxury sedan. What does the X6 do well? Who is it for?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    What does the X6 do well? Who is it for?

    LOL... that's still a big mystery. Although I think the answer is
    1. Nothing.
    2. No one.

    TM
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Would the hybrids coming from domestic manufacturers (like the highly publicized Ford Fusion Hybrid or the "mild hybrid" Aura/Malibu from GM) warrant a first or second glance?

    From what I've seen, the Fusion hybrid is a very impressive effort, and definitely worth considering for those looking at a Camry or Altima hybrid. It's a couple of hundred pounds heavier than it should be, but it still manages to out frugal the Camry in a more interesting package.

    The GM "mild hybrids" are pretty much the exact opposite. Pathetic, half-effort "me too" products with barely improved mileage over the standard four-cylinders. They have been absolutely slammed by the normally very timid and malleable US car mags, and rightly so.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    ...the Fusion hybrid is a very impressive effort... ...The GM "mild hybrids" are pretty much the exact opposite. Pathetic...

    Yes... the Ford hybrid is the real deal. GM's is pathetic. Ford even went to extra lengths to use special glass in their Fusion hybrid to keep it nice and quiet. The car deserves serious consideration.

    TM
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    The GM "mild hybrids" are pretty much the exact opposite. Pathetic, half-effort "me too" products with barely improved mileage over the standard four-cylinders. They have been absolutely slammed by the normally very timid and malleable US car mags, and rightly so.

    I think one of the things they have going for them is that they invoke less of a price premium over a standard ICE drivetrain. Their main claim to fame is the autostart/stop feature, which turns the engine off at lights. Remember, idling is 0 mpg.

    Incidentally, "Eco-Boost" vehicles, Ford's marketing for turbos and direct injection (think BMW 335-ish) are planning to incorporate this feature as well. They cite a 3-5% increase in fuel economy from, well, turning the car off when you aren't using it.
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Regarding BMW I like very much Series 5, 3 and 1. Sure is it because having owned/driven items of each I have greatly enjoyed every one.

    Aesthetically, my favorite is Series 3 Coupe and then Series 5, both Sedan and Touring. (Yes, I wrote Series 5; may be I am an alien, am I not?) I also like Series 1 but in particular hatched models. (Again, there seems to be water in Mars and… who knows? :shades: )

    Having driven neither X5 nor X3, I could not say many things of them for better or for worst. As I have not seen any X6 'in vivo', I have not opinion either.

    But I do not like any SUV in particular. Too much weight and volume for too little interior space. Too much consume for too little sportiveness. I'd rather buy a good old Land Rover, or Jeep, or similar, if I needed an all-land vehicle.

    Regards,
    Jose
    (BTW, I've looked for the translation of 'marciano', an inhabitant of Mars, in the on-line Merrian-Webster dictionary and this is what I've found: "No entries found that match marciano. Here is a list of similar words. 3 entries found. Neoyorquina, Neoyorquino. New Yorker." :confuse: )
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    BMW saves its best interior for the X5. VW does the same for its Touareg 2 SUV, which competes in the luxury mid-sized SUV category.

    How does VW sell vehicles with such weird hard to spell and pronounce names? Yet, they do. Amazing!

    The 2009 Touareg V6 TDI looks like it can be a winner and has already received terrific reviews. Should be in showrooms by spring.
  • lookingforcarslookingforcars Member Posts: 18
    looking for feedback on which car people think is a better car to buy. looks like price point is about the same for each, perhaps the A6 is even a little cheaper. :confuse:
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I think the hard drive based systems are foolish as well, as then you are required to rip all your CDs to the hard drive in the vehicle after you already ripped them to your computer (or downloaded the songs) and then transfered them to your personal music player.

    I actually like HDD based systems the best. Most new luxury cars use a hard drive to read the NAV data, as it allows for more storage and much faster processing than a DVD. If you already have a HDD in there anyway, why not let me copy my music to it?

    iPod cables are great if you have an iPod, useless if you don't. I have no interest in iTunes and iPods, so the only alternative for me without a HDD is either the CD player, or a horrible sounding universal "aux-input" jack.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    BMW saves its best interior for the X5.

    Actually, it appears that the X5 was the start of a new interior theme for BMW, in much the same way that the '05 A6 started Audi's new theme. The new 7's interior is almost exactly like the X5's, and based on the 5 series hatchback concept, it looks like the next 5 series will be the same inside as well.
  • bmlexusbmlexus Member Posts: 755
    Does anyone know when exactly is the new 5seri coming?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Circlew,

    here's my second response to that Luxury vs. Prius article.

    In the United States, traditionally the most lucrative auto market, Mercedes sales plunged 42.9 percent and Cadillac sales slumped 42.5 percent in January, compared with the overall market's 37.1 percent drop. Bentley sales were off 74.7 percent, while Porsche's fell 36.1 percent

    There is only one problem with the above statistics and that is they are not compared with hybrid statistics. It just so happens that total hybrid sales have recently been falling far more than luxury sales.

    So maybe this notion that a Prius or a any hybrid is a new status symbol may not be the case.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I am tired of reading bad things about bmws, especially the x6 which is the only bmw car that I am interested in. :cry:

    Sorry to break your heart but if you are a BMW X6 fan than you are the only X6 fan in this forum.

    A heartbreak hotel for X6 fans is what this forum really is. :)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Can you imagine engine/platform sharing between a MB E Class and a BMW 5 Series? Can you imagine cross-ownership between Daimler and BMW?

    The rumor below is just a rumor. But as we all know many rumours in these troubled times becomes reality real fast. Both BMW and MB will go through major stresses as the luxury markets continues being battered.

    Speculation grew on prospects of engine- and platform-sharing, huge cost reductions, and even cross-ownership. A February 16 Commerzbank report estimated that cooperation in purchasing, research and development, and financial services could generate annual savings, after taxes, of up to €3 billion ($3.75 billion), or €1.10 per Daimler share and €1.60 per BMW share.

    link title
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    As far as Bluetooth goes, it's the law in California to use a hands-free system, so it's not a big deal here any more.

    It's a very big deal here in Canada. But than again we are usually a decade or a century behind you sophisticated Californians. I am so excited about actually having a 6 CD changer on my dash. Finally I arrived in the 1990s. Better late than never.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    iPod cables are great if you have an iPod, useless if you don't. I have no interest in iTunes and iPods, so the only alternative for me without a HDD is either the CD player, or a horrible sounding universal "aux-input" jack.

    The aforementioned "SYNC" system available from Ford will let you access any USB based media. It will use the "tags" associated with MP3s to index your USB jump drive and still give you voice access by artist, album or title. No iPod, no iTunes. It even works with the Zune (allowing the Zune works at all). This is also digitally based music until the head unit converts it to audio, as opposed to having the audio signal degrade along the way (like the Mini and others).

    I guess with the HDD thing has its place. I personally have all my music on my computer, and a subset of that on my iPod. Given how long it took me to get all that music on the computer, I have no desire to go through that experience again to get it into my car.

    I agree about the headphone based aux-in jack. My MIL's Prius had that and I found the sound quality to be very poor, especially if the phone charger was connected anywhere in the car.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I was on the Porsche website today and did a search for a 2008 CPO Cayman and found a silver beauty in Atlanta for $41,500 with only 6,000 miles.

    Very tempting but it's probably gone very soon!

    Anyway, just the handling alone on the 135'er is phenomenal. The power could well be left untapped from a higher % standpoint, but the overall balance is worth it to me.

    Had the economy not forced me to take a rain check, one would be sitting in my garage today.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    So maybe this notion that a Prius or a any hybrid is a new status symbol may not be the case.

    Yes, I know you are right on the falling sales of the hybrids due to the plunge in gas prices. Just wait a few months when gas creeps or should I say bolts to over $2.50/gal. in the spring. People will not soon forget the severe pain caused by the volatile price of gasoline....well, not the smart ones anyway.

    I would venture the sheer increase in tech that the hybrids represent are the future "gotta have one" trend as the economic trends reverse and guess what sling shots back over $4.00/gallon.

    Only the wise with a distant view of the horizon will lead the way down the road of energy transformation. ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116

    Yes, I know you are right on the falling sales of the hybrids due to the plunge in gas prices. Just wait a few months when gas creeps or should I say bolts to over $2.50/gal. in the spring. People will not soon forget the severe pain caused by the volatile price of gasoline....well, not the smart ones anyway.

    I would venture the sheer increase in tech that the hybrids represent are the future "gotta have one" trend as the economic trends reverse and guess what sling shots back over $4.00/gallon.

    Only the wise with a distant view of the horizon will lead the way down the road of energy transformation

    I think a hybrid has always been about more than saving money at the pump. There are cheaper more direct ways to save money on gas, this is about reducing consumption, reducing a dependence on a foreign oil supply, making a political statement, etc.

    That said, combined with OW's points, I am particularly motivated to get a fun, enjoyable car now, since it looks like fuel prices will increase and political pressures will drive anything fun out of the market. $2 gas doesn't hurt me as much as $4 gas, and $4 gas doesn't hurt me as much as $8 gas. So perhaps now is the last time in my lifetime for a fun ICE vehicle. I don't know if I can swing a used E46 M3 but the more chatter I hear, the more motivated I am to try.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I'll bet if you shopped one, you could get a very decent price. What were the years 2001 -2006?

    2001's range from$20 - 25K with decent mileage up to high $20's to low $40K depending on mileage for 2006's.

    Regards,
    OW
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Last year I was calling for the demise of the BMW 7 Series. Seems like I was a bit premature, as the new 7 is getting marvelous reviews. Looks like the MB S Class has a serious rival.

    If the new 7's interior is anything like the X5's, it will be handsome, masculine and inviting, like the interior of a fine, expensive steakhouse. ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    I'm absolutely sure the 135i coupe is a great vehicle. I had issues with the vehicle's appearance at first after seeing the photos, but like all BMW's, the car looks much better in person, as I saw one at the dealer's and actually sat in it.

    I intend to drive the 135i coupe before the year is out. Logically, the vehicle goes against everything I stand for, based on my experiences with the 545i-translation-I'll probably love it! :) I do wish I kept the 545i. Big mistake giving it up.

    Logic: Drive the 128i. Emotion: Drive the 135i. ;)

    Actually, the Cayman is so low to the ground that at 6'2", I would have to go through a stretching routine before attempting to enter the vehicle. It's not really a good vehicle for me.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Howard,
    I have no doubts whatsover that you would love the 128i or the 135i. As you know, I decided to keep my 135i, and I started driving it again. I am sooooooo happy I am keeping it. It's so much damned fun to drive. Honestly... I truly believe you would never regret getting one. :shades:

    image

    :D

    TM
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I am so excited about actually having a 6 CD changer on my dash. Finally I arrived in the 1990s.

    LOL... Well then... I guess it's about time to thow away your 8-track and cassette tapes. :surprise:

    Welcome to the last century. ;)

    Actually, though, your upcoming Prius, if you get one, will catapult you into the most modern times.

    TM
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Speaking of rough plays, MU players were particularly rough on Messi, and compared to Messi (or almost all Barca players for that matter) MU players are gigantic.

    Yeah, Messi, Iniesta and Xavi are short but resilient. I marvel when I see any of them to be physically overwhelmed by the rivals, yet still being able to get the ball controlled at such an incredible speed that the rivals end literally chasing their shadows.

    The referee was not altogether bad, IMO. But I agree in that Ronaldo early deserved the yellow card and then the red one. But the game was also politics, I mean, Ronaldo is FIFA 2008 Best Player and it is not good for a final match to have one of the heroes out of the field. German players have always taken advantage of this by pushing the agressiveness to the limit.

    On the other hand, I am curious on the resemblance of Indonesian and Spanish Grammar rules. Nice to know that. Could you explain a bit more on that?

    Regards,
    Jose
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    The Lexus auto park is one I would label a bloated excess and worthless which is why I passed it up.

    Len,

    I agree about the auto park feature. I have it in my car, but I am almost ashamed to admit I have never used it. It just seems like it is too much of a bother.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    So that's your 135i? Very nice! :)

    Before the year is out I will drive a 1 Series coupe. Like I said, I had issues with the car's appearance from the photos, but had no problem with it in person.

    I have yet to see any 1 Series vehicle on the road in the Tampa area. Doesn't mean much, as there are more pickup trucks down here than any other kind of vehicle.

    It would have been a shame to sell the 135i. It's still practically new!

    Simply put, the 328i is not a lot of fun to drive. It seems to be intended as someone's first BMW-nothing too aggressive and serious: "Hey, look at me, I'm driving a BMW!" Uhhh.....not really! :shades:
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The rumor below is just a rumor. But as we all know many rumours in these troubled times becomes reality real fast. Both BMW and MB will go through major stresses as the luxury markets continues being battered.

    This is where having a mass-market brand below you is a huge advantage. Buyers that can afford to stay with a luxury brand at all are going to be going downwards in the line towards the entry level products, where brands like Audi and Lexus can rely on VW and Toyota for their platforms and engines.

    The only downside is the resulting "x is just a gussied up y" posts in car forums :)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    If the new 7's interior is anything like the X5's, it will be handsome, masculine and inviting, like the interior of a fine, expensive steakhouse.

    It's excellent. Easily the best interior BMW has ever done. While I think the exterior styling of the new 7 is dull and a bit of a step back, the interior is a massive improvement over the old car's which IMO was the worst in the full-lux class. I haven't liked any of Bangle's interiors, and I'm glad to see them go. Even the new Z4 has a superb interior.

    image
    image
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Edition to a former post of myself:

    Of Series 1 I like most the hatched version, and (TM's) 135i Convert. :D

    Regards,
    Jose
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Buyers that can afford to stay with a luxury brand at all are going to be going downwards in the line towards the entry level products


    In my opinion the entry level luxury market is more dependent on prosperity than the upper end luxury market.

    During boom times lower end luxury products grows best. But during bust times upper end Luxury product sales do best versus lower end luxury products. A wealthy man who loses 50 percent of his 25 million dollar portfolio will still be able to afford a MB S Class. While a upper middle class individual who has lost half his net worth and is facing employment and pension insecurities will choose a Toyota Camry over a Lexus ES any day.

    The Baby Benz 190 from the 1980s was a product of prosperity during the 80s. There would never have been a MB C Class today if there was no great prosperity during these past few decades. While the MB S and SL class would still be around even if no prosperity existed.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Wow! I would almost rather sit in a back seat!

    With nav. in the back, my wife can give new meaning to the term "back seat driver."

    I am eagerly waiting to see the first fruits of Adrian Von Hooydonk's BMW design labors.

    Thanks for the photos. :)
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    I would venture the sheer increase in tech that the hybrids represent are the future "gotta have one" trend as the economic trends reverse and guess what sling shots back over $4.00/gallon.

    Assuming gas prices do shoot up the economics of a 3rd generation Prius still does not make sense while the Honda Insight does make sense.

    That is why Toyota has decided to continue selling 2nd generation Priuses at much lower Honda Insight prices.

    And for those green enviro folks will the emissions of a 2nd generation Prius really be so devastating when compared to a 3rd generation Prius? NOPE!

    The 3rd generation Prius is more of a geekmobile for people who want the latest technologies in a non-luxury package. By June 2009 with my Prius delivery I will officially become a designated geek. ;)
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    I consider all of the twin turbo BMW vehicles impractical for USA driving (speeding tickets,etc;), not very good on fuel economy and quite trouble-prone, I would only consider the 128i.

    Are these similar to Dewey's 335 problems, or some thing has to do with the tt engine?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    Recently there was an uproar on the greed of all those oil companies raising prices.

    Now with low prices nobody here is calling oil companies altruists or Corporate Mother Theresas.

    The Truth :Market prices of all commodities go up and down like a YoYo independent of the greed of oil companies.

    Now bankers are the new villians and the heroes are all those folks that were duped into lying about their financial histories and duped into living lifestyles that were far beyond their means. Unfortunately the frugal folks who saved and saved and saved and lived below their means will have to fund those poor innocent duped folks out of their troubles. It just amazes me that so many frugal ones were not even duped by those very very persuasvie greedy bankers.

    Go figure?
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    My twin turbo engine is a gem as confirmed by the many awards it received worldwide as among the best of the best engines.

    Unfortunately almost everything else in my 335i isn't gem-like.

    The reason I am not interested in another performance car is that there are no perforance cars that are equivalent to my 335i in terms of price.

    A Audi S4 or S5 may be superior but at what price $$$.
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    I never said hate BMW. It just that when BMW = Big Money Wasted is written, with no one here jumped to its defence is some that would have never happen a year ago in LL.
    IMHO, every car company makes very good cars these days. So, it is very easy for people to ditch one and found some thing different that fits his needs better.
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    A lot of folks have had fuel pump issues, There have been an unusually large number of complaints from folks who have the 135i and 335i, but strangely not the 535i.

    I'm not sure what kinds of problems Dewey was having with his 335i. I know part of his frustration was not being allowed to drive the vehicle with the exhilaration it deserves. I felt the same when I had the 545i. :(
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    "No one here jumped to its defense" (BMW)

    Sorry. I was away on "sabbatical leave". ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    It has been a long wait but:

    1. the 1 Series line for 2009 is now eligible for the BMWCCA rebate. Given its price range, this will be $500.

    2. the 2009 X6 will be eligible for a $1000 rebate from BMWCCA although who would want this strange, purposeless beast is beyond me.

    To become eligible for a BMWCCA rebate, one must be a member of BMWCCA continuously for at least 12 months at time of purchase or lease.

    After I bought my 328i, I filed and received my $500 check within 3 weeks. :)

    Dues are $40 a year, $15 of which goes to a subscription to "Roundel", one of the world's truly great car magazines.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Agree. And when oil was booming to incredibly high prices that made no sense whatsoever it was big oil companies that were blamed when in fact it was Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs that bought every oil future they could and then had their oil analysts talk up $200 prices and use China as an excuse. It all died when the Saudi's offered the big oil companies ecxclusively 2mln barrels a day at 20% under market price and they had no interest. Goldman and Morgan started dumping immediately and suddenly oil was down 40% in no time, on its way from $147 to $34. If not for the ensuing economic crisis, both Morgan and Goldman would have been investigated for price fraud.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    If not for the ensuing economic crisis, both Morgan and Goldman would have been investigated for price fraud.

    You are SO right! Those SOB's should all be behind bars right now.
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