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Luxury Lounge

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Comments

  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    (why the heck did Audi ruin the A6's nice rear end and replace it with bloated A4's ).

    The original rear end of the C6 A6 was basically an evolution of the C5 model. The update brings it into line with Audi's current styling cues. I didn't quite get it at first, but after seeing a brand new A6 on the road, I think it looks great. It's one of those things that just doesn't work in pictures.

    What I'm very interested to see is how the interior turns out in the C7 car. The C6 was the debut of Audi's current interior design theme. The A8 got MMI first, but otherwise it was in the old Audi interior school. The new A6 and A8 will determine whether Audi is still king of interiors.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    I'm on a different side on that part. I tried looking at it carefully, and to me it makes the car loses it's originality in it's design (like I said earlier, bloated A4). And somehow, at least to my eyes, the lines between and front and rear end don't really match.

    @Tag: no kidding, 26 dealer visits. I'm not sure how or why. Perhaps it's related on which line a car is assembled at, like you said... though it brings out another problem: most manufacturing lines are automatic, so assuming the assembly line theory is true, just how many other lemons are out there? :surprise:
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Inhuman... that reminds me of an old friend who bought an 04 Maxima the first time it came into the market. 26 unscheduled dealer visits in 1 year encouraged him (deeply) to file for lemon law.

    That was the wrong time to buy a Nissan. They were just starting to come back after the Altima saved them from total disaster, and quality was absolutely gutted on all levels to save every last penny. The Maximas also came from the new TN plant, which took a very long time to get its act together. The absolute worst offenders were the early Quests and Armadas, quality was so bad there it would make Land Rover blush.

    Nissan still isn't so hot quality wise, and neither is Mazda.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Any of you gentlemen truly know what causes an individual car to become a lemon?

    A combination of bad plants and bad design certainly enables the possibility of lemons. As I just mentioned in my last post, the quality of cars built at Nissan's Tennessee plant in the mid '00s was horrendous. When you cut corners at the design stage and the work is slipshod at the build stage, you're going to end up with lemons. Mercedes had similar problems with their Alabama plant, leading to a lot of lemon ML320s.

    In other instances, it's new technology that hasn't been tested well enough, which was the cause of most of Mercedes' headaches over the last decade.

    A single root cause could result in a lot of faults, as parts fail as a result of an initial failure. If a suspension system for example has some kind of problem in the design, it could lead to all kinds of issues. Or it may not be mechanical at all. Computers and software control tons of different sub-systems in luxury cars, and something as simple as bad software could lead to a lemon.
  • skarieskarie Member Posts: 78
    2010 Aston Martin Rapide

    My ride in the Rapide, code named VH400 for Vertical-Horizontal 400-series, was supposed to be about the audio system, but I couldn't help notice the rest of the car. Yeah, the rear seat armrest was missing and the center console was taped up, but I did gather some interesting facts on what it's like to be in the car at speed. Most obvious? The Rapide feels and looks like a DB9. There is nothing that indicates the presence of expanded rear space. The rear seats are low, with enough leg room to be comfortable, but not to the extent of, say, a Lincoln Town Car. It's more like the passenger seat of a Honda S2000; I liken it to being coddled in performance. Clearly these are the rear seats of a sports sedan — not a luxury sedan.
    link title
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Ah of course, I totally forgot about the TN plant. It was also the one who got hail stormed that year wasn't it?
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    Wow! I will get out of the passing lane if I see your mom in that S6! She sounds a lot like my mom, who 94, drives her 2004 SL500 like she stole it! No Buick Roadmasters, Mercury GM's, or Lincoln TC's in her garage! Just that and my late father's 2006 Dodge Ram 3500 dually that she refuses to sell as that it is what she uses to pull our Coachmen when going to the mountains(of course she makes me drive!). She refuses to stop... Ah, and the old man bought a brand new '06 Z06 before he passed on 93! ...

    Stories like this give me reassurance that I don't have to give up performance cars or performance driving just because I'm aging! :) Here I'm only 38, yet I wonder if I'm getting too old to be dreaming of buying another Mustang GT and modding it up to near race levels. :confuse: (Performance racing, not drag racing.) I know, it's not a high end car! But let's face it. Not all of us want (or can afford) to buy 911s, M3s (and 911. Plus, that's where a good 60% of the fun comes from; modding it! ;)

    Anyways, I'm rambling. Back on point, it's nice to hear that old folks are still doin' it up behind the wheel!
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ... US auto blogs don't have Top Gear's kind of power to just assemble a bunch of supercars on a track whenever they feel like it.

    What do you mean? I'm pretty sure they can. In fact, as I recall, some years back when C&D or Motor Trend tested the Ford GT, that was an owner's car. When the Enzo was tested, that was an owner's car. When the Carrera GT was tested, that was an owner's car. When the Continental GT was tested, that was an owner's car; an Iranian sheik, IIRC. Along with many more tests. They may not be able to always get them from the manufacturers, but they don't have problems getting the cars. As you can see, there are tons of supercar owners who have to problem lending their rides out to the mags for testing. Some enjoy it as they get a chance to see the performance abilities of their new toy; not to mention the bragging rights at the lodge to be able to tell the rest of the puff-&-fluff club, "Hey, that's my car in that review."
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    TM, in which experiments are you involved? :P

    This is an e-mail received today from Nature Science Journal Group:

    Nature Publishing Group
    Asunto: At Last, a Convenient Alternative to TaqMan

    Oh, I know it was TaqMan. :blush:
    But before realizing it, I was sincerely astonished!

    Regards,
    Jose
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    TaqMan probes are hydrolysis probes developed by Applied Biosystems to increase the specificity of real-time PCR assays. The TaqMan probe principle relies on the 5´–3´ nuclease activity of Taq polymerase to cleave a dual-labelled probe during hybridization to the complementary target sequence and fluorophore-based detection.[1] As in other real-time PCR methods, the resulting fluorescence signal permits quantitative measurements of the accumulation of the product during the exponential stages of the PCR; however, the TaqMan probe significantly increases the specificity of the detection.

    You know Jose I think this Taqman Probe thing is very dangerous and can cause immediate extintion within this forum.

    Taqman probes are not as engaging as "Hey I got a hot hot stock for you to buy today". Or I think the "Dow Jones will be 11683 by Feb 27th leap year or no leap year".
    Who knows maybe just maybe luxury cars or performance cars may draw more attention than the Taqman Probe? Or maybe not? ;)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    You know Jose I think this Taqman Probe thing is very dangerous and can cause immediate extintion within this forum.

    I agree. I, for one, have nothing more to say here... especially about stocks. ;)

    Maybe I should change my name to ProbeMan... although that name is probably in use on an adult website.

    Goodbye and good luck. Immediate extinction engaged.

    TM
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    well they might be better but they still have a long way to go; I' have a 2010 Maxima SV from the Tenn plant and I have three separate vibrations/rattles in the car since day one! having a Nissan regional specialist by so I can have her hear the noises

    It's been my experience over the years, at least with the Japanese manufactures, that the Acura's, Infiniti's, and Lexus's products I've had over the years that have been completely built and assembled in the Japanese plants and shipped over on the boat have had absolutely no problems in regards to quality control, build quality, rattles, etc: whereas, the Acura's, Nissans, and Toyota's I have had over the years built and assembled in American Plants have had quality, rattles, and other problems

    Here is a perfect example of what I'm talking about: take Acura for instance: I had a TSX one time, completely made in Japan and had not one rattle or problem with the car: my second TL, built and assembled in Ohio, has been filled with quality issues and rattles that can't be fixed: when I got my TL, there was a green stain on the front driver carpet floor, the ambient cabin lighting did not work, the auto-up feature on the driver door did not work, when hitting the trunk release the trunk did not pop open, and the rear tail-lights developed terrible condensation when it rained, was foggy, etc: suffice it to say I had a completely different quality control experience with my TL then I did with the TSX and the only difference between the two cars was where they were built and assembled; luckily all those issues I just mentioned with my 08 TL were replaced and fixed by my Acura dealer but a brand new car should not have been delivered to me in that condition

    now I know not everyone will have the same experience but that is what I have seen and dealt with over the years: I'm not saying that every vehicle completely made in Japan is perfect because I am sure there are some cars from Japan that were missed for quality checks but not as often as I've seen with the American plants; the majority of the people I talked to have seen and felt the same trend in quality control between the American and Japanese Plants that I have!
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Can't argue with that. My TSX served me for over 3 years with absolutely zero problems, needing no more than scheduled fluid change and normal wear items replacements. While my previous Civic had almost as much problems as my Escape, which was ridiculous. On a side note, TSX is considered as one of the most reliable cars ever in existence, so comparing it might be a bit hard to do. :)
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    A college junior connected to me through the alumni network asked me this question yesterday:

    "When a specific make/model comes with a twin or clones like GM's Lambda quadruplets or the Ford-Mercury lineup, how do you decide which one to choose from, particularly in used form?
    I'm currently trying to make up my mind between a Subaru WRX wagon and Saab's 9-2x, and this whole twin, triplet, quadruplet thing is killing me."


    That's it. What do you guys think?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    the majority of the people I talked to have seen and felt the same trend in quality control between the American and Japanese Plants that I have!

    In many cases that's true, though there are plenty of examples where it is not. The Mazda3 for example is built in Mazda's Hiroshima plant, and has been very reliable. The Mazda6 comes from Flat Rock MI, and doesn't have a great record. The CX-7 and CX-9 though are both built in Japan, and both have terrible quality records.

    The Japanese built 2005 Acura RL had loads of electrical problems, and the earliest cars were sent to dealers without the AWD system diff fluid in place, which lead to the system completely locking up.

    The worst new car introduction in Lexus' history in terms of quality was the Japanese built '06 GS300 AWD. The '07 ES350 also shared the transmission problems of the '07 Camry V6, despite being built in Japan. The previous gen Infiniti G35s that burned through their brake rotors after 10K miles were also Japanese built.

    The average Japanese assembled car will probably have fewer rattles, tighter gaps, etc. than the average NA assembled car from a Japanese brand, but there's certainly no guarantee of getting a flawless car just because it came from Japan.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    "When a specific make/model comes with a twin or clones like GM's Lambda quadruplets or the Ford-Mercury lineup, how do you decide which one to choose from, particularly in used form?

    If the only difference is the styling, then pick the one that looks better. The Fusion/Milan twins for example are almost identical except for their grilles, lights, and a couple of trim pieces. I hate the Fusion's enormous razor blade grille, so I'd go with a Milan.

    The so called "Saabaru" was not identical to a WRX. If I remember correctly, it had things like leather seats, automatic climate control, and an automatic transmission. The vast majority of WRXes out there are going to have cloth seats and sticks.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    absolutely agree with you: its just amazing how with the same auto manufacture, you can have a completely different experience with one model compared to another, such as my case with the TSX and TL:

    even as you said, Lexus is not immune to this: I have two family members who both have ES350s: both were made in the Japanese plant but one is having all kinds of quality and technical problems, much like I did with my TL, while the other family member has absolutely no problems with their ES350 whats so ever

    I've been reading on the RX350 blogs that the new 2010 RX has had some quality issues: I know some are made in Japan and others in Canada but regardless of where they were built, people have commented on problems with the front fender loosing up and either forming a gap with the headlights or has fallen off completely: also some issues with interior panels and technology, namely the nav system, sat radio, and climate control functions not working properly

    so I think it is a hit or a miss, but as I've mentioned I think your chances are better in regards to quality control, build/assembly quality from the vehicles that are made in the Japanese plants then they are in Canadian or American plants
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    even as you said, Lexus is not immune to this: I have two family members who both have ES350s: both were made in the Japanese plant but one is having all kinds of quality and technical problems, much like I did with my TL, while the other family member has absolutely no problems with their ES350 whats so ever

    This is partly why I've gone back to German cars. When I bought my first Lexus back in '96, the Japanese, especially Lexus, were miles ahead of Germany in both reliability and technology. Today, Japan's technological advantage is gone, and in many areas they are behind the Germans. Some Lexus models still come with cassette decks!

    There's still a reliability gap, but its far smaller than it used to be. In the '90s, a new Lexus was pretty much guaranteed to be flawless, which made up for the lack of styling and character. That just isn't the case anymore, and thus I've totally lost interest in Lexus. Acuras are now the ugliest cars on the road, and their interiors are still full of the same cheap plastic and fake wood and aluminum trim that have kept them out of the real luxury arena.

    IMO, Infiniti is the only one with interesting products. They've had their own problems with low grade interiors throughout most of their existence, but the EX35 started to change that, and the 2011 M finally has to make absolutely no excuses for its design or interior quality. The Germans are launching their latest assault on the mid-lux class over the next two years, and most likely only the M will be able to challenge them.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Well, I hope the G does well in the next upgrade. They did well to compete with the Germans so far.

    Regards,
    OW
  • rockshocka1rockshocka1 Member Posts: 310
    Some Lexus models still come with cassette decks!

    I'm actually looking forward to the ditching of cd players as well. I know no one who has bought a cd in years.

    I would loved to have my car nix the entire 6 in dash cd player & put the MMI controls in it's place, away from the cup holders. I like the ipod connection in the glove box out of the way, just wish the 'drawer' for it wasn't so cheaply made.

    LG, I know it just came out, but any opinion on the Droid that dropped today? I read many reviews of it's flaws, but the common conclusion was it's the best phone Verizon has available. & to keep it on topic, is a new phone like this compatible with Audi bluetooth, or would that take a software upgrade?
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    There's still a reliability gap, but its far smaller than it used to be. In the '90s, a new Lexus was pretty much guaranteed to be flawless, which made up for the lack of styling and character. That just isn't the case anymore, and thus I've totally lost interest in Lexus.

    And I'd say that it depends on what German car we're talking about. A minimally equipped BMW - no factory nav, for example, because the Germans still aren't good at marrying sophisticated electronics & high performance mechanicals - is acceptably reliable, but I still wouldn't buy an Audi with your money. Someone, perhaps you, defended Audi by saying that they turned a corner in 2005, but for me that's not a terribly convincing claim. Since I don't lease & won't buy a car that I can't keep for at least 8 years, I'd have to wait until 2013 at the earliest to see if the good news about Audi really is true.

    I know loads of people who drive Japanese cars that are 8+ years old, & I myself drive an 8-year-old BMW, but I don't know a soul who drives an Audi that's nearly that old. In fact, I don't know anyone who owns - as opposed to leases - an Audi, so it's hard not to suspect that Audi builds cars to be leased & disposed of, not to be purchased & kept.

    Why should this surprise anyone? We know that not all Japanese cars are equal - that Suzukis aren't built to Honda or Toyota standards - so why should we expect that an Audi will be as reliable over the long haul as a BMW?

    At the end of the day, I have to go along with a conclusion that Forbes drew a few years ago in an article about the global auto industry: the Germans may build the world's best cars but the Japanese build the world's best car factories.
  • clemboclembo Member Posts: 253
    Since I don't lease & won't buy a car that I can't keep for at least 8 years, I'd have to wait until 2013 at the earliest to see if the good news about Audi really is true.

    You make some fair points but some people might feel that enjoying the overall experience of the car over an 8+ year (or any) timeframe may be as important if not more so than just hoping that you've chosen the most reliable brand.

    I traded in an 8 year old BMW earlier this year as even though it only had 40,000 miles it was really becoming a problem over the past few years (I traded it for another car that may not be the most reliable, but it is a great car to enjoy). I also have a 2008 BMW which has low miles and as much as the car is fun to drive, I have already found too many compromises that were made with this car.

    As much I love German cars, I would not buy any of them if reliability over an 8+ year ownership experience was the main concern. Honda/Toyota would probably still fit that need a bit better.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    As much I love German cars, I would not buy any of them if reliability over an 8+ year ownership experience was the main concern. Honda/Toyota would probably still fit that need a bit better.

    That's why I'm keenly interested in the upcoming 2011 Infiniti M. If it can deliver 90+% of the driving pleasure of a comparable German car together with the level of reliability that we associate with a top-tier Japanese brand, it might just be my next car.

    I'd go for a G37 if I had to replace my BMW tomorrow.

    While I *like* cars, I no longer love them, & my obsessive car nut days are way behind me. So, yes, reliability is key.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    While I loved my 330xi, I would go for a G37 in a heart beat. :D My BMW days are over (at the moment).

    But I am looking at Hyundai as a up and coming player that screams value at the same time. Haven't tested any yet but the products and marketing from that company shows in the recent sales results better than any other. No formal luxo brand yet but it seems they are working on it.

    Regards,
    OW
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    ...shows in the recent sales results...

    Sales results? Are you talking about the Genesis? It certainly hasn't caught on in the NYC metro area. I've seen more Lamborginis than Genesises - whatever the plural is - during the past year. I don't think that the Genesis would rate a footnote on the sales charts in the Northeast.

    I dunno - maybe it sells well in the South.

    I'm not saying that it's a bad car. Not at all. It's a handsome, well-made car that delivers much bang for the buck. But I do think that Hyundai rushed it to market without sorting out everything. The suspension, for example, seems to be a work in progress.

    I'd certainly give it serious consideration in, say, 2 or 3 years. But not today.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I'm actually looking forward to the ditching of cd players as well. I know no one who has bought a cd in years.

    I know what you mean. This is another area where Lexus is behind the times. Their new models that use the mouse control system have hdd based navigation, but you can't use the hard drive to store any music on. Why? They give you a slot for a USB thumb drive so you don't have to use the CD player, but that still pales in comparison to Audi who gives you two SD slots, AMI, and hard drive space.

    LG, I know it just came out, but any opinion on the Droid that dropped today? I read many reviews of it's flaws, but the common conclusion was it's the best phone Verizon has available. & to keep it on topic, is a new phone like this compatible with Audi bluetooth, or would that take a software upgrade?

    I've been looking at the Droid for a little while, it's a cool phone. The biggest flaw seems to be the keyboard - it's cramped and flat. For the life of me, I can't understand why they put blank "dummy" keys on the bottom corners. Hello, symbol keys? Something? Anybody home?

    I'm more interested in some of the upcoming GSM Android phones since Nokia's N900 is disappointing and T-mobile only, but for Verizon subscribers, it's definitely the best of an otherwise meager smart phone lineup. The HTC TP2 is passable, but that's about all they've got. The Storm2 doesn't do it for me.

    As for in car bluetooth, don't know.
  • clemboclembo Member Posts: 253
    A guy that I work with picked up a 2009 G37xs sedan last weekend. I drove it for a few miles and it is impressive. It was loaded with features, it looks good, and it has great performance. It would be hard to justify the extra cost of a 335xi unless one would really want a BMW. The G37 coupe is probably a great bargin in the market today, a great car at a fair price. I do agree that Infiniti is well positioned in the marketplace and if the new M is good, they will do very well in the future.

    I also don't have quite the passion for cars as I did when I was a bit younger, but I still get a thrill from them and it is a safe (albeit) expensive hobby.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Someone, perhaps you, defended Audi by saying that they turned a corner in 2005, but for me that's not a terribly convincing claim. Since I don't lease & won't buy a car that I can't keep for at least 8 years, I'd have to wait until 2013 at the earliest to see if the good news about Audi really is true.

    According to JD power VDS reports, 2005 Audis were around the industry average after 3 years, worse than BMW, but slightly better than Mercedes. For 2006 Mercedes was up slightly, BMW made no improvement, and Audi made huge strides, ranking ahead of BMW and just below Honda. Audi said in an Automotive News article a couple of weeks ago that they made a system wide effort to improve quality a few years back, and it is paying off.

    If I'm going to buy a car tomorrow, I would have more confidence in a 2010 A6 than I would in a 2010 5 series, especially the xi version which has a very poor record. I would also have more confidence in the A6 than a 2010 Lexus GS AWD, which according to CR, continues to be a rattle trap plagued with issues. You say BMW is better, I say the Audi of today, not 8 years ago, is better than BMW.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    only time will tell when it comes to both what happens to German reliability and the styling of the Japanese automakers: I do agree 100% with you about Acura in regards to the exterior styling and the ugliness that their lineup now has: despite having an 08 TL with some problems, all of which have been addressed, I am so thankful I got the last generation body style while it still looked great: when the 09 TL came out I was disgusted by the front end and thought well maybe it would be better in person because sometimes pictures do not do justice: well I was wrong, it is just as ugly in person as it is in the pictures: that is why many Acura dealerships and outside body shops are offering to spray paint the majority of the nose the body color of the car to try and hide the grill: I've seen one in person and it does help:

    I do not agree with you about Acura when it comes to interior quality: both my TL and the new TSX has really nice high quality interior materials and the ergonomics and build quality/fit and finish of the TSX is just top notch: I have never read any professional review on edmunds, motor trend, car and driver, consumer reports, etc that stated Acura, or for that matter Lexus, having lousy interior's with bad interior materials/quality and fit/finish: if anything, Infiniti I would say is still slightly behind Acura and Lexus in regards to interior quality/fit and finish, and ergonomics and has a minor few cheap interior plastics and hard surfaces that they need to get rid of but with the EX35 and the 2011 M it looks like Infiniti will have solved these minor problems and hopefully they will do that with the next generation G since that is Infiniti's bread and butter:

    In regards to German reliability, it has improved but they still have ways to go for catching up to the Japanese in reliability according to 2009s consumer reports and US News and World Report: here is a quick quote out of Consumer Reports For This years car manufactures:

    "Europe Rebounding: While the resurgence of Mercedes-Benz reliability remains the big news out of Europe, though a third of their models we surveyed still have moderate reliability problems. Two-thirds of Audi's lineup scored avg or better in reliability. It's sister brand, VW, has several models rating average or better in our survey, but the Passat sedan, Tourag SUV, and EOS convertible have not done well: BMW has shown the best progress of the big three German makers in recent years, with most versions of the 3-series and some 5-series being avg or better. The 6 series improved to above average"

    the German automakers make some very nice vehicles, but I do not buy or lease them because you pay thousands of dollars more for the same technology or option extras in the German vehicles that you can get either standard or in much less expensive option packages in the Japanese vehicles: plus with the Japanese vehicles your getting a better CHANCE of having a much more reliable and trouble-free car for thousands of dollars less then their German counterparts!

    Just My Two Cents, But I would Say that the Majority of Professional Reviewers stretching from Consumer reports to MotorTrend would agree with me!!
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419

    That's why I'm keenly interested in the upcoming 2011 Infiniti M. If it can deliver 90+% of the driving pleasure of a comparable German car together with the level of reliability that we associate with a top-tier Japanese brand, it might just be my next car.


    That's what I'm expecting from it. I also want to see if the NAV and electronics are anything new. Infinitis current system is decent enough, but not great when compared to the latest MMI system, or even COMAND.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    But I do think that Hyundai rushed it to market without sorting out everything. The suspension, for example, seems to be a work in progress.

    That's what I've heard. I took a look at one awhile back, wasn't impressed. It's a nice enough looking car, it doesn't offend like the TL, but there's nothing really attractive about it either. The interior just seemed like the Azera's, nothing special. It could make a compelling used car for some, provided they actually hold up longer than 3 years (not a Hyundai strong suit), but it doesn't tempt me away from Audi.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Well, here are the comparisons from 2008 for you to review..While I agree with you it needs to improve, the Gen is doing quite well in the current market..

    image

    ...and ytd 9/09.

    CARLINE SEPTEMBER/2009 SEPTEMBER/2008 CY/2009 CY/2008

    ACCENT 4,864 3,014 55,525 44,393
    SONATA 7,898 8,629 93,575 97,442
    ELANTRA 7,513 3,681 82,706 86,144
    TIBURON 37 677 8,579 7,730
    SANTA FE 7,010 4,676 58,067 56,629
    AZERA 339 483 2,932 13,437
    TUCSON 1,583 1,294 12,772 16,247
    ENTOURAGE 28 455 3,423 4,360
    VERACRUZ 574 827 8,704 8,427
    GENESIS 1,665 1,029 15,934 2,855
    TOTAL 31,511 24,765 342,217 337,664

    Should sell at least 19K units in 2009.

    Regards,
    OW
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    You say BMW is better, I say the Audi of today, not 8 years ago, is better than BMW.

    Well, I'll try to keep an open mind. I almost certainly won't buy anything before the spring of 2011. By that time, the next generation M (assuming, of course, that I like it) will have been out for a year. (As a rule, I stay away from the 1st year of a new design.)

    Perhaps by then I'll have changed my mind about Audi.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Gen is doing quite well in the current market

    Again, I have to believe that most of those sales are concentrated in the South & Southwest. The Genesis is virtually invisible in the North.

    If a monster tsunami obliterated Boston next week, it would probably destroy 10,000 Mercedes Benzes, 12,000 BMWs, 25,000 Volvos (most of which would be sporting Obama '08 bumper stickers) & 11 Genesises.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Probably due to no AWD from what I can gather. Still, they are selling them somewhere.

    BTW, I took a quick ride over to our local H dealer and noticed the new 2010 Veracruz as it struck me as a CC of the RX. $10K less has to mean something to someone out there! The Gen coupe is quite striking in my view.

    image

    Agree there is a long road ahead for Hyundai to compete with the true lux brands, however. They are a poor man's Lexus today! :surprise:

    Regards,
    OW
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    That`s a pretty sky in the background Tony
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    LG, I know it just came out, but any opinion on the Droid that dropped today? I read many reviews of it's flaws, but the common conclusion was it's the best phone Verizon has available.

    I happened to be at the mall yesterday and got a chance to take a quick look at the Droid. I have to say I was less than blown away. It's smaller in person than it looks in pictures. I figured that the keyboard would be like the old HTC Touch Pro, but its even smaller than that and pretty much unusable. Too bad. At this point Sprint's Samsung Moment looks like the better phone.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    (As a rule, I stay away from the 1st year of a new design.)

    That's a good rule to follow. These days it seems like everybody is struggling to get rid of bugs in the first year. I've started to hear of some QC issues on the 2010 E class already.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    If a monster tsunami obliterated Boston next week, it would probably destroy 10,000 Mercedes Benzes, 12,000 BMWs, 25,000 Volvos (most of which would be sporting Obama '08 bumper stickers) & 11 Genesises [sic].

    Nicely put.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Ah you mean the electronic glitches? The problem's starting up here already...

    Agree with Jimbres: stay off 1st model year.

    Lexus isn't only getting really bland, IMO, quality glitches are more and more apparent by the day. The only real good looking one IMO is the GS, and it doesn't really have a good reputation to talk about. I wonder what Toyota is thinking... maybe it caught MB's disease back in the 90s? Arrogance syndrome that is... :shades:

    Acura, it made a huge mistake trying to get independent from Honda. And as the result we get the Darth Vader of luxury auto design. Give the TL an all-black color treatment and you get the idea :P (not to mention it's gotten way too expensive for a TL with no actual improvement over the old one, save for the SH-AWD).

    If only Infiniti is willing to fix the lack of refinement in it's products, it'd be a serious contender in class. Start with better cabin and more sound insulation. That said, G coupe is attractive, although somewhat, uh, less muscular compared to the old one, seems like it's taking the sleek look route now...
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Despite it's relatively decent sales, it's population is scarce in the Northwest. So I'm curious, where did all those sales go to? SE? SW?....

    Personally while I've warmed up to Genesis' appeal, I still can't say Hyundai is ready to be in the luxury world. No it's not the brand, but the below standard customer service (luxury class standard that is) plus the product's not-exactly-luxurious trimmings still leave me unimpressed. Alas, this comment sparked a lot of controversy over at Hyundai thread. :P
    A Gen coupe, now that's a different story. It's the first Hyundai to make me look twice at it. One exception though, please dump the wing. :sick:
  • bornoborno Member Posts: 77
    My 2000, A6 2.7T, 6sp(mt) has been fantastic, it has 125K and still runs like a top, no major problems since I bought it used, and I drive it the way it was meant to b driven. It's my 2nd audi,(first was a 98 A4, also great!). Honestly, audi has gotten an unfair rap ever since the 'unexplained excelleration' issue of the 80's. Audi certainly has stepped up the technology and design improvement into their vehicle more than any one else.

    As far as the German, Japanesse argument goes, you pay a little more, and risk a little more with the german cars, but they deliver superior vehicles for comfort and performance. I recently tested bmw 5, audi a6, infiniti's m45x, and the acura tl.
    I was looking to replace my 'old' a6 , preferable with a manuel tranny. While all vehicle were great drives, at the end of the day, none were convinvcing enough to warrant a replacing my baby. My audi needs new cats, but I will get a one year extension on my emission rejection and live to shop another day.

    I do think car manufactures are finally competeing again, and that given the economic situation, deals will still be had for the future.

    I came amazingly close to buying my dream car, at a steep discount as well: a Porsche Cayenne GTS with a manuel tranny, and Porsche's Dynamic Chassy Control. I decided to wait a year or two and maybe look for a Turbo S. I've seen 2006 TurboS's for half of thier original sticker, now that's a deal!

    This is a great forum, with truley insightful input, but layoff the phone topics, and forget about the hyundais.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    LL talks about cars mainly of course, but every once in a while we always stray to talk about other things, phones, audio, even soccer. It lasts only a few days or so, but this is what makes LL so fun, so I'm afraid you're just gonna have to live with it. :P
    As for Hyundai, well, it's slowly creeping up to the luxury market, so like it or not it will occasionally be talked about.

    Anyways, back on topic:
    Audi's doing well, I agree, but I'm not impressed with it's current pricing and product options packaging policies. It's taking MB's old route, pack options that bloats the price plus keep raising the base price of the cars (while constantly stripping off the formerly standard features). These 2 problems make me think twice about getting an S5, because in the end I get the feeling that I can get a nicely loaded M3 for roughly the same dough.

    On another note, German cars are getting more and more reliable. I never consider German cars to be far less reliable than Japanese models since around 2000MY, customers need do only one thing: take a good care of the cars!!!! Do that, and the German cars will prove just as reliable as the Japanese cars.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    My 2000, A6 2.7T, 6sp(mt) has been fantastic, it has 125K and still runs like a top, no major problems since I bought it used, and I drive it the way it was meant to b driven. It's my 2nd audi,(first was a 98 A4, also great!). Honestly, audi has gotten an unfair rap ever since the 'unexplained excelleration' issue of the 80's. Audi certainly has stepped up the technology and design improvement into their vehicle more than any one else.

    You find similar stories on the Audiworld forums of people that have kept their cars for a very long time. Contrary to some opinion around here, some people do buy Audis, and keep them longer than 3 years. That said, and speaking as an Audi fan, the B5 and C5 A4 and A6 from the late '90s were not known as paragons of reliability. Some, if not all, of Audis low quality reputation from that era was deserved.

    I believe that Audi has truly turned a corner in the second half of this decade. Unfortunately, they will continue to be dogged by bad experiences from those cars, as well as the usual misinformation by some that Audis are just gussied up VWs. It takes a very long time to change perceptions in the auto industry.

    I recently tested bmw 5, audi a6, infiniti's m45x, and the acura tl.
    I was looking to replace my 'old' a6 , preferable with a manuel tranny. While all vehicle were great drives, at the end of the day, none were convinvcing enough to warrant a replacing my baby.


    Coming from an A6 2.7T with the MT, you really should check out the new S4. The '07 S6 is also starting to become affordable. It's not a car you can really toss into corners like the S4, but the V10 is intoxicating.
  • bornoborno Member Posts: 77
    Well, I've been looking for my next vehicle for over 6 months. The S4 is great, but too small, I'm 6'1 and have teenage kids,(size ruled out the TL as well). The S6 was considered, drove it, liked it, few and far between, only AWD super sedan, got some tough reviews due to weight, under performance from a V10, still an option though. 07/08 still holding in the mid/high 50's, stubborn about the new led drl and tail lights, as well as the new hard drive based nav in the 2010.

    I found the right/rare car, Cayenne GTS with stick, chassy control, pano roof etc(can even tow respectably with it). Car stickers for 92.5, left over 09, available for $77K, good price, hard too pull the trigger. Actually had a dream, dealer called and offered it to me for $49,9, I'm a little crazy huh). Wife drives 04 Sienna AWD-loaded with 100k miles on it, other toy is '01 M3 convertible,stick. Super car!

    I'm holding off for the short term, like driving a car with virtually no depreciation exp.
    One never knows, also toying with the idea of European delivery of the new 5 series next year.

    Watching for super deals on a cayenne, saw 08 left over turbo $109K sticker, asking $84K, that's my kind of deal.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    got some tough reviews due to weight, under performance from a V10.

    The S6 is indeed a heavy car, but in my experience the V10 is definitely not an under-performer. It doesn't have ridiculous power like the RS6, but the engine feels well matched to the capabilities of the car, and there's always plenty of power when you need it. The last AMG E class I drove had more grunt, but the car felt clumsy and couldn't really handle all that engine.

    The front end of the 2010 S6 hasn't changed as far as I can tell, only the tail lights have been updated. The new MMI is nice, but I'm happy with the previous setup for as much as I need NAV. AMI is a good enough substitute for the hard drive for music storage.

    I don't understand the appeal of super trucks like the Cayenne or X5 M. They are too small to be really useful like a GL, and they are far too tall and heavy to be really enjoyable to drive. Rather than spend $90K on a Cayenne, I'd much rather have something like a Boxster or TT-S and a 4Runner or something like that.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Interesting. I personally think the Cayenne feels far heavier than the S6, and it's nowhere near as comfortable as well. But I heard many dealers have leftover 09s (sometimes even 08s) which they discount deeply to lure buyers, so good deals are out there.
    The V10 can be considered an underachiever when compared directly against M5 and E63, but it's nowhere near the word slow, or heavy IMO. And this is a matter of personal taste, but I don't like the revised rear end on the current A6/S6, front end feels mismatched with the rear end.
  • bornoborno Member Posts: 77
    Wow, you aren't kidding. Cayenne tipping it at 6,800, S6 only 4,800. I agree with both you, A6 more comfortable, sport truck a bit of a contradiction. Think I'll wait til the sienna goes,(could be a couple of years) and let the wife get a X5 for her next rig. Question: what is AMI you're referring to??

    What don't you like abouth the rear leds? What's mismatched about led drls and led tail lights. I've looked for A6,(4.2), which would be a reasonable option, but you guys are right, the S6 would be a keeper. They are growing in numbers as they come off leases.
  • bornoborno Member Posts: 77
  • rockshocka1rockshocka1 Member Posts: 310
    Question: what is AMI you're referring to??

    Audi Music Interface

    link
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