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2008 Cadillac CTS

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Comments

  • oldranger1oldranger1 Member Posts: 9
    Excellent question, Mark. The answer is "beats the hell out of me." My mind meant to send the message to my fingers to type "instrument panel." Somehow it didn't happen that way. I blame the computer but I apologize for the confusion. Getting old sucks
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    no, the car isnt out yet and wont be until late summer. You wont see test drives until July or August.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I am 55, which, if I read my magazines correctly is the new 35.

    Thank god!

    All the buzz right now is about the new 535 with the 300HP turbo and nearly weapons grade torque. The new A5 and S5 from Audi are certainly getting lots of buzz too.

    This upcoming CTS -- assuming it is priced like many here think it will be, could be at least a little bit of a spoiler for the Germans.

    I would assume folks might NOT cross shop the CTS w/300HP w the 535, but they sure might cross shop the CTS against the A4's and A5's from the four interlocking rings, and the 3's from the blue propeller company.

    I keep reading and reading all the specs and from a size standpoint the new CTS seems to be an A6 and 5 series rival. Perhaps it is just me, perhaps I am becoming -- of all things -- pragmatic, but other than my own cross shopping, I just can't imagine folks will look at the middle child of the Germans against the CTS, even with 300HP and AWD.

    Fully loaded, I'll wager (nothing of great $ value), the new 300HP AWD CTS will be tickling the underbelly of $50K -- I mean how can this car have all this content and SIZE and performance (on paper at least) and not zoom right past $45K like it was a nearly flattened speed bump?

    I hope ye Cadillac faithful are correct that one will be sold at a mid $40's price with all that content.

    Other than the A5/S5, this new CTS is the one that seems worth a long look.

    Of course the 535 will be awesome -- but heck, it'll be $60K without even trying.

    I just configured a 530xi, and I didn't even -- to my tastes -- option it out heavily and ZOOOOOOOM it was right up there HELLO at nearly 60 large.

    Of course load up a 3 series -- and kissing $50K is pretty easy, too.

    The CTS could win a few comparos price factored in, if it does all that its early press claims at prices the faithful believe will prevail.

    11 months to go on the A6!

    Tick tock.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I just don't get the attraction, no, more like affliction people have with all-wheel-drive.

    Subaru has a nice video about AWD systems on Google. It's biased, naturally, but the wet and hill climb tests aren't fudged at all. The AWD systems in 90% of all vehicles are a complete joke in actual use. They just, plainly put, don't work at all. Mercedes, BMW, GM - it makes no difference except in a few specific examples which never happen in real life. Looks good in a commercial, but with the traction control, limited slip diff, and the AWD computers all fighting each other, by the time it figures it all out... it's far too late.(driving on ice and snow in the winter is about all it does halfway well, though snow tires will do twice as much for you)

    The CTS should start at about 35K and be a massive thorn in the base 5 series' side.
  • bruceomegabruceomega Member Posts: 250
    pletko,

    It might be useful to start an AWD versus RWD thread if one does not already exist.

    I am one who prefers AWD, but realize its not for everyone. Reason for me is I want a car that I can rely on as much as possible for driving all year long in any road condition. I understand the performance advantages of RWD, and have owned many RWD cars in the past and successfully driven them in the snow. But I like the higher assurance of AWD in non optimal road conditions.

    With everything else being equal, such as the same tires, then AWD has 4 wheels versus 2 to search for traction, and I feel AWD is more stable when the tires do lose traction. I have an 06 330Xi and in several icy conditions this past winter, my car lost traction a few times even though I was feathering the gas and driving with due diligence. The nice thing was, the car did not slide, the rear end did not kick out, and the car did nothing erratic except basically spin the tires for the very short amount of time it took me to let up on the gas. I am sure modern stability controls are very helpful, but I don't consider them a panacea.

    I've had several other personal experiences where I was able to throttle my AWD BMWs (had an 01 before the current car) around corners and through slippery spots in the snow when I had all season tires and even summer performance tires. I would not have attempted to do that with a RWD car with those same tires.

    I do think its an interesting discussion comparing RWD with winter tires to AWD with all season tires. But I am trying to address differences in AWD versus RWD per se.

    In the area that I live, Wash DC metro area, we have as much problem with sleet, freezing rain and ice as we do snow. This is compounded by it not being all that cold here - ice at 32 degrees is more slippery than at 0 degrees. The other problem we have is high traffic density combined with drivers who panic at the first hint of snow. That means you can't do common sense things like maintain momentum when approaching a hill because the road is blocked with stalled cars. Or, you're forced to come to a stop on a hill and start from a dead stop.

    In addition to the challenges of commuting in the DC area itself, we like to take weekend trips to include going into the local mini-mountains, where I feel more confortable with AWD.

    These are the reasons for AWD for my own priorities and preferences. YMMV.

    Thanks
    Bruce
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    AWD also provides superior grip in the dry. I race an AWD racecar at the road race courses and even in the dry it gives me significantly better advantage over my competition. Not to mention in the rain, we basically will run down all the other FWD and RWD cars on the track.

    -mike
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    I know this is an old message, but it mentions a really cool feature about the new CTS which is comming on new cars and will change the driving expeirience almost as much as the self parking system from lexus...

    the Hard drive!

    Yes, the new CTS will have a 40gig hard drive, so you can rip songs on a cd or meybe even dvd, and dounload them right to your car! It will keep them in memeory how cool is that!

    Also, at 40 gigs you can fit alot of songs, but also I heard that this CTS may have those cornering lights, as you turn your steering wheel. if thats true that would be awesome.

    Hey, for anyone interested in the base version of this car with 258 hp, the standard interrior trim is CARBON FIBER, and there is plenty of it!

    I heard that the CTS-V version will have 550hp and in 2 years they will have a coupe version!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yes, I spoke to a representative :D
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Yes, the new CTS will have a 40gig hard drive, so you can rip songs on a cd or meybe even dvd, and dounload them right to your car! It will keep them in memeory how cool is that!

    The eclipse head units have had these for a few years already. 20GB for the Navigation, the rest will be for music/videos, you put a CD in and it'll rip it. Cool, but not "revolutionary"

    I heard that this CTS may have those cornering lights, as you turn your steering wheel. if thats true that would be awesome.

    Another feature I had on my 1974 Oldsmobile 98, also had on my 2000 Isuzu Trooper. The 1994-2001 Troopers also had power retracting mirrors that finally hit the SUV market in like 2003ish.

    -mike
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    The difference between an AWD racecar which has full-time 4x4 versus those part-time systems is that the part-time systems just don't work.

    (I'm going to call it 4x4 since that's what the full-time systems really are as opposed to decide which set of wheels gets how much power some of the time "AWD")

    Here's an all too typical scenario.
    - You are going 60mph. You hit a bit of ice on the road. Now, this translates to 88 feet per second.
    - The AWD tries to do its job 1/4 second later, but by this time, you are 22ft beyond the icy patch and sliding sideways.
    - The traction-control has to try to wrestle the car back into line. And as seen on the Subaru videos, if it's wet or you hit more ice, it all falls apart, since nothing happens for half a second, which is 44ft - about two car lengths. You end up going sideways.

    Compare that to full-time 4x4:
    You hit the patch of ice and the car adds a bit more power to the affected wheel. The traction control kicks in 1/4 second later to adjust things back into line and that's it. Slight wobble and business as usual.

    The problem is the computers and the time it takes to turn the system on and off. They fight each other or react too slow to work with part-time systems except in one specific case, snow. If you have to move around on a snowy street at less than ~20mph, they do help somewhat, but not half as much as full-time 4x4. Many people say, not as much as good snow tires, but I've seen 4x4s up above 6000ft running around in snow with all-seasons just fine, so 4x4 beats even snow tires.

    Subaru, Audi, and Jeep in 4wd "lock" mode are the only choices that actually work in bad weather besides snow, because they are on all the time - giving power to all four wheels more or less equally.

    It's well worth your time as a consumer to research this and buy a proper full-time 4x4 vehicle instead of believing the marketing hype.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Agreed, if you have a system with <10% power going to a particular axle it's pretty much worthless for highspeed on-road.

    Audi (some audis)
    Subarus
    Jeep (some jeep systems)
    Isuzu (TOD)
    Nissans (at least in the Armada)
    Toyota (Land Cruiser)
    and some others.

    All provide some power to each axle at all times when in AWD mode, this means that if there is slippage in a particular wheel/axle the other already has power and can pull you out of the bad situation such systems are pre-emtive AWD systems, the others you find in a lot of other vehicles provide a re-actionary AWD which as described above will help you once you are stuck or in slow moving snowy situations but do little to help in slick conditions.

    -mike
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I forgot about the couple of others you mentioned. All all-wheel drive systems aren't created equally. GM's version are definately the reactionary type. Given that a CTS isn't normally going to be driven in the snow, it's just added weight and cost on the highway that doesn't help any.
  • bruceomegabruceomega Member Posts: 250
    plekto,

    I thought the BMW X dive system in my 2006 normally sends about 40% of its torque to the front wheels and 60% to the rears, so the steady state condition is close to equal power to each end of the car. In reaction to changing conditions, it can redirect the torque to something like 90% going to either end of the car.

    I think the previous generation X drive system in my 2001 330Xi had a fixed torque split of about 35% front, 65% rear. It could not redistribute the torque, but reacted to changing conditions through throttle and brake adjustments.

    Thanks
    Bruce
  • bingomanbingoman Member Posts: 373
    I just got a mailer from Ehlers Cadillac of Los Angeles for the 2007 CTS. Only $299.00 plus tax per month for 39 months after an upfront of $2,999 with 10,000 miles per year and $.25 per excess mile. And the car wont be available for several months yet. :confuse:
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    "I just got a mailer from Ehlers Cadillac of Los Angeles for the 2007 CTS. Only $299.00 plus tax per month for 39 months after an upfront of $2,999 with 10,000 miles per year and $.25 per excess mile. And the car wont be available for several months yet"

    If, indeed, this offer is for a 2007 ( not a 2008 ) I expect that they have them in stock.

    The 2008s won't be available for a while...
    - Ray
    Been driving a 2007 for months now...
    2022 X3 M40i
  • bingomanbingoman Member Posts: 373
    The lease offer was a bit misleading. It is for a 2007 CTS, not a 2008, but it is over a picture of a 2008 CTS. Geez, what cheap misleading advertising. :P
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    The GM site has the real deal, plus the proper picture. IT's still a very good deal, given the 39 month term and an expected 50% deprecitation in that time.

    I calculated it out and it's still WAY more money to buy it. $14661 in total payments, including the downpayment.

    To buy it, you'd lose more than that in depreciation in the first 39 months. ie - 30,000 price, 0% financing, minus 11,661 in payments(no down), and a resale resale of ~16K... You actually come out worse than leasing it.

    There's no having to resell it or deal with maintainence. And your monthly payment is a lot less, because you don't have to sell it to recoup some of your cost(you actually lose 3-4K more than your payments by buying it) If you have 5-7% interest, it's an even worse situation to buy it.

    Looks awfully similar to the BMW and Audi leases going on right now. Silly low money that puts it at better than buying it outright.

    Edit:
    Exact figures:(cars.com has a nice calculator)
    California sales tax added to the "buy" price.(moot with lease or minimal - what's the tax on $299 each month?)

    Lease: $15870(including CA sales tax).
    Buy: 36 months @1.9%(GM financing)
    $30,000 price. $3000 down.
    $33,346 spent. Minus $16K trade-in. Total spent in the end: 17,346.

    0% financing is $32475. $16475 spent in the end. ~$600 more to buy than lease.(not even counting the money tied up every month vs leasing, which you could put to work for you in other ways)

    This ALSO assumes you haggle the price down from a MSRP of $34,630!. In reality, you'll be closer to $32K out the door with 0% financing, or 3K behind versus this silly lease.

    This is a first, really - BMW leasing rates on a Cadillac.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I don't want to sound like Al Gore on global warming "The Debate is OVER, Global Warming is REAL," kind of thing. So. . .I will not say the debate is over, AWD is synonymous with performance.

    I don't know if 90% of the AWD systems are a complete joke. I suspect Audi, BMW and Mercedes would take great issue with that statement.

    Insofar as track performance is concerned (and I assume most folks don't take their $35,000 - $105,000 AWD ELLPS, LPS and High-Zoot AWD cars on the track very often) the evidence is substantial and seems to increase all the time that really well done AWD is the performance champeen.

    The evidence is overwhelming that street performance in a car with really well done AWD (from every aspect) has been the champeen for some time now.

    Perhaps the AWD systems that are "jokes" are the ones that are 95% FWD and reactionary RWD kicks in from time to time. But even some of those types of AWD are improvements over 2WD drivelines.

    I certainly hope the CTS starts at $35K. The price comparisons however will be between the CTS, A4 and 3 series (and probably the Infiniti G35.) Crank up the content in the Cadillac (and if it follows the STS, in this regard) it just seems as if it will zoom right on past $45K. Of course, the BMW will be $60+K and that isn't chump change.

    However, therefore, notwithstanding -- the majority of BMW 5 series cars are leased. The lease prices, despite the MSRP's can be quite close to the lease prices of cars $10,000 their lessors.

    Call it subventing, call it higher residuals, call it better money factors -- but will a $45,000 CTS lease for less than $600 per month? A more expensive MSRP BMW isn't much more than that today.

    It may or may not be good for you or for anyone for that matter -- but despite higher MSRP's, these German's and some of the Japanese have figured out how to make the "rental" TCO for 36 months very attractive.

    The STS just seems so expensive. Hopefully the CTS will come to market priced like those early Lexus cars.

    In any case, from either country, Germany or the US, make mine AWD.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Perhaps the AWD systems that are "jokes" are the ones that are 95% FWD and reactionary RWD kicks in from time to time. But even some of those types of AWD are improvements over 2WD drivelines.

    The problem is that this is how 90% of them do operate. And it's worse than 2wd because you get sudden power transfers at speed which make the traction control systems go nuts. The stability control is the only thing that saves your bacon at this point, while a 2wd car would merely wobble a bit and then the stability control would kick in in 1/4 ot 1/2 the time(nothing fighting itself)

    Poorly implimented(reactive) AWD is less safe than not having it at all, with an exception for snow and really slow-speed crawling in muck.

    GM - they don't make a proper AWD system, so there's no reason to expect that their AWD will work like it should. Also, consider that the CTS is RWD. This means that when power is transferred, it comes in at the front, which exacerbates any steering problem that you have. It also adds weight and sluggishness to the front wheels and torque-steer which weren't originally there.

    Effectively you jst killed the advantage of a RWD setup and likely with one that doesn't or won't work. GM's smartest thing would be to NOT offer AWD on a RWD car at this point.

    P.S. I see $299 a month or 39 months - with $3000 down currently on a 3.6L CTS. You seem to have a problem with the pricing. The CTS will be well under $35K to start and under $400 a month to lease. That's the facts regardless of what you keep wanting to think.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    GM - they don't make a proper AWD system, so there's no reason to expect that their AWD will work like it should. Also, consider that the CTS is RWD. This means that when power is transferred, it comes in at the front, which exacerbates any steering problem that you have. It also adds weight and sluggishness to the front wheels and torque-steer which weren't originally there.

    I'm going to have to disagree, on the trucks (Denali and Escalade) there is a fairly stout AWD system with power to both font and rear wheels.

    What makes you say that there would be torque steer when power is put to the front axle? You only get that in FWD vehciles that don't have an LSD or have un-even axle lengths (most FWD based cars would have this).

    -mike
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    The CTS is RWD. But an "AWD" version, assuming they use a system like they use in the Vibe or other non-truck GM vehicles will mess up the handling when the front wheels engage or if they shift power ratios suddenly. There's no way to make an "AWD" system work with a RWD vehicle unless it's something like full-time 4x4.

    P.S. Can you do me a HUGE favor? I noticed that there's no electric vehicle forum(should be a top-level one like alternative fuels are - or at the least, under it). Thanks.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I hope you are correct regarding the lease payments. My guess is they will be a number beginning with a 6 equipped with "premium, nav, sport and high zoot audio."

    Pricing an STS or SRX so equipped makes BMW's seem a bargain at this juncture.

    MSRP is only important for those paying cash -- a shrinking minority.

    The price of a 2007 CTS is virtually without relevance since it is not in competition in any way with the next.
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    If they do not price themselves out of the market, and if the quality is better than the last cts (which was not bad), then they will have a winner.

    I really like the STS, and while the 2008 is nice, I can't wait for a redo, I hope they have a new V8 with 400 or so HP. Mercedes is pushing close to 400 and Cadillac should take the lead.

    Can you imagine, is the base will be 400hp, what a V series would look like?

    Also, I think they should have the V series special engines, not like Jaguar that just adds a supercharger :)

    Sorry for the rant!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The CTS is RWD. But an "AWD" version, assuming they use a system like they use in the Vibe or other non-truck GM vehicles will mess up the handling when the front wheels engage or if they shift power ratios suddenly. There's no way to make an "AWD" system work with a RWD vehicle unless it's something like full-time 4x4.

    Well the systems used on any of the GM vehicles that are not RWD based, would not work on a RWD platform car like the CTS. The Vibe system wouldn't work as it's for a FWD based vehicle, the only ones that would work would be those used on a FWD vehicle. GM has AWD car transmissions, used in the Holdens in Australia, as well as the ones used in the Escalades, Denalis, Trailblazer SS, etc.


    P.S. Can you do me a HUGE favor? I noticed that there's no electric vehicle forum(should be a top-level one like alternative fuels are - or at the least, under it). Thanks.

    I'm not a host for that area, but any posts for "electric" vehicles can be put under the Alternative Fuels as that's what it is.

    -mike
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    There's no section under alternate Fuels for electric only.

    As for the AWD, I don't expect Cadillac to do much except reverse the typical FWD mechanisms to work in reverse. IMO, it's just not worth it trying to re-engineer a proper AWD system when even BMW doesn't rely on it in their M series.

    With FWD, AWD might be required, but with RWD, it's just not really needed.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    As for the AWD, I don't expect Cadillac to do much except reverse the typical FWD mechanisms to work in reverse. IMO, it's just not worth it trying to re-engineer a proper AWD system when even BMW doesn't rely on it in their M series.

    They already have AWD in the STS, they also have AWD systems used by Holden in Australia. There is no way to "reverse" the typical FWD mechanism to work with the arcitecture of RWD. First you have a longitudinal engine as opposed to a transverse which right there presents a very different setup than simply reversing what's found in FWD.

    With FWD, AWD might be required, but with RWD, it's just not really needed.

    Could you explain a bit more? If anything with FWD you don't need AWD as much because you have weight over the drive wheels which leads to better traction, whereas with RWD you have less weight over the drivewheels. Do explain, as I'm quite curious.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    There's no section under alternate Fuels for electric only.

    Pros and Cons of Electric Vehicles would be a good place to start.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Tuning Host
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I did a search for electric and nothing came back. Odd. ;)

    Anyways about RWD not needing AWD. The problem with FWD cars is that they steer with the driving wheels and the rear is literally along for the ride doing nothing at all. AWD fixes some of this behavior, but the RWD car really only needs stability control to keep the rear end from sliding out in a turn. I don't see very mean AWD racing cars. Nope - they are RWD with all the electronic goodies and modes for a good reason. It just works best to have the steering not connected to the engine in any way.

    Now, Audi does make a nice and proper system. But GMs just doesn't work very well. It's like ABS. It makes you feel safer and more competant(or at least most people), but it's no substitute for good driving skills. People think "AWD" and think safer, but it's just not so. Not unless you dig into each system and take a hard look at how it works(and most fail).
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Anyways about RWD not needing AWD. The problem with FWD cars is that they steer with the driving wheels and the rear is literally along for the ride doing nothing at all. AWD fixes some of this behavior, but the RWD car really only needs stability control to keep the rear end from sliding out in a turn. I don't see very mean AWD racing cars. Nope - they are RWD with all the electronic goodies and modes for a good reason. It just works best to have the steering not connected to the engine in any way.

    C'mon over to the motorsports section and I'll gladly school you on AWD in racing (Can we say it was banned due to ultimate grip).

    As for RWD handling better, if we are talking dry, clean roads. Throw in some snow, road-grime, or rain and it's a different ball game. We are talking real-world v. "theoretical" and in the real world AWD will outhandle a RWD or FWD car, period.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Tuning Host
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Yet, what car were you driving? Bet it was an Audi or Subaru, right?

    I still maintain that a bungled halfway implimentation of the technology is no better and often worse than not having it at all. And 90% of the systems out there are junk despite what the marketing says.

    Plus, 37-3800lbs is considered normal for a car now? Wow - that's half the problem wright there.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Plus, 37-3800lbs is considered normal for a car now? Wow - that's half the problem wright there.

    That's fairly light actually. Your grand touring coupes these days run 3500. I'd say that most luxury cars are going to be in the 37-3800 easily.

    Anyway let's get back to discussing the upcoming 2008 CTS.

    -mike
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I'd want anyone I care about and practically anyone I know to have AWD as their daily driver -- I cannot even imagine what would make one of these worse than not having it at all.

    The new CTS AWD will have a performance oriented (rear biased, too) system that, despite the weight penalty, will, I'll wager make the CTS AWD the most capable of the line, under almost all circumstances (excluding off road, of course, since this is NOT the purpose of this vehicle.)

    :shades:
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Only downside is that the General doesn't have a manual AWD tranny so the CTS w/AWD will still only have an AT, but this is common on most AWD systems on vehicles these days.

    -mike
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    6 speed AT, yes?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    6 speed AT, yes?

    They do have a 6 speed AT w/AWD that is found in the Denali and Escalade that they could probably shoe-horn into the CTS if need be. I'm not certain of the physical setup on that trans/transfer case and would need to see if it could be used on a car-based platform.

    -mike
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    The AWD will only come with a 6-speed automatic from all the reports I read. I was disappointed to learn that. :sick:

    Rocky
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    The AWD will only come with a 6-speed automatic from all the reports I read. I was disappointed to learn that.

    Rocky

    I think the only V8 AWD MTs on the market are the Audis. I don't know of any other AWD V8 on the market anywhere. I think that's only the S4 and S6(maybe?)

    -mike
  • bruceomegabruceomega Member Posts: 250
    markcincinnati,

    Not trying to go OT with info on BMW, but regarding the performance of AWD versus RWD, according to the BMW brochures the 335 AWD accelerates a bit faster to 60 than the 335 RWD, and the 535 AWD accelerates a bit faster to 60 than the 535 RWD.

    I was surprised by that, and will be curious to see if anything similar occurs on the CTS AWD versus CTS RWD, especially with the higher output engine (for the lower powered 328 and 528 BMWs, the RWD cars accelerate a bit faster than the AWD cars).

    Bruce
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Also any info on the RWD v. AWD 300c acceleration?

    -mike
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The weight penalty of AWD -- all other things being equal -- explains the tick or two loss of quickness.

    Several manufacturers, Audi being one of them, have demonstrated the cars with AWD can and do perform at the top of the heap, time and again.

    Audi has done similar things with diesel.

    The point is well taken, AWD does add weight. Weight, generally speaking is NOT good.

    Yet there are performance "gets" for the weight "gives" -- and in the best desgined and executed systems, you "gets" more than you "gives."

    Cadillac, practically speaking, with the CTS that you and I might end up with is probably not claiming they will bring a CTS to market with AWD that will be as quick as the one with only RWD.

    For many of us, however, we will appreciate the overall package with AWD more than the one with only RWD.
  • jpennjpenn Member Posts: 68
    Ok, now we're really getting way off the subject of the 2008 CTS but here my real life story which took place just yesterday in Beautiful Upstate Central New York. You be aware that we received apprx. 12-14 inches of wet heavy snow yesterday (it's still snowing today, by the way). It happens that I had an appt. to take my 2002 Acura MDX in for some work and was given a new FWD Acura TL as a loaner. The trip to the dealership in my MDX was not pleasant but was no big deal it got through every type of snow hazard without a problem. Coming home was a completely different story. The TL was very skittish on snow covered up hills and was impossible on my uphill driveway ( I had to wait for the plow guy in order to get into the garage).

    The point of all of this is that I will not consider an 08 CTS without AWD even if it weighs more and is outperformed by RWD simply because in the real world scenario I need it.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Ok, now we're really getting way off the subject of the 2008 CTS but here my real life story which took place just yesterday in Beautiful Upstate Central New York. You be aware that we received apprx. 12-14 inches of wet heavy snow yesterday (it's still snowing today, by the way).

    I too was upstate yesterday around albany. I saw no less than 20 cars off the road on the Northway and NYS Thruway. Funniest one of all was a NYS Trooper sitting down an embankment in the center median. He wasn't a happy camper!

    Alas back to the 2008 CTS. Any word on the CTS V?

    -mike
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Any word on the CTS V?

    Good question........ ;)

    Rocky
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Several manufacturers, Audi being one of them, have demonstrated the cars with AWD can and do perform at the top of the heap, time and again.

    Audi and a couple of others make proper systems. And they work very well. I highly recommend a Subaru or Audi. But almost everyone else makes systems that are "all-wheel-drive" in name only. They just don't work as well as they should and give people a false sense of security. This is like putting a deadbolt on your door and leaving the non-reinforced wood frame still there.

    Well, gosh - they kicked the door in in 2 seconds regardless of your new fancy security feature. AWD systems that are half-baked implementations of the technology, mostly to save the cost of a second transfer case are also similarly ineffective in an emergency.

    So let's see... CTS with all-wheel drive(FWD biased because of the automatic transmission, most likely) versus RWD and stickshift. No-brainer decision.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    So let's see... CTS with all-wheel drive(FWD biased because of the automatic transmission, most likely) versus RWD and stickshift. No-brainer decision.

    WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING IT WILL HAVE A FWD BIAS?

    Look at the 300c, 4-Matic, BMW, and several other vehicles that are RWD based cars. Guess what? They have a RWD or 50/50 bias.

    This is also not an AWD discussion, so let's put that aside.

    -mike
    Motorsports and Tuning Host
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I still have no faith in GM of all companies to put the R&D into making a proper AWD system on a car. They haven't so far on their past attempts.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Do some reading on the Holden AWD system. It will give you insight to the GM AWD on a RWD Platform.

    -mike
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    It is likely that other than 0-to-something that the RWD will outperform the AWD CTS. Relax.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    ...that AWD has much to offer me once the temperature rises above freezing & the snow goes away. In my NYC suburb, there are no more than 10 days in any given year when AWD confers real value. I can work at home on those days, but if I have to go out, the family stable includes a 4WD Honda CR-V. Given that, why should I put up with the cost, complexity & performance hit that come with AWD?

    I'm at least 2 years away from replacing my RWD BMW 330i. If I do pick the CT-S (& I like the little that I've seen so far), then make mine a 6-speed manual RWD.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    ...that AWD has much to offer me once the temperature rises above freezing & the snow goes away. In my NYC suburb, there are no more than 10 days in any given year when AWD confers real value. I can work at home on those days, but if I have to go out, the family stable includes a 4WD Honda CR-V. Given that, why should I put up with the cost, complexity & performance hit that come with AWD?

    I'm at least 2 years away from replacing my RWD BMW 330i. If I do pick the CT-S (& I like the little that I've seen so far), then make mine a 6-speed manual RWD.

    That's cool you can definitely pick up the 6-speed MT, if they make a 6-speed MT in a non-CTSV version.

    As for living in a NYC Suburb, so do I! Amazingly we have completely contrasting views on this, but that's the beauty of America!

    -mike
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    I tend to agree, I have lived in the midwest all but a few years of my life and the years I didn't live here I was in Alaska. I have only had a few times when a RWD car would have been no good. Most of those times an AWD sedan would have been useless too.

    What really amazes me is all the AWD cars in ditches right after a major snow fall.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

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