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Luxury Lounge

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  • topspin628topspin628 Posts: 373
    If anyone has info regarding what incentives one can get by joining, I would be very interested to hear. Thanks.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,599
    If anyone has info regarding what incentives one can get by joining, I would be very interested to hear. Thanks.

    If one joins BMWCCA at least one year in advance of buying or leasing a BMW, you are eligible for a discount ($500?). This was pointed out to me by our friend hpowders.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Was disappointed that Lexus didn't offer the SC430, LS460 and GS450h for us to drive.

    You didn't really miss out. The SC430 is the worst luxury convertible on the market. Lexus benchmarked the old Jaguar XK (a '97 design built on a 1975 platform) when they designed the SC, and it couldn't even compete with that. It's absolutely humiliated by the new XK, SL, and 6. It's also about to be replaced, so its no surprise that they aren't actively promoting it.

    The GS450h is just a heavy, clumsy GS350. The GS is currently the only logical candidate to receive F treatment. If they want to do an SC-F, they'll have to change it from a boulevarder into a sports car first.
  • anthonypanthonyp Posts: 1,857
    Good luck with your new car to be...You will enjoy the experience, as Lexus is first class after the sale...Tony
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Membership is $40 per year, 2 years $76 at bmwcca.org or 1-800-878-9292.

    One can get a rebate of approximately $500-$1000 (depending on the cost of the BMW model) on a new lease, purchase or CPO used vehicle. Transaction must be done at an authorized BMW center (meaning from BMWFS). Membership must be in force for at least 365 consecutive days to get the rebate.

    Membership also includes 12 monthly issues of the BMWCCA magazine "Roundel" which is as I see it, about as good as a car magazine gets. There is a huge letters to the editor section and there are always some non-BMW people-published letters there every month. One guy recently wrote he will keep his RX350 after driving an X5. All opinions are welcome. I like that.
  • topspin628topspin628 Posts: 373
    Thanks, I wish I had been more attentive 12 months ago as I am looking to get a new BMW and I won't be able to take advantage this time around.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I would suggest shopping around to try and bargain down another $500-$1000 off the MSRP if you can, to make up for it. I would e-mail as many internet sales people as I could, unless of course, you already have a deal.

    I wonder how many people join BMWCCA for 2 years at the $76 discounted rate only to find when the time finally comes to purchase or lease, they have become interested in another manufacturer's vehicle. That's the risk.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    Interesting new take. I had no idea that you thought the existing MB and VW/Audi common-rail direct injection diesel engines were/are "clikety-clack, smokey and gutless" before the BlueTec and BlueMotion marketing names are applied to them. . . after all, Audi R10 won LeMans before the marketing term BlueMotion was invented. Shoot, I didn't know you had such a low opinion of current MB and VW/Audi diesel engines, most of which are not yet marketed under the BlueWhatever name.

    the Hybrid Synergy Drive doesn't represent anything new. It's the "Nothing New Drive".

    What a pity, apparently MB can't even duplicate the "Nothing New Drive," and Porsche has think about licensing the "Nothing New Drive." In case it's not obvious, the differences between Toyota's HSD and what Dr. Ferdinand Porsche last tried 60+ years are sufficiently vast that it's not Toyota who's licensing from Porsche but the other way around for HSD. Whether you think there is anything new or not in the HSD, the HSD delivers exactly what the name says: hybrid ICE and electric motor working together turning over the drive shaft. . . hence HSD. In contrast, what's "blue" in a BlueTec car that does not have the optional AdBlue Module?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I wonder how many people join BMWCCA for 2 years at the $76 discounted rate only to find when the time finally comes to purchase or lease, they have become interested in another manufacturer's vehicle. That's the risk.

    A lost $76 to secure a nice discount like that isn't really a big deal. Top Gear Mag is the only one I regularly read besides C&D, and that costs a lot more than $76 for a year.
  • jcobyjcoby Posts: 140
    "Do you know if the electronic gremlins are gone now?"

    Unfortunately, recent historical data does not look good for the 7-series. The 2006 models have had much-worse-than average statistical reliability according to Consumer Reports (and that performance is expected to continue for the 2007 and beyond) and the recently released J.D. Power vehicle dependability study also gave the 2004 7-series very low marks.

    link title

    By contrast, the 2006 5-series had below-average statistical reliability, but it is expected to have average statistical reliability for 2007 and beyond according to Consumer Reports; it is also a "Recommended" and highly-rated vehicle. The J.D. Power vehicle dependability study also rates the 2004 5-series as an average performer in statistical reliability.

    link title

    Overall, it does not appear that you have a significant risk of purchasing a problematic 5-series, but there is a rather high risk of purchasing a problematic 7-series. Even so, your relationship with your local dealership is quite important. If your local BMW dealership has a good reputation and you feel confident that they will take care of you as a valued customer, then I would overlook the risk and go ahead and purchase the 7-series if that is the vehicle that you prefer; a good dealer will stand behind you in times of trouble and significantly mitigate the pain caused by a problematic vehicle.

    Since there is not much risk involved (compared to other vehicles) in purchasing the 5-series and it is roughly $300 less per month to lease, I would most definitely choose the 535i/535xi/550i over the 750i; you will also have 2 additional years (over the 750i) to drive a 5-series before it is redesigned.

    You really should purchase a BMW and nothing else because your statements have made it evident that you are seeking what BMW is renowned for; BMW designed their vehicles to please customers with tastes that are similar to your own. As much as I adore Lexus, I really do not believe that you should lease another LS simply because it was never designed to please someone with your needs and desires in a vehicle.

    If I were in your shoes, I would amicably end my relationship with Lexus and run down to my local BMW dealership to pick out the option packages and color combinations on my new BMW! ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    The only reason Porsche is messing around with the hybrid is to satisfy the marketplace and beurocrats. That doesn't make it a special technology. There's nothing new about an electric motor, a gas engine, or batteries... no matter what fancy name is applied. But, since you bring it up, it wouldn't surprise me to see Porsche do a better job than Toyota with hybrid.

    I had no idea that you thought the existing MB and VW/Audi common-rail direct injection diesel engines were/are "clikety-clack, smokey and gutless" before the BlueTec and BlueMotion marketing names are applied to them

    You are much too concerned about the name "BlueTec". It's just a tradename. "BlueTec"..."NewTec"... "ShmooTec"... who gives a rat's tail what they call it? Oh that's right... you do.

    I never said the recent diesel engines you mentioned were bad engines. You are incorrect in your assumption. I was in fact illustrating that the BlueTec engine has technology not found in the older generation of diesels. It's a little disappointing that you don't understand that... but I'm not surprised. You have already posted that you are unable to see and understand any of the technical advances incorporated into the "BlueTec" engine other than the urea solution... even after I posted some of them.

    Your bias against new modern clean diesels is showing again.

    TagMan
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    The only reason Porsche is messing around with the hybrid is to satisfy the marketplace and beurocrats.

    That's quite a laugh . . . after all, the emphasis of BlueTec (as opposed to Common Rail TDI) is on emission control; blue liquid urea solution is injected to the exhaust gas not intake air. Hybrid on the other hand has such a huge performance advantage that it is banned from car races, just like AWD . . . the "unfair advantage" schtick.

    You are much too concerned about the name "BlueTec". It's just a tradename. "BlueTec"..."NewTec"... "ShmooTec"... who gives a rat's tail what they call it?

    So what's so fantastic about the arrival of an empty tradename?

    I never said the recent diesel engines you mentioned were bad engines.

    So what's that "clickty-clacky smoky" description for diesel engines before the arrival of BlueTec about? I mean, shouldn't the latest product be compared to the most recent immediate predecessor? Not some old jalopy from decades ago?

    I was in fact illustrating that the BlueTec engine has technology not found in the older generation of diesels.

    You might just be a genius and know something that not even the MB engineers know. Aside from messing with the emission system (to what extent, not even the MB guys know for sure) ouside the engine, in order to "satisfy . . . beaurocrats" (in your words), "Bluetec" offers hardly anything in the engine department that is not in the common-rail TDI that has been on the market for the last half decade. 208hp from a 3L engine is not exactly a performance breakthrough.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    hahaha, we shall see if it happens to us (becoming interested in something else). I actually bought two memberships for two years, 'cuz we may just pick up two cars if we find the time to bring the baby and the nanny to a European trip next spring. At $85, it's a cheap call option for a couse of action that has roughly 50% of happening (the other 50% being Lexus offering alternatives to the 335i convertible and X3 at a price level competitive to BMW leases; somehow I doubt it).
  • bristol2bristol2 Posts: 736
    "Bluetec" offers hardly anything in the engine department that is not in the common-rail TDI that has been on the market for the last half decade

    Let's be clear.
    Bluetec is unrelated to the engine technology.

    Bluetec is an emissions control system that is designed to satisfy emissions regulations to allow passenger diesel (<8500 #) vehicles in the CARB states.

    Not a change to the engine.
    No one is arguing that it is an engine change.
    Not even MB.
    Not even Tagman.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Thank you, Bristol2.
    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    As I've posted before, BLUETEC is more than just urea injection. As briefly explained on the Mercedes Benz website, BLUETEC incorporates four after-treatment units in the exhaust stream - an oxidizing catalytic converter, a particulate filter, an advanced "denox" storage converter, and a SCR catalytic converter.

    To meet even more stringent emission requirements the BLUETEC system could be equipped with another module - AdBlue injection. A water-based urea solution, AdBlue is carried in its own small tank and metered into the exhaust in minute quantities, so small that the tank only needs to be refilled during routine scheduled maintenance. When AdBlue is injected into pre-cleaned exhaust gas, ammonia (NH3) is released, converting nitrogen oxides into harmless nitrogen (and water) in the downstream SCR catalytic converter. Called SCR, for selective catalytic reduction, this process creates the most effective method of exhaust gas after-treatment currently available.

    In Europe, AdBlue injection has already proven effective in more than 15,000 Mercedes-Benz commercial vehicles, and the AdBlue supply network covers some 1,500 locations.

    Not only is BLUETEC the cleanest diesel technology in the world, which can meet the most stringent emissions standards, but it also helps customers make tangible fuel savings and reduce dependence on oil imports. With its super-clean exhaust, BLUETEC can also increase the appeal and the sheer availability of diesel vehicles.


    It should be clear that BLUETEC is more than urea injection. And... liking or disliking the tradename is irrelevant to the technology.

    TagMan
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    " A lost $76 ... that isn't really a big deal."

    I guess I'm kind of a low risk kind of guy. Sort of why I drive a 545i. :shades:
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Special instructions for you to get the BMWCCA rebate:

    1.Make sure you sign the rebate form with your real name.

    2.Wear dark sunglasses.

    3.Do not bring samples of your BMW financial analysis postings with you. ;)

    Different mentality from BMW. Lexus and Acura want consumers to buy, not lease.

    I could buy an MDX today for 2.9% from Honda Finance. Still higher than my 545i rental fee of 2.4%, but, nevertheless, a good deal. Leasing the same MDX from them would cost me 5%.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    Finally we can all agree on something: BLUETEC stands for after-treament systems for exhaust emission control. In other words (In tagman's words): to satisfy bureacrats.

    So what's so exciting about BLUETEC? whether it actually contains anything blue or not? Whether it is legal or not? whether it is durable or not? It's just a trademark for a disparate set of experimentations on exhaust gas, the composition and application of which are all still quite in the alpha-trial stages. At least EV-1, as short-lived as it was, could boast concrete terms of what it was: it actually was an Electric Vehicle. BLUETEC is just a bunch of nonsense high-school science projects cobbled together to mislead the MB fans into believing it is actually a real piece of engine technology that delivers smooth and powerful diesel engine, when in fact it has nothing to do with engine technology, noise or power. Failure after failure as a deliverable car to consumers in the CARB states, BLUETEC has somehow suceeded in preaching to the faithful who desperate want something to believe, who are all too willing to gobbe up the marketting nonsense.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    I'd be quite eager to subopena their books and file a class action suit on behalf all those who are denied the rebate if they deny mine :-)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Some personally directed posts have been removed.

    Brightness and Tagman please agree to disagree and leave this argument behind. You've been having it for months now.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I'm sure everybody gets the rebate who follows the simple rules spelled out by BMWCCA.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    I sure hope so. It would be bad business to deny people $500-1000 rebates, as opposed to monkeying around with $50 rebates like Young America has gotten itself into. People may not bother with $50 rebates, but they certainly care about the bigger ones.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    LOL!! Is there really such a place as Young America? I don't know how many rebate forms I've sent there over the years. Heh! Heh!

    At least with BMWCCA you can follow up and talk to someone. Have you ever spoken to a rebate worker in Young America? ;)
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    IIRC, Young America is such a huge organization that they run their own town called Young America . . . kinda scary for a rebate fulfillment company . . . how much money is in underwriting those things anyway.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I just know that about 10 years after my death, that $5.33 rebate check will be forwarded to my heirs from somewhere deep in Young America. ;)
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    hahaha, I have that tendency too, of dragging my feet on filing rebates. I'm currently sitting on a $100 rebate for a monitor and a $250 one for a camcorder. It's just such a hassle to scan, copy and send certified letter on those things. The irony is that, us not filing them is what keeps those rebate nonsenses in business, and Young America rich :-( I have developed habit of sending in a 4x6 photo of all the items that I'm enclosing in the certified envelope, just to warn them not to mess with me. A lot of people are denied by Young America on claims of incomplete submission.

    At least, BMWCCA does not require the cutting off the VIN from the dashboard for proof like most consumer electronics rebates require of the barcode, leaving a gaping hole on the box. Would be funny though if they did ;-)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    That would be something-having to cut off the VIN as proof of purchase to get the rebate. I hope it never comes to that!

    Let's also hope BMWCCA never disconnects their phone and moves to Young America! :surprise:
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Acura is supposedly so upset over the RL's acceptance(or lack thereof) in the US, they are thinking of ways to rejuvenate the model lineup.

    There is chatter that from one known Acura source that they are going to drop a 320-350hp version of the '08's Accord 3.5L V6 to compete with some of the other entrants V8 models. The 290hp V6 will become the base engine.

    It is not known if they're going to call it the RL-S or Type-S.

    But more importantly, there is even more talk of a price reduction. Whether this involves decontenting has yet to be ascertained.

    Tweaks to the SH-AWD and improved interior and wheel choices round out the supposed changes.

    One question though: Why? Why is it so hard for one of the leading companies in technology to build a legit RWD midsize? I wish they'd get it through their heads that if they build it, people will come.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    The long-awaited RS6 is supposed to be released for NA shores in 2nd quarter '08.

    Rumors have been floating that Audi will put 600-650hp in the engine bays of the babies, just enough to stave off M5's and E63's plus shutdown Cadillac's upcoming CTS-v which is rumored to have the Z06 engine or the new 600hp supercharged 6.2L.

    Pricing was said to ring in the high 80's-lower 90's, to start of course.

    I can't wait. :)
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