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Subaru Forester (up to 2005)
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Comments
Does CR use professional drivers for their vehicle tests. I've always been curious since CR's test results (ie. 0-60) tend to be more conservative vis-a-vis car magazines.
Any idea of CR is planning on reviewing the Forester XT?
Ken
As you might expect, CR is a controversial subject here. Some people hate the magazine, others (myself included) find it valuable, if for no other reason, it often sheds light on automotive issues that the car "buff-rags" ignore or sweep under the rug.
Bob
The auto test folks are much more specialized than I am - they do only cars, all the time, at a large private test track we own in CT. Most are former development engineers from car companies (Nissan, Land Rover, GM, Chrysler) or from tire companies. They all love cars, and many of them autocross or have project cars. Unfortunately, our format and demographic, as well as our critical nature, suppresses that enthusiasm.
Our 0-60 times are done more conservatively than other magazines. We drive the cars like we own them - since we do - whereas buff magazines typically drive a lot harder. (Our cars still get driven fairly hard though - especially the S2000 we kept for "track calibration.") Remember, we're also usually testing only automatics as opposed to more manuals by the magazines.
You guys do have a point about the Sorento though - if you need to tow a trailer or go off-road, it might be a better pick than a CR-V, despite where it falls in the scores. We're planning a premium service that will allow readers to make their own scoring criteria weightings - long a source of question from readers and non-readers alike - so that you can rank the cars, using our data, in your own order based on your priorities. It should be quite nice.
I hope we review the Forester XT, and the Acura TSX, and the new Legacy, and the PT Turbo - I get to buy the cars at discount, and I don't quite know what I want.... I don't know what's in the pipeline much beyond September, and we already own those cars. (Besides, I really couldn't tell you anyway, disclaimer or not.)
All opinions my own, not CRs.
Tom
Thanks for sharing. That was very interesting. I've long been a subscriber and wanted to know how things were done behind the scenes. It sounds like a fun place to work -- wow does one get started with CR?
One question I've always had -- how come the reader surveys don't have paid return postage? It sounds silly, but I find that to be a huge barrier in me wanting to fill out the form and mail it back.
Ken
I thought we used to send out a dollar with the survey - I guess we don't do that anymore. I could see how that would be a deterrent. It will soon be able to be done online, although I'm not sure about how all of the details will work. I'm sure minds higher-up in the company have worried extensively about it....
All opinions my own, not CRs.
Tom
CR is not the only magazine to have an odd assortment of cars in a test, including some that seem out of place and leaving other out. Car and Driver does it all the time. There's usually some explanation about models not being available, auto vs. manual, etc.... but it always seems somewhat weak/cheesy to me. It's rare they have a comparison I agree with. Tell you what though, C&D better have an Evo versus STi test!! That's pretty much a no brainer!
BTW, I got a JD Power survey about my WRX. They sent me a crisp dollar bill, which was nice (guilted me into completing the survey sooner than I normally would). Interestingly enough, most of the questions were about the dealership and buying experience. Only 3-4 questions about the car, initial quality, and brand loyalty.
Craig
C&D's June '03 mag has the STi vs. EVO on the front cover. But, they pick the EVO over the STi. Whatever.
-Brian
Craig
Looks like the XT is only 35 lbs heavier than the XS premium. Ground clearance is up 5mm? Same track.
Now the bad news. Not only does it require premium, its mileage goes down from 21/31 to 18/25, according to the Canadian Subaru web site (all my conversions from l/100km, MT). But the US site has 21/27 for the XS? I suspect a typo at the CA web site (again?).
- D.
As for the Trooper and CR, there hasn't been 1 single rollover in real life in the same situation that was presented by CR so I still stand by my assesment that they were way off base. Anyone who knows me, knows that if the Trooper could roll, I'd have done it by now
-mike
It has NEVER failed me.
Bob
The lowest rated vehicle in initial quality was... the Hummer II.
Why? Buyers sited atrocious gas mileage and lots of wind noise as the top two reasons.
Now, I'm all for consumers complaining to try to get vehicles improved, and I'm all for manufacturers listening and trying to improve vehicles.
But should that vehicle, which is so obviously over the top, so pointless, such an ego trip, suffer in its quality ratings because it is what it is? What moron complains about wind noise and mileage in a concrete block shaped, oversized beast?
-mike
Paisan, thanks for your comments. We do try to shape the tone and message of the reporting as much as possible, but as in any business, as a story goes through all of the levels, it can shift in focus. We try as much as possible to get the view of our readers into the pages, but it can be a battle - and we get reams of mail to show it.
The Sorento is scored with the XL7, Xterra, etc on the bar chart in the article. Rather than wait for a group of four very similar SUVs to be introduced, we surveyed the market for new designs, published them in one report, and then incorporated the data for comparsion to the previously tested similar vehicles. It would have been a long wait to find 3 more Baja like vehicles....
All opinions my own, not CRs.
Tom
Those guys @ CR must have driven it at or beyond the point of recklessness then.
I've riden in the Trooper with Paisan at the helm and he hasn't rolled it. If he doesn't roll it, any 'normal' ;-) driver wouldn't, and y'all know Paisan's driving style
-Dave
-Our short list was down to the CRV and Forester. Only feature we wanted was slight recline on back seat, which would make a big difference for adults in the back, but it wasn't a dealbreaker.
Came down to liking the "car" feel and I didn't want a truck. (According to my wife, the only real dealbreaker was heated seats. My list was a little longer.)
-Racks: I had a THULE system on my old Jetta, including 2 Big Mouth bike attachments. I had the dealer credit me for the factory racks and purchased new THULE towers and bars. Some wind noise, but I expected that with the bike attachments, as they'll live on there until November or so.
-Keyless Entry: Read post about someone's problems in downtown Boston. I park at work in a surface lot in downtown Toronto and I have to walk around to between passenger door and front wheel for it to work. Works great everywhere else so far, even at quite a distance, so I don't think it's a battery issue. I'll mention it when it's in for service, but I think I'll just adapt.
-I've kept the speed under 100 km for the first 1,000 and varied speed on the highway, but any other "break in" tips I should follow?
-Carpet mats seem nice, but I think I'll go aftermarket rubber before next winter.
-Prior to purchase, I read about 2 year's worth of posts on here. Thanks for educating me on things to look for, thanks for being enthusiastic about your Subarus, and thanks for giving me somewhere to come with my questions.
Wayne
Wayne: welcome, congratulations on the new car! We also looked at the CRV while shopping, but hated it. I thought the handling was abysmal, and the interior is kind of cheap looking to me.
Sharon: Forester is great in the snow, can't speak for ice but what car is good on ice? Sound system is decent if you get the upgrades. My wife's XS has the upgraded speakers and subwoofer, and she's quite happy with it (big moonroof and a kickin stereo were on her list of things to get in a new car). We have leather, which is fine, but I preferred the cloth personally. I think you can expect to pay $500 under invoice, possibly better. I have lost track of the incentives on the Forester, but $500 under seems to be the going rate these days.
I noticed from your profile that you're also shopping for a Highlander. We seriously considered that vehicle too. It drives very nicely if you get the V6. In the end, it was too much like a minivan for my wife. When we finally drove the Forester, she pretty much fell in love with it (which is why I saved it for last). It's considerably more fun to drive than the Highlander. Less refined, certainly (at least compared to a V6 Highlander), but way more interesting to drive.
Craig
Even so, we're not comparing apples-to-apples here. Once you modify a vehicle, comparisons with "stock" models no longer apply.
Bob
XT Fuel economy: I'm sure there will be a hit to fuel economy with the turbo, but you also have AVCS working for you as well. I'm sure gas milage is going to vary depending on how you drive it (ie. how much you keep it on boost).
dagpotter: The *only* reason not to buy an XS tomorrow is that the XT is on it's way shortly. The XS is a great model, but the XT is going to have substantially more power.
Wayne: Welcome and congrats. We hope you stay an active participant. As for the break-in procedure, you're doing fine. Keep in mind that it's more about varying the engine RPMs than vehicle speed. Since you're over that first 1000 miles, you can slowly start bringing the RPMs up past 4000. You might also want to consider having an oil change. There's some debate on how beneficial this is, but it can't hurt.
Ken
-mike
DaveM
Actually, the XT is a strong contender for the WRX. The XT will have much better low-end torque than the WRX, not to mention nicer creature comforts and more cargo room. I heard that Subaru of Canada's website mentioned the 0-60 time being only 0.1 seconds behind the WRX.
Ken
I value CR FWIW, you really have to read it a certain way, the target audience is not us (enthusiasts), it's your average family. They publich payload, tow ratings, measured clearance, and lots of stuff that you can't get from any other single source. It saves lots of time, i.e. it's a good summary.
I read C&D and Autoweek, but honestly it's my test drive that I weight most heavily.
Just 35 lbs for that huge intercooler? 5mm more clearance is strange. Maybe it's how the engine sits in the bay, or the front cross members under the engine are moved up.
18/25 is still not bad. I saw that the Sante Fe got a bigger, 3.5l V6, and it's rated for just 16/20, and I bet the Forester's a lot faster.
In a way, putting the Element and Baja with the Aztec makes sense, they're all extroverted and wild looking. Hence I called it the "freak show". :-)
Potter: I'm not gonna stop you. Love my '98 with 52k miles so far.
labgirl: you should be able to beat the TMV price. The turbo and the 2004s are right around the corner, prices are as low as they'll get IMO.
Honda added a peppy 2.4l engine to the CR-V, and the back seat is limo-like. I felt the front seat didn't have enough travel, though, and I prefer full-time AWD as opposed to the mostly FWD setup Honda uses. Try both.
-juice
Cheers
Pat
Originally i thought these were wiring for the subwoofer/amplifier. However, recently i looked at the diagrams for the subwoofer installation. It requires head unit removal including the front bezel before connection to the woofer. (which i thought was pre-wired and ready to go).
So, if those wires are not pre-wires for the sub, what exactly are they for?...seat heaters? (my model is an L, which does not have them)
XS: 3097
XS Premium: 3131
XT: 3208
I am not concerned about the magical >3208lbs number. Power-to-weight ratio is based on a single number - max power, i.e., when you shift into next gear. What counts is how much torque you have in the rpm range before that. I have no reason not to believe the 6.1 seconds listed on Subaru's site.
- D.
Could be for seat belt warning light which is mandatory in many countries but may not be in USA
Cheers
Graham
My question is: can anyone recommend pads and shoes for the Forester that won't be as suseptible to this squealing? I have two other new cars in the family that don't do this.
Gene
My guess is those wires are for heaters. Interesting that they tend to pre-wire for everything whether or not the model gets it. I bet it's cheaper for them that way, more streamlined assembly.
Gene: there's usually a trade-off between metallic content and noise. Semi-metallic pads stop better, but squeel more. The OE pads are sort of middle-of-the-road.
You can have the pads scuffed again. I bet you have an automatic? If possible, after a hard stop, let off the brakes to let the pads cool seperately from the rotors, to prevent glazing the pads.
Hawk pads performed extremely well in C&D tests in a WRX, but I bet they're actually more likely to squeel.
-juice
When we bought my wife's Forester, we pretty much broke even on her trade -- a 2000 Mazda 626 with ~25,000 miles. We got the 626 at a deep discount (through the Ford A-plan for employees, since her mom works for Hertz) and I was expecting that to help us when we sold/traded the vehicle. No such luck. We were lucky to come out even. The Subaru dealer gave us a fairly good offer on the 626 too, slightly more than I expected. It's just that the car's value really plummeted.
Craig
My first question is: how reliable and dependable have you found your Forester? Specifically speaking, how is the 1998 Forester? Will there be constant little problems? Will there be major overhaul, should I decide to buy this car?
Secondly: this Forester I located... seems a bit too cheap for comfort. It's 98 L model, with around 101,000 miles on it... so that's around 20,000 per year... which seems a bit more than "typical." But this was listed at $5500! (Marked down for this month from about $6700. Should I be skeptical??? I checked Carfax info, using the VIN#, and it looked clean... and initially registered for personal use.
I can't keep going back to the used car dealer, because it's a bit far from me. I will make one trip to see the car, determine whether it would be acceptable, and buy/not buy the car. Any tips you can give me???
Thanks!!!
I'm both excited and worried. It's been a while since I bought a used car.
I'm an Outback owner from Downunder but from regular involvement in these pages over four years it seems that the major issue with Foresters was over rear wheel bearings. If there was a problem with the one you are looking at, it would likely have shown by now.
Subarus are fairly long lived and robust beasts. They must be serviced regularly by competent technicians (tell me of any recent vehicle that this does not apply to) but are otherwise very good. Do check for service reciept asn ensure that scheduled maintneance has been undertaken regularly.
All Subarus are known for high mileages so do not be put off.
Cheers
Graham
http://www.nhtsa.gov/NCAP/Cars/2533.html
- Lou
Jim
All the tested vehicles were stocked with weird accessory groupings, and in order to get the leather on the Forester I had to get a moonroof (what a waste) and a 6 player CD, both expensive items, and both of which we will never use. At first I was very disappointed with the purchase because the Forester rode like a truck (compared to the Lincoln), had only marginally better gas mileage (20 vs. 16), and it was noisier. But as the months rolled by I got use to these changes and now find I like the Forester, especially its ease of parking and maneuverability in our heavy traffic. It is also much easier to load a wheelchair into than was the Lincoln.
I drive only 600 miles a month so the 20MPG is not a wallet buster, although from an environmental standpoint, the mileage stinks. Incidentally, my MPG is just under 20 for 3600 miles. Fortunately I found this web site and I have leaned some nice things that make the Forester more fun and convenient to use, and I appreciate the information. Just last week I learned how to find out when the extra cost security system was working, something I was not sure about before. The vehicle rode better after someone here said to check the tires and not trust the PSI that the dealer put into the tires. They were over inflated so I reduced the PSI to the manufacturer’s specs and got a better ride.
The vehicle is fast enough for us when we enter the nearby expressway and have to get up to 70 fairly rapidly. I was pleased with the CR report on the Forester and agree with them about the goofy gated shifter. For a few bucks more Subaru could have made the car much better by adding a few interior lights, instead of just the one, for nighttime entry. They should have included a height adjustor for the passenger’s seat, and they should have done something to stop the clacking as the remote door entry device bumps against the steering column when the vehicle is in motion. I have solved the latter by putting a large soft bandage on the column.
The Forester has been trouble free, except for the recall on the shifter, the Subaru bucks is a great deal, and the dealer offers such free extras as a loaner, or valet pickup service (I am 25 miles away) when the car needs to be in for servicing. All of this makes ownerhip even more pleasing.
Again, thanks to all for the helpful information passed along on this board.