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2008 Cadillac CTS

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Comments

  • mick1mick1 Member Posts: 84
    Please look for a different car. In my humble opinion, you're not a person worthy of a new cadi. The CTS is stiff competion for the new Mercedes C350 which i checked out the other day. Give the Germans a shot.
  • bingomanbingoman Member Posts: 373
    Why in the world do you need to "properly see the hood"?

    I've driven the last 10 years without seeing the hood. If I need to see the hood I park the car and get out to check. So far it has not gone missing. I also find that I can quite well determine where the front of the car is without "seeing the hood". If you cannot judge where the ends of your car are please do not drive in my neighborhood.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    Well, my dealership finally got product in the last several days and it was time to bring my SRX in for service anyway. I was very interested in this car...many of you regulars remember me owning a 2003 CTS LuxSport before trading it for the 2005 SRX when my wife and I had kids. Well a third kid is on the way which means the SRX's days are numbered (it just wasn't designed for constant use of the third row seat). But the CTS is all new and I couldn't pass up a chance to try it at my dealer.

    As many of you also know, my username here is nearly my height...I'm actually 6'11". The old CTS and SRX cabins fit me snuggly but comfortably....all things considered (no car truly has a perfect seating position for me and my 40" inseam legs). I've noticed in the last decade that fewer cars fit me well with the advent of sweeping cockpit style cabins. Those curvy lines and my knees generally don't mix. So I was more than worried about this with the new CTS interior.

    Well I'm here to tell you that the CTS's legroom is BETTER than the old car...significantly. I don't know if anyone at Cadillac was paying attention to me...maybe it was Bob Lutz since he's tall too. But the 2008 CTS's seating position is better for me than the outgoing vehicle. My knees still bow but at a better angle than before. I have enough room with my right knee to negotiate the pedals and keep away from the steering wheel. It's still not enough to manage a clutch on a regular basis for a stick shift, but it would be easier to handle than the previous car by far.

    There are two reasons for the improvement. First, the seat just goes back farther than the old seat...probably because the new thinner seats give them some more leeway. Of course, that only leaves room for small women or children sitting behind me, but hey, I DON'T CARE! The second reason is that a tilt AND telescoping steering column is standard now. Even the entry model tilts and telescopes manually...bravo Cadillac for getting this right for people who don't get the electric one in the Luxury package.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    However, I can't praise the seating without one big gripe. First a small gripe...the seat is a little short but not enough to be annoying (I can make up for it in the tilt function). My biggest beef with the seats in the headrest. The old CTS (and SRX) headrests are smaller designs than the 2008 CTS, more cylindrical that adjust up/down AND fore/aft. It allowed for easy manipulation for a good fit, but I doubt the front/back adjustment was good in crash tests. The new design doesn't fore/aft adjustment and that would be fine...except the shape of the headrest is maddening. The new headrest is thicker at the bottom and tapers to the top, like a 3-D trapezoid. The thickness of the bottom means that it slightly thicker than seat back underneath it. For a normal sized driver, that thicker part is supposed to fit under the base of the head for proper support.

    But since I'm taller than most drivers, my torso meets this headrest right between my shoulders. And it's impossible to raise it up enough so that it meets the base of my skull as designed...I could use about another 1 1/2 inches of travel. At first, I thought this was a complete deal killer since I couldn't find a position comfortable that didn't shove the headrest between my shoulders and piss me off to no end. But after a lot of trying (aided by the lower headroom of the sunroof option), I finally found a position that worked. I but the seat back as far as I could, lowered it as much as I could, tilted it back as far as I could and adjusted the seat rake until my head fit underneath the headliner. That allowed the headrest to pointback and away from me enough that it wasn't touching my torso anymore, but was still within about an inch or so of my head in case of a rear end collision.

    Cadillac engineers: hear me out. Please go find any late model Volvo and study the headrest design carefully. Steal that design. You will make me (and a lot of us tall folk) very happy. If that's not possible, add another notch or two to the travel of the current headrest.

    The rest of the interior design generally makes me very happy. After looking at the same "PC Tower" design in my last two Cadillacs, I'm happy to see improvement across the board with the new design. My wife sat in the car later and really liked it too. Is the design completely original? Nope! But to me, if you had to steal from someone (and they did), Acura wasn't a bad place to do it. Most of the reviews of this interior have been favorable although I've seen some complaints of it looking cheap (I don't agree) and too much French stitching (again, I don't agree...nobody complained about that on the Audi TT).

    One interior gripe unique to me...the climate controls are no longer in one place but are split for the front seat passengers. There is a little OLED display for the temp, fan speed and seat heating/cooling on each side of the dash near your knee. That's fine for most people, but my bowing knees blocks the display (and the buttons for the controls). Well, my knees usually block something in almost all cars. Again, its a gripe.

    There are a lot of buttons about the CTS center console, but most seem to be intentially beveled and shaped to be different from one another...a nice touch. There is a rotating knob in the middle that doesn't do as much as some designs...and that's probably a good thing to keep it simple. I tried both the regular and Nav equipped models. The Nav system is a nice idea....I have seen other "pop-up"
    models that weren't as well executed. The UI seems to be well thought out...not Apple iPod friendly but better than most of its competitors. I don't know if it supports voice commands or not....Acura leads the pack in this.

    Bluetooth being dealer installed is inexcusable....this should get fixed at some point...hopefully it won't take all model year. I heard one of the dealer reps say that maybe GM was reluctant since they make money on OnStar phone minutes. If so, that's a very weak excuse. On a positive note, the Tivo-like radio functionality is a long time in coming for cars. The 40-gig hard drive helps here, but I'm wary putting hard drives in automotive applications. A flash drive will be better...in two years I suspect costs will be down to the point that this will be the norm. Hard drives fail...period.

    Now let's talk about the sunroof. There's been a lot of talk and griping about this design. Personally as an SRX owner, I see many design elements in this car. The most obvious (and controversial) is the sunroof screen. This non-rigid shade design is straight out of the SRX, so I'm used to it. The big difference is that they perforated the screen to allow some sun to continue to come inside. I'm not sure how much I like that since there may be some occasions where you don't want any light coming in through the roof. But I usually just kept the shade open in my last CTS and I suspect it will be the same for this car.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    So what's the driving like? Well, I've recently driven the Acura RL and Infiniti M35. Both were wonderful drives and this CTS certainly rides with this crowd. I test drove the 3.6 DI engine with the sport package. The extra two inches of track makes the car well planted and stable. Although the car has more weight than the outgoing car, the new engine makes up for it...bottom line is that the car didn't seem as heavy as it really was. I'm sure the slower non-DI engine will bring me back to earth somewhat. Steering is on the light side...far lighter than the previous CTS and especially lighter than the 2003 LuxSport with its variable steering gear. It takes a little bit getting used to if you are a previous owner, but it's closer to the steering feel of the aformentioned competitors.

    The course we took didn't get me the twisties I would have liked but I did get a chance to do a couple of curves, one that due to cobblestones ended up being reigned in by Stabilitrack. The steering wheel is a tad smaller than the old one...a good design decision. The gauges were professional and easy to read. The parking brake is still on the floor though...is this a Sigma chassis issue or did Ed Wellburn not want to mess up his pretty dash with a handheld parking brake? Bottom line is that my limited experience driving was a pleasing one...check out the FE2 suspension if you have a chance.

    Speaking of Ed Wellburn, the styling of the new car is one of his better design efforts. The grill is in your face but textured and stylish...and they looked at every part of the front clip down to the pavement. The chrome engine vents on the side fenders look best in person. Also, there is a design element that I really like with these vents....there is a creased depression from the A-pillar leading to the vent. That same style creased depressed follows the rear windows and goes up the C-pillars....it's something I completely missed in the photography of this car but it gives the CTS more texture without the obvious creases of the slab sides of the outgoing car. This is the design the old STS should have been. Instead, that car is completely boring to look at. The CTS teases you with little details like this without being garish...there's a fine like between styling and garish...just check out the Pontiac Aztek concept vehicle versus the POS they put in production. Other details? The trademark tail lights flare rearward from the car a bit from the trunk lid, again giving texture to what would normally be a slab design. The fenders wheel openings flare gently (but powerfully) as opposed to the industrial curves of the older car. And the door handles are the electronic switch type of the STS versus the mechanical level of the old CTS and SRX (they look like the older style door handles but don't be fooled). And its almost impossible to talk about the new "light piping" in the daylight, so I won't.

    Truthfully I was going into my dealership not wanting to get my hopes up...thinking I was going to end up getting something else (like the aformentioned competitors). Now I'm all excited about this car again.

    Thank you Cadillac. This is a well done vehicle and it shows, inside and out.
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    Do you work for Cadillac? Just kidding. You give me real hope that the driver seat will be comfortable for a looong drive, and that my head won't touch the roof.
  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    Nice pics on the site too!

    image
  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    Here are the other two:

    image

    image
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,498
    Thanks for the review, Richard.

    I've bloviated (at length) about never owning another American sports sedan after my abysmal experience with my Lincoln LS -- not the car, the company, especially the (mis)management.

    The extremely positive reports on the new CTS keep coming in, so I may need to reconsider. Yours carries considerably more weight, given your long history. Thanks again.

    Hope you're able to indulge in one of these if you're that way inclined. We'll look forward to future reviews and/or comments.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    http://www.cadillac.com/allnewcts/

    You will see tons of video and pictures of the car--in and out.

    You can see Cadillac's official video channel here:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/MyCadillacStory
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    No, I don't work for Cadillac :-) but I do admit to having a fascination for the marque since I was a kid. The first Caddys I remember were my grandparents...my grandfather had a '74 Coupe Deville and then he bought my grandmother a '76 Fleetwood...that promptly broke it's rear axel leaving the parking lot of the dealership (true story!). She ended up taking a silver Sedan Deville off the same lot and this was the car she drove until she couldn't drive anymore. My mother's first Caddy was a '79 Seville (the Nova-mobile). Actually, that was a good car...I took that car to the prom.

    My first Caddy was my second car...a '80 Coupe Deville I got used and drove for a few years in college (shared with my brother). For the sake of trivia, my first car was an '80 Chevy Citation....now THAT was a POS car! Anyway, next car after the Deville was a '90 Mazda 626...that ended up throwing a timing belt and destroying the engine (dealer repair shop fault). After that I bought my mother's used '91 Sedan Deville that lasted until 2000 when it met an early end having tangled with a city bus (the Deville lost...no surprise there).

    With no car (but a new wife), I drove her car (a '94 Ford Escort) for two years not replacing the Deville (I traveled for a living anyway) but after a while, it got embarassing driving "Zippy the Wondercar". True story...my wife and I were celebrating our wedding anniversary and we drove to a nice restaurant in Buckhead (Atlanta) near where we lived then. Watching the valet watch me unfold out of the car was priceless...and embarassing. I mean, I should be rolling in something better than Zippy! Well after dinner we come out to the valet line and we were faced with 10 couples getting their vehicles. The valets return with BMWs, Mercedes, Land Rover...and then Zippy. I turn to my wife and say "Run for it!". Shortly thereafter, we buy the 2003 CTS LuxSport. After all, I got to roll in something better.

    Ironically, these days my wife drives the SRX and I drive a '94 Toyota Camry that I bought from a friend for the princely sum of $5. With the SRX soon to be sacrificed for a minivan, I might get an opportunity for a 2008 CTS sometime in the next year....we'll see.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    I appreciate that you think my word on this issue has some merit, but in truth I'm probably not much different than the rest of you. I like Cadillac and its history but I try not to be as much as a fanboy these days since they have to earn my dollars like anyone else. I'm happy that with this car that GM seems to have largely addressed all the issues with the previous vehicle...and some of its sister cars along the way. The tranformation of Cadillac continues and it hasn't been a instant process...or successful on all fronts. The 2nd and 2rd gen Escalades do well but the STS and XLR come up short. Both cars show Cadillac is trying but were still hampered by preventable mistakes.

    I feel your pain with Lincoln. Ford really screwed the proverbial pooch with the brand having created goodwill with customers and the automotive press with the original LS and the Navigator. Then they squandered it by not improving their other products and letting the LS languish. No effort was made to upgrade Lincon dealers, most of which were (and still are) carrying Mercury as a subbrand. Ford has been trying to rectify some of that recently but where we they in the last 8 years? Unbelievable.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Introduction (some not altogether unrelated factoids)

    • One of our friends sells BMW’s – yet he drives an Audi. He tells us that his dealership sells 40%+ AWD BMW’s, because they can’t get any more than that.

    • Another friend, our salesperson since the 80’s sells Audis and drives one.

    • Our Audi dealer is owned by a Cadillac dealer and our Cadillac salesperson has been with the dealership for 14 years and says that for the past two years 90% of the Cadillac’s she sells are AWD and that she believes the NEW CTS will “kill” the STS until a new and improved STS is introduced.

    • I currently drive a 2005 Audi A6 (3.2) with every option except the sport suspension, but with the 18” 245 x 40 wheels and tires; it has about 44,000 miles on it. My monthly payment on the thing which MSRP’d at $53,286 is $640 and I put nothing down on a 36 month 45K mile lease (I added 3K miles to the lease a couple of months ago at $.16 per mile.)

    • My wife and I have test driven many cars that are considered here as ELLPS and LPS and CUV’s.

    • We have had 28 Audis, 2 BMW’s and 3 VW’s since 1977 (between us.)

    • We have been to 4 driver training schools in Germany (Audi), 1 in America (BMW), and several various “Car and Driver” events in SW Ohio.

    • I took a very nice, very long test drive of a new CTS 3.6 DI engine with about $12,000+ worth of options including the FE2 suspension, performance brakes, All Season 18” tires/wheels and AWD (over $48,000.) I drove into the dealer in my A6 tested the CTS and drove out again in my A6 (note: my A6 has “nearly new” tires and literally new brakes.

    • Last weekend, my wife and I tested, extensively a new Infiniti G35X with all options (about $40,000.)

    • The CTS tested was BLACK on BLACK – this made the car look small on the exterior, feel confining in the interior and overall would require a SERIOUS discount for it to even be considered (but, this is the most personal aspect of the entire experience.) I actually sat in a car that had a beige interior and it was not at all confining, FWIW.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Impressions of the CTS

    • Interior

    Perhaps only Audi, in virtually any class of car that “mere mortals” can afford, produces a better interior than in this new CTS – and, “for the money,” the CTS offers up perhaps the best rendition of the “ideal interior” of any other car in this (ELLPS) or in the next class up (LPS.) This is an aesthetic impression, however. The controls are BMW difficult to figure out – i.e., despite 30 months of living with Audi’s MMI and owning a 2005 vintage BMW, I could not (without looking in the manual) master the controls for the radio, HDD, navigation and climate control system – and, the voice recognition system was reminiscent of my 1987 Audi 5000 CS turbo quattro’s Motorola voice activated phone system. It was “state and repeat and repeat” to get the radio to change stations. Even the somewhat lame Audi system works about 98% of the time, first time. On*Star works great (Audi must use the same voice program for its Bluetooth system, since the Cadillac responded exactly as my Audi phone system.)

    No Bluetooth? Serious oversight. Confused the salesperson too, who said, “the STS has it, so it is unlikely we don’t know how to do it.”

    The view from either front seat is “expensive.” Slightly better than the Infiniti and, as noted, damn near as good as is offered in an Audi.

    Love the “stitched” dash. Love the feel of the switchgear – like expensive, high end audio equipment, in fact.

    The back seat legroom is “adequate” (a bit better than an A4 or a 3 series and even a smidge better than the Infiniti G35X) – frankly considering the wheelbase, I would not argue if someone commented it was “marginally adequate.” How come the A6 with a 111” wheelbase has more rear seat leg room?

    If the front seat accommodations can be likened to business class, well, the rear is certainly coach. Better than the outgoing CTS, but still an area that is simply, er, “not unacceptable.”

    Only the sunroof appears to be completely out of place, an afterthought, in this car – “cheesecloth” [or so it would seem] was the chosen fabric for the inner shield. “It lets 70% of the light through,” the salesperson gushed. Yet, she also said she couldn’t imagine this roof making it into the next model year. Do ya think?!? How it is that you can configure the car with all the options, minus the sunroof, and PAY more than a car with the premium lux pkg, which includes the roof is beyond me. I would expect a CREDIT for getting the roof, especially if I had kids or lived anywhere summer was a season.

    Finally, despite the overall goodness of the interior it has no front seat ceiling mounted “grab handles” like the Germans and most of the Japanese. I really missed it during spirited runs – this is a serious (and cheap) omission. I would attempt to find custom grab handles and have them mounted.

    The elevator screen – I did not hate it, but it would be a mistake to say that it is “cool.” It is cool that it can move up and down, but when it is up it breaks up the otherwise beautifully sculpted dash. I would rather have seen a permanent screen built into the dash – the thing looks like an “up periscope” when it is in “full business” mode. I would deduct for this, despite the fact that folks under the age of 16 will probably love it months after the initial sizzle wanes.

    The sound system, especially on XM is, as you would expect, wonderful – the Audi B&O system is better, as is the BMW high-zoot system, but they cost more. I could live with the Cadillac audio experience for a long time. The HDD capability is pretty cool, like TIVO for your car’s audio.

    Summary: overall I like the interior, a lot. The controls, however, are not as intuitive as the Audi MMI system or the Infiniti system (especially the Infiniti system’s voice commands) and it is not as attractive as even the BMW iDrive system – the Cadillac seems a mite busy. The Infiniti system might be the best hybrid system out there – surprise!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    • Exterior

    The new CTS is, to my eye, gorgeous – maybe, just maybe, the DI equipped car (black) had a drop or two, too much, of bling (chrome accents), but like so much of this aspect, everything literally is in the eye of the beholder. The car is handsome from any angle and the fit and finish are impressive. The wheels (bright on this fully optioned car) were fine – the limited choice of wheels, I’m sure, will be short lived. Were one to buy this new CTS on looks alone – well, I think that wouldn’t be a sin. Beautiful to behold in person (even in black.) The white diamond and new ruby red pearl looking paint are “an 11” on a scale of 1-10.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    • Driving

    Read Automobile, Car & Driver, Motor Trend, Road & Track, USA Today, The New York Times, Forbes and as many blogs as you can find. Generally speaking, the reviews of the car from behind the wheel are all pretty to very, very positive. Some of the reviews gush. I would have to say this is “the best Cadillac ever.” But, I’ve never driven the Supercharged STS-V (I have driven the outgoing CTS-V and this 3.6DI, although certainly not as powerful, was more satisfying), so maybe I don’t have a full appreciation of what the “art and science” have been up to the last few years.

    The CTS engine and transmission are like a great couple dancing (of the kind where people actually touch each other.) Smooth and precise? There aren’t enough “o’s” in smooth to do this pair justice. At full cry the engine is very pleasing and right at the point where one more RPM would perhaps make the cry cross the line to a rasp, the transmission up shifts and the sweet swelling scream starts all over again. In classical music terms, the new engine reminds me of Bolero; in more contemporary terms, the sound from under hood is like the last half of Tubular Bells as we await the exclamation “and Tubular Bells!”

    Brakes – I’d give these performance brakes an A- only (probably) because the car had about 247 miles on it and they seemed to require a tad too much travel (than I’m used to, your situation may differ, of course.) I assume this would get better within a few more miles.

    Our tester, as noted, as the AWD all optioned and FE2 suspension (called the sport suspension) equipped model. It had 50 series, 235 x 18 tires and wheels (all seasons but either HP or UHP Mich brand.) Of the “things” that can even remotely be called disappointments, this suspension convinced me that the base suspension must be darn near dangerous and that it is a pity that the FE3 calibration is not offered on the AWD models. Why? I drove my A6 standard suspension to the dealer on two Cincinnati Interstate routes, I-71 and I-275. Years of frost heaves, pot hole repairs and other ravages of time give these surfaces a feel not unlike a mild roller coaster. Needed to drive on these at speed and with confidence – a well damped controlled and firm (yet compliant) suspension and tire wheel “kit.” The Cadillac goes over a rise with aplomb, returns well controlled and damn if it doesn’t “cycle” (float or bob up and down ONCE more when both my Audi and my wife’s BMW simply regains composure and is ready for the next one.)

    The Cadillac is comfortable and I was not in fear of losing control (I never went above 85MPH during the freeway portion of our test.) Yet, the suspension was not up to even the 2005 A6’s comfort suspension’s capability. My wife’s X3 with the sport suspension is down right jarring, but it could never be accused of floating or bobbing uuuuppppp and dowwwwnnn after cresting a frost-heave on I-275.

    Of course we took it on some twisty roads and into some familiar corners (15MPH marked) at triple the posted speed – a little bit of plow, but the understeer was minimal, dare I say almost BMW like. I do dare. But even coming out of this corner, there was that damn “suspension cycle” as if the springs and shocks were doing all they could to “recover gracefully” – not resume a sporty demeanor. I even got out and checked the window sticker to make sure the thing had the sport suspension. I could hardly believe it.

    Most of the glowing behind the wheel reports about the CTS do seem to have come from folks who drove the FE3 equipped version. If you drive the CTS FE2 equipped version back to back with an Audi, BMW or even an Infiniti, well you may notice this – if you come from some other approach, you may find the FE2 suits you just fine.

    Recap

    Almost all goodness. Too much goodness to repeat, this thing is a winner in almost every way.

    The oversights:

    1. No factory Bluetooth
    2. No OMG front driver and/or passenger ceiling mounted grab handles
    3. Foot operated parking brake
    4. Cheap sunroof (the inner sunroof panel) and no economical way NOT to get one with this
    5. Floaty suspension (sport?) – but this one I think I could overlook (I’d get used to it.)
    6. If it is discounted (to make it a “bargain”), it may bite into some A6, 5 series and M35 sales since it seems more like the LPS cars, today, than the ELLPS cars it is priced against (mostly.)
    7. It will bite into STS sales – if it doesn’t it is because Cadillac will improve the STS to differentiate it from the CTS. Today, there would be little motivation to spend the extra dough on the STS.

    Frankly, if they cure the cheap sunroof and add Bluetooth, all is forgiven, sign me up – I’ll just hold onto the steering wheel and grin. :surprise: :shades:
  • knotemknotem Member Posts: 62
    "Frankly, if they cure the cheap sunroof and add Bluetooth, all is forgiven, sign me up – I’ll just hold onto the steering wheel and grin"

    markcincinnati,

    Kudos! Sign me up too.
  • snagssnags Member Posts: 27
    I looked at the CTS and is certainly good looking in pearl white.

    It seems as though there are mixed reviews relative to some of the things included and not included.

    The sun roof covering seems to an issue as well as lack of bluetooth.

    Also the ride gets different write ups from different people.

    I like the car but am beginning to think the new MB c class may be a better value. Any comments?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Compare the 2008 C300 4MATIC, the G35X and the CTS4 3.6DI.

    Equip them similarly (which is difficult, considering that the Mercedes will have 228HP and a 108" wheelbase, making it the runt of the bunch):

    MB=$48,900
    Infiniti=$41,000
    Cadillac=$48,300

    For brand or for image, it is hard to argue that the new C class is anything but a very nice car. It is not very spirited, however.

    For the most BMW like experience behind the wheel and "the best" and most technology, the new G35X with all options and the new for '08 sport package can't be beat. It also has a longer wheelbase than the MB.

    For the best take on American Luxury Sport -- perhaps ever -- the CTS would be your choice. It has a "few" glaring oversights that one would imagine will be rectified in less than one year.

    The G35X can be had in Pearl White and the thing drives the best of the three. It, to my eye, looks, er, "less substantial, perhaps less expensive (perhaps)" than the other two. But it is nearly $8K less and has over 300HP and it drives very very German-like (more, to me, than does the CTS.)

    The CTS, for the moment is just so good looking (again, to my eye) and "if" they add bluetooth and "fix" the tacky sunroof and offer up an agressive lease program (which they almost certainly will), it is "just right."

    Driving the Infiniti, however, is an eye opener -- it is the Japanese BMW "4 series" if you asked me.

    :confuse:

    Drive it like you live.
  • rem506rem506 Member Posts: 13
    I'm entering the negotiation stage at my dealership and I want to find out what others are actually paying for their 08 CTS. Does anyone know of an organized list containing this information? I would also like to know the dealer incentives, residual values, kickbacks, etc.... What is the best source of this information?
  • michael2003michael2003 Member Posts: 144
    You might want to look through the postings for Fitzgeralds Auto Malls. They would at least give you an easy bargaining position to start from.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    It was white, 3.6DI, loaded with the full view sunroof. It looked good, the front looks more reserved in person, the side still looks confused and the rear is just your typical Cadillac.

    It was parked in a shopping mall garage, as we drove by I asked my girlfriend how she like it. She said it looks pretty good then quickly added that it's for older people...
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    You might want to keep an eye on these two discussions:

    Cadillac CTS Prices Paid and Buying Experience
    Cadillac CTS Lease Questions
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    I saw my first one on the road today, it was silver and looked great. The car looks like a concept car, it was beautiful as far as I could tell.
  • daaaviddaaavid Member Posts: 2
    I just came back from looking at, sitting in, and driving a 2008 CTS. Although I loved almost everything about it, I can't understand how people who are brilliant enough to put out such a wonderful car, can be stupid enough to include that awful sun roof. Aside from looking cheap and kindof ugly, which I could probably live with, there is no way to block out all of the heat and light, which I could not live with. When I am driving and want to block out heat and light, but cannot do so, I think that is unforgivable. If I was Cadillac I would make the sunroof a mid-year change, because I guarantee you that I am not the only sale they will lose because of this. If I sound angry, I am, because I really wanted to buy this car, but feel forced to look elsewhere. GRRRRR.
  • golfnut5golfnut5 Member Posts: 202
    I don't know why the whole damn roof has to be cut open to begin with. Rear seat riders don't need a view of the moon. That is the price you pay for not calling shot gun. I have a problem with no grab handles above the front windows. The grab handles make a three hour drive much more comfortable. I am still going to buy an 08 CTS, but with no sun roof.
  • knotemknotem Member Posts: 62
    You’re not the only sale they already lost. I was thinking the same thing; how come the best Cadillac in 50 years has the worst, good for nothing, sunroof panel; I wouldn’t buy a used Geo Metro with that kind of sunroof. I think the answer is the one who designed it probably from the upper management that nobody would dare to tell him Sir, your shade suck.

    I hope they’ll have a fix even before mid-year; I’m waiting until January for the 2008 NAIAS to see what Cadillac has to offer, at the mean time I’m looking at the 08 E Class, and the 5 Series. Yes it’ll cost around $10K more, but I won’t have to face the heat.
  • ral1960ral1960 Member Posts: 74
    I'm only 6'2", but I'm long in the trunk and have the same problem with many headrests, especially Japanese cars. GM's new Lambda crossovers have the same problem--it needs to go another half inch higher or backward to avoid my neck. The engineers are trying to make a more effective head restraint for 95% of the people, but forgot about the not normally shaped.
  • paopao Member Posts: 1,867
    alread checked there..their no haggle prices are about 4-500 off MSRP right now....I can go through my buying service....priced one out right at 41K MSRP..and can get it for just over 38k through my buying service...1SA, auto, luxury 1 package, and performance package, upgraded sound less nav, ....and a few other small items on it...
  • puckspucks Member Posts: 47
    I guess I don't understand the whole sunshade issue. If you don't want any sun, don't buy a sunroof. Why buy a sunroof and then keep the thing covered the whole time? What's the point? Where I live, we have 4 seasons - and three of the four will be great with a sunroof. And they invented A/C for the summer months.
  • rem506rem506 Member Posts: 13
    It's not as simply as "If you don't want the sun, don't buy a sunroof." With a traditional sunroof, the sun is there when you want it and gone when you don't. The driver has the best of both worlds. Now, with the untraview sunshade, the "gone when you don't" option has been removed. The sun is now there when you want it and 50% gone when you don't want it. This is clearly a step backward. Also, to get the car without the sunroof is uneconomical considering the bundled price of the Premium luxury collection.
  • daaaviddaaavid Member Posts: 2
    I live my sunroof and have either the roof open or at least the shade back most of the time. I love the fresh air, the way the car brightens up, and the open feel. I have never owned a car without a sunroof. The problem is, some days it is excessively hot, or I have a passenger who is sensitive to light, or for whatever reason, I would like to shut it all out. Maybe it is only 10% of the time but it is still important.
    Its like I love my navigation system. Even though I only use it 10 times a year, I want it to perform optimally when I do use it and have control over it.
    It just doesn't make any sense. Every car manufacturer in the world offers a shade that allows the car owner to decide whether he prefers a sunroof to be "open or closed". I do not think this is a small issue, and I am not that picky of a car owner. As I said, I could live with the appearance of it, but not this silly oversight.
    Don't you ever want your sunshade to be totally closed?
  • knotemknotem Member Posts: 62
    "Panoramic moonroof
    Cadillac says the optional panoramic moonroof covers more than 70 percent of the roof. The sunshade is thin, which Cadillac says enables it to roll into a smaller space and preserve rear headroom. All the same, it does a poor job blocking out the sun and mitigating wind noise. A smaller, conventional moonroof is not available."

    http://research.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?revid=52131&makeid=8&modelid=6128&y- ear=2008&revlogtype=20&section=reviews

    Just click on "moonroof photo"
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Sunroof issue:

    The sunroof, the glass part, is fine -- probably bigger than most people want, but even if it is the "focus group" ideal size, the fact that it cannot be fully blocked is an issue and the cheap gauze or cheesecloth like covering is another.

    To add, for some, insult to injury, you cannot delete the sunroof without spending MORE money. The bundling of option groups sees to your ability to get a very nice car with a cheap looking sunroof and to avoid this, PAY MORE!

    What were they thinking?

    But, the bigger issue, in my mind, is the lack of bluetooth, especially when cars FAR LESS EXPENSIVE offer bluetooth that integrates with the audio system and incorporates on*star dialing capabilities but allows the access of voice mail. If on*star's price were cut 50%, it would still be unusable for anyone who buys or sells stuff, manages people and stuff and needs to access voice mail jail.

    A smaller issue is the lack of the OMG handles for the front seat occupants.

    The pedal operated brake is "OK" but a lever or electronic brake might have been keeping with the times.

    Finally, the adaptatation of the "sort of" keyless ignition is also "OK" but the "other guys" keep upping the ante for electronics and gizmos and the CTS is not even "state of the art" 2004, let alone 2008.

    OK, I got that (again) off my chest.

    The car is apparently very well screwed together and the interior is nearly "audi-like." The exterior styling, although hardly daring (not that it needs to be), is a beautiful evolution of the first CTS.

    The wheelbase, power, fit and finish and overall content are fine (circa 2003 or 2004 technology and capability) -- and, as such, make for "the best Cadillac ever."

    But, is it enough? Folks will say, "it is (perhaps) well priced and a value compared to the 5 series BMW." That may be true. I just keep finding it difficult to imagine that the 5 series customer will say "for $12,000 less I can get a CTS."

    With the "fixes" noted above, I still say, sign me up.

    But, quicker than I can type this, Audi announces a new A4 that adds 6+ inches to the wheelbase, RWD biased AWD, better f/r weight distribution, torque vectoring quattro, a wider track (and interior, too), an interior right out of the A6/A5 mold and that German feel, not quite yet mastered by Cadillac (the new CTS with the FE2 suspension is "floaty" and somewhat vague compared with any thing from German -- uh, er, the AWD Passat, by comparison is PLANTED to the tarmac.)

    But, the Cadillac is sooooo pretty, the stitching on the dash looks sooooo expensive, the stereo system is "dandy."

    The voice response system is, gulp, great, up to Motorola's best, circa 1987.

    The OMG handles, a cheap fix.

    The gauze sunroof interior cover, probably not as cheap as I think it "ought to be."

    The keyless ignition should be changed or just plain not offered since it must cost a lot or they would not have done it that way.

    The foot pedal parking brake -- again, probably must be a lot more expensive than I could ever imagine, for this is just so totally out of place.

    And, last but most certainly not least, bluetooth is easy to do and inexpensive. These days would you buy a new laptop without WiFi? Why buy a car without bluetooth?

    OK, OK, OK, quit complaining, yes?

    Yep, fix these things or take about 15% off the MSRP and I would probably overlook most of them.

    Prediction: the price will not be cut, even if the deals do reflect aggressive discounting BUT these "problem areas" will be, mostly, corrected before the 2009's come out.

    Prediction: if not, the new CTS will over-promise and under-deliver and (regardless) do well but not anywhere near its potential.

    More's the pity.

    Oh yea -- despite my comments, I really do like this car much more than I dislike it, by far. :surprise:
  • hwiseleyhwiseley Member Posts: 2
    I just bought a 2008 CTS cadillac and absolutely love it. I took it to the touchless carwash today and guidebar for the tires seem to drag underneath the car. Has anybody else taken their car to the carwash yet? If so, was it a touchless or regular carwash? Did you notice any clearance issues?
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    They have updated CTS site on caddy.com.

    I dont see the big deal with bluetooth and would not base a car buying decision on that at all. It is offered with many other cars but typically only if you get navigation which means that many luxury cars do have bluetooth. I dont talk on the phone enough while driving to make it worthwhile. Besides, with BT headsets around I dont see why you need handsfree calling in your car too.

    It sounds like many of you are not going to get the car for a few reasons that I consider minor. Perhaps the CTS isnt for you.

    As for the keyless start, the CTS has the same type of system that Infinti and Acura use. I wouldnt say its outdated by any means. Just because it doesnt have a pushbutton doesnt mean its not advanced. Last time I checked the competition does not offer remote start with keyless go.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Many of my issues with the car have to do with a broader issue: marketing.

    Bluetooth and the sunroof will be, for many, deal breakers and that is my concern.
  • knotemknotem Member Posts: 62
    "It sounds like many of you are not going to get the car for a few reasons that I consider minor. Perhaps the CTS isnt for you."

    That unforgivable sunroof design is not a minor problem if it can’t block out 70% of the heat and the sun light when I don’t need them. It’s a major SHOW STOPPER in my opinion and many others on this board.

    Anybody cares to state his/her opinion has the right to speak up; if a person has to praise or criticize the car I’m thinking of buying, I would like to hear it loud and clear without getting offended, even if that criticism was exaggerated or wrong, because that critic is a real Cadillac fan, saying his/her honest opinion, not a paid Auto Writer.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    My SRX had to go back to the dealership this past monday...apparently somebody on my normal maintenance visit forgot to check the brakes. Oops.

    Well that got me more time in the CTS and I'm starting to notice a few things that I hadn't before on first blush.

    Handling. The car I test drove was a FE2 eqipped car, not the FE3. The FE3 only comes with the summer tires (not unlike my original 2003 CTS LuxSport). I'm reading some of the complaints of the FE2 car around here and I'm scratching my head in disbelief. Nobody I've seen in any of the automotove publications dislikes the FE2; in fact, it's seen as the "daily driver" suspension for most. "Floaty" is not an adjective I'd use to describe it. I think that's a misconception since the CTS's steering rack is lighter than the outgoing one by far. It's not floaty, just different...a bit on the light side. It was commented on in the very same automotive press, but it wasn't considered a problem. I heard more howls when BMW went to their active steering scheme, frankly.

    The Sunroof. OK, nobody else seems to be complaining about this in the auto press either except the people here. Look, if the sunroof isn't for you, then don't order it! If you feel it's enough of a deal killer, shop for something else. I wouldn't call it cheap at all. As I said before, the roll up screen has been used in the SRX for four years now. The bigger issue frankly is the perforated sunscreen which I think is a debatable issue. It's also not the only time an automaker has used such a screen (Land Rover comes to mind).

    Bluetooth. I agree completely here...it's a problem. I don't think it'll be a long lasting problem...most likely fixed through a mid-cycle upgrade knowing Cadillac. One thing I learned is that only in the last two years did GM move away from the computer language they had been using to program vehicles since the '80s (Modula-2) to using something more recent (C++). Since Bluetooth connectivity affects both the radio and Onstar (two seperate systems that have to communicate together), I could see a problem getting this right from a software standpoint. There's still no excuse for not making the product launch deadline, but I can understand why it might happen.

    Lack of front seat grab handles. Another inexplicable decision, but personally I think it was cost cutting. The grabhandles above the rear seats are the same, just in mirror. A front seat grabhandle would have to likely have a different shape since a sculptered resting place for it would have to integrate with the contours of the ceiling (there are lines that frame where the sunroof would be if you don't order the sunroof). This costs money and I think it got nixed for something else. I don't miss a driver's side handle so much since you often use the steering column for the same purpose.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    The interior styling. I'm getting a whole new level of respect for the interior design. I started looking at the details more closely and I discovered something that hasn't been discussed here. There is a central theme to the interior that it only referenced tangentely. On the seatbacks are a chrome chevron...the "V" used under Cadillac crests from 1946 until 1984. The version they are using is the superexaggerated late 1950's version.

    What you don't immediately notice is that the Caddy chevron is used as a central design theme everywhere through the dash. The central section of the dash is a big extruded chevron, right down to the central spline line. The chevron is used on the seat stitching, the cover for the cup holders and the center console and a few other places. Now I don't claim to know much about designing. But I do know that quality design often starts with a central design element that gets reused if possible. One major secondary theme is the shape of the Cadillac crest which is a variation of the extruded chevron. The steering wheel center uses the same basic shape as the Caddy crest inside it, but I notice that extruded chevron reappears below the center section on the steering wheel's "C" pillar.

    Bottom line is that I really respect how the CTS interior design team came to its final product. Nice work guys. If you compare this car to a STS (which my dealership had on the same floor), the STS seems like a proverbial "old maid" versus the CTS. Everything in the STS is boxy, upright and dreadfully boring in comparison. One major difference in the two cars...the top of the dashboard. The CTS uses a leatherette stitched down...the STS uses a hard piece of plastic like just about all other Caddys. The difference in refinement is obvious.

    Other observations. The battery is in the trunk behind a velcro attached panel on the right hand side. If you open the trunk, you'll notice the right side doesn't have as much room as the left side rearward from the tire. But you won't need to back the car up to the nose of another car to use jumper cables...there is a battery terminal labeled underneath the hood for that purpose.

    There is a passthru port from the trunk to the rear seat just like on the previous car. The spare tire is not standard but the space under the trunk floor is there is you order it. There is a canvas panel underneath the front seats that keeps crap from falling underneath the seats...a nice touch. Finally, the much maligned old CTS glovebox is a reasonable size.
  • mikemckenamikemckena Member Posts: 2
    Talked to the dealer yesterday about the bluetooh and at the moment it's a dealer installed option but does work through the car audio system. he is getting me some details for me today. He says something is mounted above the drivers sunvisor. i'll bet it's the microphone. i'll let you know when he gets me the info.

    Mike
  • rem506rem506 Member Posts: 13
    The keyless entry/ignition feature on the 2008 CTS is one of the nicer options and I have a hard time believing anyone could have any serious fault with it. Is the complaint that Caddy used a "switch" that you turn rather than a button that you push? It's the same natural and traditional motion we have all been executing for years without having to take the key out of your pocket and physically place it in the ignition.
    The key fob that accompanies the keyless entry/ignition is sleek looking and feels solid. I was very impressed. The remote start is an added bonus. This is a feature that should be put into the "positive" category.
  • sevenfeet0sevenfeet0 Member Posts: 486
    It is the microphone. If you sit in other Bluetooth enabled Cadillacs (like the Escalade), you'll notice the microphone just above your head to the left of the sun visor. At some point I would expect this to get integrated into the factory process. The dealer installed bit is probably so that early adopters wouldn't completely have a proverbial cow about no Bluetooth at all.
  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    #1366 of 1373 website by 1487 Sep 18, 2007 (5:55 pm)
    They have updated CTS site on caddy.com.

    I dont see the big deal with bluetooth and would not base a car buying decision on that at all. It is offered with many other cars but typically only if you get navigation which means that many luxury cars do have bluetooth. I dont talk on the phone enough while driving to make it worthwhile. Besides, with BT headsets around I dont see why you need handsfree calling in your car too.

    It sounds like many of you are not going to get the car for a few reasons that I consider minor. Perhaps the CTS isnt for you.

    As for the keyless start, the CTS has the same type of system that Infinti and Acura use. I wouldnt say its outdated by any means. Just because it doesnt have a pushbutton doesnt mean its not advanced. Last time I checked the competition does not offer remote start with keyless go.

    =====================================================

    This is the thing. I am not sure half the opposition to the car is well-informed. The press has just raved and raved over this car.

    "Cheap" sunroof? "Excess heat"?

    I have not read any indication that any of the people here have experienced the car's AC being unable to handle the "excess heat". It's just a wild extrapolation.

    This car may not be "the car of the ages", but it is a no-compromise car, as there are many features it has that the competition does not (as all "full" cars do when they are new).

    I agree.
    I highly doubt any assertion that "lack of Bluetooth" and a "cheap sunroof" (otherwise taken to be a marvel of panorama in every car it appears in--QX7, SRX) would negatively affect any serious attempt to buy this car.

    It could, cheaply, confer an "air of discrimination" though.
  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    #1367 of 1374 Re: website [1487] by markcincinnati Sep 18, 2007 (6:22 pm)
    Replying to: 1487 (Sep 18, 2007 5:55 pm)
    Many of my issues with the car have to do with a broader issue: marketing.

    Bluetooth and the sunroof will be, for many, deal breakers and that is my concern.

    =====================================================

    But you cannot purchase the car for "many". You can only purchase the car for you.

    The car will do at least as well as the old one, and possibly better (with variants); so we cannot tell what will be a "deal breaker".

    My feeling is that both are superfluous concerns.

    Bluetooth earpieces are ubiquitous and widely used, and that the sunroof is "cheap" is subjective (and probably a minority view). It certainly won't affect the car's sales numbers, since its sheer size is impressive.

    Let us pick this back up in a year and see how it fared.
  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    #1368 of 1375 Re: website [1487] by knotem Sep 18, 2007 (9:33 pm)
    Replying to: 1487 (Sep 18, 2007 5:55 pm)
    "It sounds like many of you are not going to get the car for a few reasons that I consider minor. Perhaps the CTS isnt for you."

    That unforgivable sunroof design is not a minor problem if it can’t block out 70% of the heat and the sun light when I don’t need them. It’s a major SHOW STOPPER in my opinion and many others on this board.

    Anybody cares to state his/her opinion has the right to speak up; if a person has to praise or criticize the car I’m thinking of buying, I would like to hear it loud and clear without getting offended, even if that criticism was exaggerated or wrong, because that critic is a real Cadillac fan, saying his/her honest opinion, not a paid Auto Writer.

    ========================================================

    Please point to multiple car reviews from magazines, online publications and new owners or people who have test-driven this car that point to the sunroof being a "SHOW STOPPER" (sic).

    Such a view is unique to a few posters on this forum and largely rhetorical. Can anyone refer me to any reviewers here who failed to overcome the "70%" heat problem with the AC? Did I miss the posts where people complained about the heat (on actual test drives)?

    Other than that, this is the first time I have ever heard anybody try to suggest that auto writers could be biased in favor of Cadillac (or GM).
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    Anyone finding the red ones in stock? The dealers near me have none (Dallas).
  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    #1372 of 1376 Keyless entry/ignition by rem506 Sep 19, 2007 (11:15 am)
    The keyless entry/ignition feature on the 2008 CTS is one of the nicer options and I have a hard time believing anyone could have any serious fault with it. Is the complaint that Caddy used a "switch" that you turn rather than a button that you push? It's the same natural and traditional motion we have all been executing for years without having to take the key out of your pocket and physically place it in the ignition.
    The key fob that accompanies the keyless entry/ignition is sleek looking and feels solid. I was very impressed. The remote start is an added bonus. This is a feature that should be put into the "positive" category.

    ============================================================

    It is a positive.

    It's way simpler than BMW's keyless ignition system--which Edmunds hated (as well as Car and Driver--and maybe even Motor Trend); and it's the same as the Acura RL's:

    image

    image

    Interestingly enough, Car and Driver complained that Acura's design drained the battery since it was easy to not turn it all the way to "Off"--

    "Complaints, yes, we got complaints. The ignition knob on the steering-wheel column seemed a dumb idea and left at least two editors stranded with a dead battery because they hadn’t turned the knob all the way off. In a car with a traditional ignition, they wouldn’t have been able to remove the key and kill the battery."

    http://www.caranddriver.com/longroadtests/10770/long-term-test-review-2005-acura- -rl-2005-acura-rl-rants-and-raves-page2.html

    So, three to four years later, we know Cadillac's system is better than that.

    Here is how it looks:

    image

    image

    Much of the criticism of the car on this board is unfair in the light of its competitors. This is quickly obvious when you look at the details.
  • readerreaderreaderreader Member Posts: 253
    It's too late for that, as some here don't seem to even care to know that.

    Here are some night shots:

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,498
    I started wondering if Rockylee had been reincarnated with a new screen name, but apparently not. He's still posting elsewhere these days, but doesn't want to participate here or in the Entry-Level board, now that there actually is an '08 CTS. Strange, given his previous history.

    I'd thought some of the recent cheerleading might have been him. Guess again.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
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