2008 Cadillac CTS

thebug · January 2007

Hey, that's cool. Thanks. Are they planning sells of this in the US? If so, when?

thebug...

rockylee · January 2007

If we see the BLS here in the U.S. it won't be before 2009 pal. I do believe once BMW brings their 1-series over here Cadillac will most definetly bring out the BLS and that's based on the limited material I've read on the net on this and other sites.

Rocky

1487 · January 2007

If the BLS comes here, and I think it will, it will be on the next generation FWD platform with the 9-3 and other cars. I think the CTS is large enough to allow Cadillac to have a smaller TSX like model with FWD/AWD. If it started at $28k it may not be a bad idea.

1487 · January 2007

I dont even know that I would call it cheap, it's just not better than the CTS interior. The C class interior reminds me of the Passat for some reason. It could use some more upscale touches to justify its astronomical price. I cant believe they are actually going to bump the price up another 5% when the current car is already one of the priciest in the class. Why not try to pick up some marketshare with some aggressive pricing? Another thing, according to autoweek, the 3.5L engine cannot be had with a manual tranny. In terms of acceleration this isnt a big deal because of the 7 speed, but magazines aren't going to like this. The IS does the same thing though.

Based on what I've seen I would take the CTS over the C350, especially if the Caddy is much cheaper.

texases · January 2007

Unless there's been a major upsize to the C350, it's quite a bit smaller, right? That's always been the C class problem for me, same or more than CTS/G35 $$, smaller than Jetta size...

chavis10 · January 2007

It's definitely leaps and bounds above the old car which was not even competitive. I think it has one of the best looking interiors to ever come out of germany (Audi's included) and is WAY better looking than the 3's interior scheme.

It seems to offer lots of high tech toys which is good as well as a hard drive for music. Merc1 should be pleased that it even offer electronic auto damping. The only thing about Benz and BMW is that you've got to pay the price to get such features. I'm not sure it'll be worth the extra scratch over the CTS.

louiswei · January 2007

I am expecting $60K for a top-of-the-line-super-duper-loaded C350...

What has the world come to? :sick:

1487 · January 2007

I dont know if they will take it that far, I would guess between $50k - $55k and I would expect a loaded CTS to be well under $50k. We all know BMW and MB are famous for not offering the good stuff standard. For some, the 3 pointed star will be worth the extra thousands but I will take the CTS and its superior engine, interior and size. Even someone posting on the extremely anti-GM Leftlanenews site had to admit he liked the CTS better.

rockylee · January 2007

Well If I was GM, I'd make sure the BLS only came with AWD because they said they only wanted RWD cars for Cadillac, Buick, Pontiac, over the next couple of years. I still think it's unlikely the BLS will come to our market because IMHO the only way I think it would be successful is a RWD/AWD variant.

Rocky

albook · January 2007

Everyone agrees, once you pay 50k plus for a sedan, you want A LOT better than plain. Hands down. Other wise, they wouldn't go for the Luxury.
Oh, and the CTS does compete with the 3. YOu guys know every thing American is bigger than foriegn cars. And getting bigger. The Impala is larger than the Camry, for example. The malibu was the same size, but is now also bigger than the Camcord. Just the way it is. The even larger STS competes with the 5/E. The BLS was made off Saab platform for Europe only.

explorerx4 · January 2007

hey, don't be too tough on me. it seems like i am not the only one who likes this car! i think it is a great blend of modern and traditional cadillac, which is a great thing.

pearl · January 2007

after the launch at the NAIAS, virtually nil heard on the CTS. Caddy ought to just bite it on the 07 CTS and move at warp speed to get the 08 out. "Fall" is too late. Lots of folks will buy other cars by then and just won't wait, even if they like what they saw. Caddy needs this car NOW. While they obviously cannot start them off the line now, they need to move as fast as possible to put the 07 to bed and start 08 production.

readerreader · January 2007

No rush required. This car will sell even better than the old one.

readerreader · January 2007

1487 · January 2007

In several articles I read that the car would be on sale in late summer. I am thinking July or August of this year. I think "Fall 2007" is a conservative estimate.

texases · January 2007

Any info on $$?

jimbres · January 2007

Rushing a new design into production is a recipe for disaster, particularly when the target market segment -- educated, upper-middle & upper class professionals & entrepeneurs -- is notoriously intolerant of even minor trim flaws.

sammc123 · January 2007

Finally! I Cadillac interior that is actually interesting and sophisticated. I'm sorry but Cadillac interiors haven't been anything for quite some time. Too much hard, cheap plastics, poor built quiality, very uninspired desings...I could go on and on. Check out the interior of a 2000 Deville, it's horrible. My friend has a 2005 CTS and the interior is HORRIBLE, very cheap, it's just plain bad. This CTS interior is another story. The exterior is kinda 'eh' though, I was expecting a more cohesive design. One thing that really gets me...the nose drops off very sharply in the front and just doesn't look good from the side. Is this because of European pedestrian laws?

rockylee · January 2007

Okay.....

Rocky

rockylee · January 2007

I'd only expect a $1-2K price hike. I think a top trim CTS won't run you over $45K IMHO.

Rocky

thebug · January 2007

After that review, I know you didn't buy one, at least I hope you didn't. In any case each to his own.

thebug...

thebug · January 2007

I was in the same ballpark, 43-45K with a few bells and whistles.

thebug...

rockylee · January 2007

thebug,

Yeah it shouldn't go up much at all. GM, wants to be competitive with the IS350, and BMW 335i in price. The plant where the CTS is built is among the best for efficiency so labor hours per vehical is very low because of the very flexible work rules at the Lansing Mi. plant and parts suppliers also have learned to cut costs while keeping quality high.

Rocky

1487 · January 2007

This is not the first nice CAdillac interiro in decades and you assert. Check out the DTS, STS-V, Escalade and '07 SRX interiors. They are definitely on par with the competition.

rockylee · January 2007

1487, yeah he needs to do some checking out. Even the current STS, isn't all that awful.

Rocky

sammc123 · January 2007

The DTS interior is ALRIGHT, has OK materials and an uninpired design. The STS has a genuinely boring interior with mediocre materials, the Elscalade is generally good, but again, everything it is design has been seen before. The interiors are fine, on their own they look fine but I am talking compared to the competition they are seriously lacking in ingenuity and for the most part materials.

"Isn't all that awful" doesn't mean 'good.'

readerreader · January 2007

Finally! I Cadillac interior that is actually interesting and sophisticated. I'm sorry but Cadillac interiors haven't been anything for quite some time. Too much hard, cheap plastics, poor built quiality, very uninspired desings...I could go on and on. Check out the interior of a 2000 Deville, it's horrible. My friend has a 2005 CTS and the interior is HORRIBLE, very cheap, it's just plain bad. This CTS interior is another story. The exterior is kinda 'eh' though, I was expecting a more cohesive design. One thing that really gets me...the nose drops off very sharply in the front and just doesn't look good from the side. Is this because of European pedestrian laws?
------------------

Cadillac's interior plastics were never hard or cheap--particularly in the current CTS. They only appeared that way.
That was their major issue to deal with.
That was a design issue that was first addressed on the SRX and Escalade.
I don't know where you get the "poor build quality" from either. It was a high-quality, very well built, ugly design.

The front is controlled by "pedestrian safety" (read: Government meddling/nannying) laws in Europe. You are correct about that.

Here is the nose from the side:

I personally like it a lot.

thebug · January 2007

sammc: For the current CTS, the entire design turned out to be love it, or hate it in nature, and by all accounts, the vehicle sold very well, so many did in fact like the design.

I have an 03 CTS, and as I have mentioned in another post, this is the only car that I've owned that has not had one squeak or rattle in the four years that I've owned it. It has only been on the rack for oil changes. That says a lot about build quality. You've missed out my friend.

About the interior design itself, that was a major selling point on my part, but I guess it all depends on what you are looking for, and or need it to be and do.

As far as the competitors, in reading the owner reviews (suggested improvements), I can clearly see that they are not as happy with their interiors as the Edmunds reviewers say they should be.

As you may well know (or not), word of mouth is the best source of advertisement. That being said, the owner reviews tell a much different story from that of those so called professional reviewers who simply do a one or two day test drive, and then offer up their opinions.

Like the movie critics (who in my view) are sometimes wrong, those providing opinions on autos, fall in the same category. This is confirmed by the reviews provided by those who actually own and drive the vehicle on a regular basis.

thebug...

1487 · January 2007

YOu are way off base. Compare the Esclade interior to the Navigator or GL450. It can hold its own and then some and I think you should name what competitors outclass it. You didnt comment on the new SRX interior but its just as good as the ML350 or RX350, even one of Edmunds editors said as much in regards to their long test vehicle. The STS-V has hand cut and sewn leather on its dash and door panels, it is extremely nice and is no worse than the E class or 5 series. The DTS interior could easily pass in a Lexus. It is very nice in materials and design. The new platinum series interior is even better.

albook · January 2007

CTS won't run you over $45K IMHO.

You seem to be forgeting one important factor, my friend- the V-factor!!!

And you should know that'll drive you north of 50 large!

sammc123 · January 2007

You're so extremely biased. I will say that 'hand-cut' leather on the dash does not make the design any more inspired. The DTS interior could pass as a VW Rabbit interior with poorer material quality. Up until its recent interior re-do the DTS/Deville shared it's buttons and switch gear with the rest of the GM lineup including the Chevy Cavalier. Quality indeed.

And when it comes to quality and interior sophistication I am talking things down to bottons and how they work and feel. The buttons on my friend's CTS (he is a very good friend, I sit in the car more than I like to) are made from HARD, CHEAP plastic. Even the font on them is what I call 'hokey' and looks very down-market. The dash is covered in a rubbery plastic, this is NOT the same as soft-touch plastic. There are countless plastic moldings on the interior with the molding process fringe still on them. There are gaps all over the place. The doors and switches feel hallow. The car comes with an embarrassingly cheap key etc...it's the details. From a design and materials standpoint the interior of that car is VERY unsophisticated. I don't doubt the car doesn't have squeaks and rattles but you know what?...neither does my Aunt's Ford Focus.

Sit in an Audi and you will understand the difference. it's fundamental. Heck sit in a Toyota for that matter, it's miles better as well. Those companies pay attention to everything. The materials used on the bottom door plastic on my friends A4 is of HIGHER quality than that on the actual front dash of the current CTS.

These Cadillac sell for less for a reason.

readerreader · January 2007

Which Cadillacs "sell less"?

The Escalade sells a whopping 62,000 per year--by miles and miles the best sales in its class.

The CTS jumped 100% in the second year and stayed there throughout its entire run--unheard of for any car.

The DTS is Cadillac's best-selling car, period.

Nobody argues that the interior design of the CTS was good--although it sold exceptionally well despite that.
What I take exception to is your hyperbole.

Everything you described in your answer is subjective.
"Down-market" font?
What is that?
"Hard and cheap buttons"?
All buttons are hard. Cheap ones are rubbery.
"Rubbery" plastic?
And just about any dashboard is inferior to an Audi A4.

The materials in the CTS are expensive and first rate. The execution is poor.

In any case, it's all moot, because despite that, people are buying it in droves, and even more will buy the 2008 model.

And nobody would say the new Camry, Tundra and RAV-4 interiors were "miles better" at all.
The long-term Editors at Edmunds have been complaining about the interiors of those Toyota models for weeks now (not to mention the FJ Cruiser interior).

Lessen the hyperbole. Nobody needs to be told what the CTS's problems are. They have been pointed out over and over and over again since 2003. It's still a very good car nonetheless, and this new one should be even better.

thebug · January 2007

Sit in an Audi and you will understand the difference.

sammc123: I took your advise, and went and sat in an Audi A6. Didn't do it for me. For some reason, I didn't get as inspired as you did when you sat in one. Don't know what it is.

I couldn't help but notice that it did have plastic parts though, and it was hard plastic, and it didn't look cheap. You were right. I think you should buy an Audi A6.

thebug...

chavis10 · January 2007

Couldn't have said that better myself.

Also, please tell me what buttons or controls in a Deville/DTS were shared with a Cavalier? A wiper stalk maybe? Check a Corolla/Camry and a Lexus and u'll probably find the same thing.

thebug · January 2007

rocky: I set my budget for $44,117.96, TTL, OTD. That's with all the options except the sunroof. May be a little over. That being said, I think I'm within 1K give or take.

thebug...

chavis10 · January 2007

PS- The A4 has the most out-of-date boring plain jane interior in the ENTIRE class. The Nav system is stuck way downlow in the radio section with a terrible interface on the right side of the faceplate and whole cockpit follows the same theme as the last generation A4 that came out in '95 or so. Other than the IS, I can't think of any other entry level luxury sedans on sale that have a sophisticated or advanced looking design. C Class? Nope. 3 series? As basic is they come (same as the A4). G35? maybe but I heard it's better in photos than in real life.

rockylee · January 2007

albook,

I know about the "V" factor but I wasn't talking about that. I look at the "V" as like a whole other car.

IMHO a fully loaded CTS shouldn't cost over $45K give or take a grand. The CTS-V I expect to be around $55K give or take a grand.

Rocky

rockylee · January 2007

readerreader,

I couldn't agree with your post more.

Rocky

rockylee · January 2007

Well I don't think you will pay even that for it if you are savy enough and willing to cross shop dealers in a 500 miles rdaius.

thebug, you should be able to at least get $1500 off. If I bought a 08' CTS I would really have a leg up on everyone with my GM discount.

Rocky

thebug · January 2007

rocky: That's my cash reserve going in. You can bet I plan to deal with them. I got 4k knocked of the 03 CTS purchase during negotiations. This time I'm going in with a trade. That makes the dealing a little more aggressive (that's the fun part) and I can work it. I've been practicing at dealers where I have no plan to purchase. That process gives you a leg up on the latest sales BS (bologna sausage).

thebug...

rockylee · January 2007

Okay.......Do your homework and get a sound price and walk in their and stick to your guns. It's better to walk than be hosed. I guess I shouldn't worry as you've bought so many cars in your lifetime.

Rocky

louiswei · January 2007

G35? maybe but I heard it's better in photos than in real life.

Sort of, but the washi aluminum trim is really elegent though. Hopefully the new CTS won't have one of those "better looking in photos than real life" interiors.

Agree with you on A4, C and 3-series. I think besides IS, TL's interior is a looker too.

1487 · January 2007

So instead of talking about current Cadillacs you are talking about previous generations. Sounds a little shady to me. The old DTS interior was nice when it came out in 1999 but wasnt up to par at the end of its lifecycle. I was actually talking about the current DTS interior and I have not read anything negative about it in terms of materials or design. It is far beyond anything you will find in a Toyota and is comparable to the the ES and GS interiors at lexus although they have more complex gauges.

You continue to talk about the CTS without mentioning other current Cadillacs. I found nothing cheap about the feel or the operation of the CTS interior but thats just me. Even if we agree the CTS interior is lacking, that doesnt mean the same applies to the SRX, DTS and Escalade interiors. I find all three to be very elegant. I'm sure that's just my bias speaking though. I cant be that the interiors are actually nice.

I do have to wonder why you are patrolling this thread instead of making a trip to your Audi dealership. The A4 is well built but it's interior is dated and very monochromatic. It's Nav screen is tiny and the overall design isnt all that much different from the previous generation. I find Lexus, Acura and CAdillac interiors to be far more warm and inviting.

piason · January 2007

sammc123

My father has a 2003 DTS and the interior is very nice along with the rest of the car. :mad:

You have no idea what you are talking about!

chavis10 · January 2007

You're right... forgot about the TL. I definitely like that interior layout.

legacys7 · January 2007

what the M series is to BMW. BMW have a M version of their luxury car.

Lexus is in the midst of doing the samething. It's called the F series that is going to compete with the M and AMG series.
It'll also have to compete with the V series too.

legacys7 · January 2007

Ok, we got your point, but we, well at least I do, see that you are jumping the gun on the 2008 CTS version. Did you sit down inside of the car? Did you play with those knobs and dials? Or did you just judge the new model from a distance?

I see many of these forums and see a repeatitve pattern. Don't get me wrong here, there is some merit in your post regarding what GM does. But even when GM does it right, there will be others who have a ego problem and want to put their car above heads and shoulders, even if they know that the other car is better.

I've been inside of a BMW 755li and The top of the line Sedan Benze. My relatives have them. Yeah, these cars are nice insde and out and I also realized over the years that GM needs to get it's act together and stop taking short cuts on things. But after seeing this new 2008 CTS, imo, the inside looks better and rivals the two that I have posted above^.

GM have the ability to be the best. Hell, they have the money to do this.

ckirk3 · January 2007

Has anyone seen any information on the fuel estimates for the 2008 CTS?

thebug · January 2007

newcartest.com is showing a price range of 30-45K, but I think we all knew it would be somewhere in that range. I'd like to see the price breakdown of the option groups.

thebug...

pearl · January 2007

expect at least one more mpg on the highway side due to the six speed auto. Guess would be something like 19/28 for the base 3.6L and 18/27 for the direct injection 3.6 high performance engine. The heat is on all automakers to improve gas mileage, so don't be too surprised if performance starts to take some hits here and there over the coming years as they try to get a "cheap" extra mpg by lower rear axle ratios, etc.

2008 Cadillac CTS

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