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2008 Cadillac CTS

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Comments

  • cowbellcowbell Posts: 125
    "If everyone bought and held onto his car (and other stuff) like you suggest, the car business would all but die, and the whole economy collapse with it. "

    This is a very true statement. People wouldn't be burning their money in the backyard because people wouldn't have any. This is because no one would buy the products or services they are making.

    Modern economies are based on destruction. Did you ever see the movie, The 5th Element? There's a scene where someone breaks a glass on the floor, and the broken glass is immeadiately swept up by many little robots. And then speaking of the robots cleaning up the mess: "Now, think about all those people that created them. Technicians, engineers, hundreds of people who'll be able to feed their children tonight so those children can grow up big and strong and have little teeny weeny children of their own, and so on and so forth. Thus, adding to the great chain... of life"

    Imagine what our economy would be if cars and buildings and TVs and computers and clothes lasted forever.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,071
    "IF" cars were like airplanes, i.e., kept "in service" updated and maintained (for the most part) "like new" and outfitted with new avionics, engines, seats, toilets and wires and stuff -- I suspect the economy would be just fine as wine, for there would be a shift from "bic" car purchases to maintenance and refurbishing. New cars would still be required due to other forms of destruction.

    I see no harm in keeping your car 10 years. The fact that the cars technology, features, functions, performance, economy, fun factor and economy changes is just something I hate to pass up.

    I see no harm in that approach either.

    Now, therefore, notwithstanding, the 5th Element quote is, in spirit, dead-on accurate. In spirit. Keeping everything until it is "used up, worn out, etc" is unlikely to happen, but if it does it will likely be accompanied with other paradigm shifts.

    Capitalism may ultimately prevail or die by virtue of being replaced with something else. I have, little confidence in the destruction of Capitalism any time soon (or within my lifetime.)

    If I get this new CTS, I'll almost immediately start lusting for its replacement, unless the entire auto industry retards its R&D efforts and keeps producing new cars that aren't changing or don't evolve. Not likely to happen as far as I can tell.
  • bingomanbingoman Posts: 373
    If everyone kept their vehicles for its full lifetime there would be a small market for new vehicles. One of the functions of first owners replacing their vehicles well before they disintegrate is to provide those vehicles to the lower classes who cannot afford the cost of a new vehicle. This is one way in which capitalism redistributes wealth. Therefore, do your part for capitalism and trade in your vehicles early.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    My job isn't to provide welfare for anyone. I already give enough in taxes, fees, and so on, as it is.

    I'll keep my wealth to redistribute to other parts of our economy. Afterall, it's not like Americans are saving much money ;)
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,071
    A new Cadillac every 3-4 years in every garage!

    Every man a king, every man a king and you can be a millionaire. . .

    A few years ago, cars changed much more slowly -- other than style -- than they do these days. Perhaps cars will be made to be able to be updated, outfitted with newer technology, THEN those of us who want the new features, functions, performance, safety, economy, fun, etc, can keep the 2012 CTS for 10 years but not have to forego the new features that "revolutionalize" mileage and cornering in the 2014 MY. Instead of paying for the whole car, simply replace the engine management computer and the front and rear suspension modules (at a relative fraction of the cost.)

    Those who want to keep the features of the 2012 model can do so, those who want the features of the 2014 model can acquire them and those who can afford or simply want the 2014 model can elect that option.

    Of course, who knows, maybe there will be brand new bolt on fenders and all the other exterior (and interior) parts that can be replaced, essentially making it possible to buy a CTS sedan in year one, then in year three (after you have replaced the suspension, electronics and guidance system), you could replace the exoskeleton with the pieces that make up the then current SRX, etc. And when you do that, you can also decide to use the new infinite speed hyper transmission unit, etc.

    Still, unless mandated by the safety police, you could keep your car "as it was the day you bought it" until it completely wore out. And, even then, you would not have to acquire a new car, you could just update the car to a newer (not even the newest) generation.

    Fundamentally, we have some folks who don't place an economic value on a new(er) car high enough to buy/rent one every three years, opting instead to keep the car perhaps 10 years. Then we have other folks who see a higher economic value in replacing their cars regularly and somewhat frequently (every 36 months or 50,000 miles, for instance.)

    Since no one legislates (yet) that we must keep our cars at a certain level of "service pack," these two "extremes" can co-exist quite well.

    I wonder where telecommunications would be if people kept their cell phones for 10 years, rather than 10 months though? Or, like cars, would there be people who would still be using their "brick sized, 2 pound cell phones," side by side folks using their "credit car sized, 2 ounce cell phones?"

    Does demand drive new features, functions, performance, economy, safety? Or does supply "compel" (some folks like me) to replace a "functioning as designed and built" 2005 car with a 2008?

    Would the retaining (rather than replacement) of a "perfect" 2005 car reduce innovation, improvements in economy, safety, performance, features, functions (the supposed benefits?) Or does invention and innovation induce one to replace an otherwise OK 2005 with the 2008?

    If the 2008 ABC was without improvements over the 2005, and the 2005 required somewhat to a lot lower costs than replacing it with the 2008, I, for one, would have little reason to let loose of the 2005. The fact that the 2008 (presumably) will offer "new" and "better" technology is (for some of us, me, for one) worth the opportunity cost of the replacement of a perfect 2005 with the '08.

    There is a phrase on a plaque on one of my client's walls:

    "Use it up"

    "Wear it out"

    "Make it do"

    "Do without."

    Funny thing, he is of German heritage and always drives a new BMW 7 series.

    Takes all kinds.

    Sure hope the CTS lives up to "our" ever escalating expectations. :shades:
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Then we have other folks who see a higher economic value in replacing their cars regularly and somewhat frequently (every 36 months or 50,000 miles, for instance.)
    ****
    Except... this isn't good economic sense. It is good emotionally and makes you feel happier, sure. But the reality is that human reflexes and muscles virtually are the same now as they were 10,20,or even a thousand years ago. Me - if I had the money, I'd buy a Lotus Exige and keep it for 20 or 30 years. Because even if I gave it to my son in 20 years, it would still be more than he'd ever require or need get get around in. The same goes for, say, a 911. Sure, the 1980 model isn't as fast or as agile as the newest one, but was and still is more capable than 99% of drivers will ever require.

    I find it entertaining that people feel the need to replace their cars after 3-5 years as if they have evolved or need that much better of a car. I guess it's their right, but me... I wonder exactly what's the dirfference between my 20 year old 4Runner(current beater-commuter box) and a guy in his 3 series when we're both in 30mph traffic on the way to work. A/C - check. MP3 player(Kenwood stereo) - check. manula transmission - check. stuck in traffic only needing 35-40hp... check.

    Now, if I was like my cousin and actually did road-racing on the weekends, I might need a new car every three years...
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,071
    To each his or her own.

    In this case, economic sense is exactly what it is. For some it is good, for other it isn't.

    Worth is sometimes based on hard cold facts. Sometimes worth is determined by "the market."

    Last year some houses were worth $X, this year they are worth 95% of $X. Some of these houses are new, never been lived in. Some of them, last year (or the year before) were being sold in days or weeks for the asking price.

    The house today is worth less because of demand, in part.

    For some folks, worth is "what they'd pay" to have it. Clearly some folks think it is worth more than others to have a young car. It doesn't make one possess more or less economic sense.

    Nor does it make the other one have more or less economic sense -- it is worth less to YOU it is not worth less to some other people.

    Some people would not pay $100,000 for a Porsche or the new Audi R8. Certainly there will be folks who will pay over sticker and never feel they were making an economic decision that was "bad."

    We need "things" to be valued differently by different people.

    Variety is the spice. . .

    And, Cadillac, life, liberty and the pursuit. . .

    Ahhhh platitudes.
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    the threads meander in sometimes meaningless directions. :confuse:
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,837
    Yes, and it's might confusing/disconcerting to members who are new to this discussion - they drop in because in reading the discussion title, they figure they'll peruse the info available on the CTS.

    Let's try to meet those expectations, OK? Auto News is a great place for non-model specific conversation.

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  • ral1960ral1960 Posts: 74
    We've certainly gone off on a tangent, but not a meaningless one.

    I was looking at a current model CTS today and realized that the 08 model seems to have a much higher deck lid, but still has the same (inadequate) trunk space. I'm afraid I'll miss the nice creases on the trunk, which seem to be all but gone on the new model.

    While I expect a coupe model will be a fastback, I would prefer something more like the 79-85 Eldorado. A crisp notchback coupe would be unique among new cars.
  • bingomanbingoman Posts: 373
    If the rear deck lid is higher why do you believe that the trunk space is not greater than on the '03-'07 model?
  • ral1960ral1960 Posts: 74
    I'm pretty sure 13.8 cu ft was in the press release, which incidently is also the trunk space of the STS.
  • ral1960ral1960 Posts: 74
    I compared two photos of old and new CTSs and the rear deck height seems to be the same. The rear window does not go nearly as far up into the roof on the new gen., which makes the trunk look higher. It's all an illusion.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Mark,

    You do make a case for a strong arguement in favor of a Bimmer. I guess getting a 08' M3 Sedan for a mid-upper $40K 08' CTS "money" once you factor in all costs would make sense if it works out that way. I have always been a big M3 sedan fan and it looks like BMW has got another winner.

    The M3 sedan will be added to my shopping list if this BMW holds it's residual like you say but our local BMW dealer will probably try to charge over MSRP for it thus I'd buy the Caddy. ;)

    Rocky
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,700
    that BMW regularly is the sales leader in the LPS world, appears to be they often are the lower cost vehicles -- then I guess, you add badge appeal (for some.)

    In my experience its badge appeal for most. Most people I know with BMW's must like the phrase "My BMW" because they try to get it out as fast as possible on meeting someone new. There are plenty of cars out there that cost less, if it were cost alone everyone would be driving Hondas, Chevys, Toyotas and Fords.

    If it were the exact same car for the exact same price with a Ford logo on it how many do you think they would sell?

    But my trusty old accountant still says, "buy that which appreciates, rent that which depreciates."

    Your accountant is an idiot. I have seen people and business's spend way to much money following that advice. You are much better off buying a car and keeping it than continually leasing cars.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,071
    I test drove an SRX with magnaride. I rented one for a long weekend drive to PA (900 miles round trip) without magnaride.

    I test drove another SRX also with magnaride.

    The differences are not subtle.

    On the SRX and some of the other Cadillacs that offer magnaride, you are put into a package buying situation that is somewhat over the top (even for me.)

    Is there any info that suggests magnaride will be offered on the new CTS? I thought I had been turning over every stone, but there seems to be a sport package but it does not mention magnaride (NOT that sport and magna have to go together.)

    Anyone?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,071
    Growing up, I thought Cadillac was the badge appeal car. Even today I have some remaining memories and am sometimes reminded of them when someone says "that fill-in-the-blank is the Cadillac of that fill-in-the-blank."

    BMW does seem to be in the business of renting cars -- they are often heavily subvented, that is. Perhaps you are correct it would be better to buy a car and keep it. But in SOME cases the buy costs double the lease for the same period of time. For some, it seems too dear a price to pay, even if my accountant's general statement is unwise.

    One thing the CTS will have going for it, however, that makes me wonder about buy and hold (favorably) is the 100,000 mile 5 year warranty. The recent report showing the reliability ratings of some 36 cars puts Cadillac in the bottom 1/3 or perhaps even bottom 1/4. Audi is in the top 1/3 and BMW the middle third -- Mercedes is dead last, lower even than VW. My friend with a CTS says the thing has been trouble free for over 3 years.

    I liked the feel behind the wheel of both the current CTS and the SRX -- and the styling, polarizing for some, is more to my taste than a BMW 5.

    I'm coming up on the last 15 months of my Audi 36 month lease. The car, now on its second set of tires, and second battery in the key fob has been a joy in almost every way.

    The fact that the 2007 Audi is almost impossible to discern from a 2005 is also a reason to wonder "should I CPO it and keep it as snakeweasel and others here suggest?" Or, should I spring for the new CTS which, I still contend, will offer similar features as a 2008 to those already in my 2005?

    If the cost to do either is very close, wouldn't I be better off to go with the newer car rather than keep the older one, despite my affection and positive history with it?

    Anyway, the magnaride question will play a part -- try one with and without it, this is a great technology.
  • fenwahfenwah Posts: 58
    I wanted to see what kind of price I could get on a 07 CTS. I was able to get it for almost $2300 below invoice. I kept thinking to myself. Do I really want to shell out $33k on a car that looks really outdated (now that they went public with the 08 CTS), or would I rather spend a little more and get a newer model with a much nicer interior.

    I decided to hold off. My 98 Grand Prix, which I have owned for nine years, is still holding up well (minus some rust). I'm hoping I can get one more year out of my Grand Prix and get a 08 CTS or maybe a 08 GMC Acadia...yeah I know...totally different kinds of cars.
  • rayainswrayainsw Posts: 2,505
    My, my.
    More posts here from you, Mark, than I have seen in the LPS forum in a while.
    Interesting, as always.

    I decided to survey the posts here because I ( guilty of the New Car Every XX Months syndrome – CCBA ) might at least look at a sedan next time out.

    I now drive a Corvette Coupe.

    And the 2008 CTS pictures I have seen ( perhaps there will be one at the Atlanta Show this weekend ? ) seem to indicate exterior styling more to my liking than the current model. Though I admit to needing to see such 3-D objects as cars in the flesh ( in the metal and plastic & rubber ) before making any final determination.

    The CTS-v, if ( eventually ) available with a 6 speed manumatic may be of particular interest, when introduced. Depending on many specifications not yet officially released ( size, HP & TQ of the new V8 for that version, for example ) and exactly what styling changes are included in the “–v”, and price, I may be looking seriously.

    - Ray
    Addicted to [ great steaming piles of ] TQ . . .

    Re: Magnaride.
    I see no mention here:
    http://media.gm.com/us/gm/en/news/events/autoshows/07naias/brands/cadillac/07_NA- IAS_Cadillac_CTS%20Specs_rev121506.htm
  • joem11joem11 Posts: 2
    What's the current thinking on when the '08 CTS will be at the dealers?
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Mark, I would look for magneride to be available on the
    CTS-V or later be available. Next time I talk to Cadillac I will offer it as a product suggestion. Cadillac, has said they worked hard to get the suspension right. The G8 GXP/GTX based off the Holden Commodore HSV will have Delphi's Magneride system and it's adjustable FYI. ;) This should perhaps give us a clue that it might be available on the CTS someday. It might take a few years to make it. I love Magneride also as I had it on my 2002' Cadillac Seville STS. The Buick Lucerne CXS, Corvette, DTS, STS, SRX, Holden HSV's, and future G8 GXP/GTX models will have it also. ;) The 2010' Buick Velite Sedan will have it also. ;)

    Rocky
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I can definately say that the magnetic ride technology is...

    It's like the car went through some sort of wierd time-warp and suddenly you get a suspension that's what you'd expect after over a century of making them. It makes standard suspensions look exactly like trying to do math with a slide-rule when there's this new electronic device calle a calculator. Hopelessly slow and outdated. Last century. Some guy hammering metal into a crude shape and calling it a suspension part.

    Versus something that looks like it belongs on some future tech show on Discovery Channel.

    Test drive the base model Lucerne with the V8 option. Now drive the CXS. The only difference between them other than 1 inch on the rims is the magnetic ride suspension. And it's exactly like the difference between a 3 and a M3. Something drastic just happened. Looks the same on the outside but two totally different animals.

    No torque steer. No lurching, no wobbling and floating through turns. No diving when you stop. It's all.. just... gone. That Lucerne suddenly drives like a late 90s S-Class.(yes it SO doesn't seem possible until you drive it)

    If they put Magnetic Ride on the new CTS, it'll without a doubt eat the IS350 for lunch, shred the G, and make the 5 series look like the overpriced yuppie bling-mobile that it is. (Mercedes... yeah they need to get away from Chrysler ASAP - they just dont compete anymore)
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,071
    You nailed it!

    And, despite some other "yea buts" that I might PERSONALLY want to debate, I have to agree:

    "If they put MagnaRide on the new CTS. . ." well, hell, there's a new sheriff in town. :shades:

    Probably would make profit too at an add on price of, perhaps $1,500 to $1,750 MSRP. Don't cha think!?!
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I'm going to e-mail Cadillac, about this.......

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I e-mailed on the edmunds.com "2008'CTS forum" request that Magnetic Ride Control be available for the 2008' Cadillac CTS. I also asked when bluetooth would be available on the 08's as it's been delayed here so the europeans can get it first and I went off in a rant that we get neglected even though us americans are the most loyal buyers. I'll be looking forward to my response. :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Just curious if anyone heard any more news on the 09' CTS-V ????? The CTS-V, I think will be moved up to my first choice of new cars I want to buy.

    #1 09' CTS-V

    #2 08' CTS-AWD

    #3 08' CTS-RWD

    Rocky
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I believe the order info for the CTS will be available next month on GM's dealer site. Do you ever go to that site? There is no '08 Caddy vehicle info yet but there will be in three weeks.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,579
    When's the car due in showrooms?
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I believe in July or August.
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