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2008 Cadillac CTS

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  • i know CTS has more hp but its weight waay bigger than TL.

    so question here

    is DI engine 306hp CTS faster than regular Acura TL or type S ?
  • Here're two more reviews to read:
    "By Kelsey Mays
    Cars.com
    September 4, 2007
    ....it does a poor job blocking out the sun and mitigating wind noise. A smaller, conventional moonroof is not available.”
    Just click on the moonshade photo
    http://research.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?aff=tucson&revid=52131&makeid=8&mod- elid=6128&year=2008&revlogtype=20&section=reviews.

    “By Frank Aukofer
    JSOnline
    September 12, 2007
    The shade for the sunroof is some sort of perforated translucent fabric, which does a poor job of blocking bright sunlight”
    http://research.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp;jsessionid=BFDZO2AICO45RLAYIEP4S0Y?- revid=52185&indcriteria=ASSET_TYPE-Affiliate+Review%2CBuying+Guide%2CVehicle+Pro- file%7CM-_8_%7CD-_6128_%7CY-_2008_%7CresultStructure-combined&revlogtype=19&make- id=8&modelid=6128&year=2008&myid=&revlogtype=19&section=reviews&mode=&aff=nation- al

    The majority of the complaints on this board are because of the sunshade that doesn’t block out the sun-light when it’s not needed. It also penetrates heat to the cabin when the car’s parked under the sun (a problem can be fixed sooner or later).
    This is not a MINI; it's a Cadillac for GOD SAKE!

    Besides the number of complaints on this board, here’re some more complaints about the sunshade in the Internet from unbiased Cadillac’s loyal customers:

    “by mathouth from San Jose, California (9/21/07)
    Pros: Great looking, good handling, very powerful and luxurious
    Cons: Ugly semi sunroof shade penetrates 50% of the sun.”

    “by bgmr from Brampton, ON (9/16/07)
    Pros: New, exciting look, great performance, handling
    Cons: Sun shade needs to be improved”

    “by brian from colma, california (8/30/07)
    Pros: the new instrument panel is much improved over the 07s much easier to use
    Cons: the sunroof shade is very cheap on the ulra view sunroof”
    http://autos.yahoo.com/cadillac_cts-reviews_user/

    Also:

    “by: pete paner Says:
    September 23rd, 2007 at 10:57 am
    I took the 08 CTS DI for a test drive; it didn’t take me long to really love it; the MSRP was a little over $47,000, but compare it to the MB E Class is a great bargain. Car critics called it “The best Cadillac in 50 Years” and I called it “the best Cadillac ever”.
    Unfortunately it has a cheap sunroof cover (with wind noise) which blocks only 50% of the sun when I don’t need it; what makes it worse is that you can’t configure the car with the Premium Luxury Package minus the sunroof, unless you’re willing to pay more for less, by not taking the Premium (bundling) package”

    “J.L. Says:
    September 9th, 2007 at 10:12 pm
    Well, I am glad to see a review that didn’t bash a GM product. I too hope the general public will forget what Cadillac has done in the 1970s to 1990s and just focus on this and if they must look at the pass, look at the time when Cadillac was a competitor of Rolls-Royce and Mercedes-Benz back in the 1920’s. Hopefully Cadillac will get up to more of that status, this is certainly a good start! keep it up Cadillac!”
    http://www.speedsportlife.com/2007/09/09/dubspeed-driven-first-drive-2008-cadill- ac-cts/#comment-41095

    The last one was my favorite subject about Cadillac in general; I too like to compare today's Cadillac to Mercedes and Rolls since I'm a Cadillac fan.

    You can't hunt "die-hard" Cadillac fan that has any criticism about the car he/she likes. I’ve waited a year for the 08 CTS and I can wait few more months, another year, or I may never buy the CTS; but I'm definitely not going away now.

    If anybody has a complaint about the 08 CTS and really cares to have GM people hear it; email it to:
    mcsfeedback gm.com
    I did, because I care about the brand.
  • They are equally fast.

    The question you may want to have answered has nothing to do with "fast." I suspect your question is the CTS quicker than the TL?

    Further, if that is, indeed, your real question, HP has less to do with it than torque and torque at what RPM.

    Weight is important -- that is not the question.

    Finally, even if the torque is low or high at "X" RPM, the final drive ratio can also have a significant effect on "quickness."

    And, if you were really to pick your nits, speed will be limited by HP if the final drive ratio is too short.

    The DI engine with the 6 speed automatic and the extra heft (even) of the AWD system certainly feels "spirited."

    Such a combo may not win any drag races of the official type -- but the CTS DI AWD 6 speed auto is VERY quick and is, undoubtedly, as fast or faster than a super majority of other cars on the road at any price point.

    What the heck, most of these ELLPS and LPS type cars are artificially speed limited. Therefore, there is a decent chance they're all "about" equally fast.

    Why would anyone care anyway? How often do we really even have the "real estate" to exceed 130MPH?

    Get a grip.

    :surprise:
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    markcincinnati - Why would anyone care anyway? How often do we really even have "real estate" to exceed 130MPG?

    Real-estate isn't the problem, there's lots of real-estate. Stamina is the real issue. It is very difficult to drive at triple digit speeds for a long period of time. Very, very taxing on the body and mind. Besides, American highways aren't made for it. Imagine hitting a pothole while traveling at greater than two miles per minute (130MPH) OUCH, OUCH, OUCH !!!

    thebug...
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    knotem - They got the order to work without the moonroof. The PDW option (price unknown) was the trick. My fix to the moonroof issue is not to get one in the first place. I'll bet that in the near future they will replace the shade with an opaque one of some type.

    thebug...
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    Does anyone know the price for the new PDW option group?

    thebug...
  • paopao Posts: 1,867
    not sure yet..the PDR performance collection was $3300 MSRP....so that might give you a baseline.....to go from..
  • puckspucks Posts: 47
    I'd rather have the "mesh" or fabric sunshade that is on the 08 CTS versus some others I've seen. Bad comparison, but the one on the impala reminds me of a piece of plywood. About 3/4 inch thick.

    I live in a 4 season climate and get 5 90 degree days a year - much rather have 50% light on most days that 0% or 100%.
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    pao - I going to guess 4.5K-5.5K because both options included in the PDR @ $3300, taken as individual options, they total $3940, which is $640 more. Adding Y40 @ $850 & Y41 @ $2050 brings it to $6815 as separate options. Using the same percentage ratio that they used on the Premium Lux Package which is 30% less than purchasing them as separate items (assuming they will), it falls between the above said price.

    I just hope that they reveal the price (on line) before my order comes in, and the price negotiations begin. Otherwise without published prices, they can pretty much tell me anything. It will be interesting to see how they break it down.

    thebug...
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    pucks - As always, some people will like the shade as it is, just as you do. I think they should offer an option of two screen types, the current and a solid cover. Maybe they will as the MY progresses.

    thebug...
  • paopao Posts: 1,867
    look at the invoice price as well...believe for the PDR its around $2700 so about $500 off the MSRP price....Im waiting to see the package now as well.....would be a good combination...found out through my buying service offered by my bank....and talking with my local dealer..I can get the car for $950 over invoice..regardless of options and that includes destination fee......probably the best deal around at the moment if you dont have a GM card or other related discount
  • thebug - This is how to figure out the invoice price on the 08 CTS from the MSRP (sticker) price:

    Take off 6.5% from the MSRP (vehicle only without options)
    Take off 17% from Total MSRP options
    Add $745 Dealer Freight Charge = Total Invoice Price
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    "I think the CTS is an improved vehicle, and it wasn't that bad to begin with, assuming you're willing to go along with how it looks. It exists now, and the comparisons, done by actual people who have driven it and measured it in a number of ways, vs. a number of other cars, have begun. The "talk is cheap" phase of this whole exercise is over. "

    have you been reading the reviews? based on your commentary I would assume not. You have beef with someone who said the vehicle would be VERY competitive and it is according to what I am reading. Can you explain how the vehicle was inproperly hyped up? It seems to me you werent a fan to begin with and now you are proclaiming the car a disappointment although the media doesnt seem to agree.

    What we have here is a small group of disgruntled people who are in agreement that some minor issues overshadow the good things about this car. There is no consensus that the car is a dud as you seem to be inferring. The car as far as I can tell is delivering what was promised with a few minor drawbacks. If you have some type of evidence to show that the car has been underwhelming besides the opinions of 3 guys in this forum let me know.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    The car as far as I can tell is delivering what was promised with a few minor drawbacks.

    Bingo!!

    Couldn't say it better myself.

    I am ready to crown CTS as the "standard of the segment" interior wise.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I did read the cars.com review before but forgot he noted the complaint. The other reviews I read did not note the complaint. I dont have a problem with light from the sun entering the car as long as the direct glare of the sun isnt in my eye when driving. If the shade can accomplish that I could live with it. I'm sure the light factor is the reason why they have designed such a shade.

    This doesnt seem to be a deal breaker for most who have driven the car. Edmunds is probably getting a long term car so perhaps they will note this issue during the test period. We know they are experts at finding fault in domestic vehicles.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    For the sunroof. What troubles me is not just that it couldn't cover the sunlight 100% but it's also that it looks cheap and the most important, it feels cheap. I'll tolerate this kind of design in a Scion tC but definitely not in a $40K+ luxury sedan. Cadillac should come up with a solution before more buyers are driven away due to this issue.

    Other than that it's a solid effort from Cadillac.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,244
    Yes, I've read (& certainly heard about) the reviews.

    The car is good, but it's not the second coming. Another GM fanboy made a big splash in all the CTS-related boards with "what was coming" a year or so ago. He's no longer to be heard from. Why? He still posts here. My post was directed at him & those like him. Talking up a car that doesn't exist is an easier chore than defending one that does.

    The people I want to hear from are those who have posted on these boards for years (and there are several) who drive this class of car. You have an excellent advocate in Sevenfeet, and several other regulars have said complimentary things about the CTS. Others haven't. This is useful input to me.

    The car rags praise anything to the sky that they think might result in increased ad revenue. They all thought the Infiniti M walked on water, but the market over the past few years tends to say otherwise.

    It'll be instructive to see how the CTS does in the market. I think quite well, since there's a huge "buy American" group out there, and the car appears to be at least OK. Heavy & (overly, IMHO) flashy, but OK.
  • Note that PDR is not included in PDW. PDR is just a prerequisite for PDW. Options included in PDW are Y41 and Y40 which sum up to $3025 if ordered separately before Y41 became unavailable as a stand-alone collection, or $2875 when ordered with PDR. I believe the last figure is the closest prediction therefore.
  • As the saying goes "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". What is flashy to you may be 'impressive' to someone else.

    As to the car rags, I think that what is important to the magazine car jockey's is not what is important to the average car buyer. Most want an automatic transmission, not a manual. Most are not looking for sub 6 second 0-60 mph. Most car buyers are not writing to this forum.
  • I never thought I'd be considered to be an "advocate" but I guess I've posted here enough to earn that title (for better or worse...you often end up coming off as a paid schill to some).

    I've never tried to hide my own motivations. I do want Cadillac and GM to succeed and I've had more than a passing interest in the brand, having owned four Caddies in the last 20 years. It probably began with my family who owned them when I was a kid. My cousin's family drove Mercedes since the '60s. What does he drive? An E-class.

    Frankly, I was looking to not buy another one in '03 when the CTS came along. It looked different than everything else, drove like no Caddy I'd ever owned, and I could afford one. Turns out it was the best car I ever owned (a sentiment shared by my wife). We traded it for an SRX when we got kids....very sorry to see that car go.

    So when the '08 CTS finally came to market, was I interested? You bet. Is it the only thing out there competing for my hard earned dollar? Nope. The number of vehicles in this space are growing and the quality of them have skyrocketed in the last several years. Because of my size, I have different needs than most of the rest of you, so I don't expect any of you to use the exact same criteria I use to buy a car.

    My short list these days are still the '08 CTS, the Infiniti M35 and the Acura RL. Why? I fit in them! The BMW 535i, Mercedes E350 and others just don't work for me. I wish they did but they don't. Not everyone makes things for the last 1/2 or 1% of the population in terms of height (nor do I expect them to).

    The CTS interests me because I had a good experience with the last one. I agree, the car is a bit flashy, but so have most Cadillacs over the last 80 years...no big change there. I agree it's too heavy...hopefully something can be done about that over time. And I probably would have not brought a perforated sunscreen to market (although it's hardly the dealkiller in my book...I rarely closed the screen on my old CTS). I don't agree that the screen is "cheap". It's the solution to an engineering problem when you make a sunroof that big. Somehow I would suspect that screen (and the roller and motor assembly) cost a lot more than a plastic (or cardboard) sunscreen covered with the roof liner found in most vehicles.

    It's a nice car...and I agree, best Caddy since the '50's (with the possible exception of the '67 Eldorado). Is it all things to all buyers? No product is. But I think it's more than good enough to find an audience.
  • GM officially announced that they'll build coupe and wagon:
    "-- Lansing/Grand River: Cadillac CTS, STS and SRX through 2009; Cadillac CTS wagon and CTS coupe in 2009; Two new rear-wheel-drive large cars in 2011."

    http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8RUMI3G1.htm
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,539
    Wonder if the CTS wagon replaces the slow-selling SRX?
  • thebugthebug Posts: 294
    avatards - I have already included the price of Y40 at $850 and Y41 at $2025 in my total cost. My question is as a package has the price changed? Generally, if grouped in a package the price is a little (in some cases a lot) less. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the two included items in PDR, Y42 and Y44 alone are more than the total of PDR. So it would be my guess (and hope) that the PDW is a little less than it would be as separate options.

    thebug...
  • Although I don’t agree 100% with all its contents, but it’s the most unbiased review I’ve read so far, for a change, that cover the car from head to toes, and it doesn’t literary repeat what Cadillac was saying about the 08 CTS during the 07 NAIAS.

    http://www.epinions.com/content_404023316100
  • This car was reviewed by the Washington Post in todays Sunday paper. They loved the car. Had NO bad things to say about it.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    must be the ad dollars at work. Why else would they praise this mediocre car? Oh wait, they probably just want you to buy American.
  • puckspucks Posts: 47
    I think quite well, since there's a huge "buy American" group out there.

    Huh? Where exactly is this buy american group? China? Certainly not here in the states. If you've been watching GM's (or the big 3 in total)market share drop year after year, how do you come to that conclusion? The only people who but american nowadays are rental car companies. The average consumer buys anything BUT american.
  • bryanbryan Posts: 217
    I read that review by Warren Brown. I have a lot of respect for his reviews; he's usually spot on. He does seem to try to find some positive in his vehicle reviews. I purchased my '96 Olds LSS based on his glowing review, and he was exactly right--most enjoyable, trouble free car I had owned until that time. I will definitely consider the new CTS when I start shopping next spring for my next vehicle.

    I also thought his article on the next page about Unions was accurate too.
  • ggurr54ggurr54 Posts: 30
    orang bodoh ini.
  • vic10vic10 Posts: 188
    For those who are currently driving one, how many have struck pavement or curves with the front air-dam/bumper? Ground clearance looked to be very minimum. I'd probably have to back into my driveway....
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