Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

The Future of Mercedes-Benz?

2

Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    That's what I thought but I wanted to be sure. ;)

    Rocky

    P.S. They are nice. :)
  • countsmackula1countsmackula1 Member Posts: 61
    Mercedes cars are actually more affordable now relative to the average income than they were twenty or thirty years ago. My 1983 300SD stickered new for $28,735 in 1983! (I am not the orginal owner) Its modern edition eqivalent, the E320CDI, is $53,000, but look how much incomes have risen..(on average). Really investigate, don't estimate! Also the quality has definitely gone downhill. Mine and others like it were built without consideration to cost initially, and then priced. Now, as with everything, saving pennies on a lesser-quality door handle mechanism overrules all.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    Yep, you're right about that. Heck, in the late 80s a 190E 2.6 could have easily passed 30K, a new C isn't much more. My old W126 300SE stickered at 54K in 1989....for a SWB 6cyl car. My C43 stickered at 58K in 1998! The C55 was cheaper 8 years later. A 300E was about 40K in 1986...in 2006 it's equivalent wasn't much over 50K. So in relative terms, these cars are cheaper than ever. And as you mention, there's a reason for it.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    BEIJING — Mercedes-Benz wrapped up its marathon Paris-to-Beijing diesel run on November 17, reporting that the eBay team won the fuel economy contest with an average of 7.19 liters/100 km (32.7 mpg) over the 8,700-mile trek.

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=117654

    Rocky
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Back in 1989, I looked at a new Mercedes 560SEL. It stickered for $73,900. I wonder how much Mercedes cars would cost today if they stuck with their old formula of simply building the car first and then putting a price on it. Would a C-Class be around $50K? Lexus put an end to this philosophy and the party was over for Benz. I still wouldn't mind having something like a 1991 560SEL. Those cars still look fresh today.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    True MB went through some adjustments, but I'd suggest you take a look at a S550 or SL550, they're built as close to the old days as you feasibly get. The new W221 S is head and shoulders above the previous W220 model when it comes to build quality as are the SL,CLS and CL. The current E is much better than the previous model too. There is nothing shoddy about any German-made 07' Benz. The Bama models...well....they still aren't up to snuff.

    M
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    I think you're right on that pricing strategy. If a 190 cost 30K in 1986 and a C costs 35K in 2006...an E cost 40K in 1986 and 50K in 2006, something has to give.

    The new S550 is about 90K, which is almost exactly where a S500 would have been 10 years ago. But that new S550 is really a beauty, and I still have yet to hear about any glitches, and it's been on the road in NA for almost a year now. So I am optimistic that some bugs might be behind them.

    A W126 with euro lights is an excellent looking car in my book, too. They still turn my head. And a show quality 560SEL is worth maybe 10K...
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    For shift in gears, a little stroll down memory lane with the E-Class:

    image

    W120/W121 1953-1962. Also known as Ponton.
    image

    W110 "Heckflosse / Fintail", 1959-1968
    image

    W114/W115 "Strich-8" 1967-1976
    image

    W123, 1976-1985
    image

    W124, 1985-1995
    image
    My personal favorite of all time so far, the car I saw so much growing up. It was also the "300E" from this model series that started my love affair with Mercedes-Benz. I plan to have one of these one day, either a 500E/E500 or a 300CE/E320 Coupe.

    W210, 1995-2002
    image

    W211, 2002-2010?
    image

    Some special E-Classes through the years:

    W124 500E / E500 with the R129 500SL V8, 326-hp

    image

    This car is likely the most exclusive sedan Mercedes has produced in the last 20 or so years. It had a Porsche engineered chassis, exclusive interior and the engine from the 500SL of the day, unheard of during that era. In 1994 it stickered for about 80K and a good example can go for 30K still today. Today, the E550 and SL550 sharing the same engine is no big deal.

    582-hp W211 Brabus E-Class
    image

    W124 Stretchlimousine
    image

    The weakest gasoline engine in the W120/W121 had 72-hp. Now, the weakest gasoline E-Class has 163-horesepower (a Euro model of course).
    image

    M
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    Very cool, I love a lineage like that. It's nice to see a company that can cherish its history. You can really see how the original kind of morphs into the present. Is there anything out there like that about S-class?

    One little goof though...W110 fintail was introduced in 1961, the W111 is the version from 1959. I like the tires on that car too.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I think some of the years may be off from what we know here because they're using the years in which they were introduced in Europe.

    Yes there is one for the S-Class too:

    W136 / W191: 1951-1962
    image

    W189: 1954-1957
    image

    W121: 1954-1960
    image

    W111 / W112: 1959-1971
    image

    W108: 1965-1972
    image

    W116: 1972-1980
    image

    W126: 1979-1991
    image
    Another Mercedes forever etched into my mind when growing up. Loved the 560SEL to death.

    W140: 1991-1998
    image
    The sheer size of this car was unbelievable when I first saw it in the fall of 1991. One of my favorite S-Classes.

    W220: 1998-2005
    image
    Without a doubt the "prettiest" S-Class ever made, dowwright stunning with the AMG package. It didn't live up the legendary build quality of previous models though.

    W221: 2005-2012?
    image
    The new and largely improved kid on the block. This model seems to be a vast improvement over the W220 in every way. It is built better and is proving to be very reliable.

    M
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    Now those are some cars! I'll take one of each. Although I don't know about that original 220 being a real S class...it's still a great lineup.

    About the W110...the lowline pontons remained in production through early 1961, when the lowline fintails replace them. I think a lot of people just see a fintail as a fintail, and get the dates a little off. There are many 1960 and 1961 pontons out there. But for the others, yeah the earliest year given is the first year of Euro market production, which will usually predate NA model years by 1 or 2 years.

    Beautiful W126 shot, yes. Great colors, timeless design. Probably my favorite car growing up too...not many 10 year olds would have wanted a big heavy sedan so much, but the design caught my eye from a young age. There's not much you could do to improve the design, it is still very handsome and elegant.

    Funny that the W221 used has Japanese plates, too.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Merc, thanx for the nice pics. It's cool to see how a specific car has progressed. :)

    Rocky
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    We must be around the same age because the W126 and W124 were the Benzes I wanted as a kid and early teen.

    Here is a through the years look at the SL:

    W198 1954-1963 (300SL Gullwing / Roadster)
    image

    R121 1955-1963 (190SL)
    image

    W113 1963-1971 (Pagoda)
    image

    R107 1971-1989
    image

    This is the first SL I ever remember. I remember it being called something akin to a German Corvette, but of course with a lot more polish.

    R129 1989-2001
    image

    This was my favorite Mercedes for 10 years or more. This car put the "tank" description in Mercedes' cars for sure. Back in 1989 it was so ahead of anything else on the road it wasn't even funny. The engine, safety systems, build quality and style had no equal in the class.

    R230 2001-2011?
    image

    Today's stunner and still head of the class and improved to perfection for 2007. Arguably Mercedes' greatest car.

    M
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    This was my favorite Mercedes for 10 years or more. This car put the "tank" description in Mercedes' cars for sure. Back in 1989 it was so ahead of anything else on the road it wasn't even funny. The engine, safety systems, build quality and style had no equal in the class.

    I 100% agree ;)

    However, the competition has caught up or passed by Mercedes, well at least from my perspective.

    Rocky

    P.S. Those were some nice pics Merc.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    The first MB I really remember is the W123, which were common when I was young, even in the smallish town where I lived. There were a few older models about too, but I wasn't too interested in them - I thought fintails were just too strange. I remember a doctor friend of my parents had a W126, which I thought was a great car even then. I remember when the W124 came out, someone on the same block as my aunt got one, and I remember sneaking over to look at it...40K seems like all the money in the world when you are 9!

    The SL has perhaps the most consistent heritage of any mass produced modern car. Some have been weaker than others, but there are more similarities than differences.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    Some MB models might vary, but nobody has met the SL and the S class yet. IMO, nothing out there compares to them right now. Lexus might meet the S on paper, but the numb isolated driving experience hurts it.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Ummmm, perhaps the Lexus doesn't quite meet the S-class because its a little numb. However its pretty darn fast and is packed with the latest Gadgets, and is ultra reliable. If i were to choose it would be a hard one. If you were to AMG me a S600, then it's a no brainer. ;)

    Rocky

    P.S. I still like the looks of the XLR, over the SL. Only slightly though. ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    If I could afford an LS, I could afford an S...so that's what I would choose.

    The XLR just looks a little disjointed to me, too edgy, and the top lowering sequence is inelegant. SL keeps advancing, XLR needs to do so as well.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Okay, I agree the XLR, needs a big upgrade.

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    I am sure it will get one, too. Some normalized styling and maybe a little tuning. Competition is a good thing.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    okay, agree........

    Rocky
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Both those cars are more affordable with each passing year. I suspect a lot of W124 500Es have been abused by now though.

    Fin, now is your chance. In the Autoweek classifieds there is a 1994 E500 with only 8K on the clock! It was supposedly owned by Al Unser Jr. I'm sure they want big money for it especially since no price is listed. That is about as perfect a E500 as you'll ever find.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Yeah the W124, W126 and R129 were just that special to me. I wanted a 560SEC so bad after a comparo C&D did back in the day. I believe they compared it to a BMW 635CSi (another favorite) and Jag XJS. Then of course I remember the 300CE vs. Legend Coupe vs. Eldorado comparo. Then there was the 300E, STS, Legend comparo in 1986, naturally MB walked away with wins in all of these.

    M
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    The late 80s certainly was the pinnacle. Look how many of these cars are still around in nice condition, 20 years later. That says something.

    I remember when the 129 came out and demand was so steep, they were bringing 100K! It seemed insane then. Today you can get a new SL for less.

    I can't believe Caddy was even in those comparos. Not their best day!
  • gwinbeargwinbear Member Posts: 16
    When I graduate I'm planning to get the W124 500E. Today I saw one for $14500. For its extreme rarity, this is as inexpensive as one can get. They usually go for $30,000 even for a 14 year old car.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    Those are fantasic cars

    Just be sure to find one that's been cared for...they are falling into less than careful maintainers more and more every day.
  • rambobrambob Member Posts: 4
    Just got back from 2 weeks in Italy and MB everywhere....but many models unavailable here. Really liked the A Class and the Viano. Tho we had an 02 C Class Sport that had spent more time in the shop :lemon: : than on the road (all under MB warranty,at least) for the 2 yrs we put up with all of it, I might consider the A if it ever came here.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    As merc1 put his "new" ride here, so will I.

    Phone pics, so they can be a little washed out

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Ooooh nice. What year? You got rid of the C43 AMG?

    M
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    It's an 02, last of the W210s.

    I wasn't seriously looking for a new car, but I couldn't pass up this deal. It cost 10K more than I paid for the C43...and it is half as old, has half the mileage, and is much more comfortable, not to mention can actually fit 4 people comfortably. That's how I rationalized it anyway.

    They actually gave me private party book for it, and that combined with the sales tax savings made it attractive, as I couldn't have got much more than that total, and who knows how long I would have had to try to sell it.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    fintail,

    Is that a S-class you bought ?

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    Nope, E55, but still a fair dose of gadgetology, at least for me.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Did I see AMG letters on the back or was my eyes playing games ?

    Rocky

    P.S. BTW nice car. I love Black Benz's..... :)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    Of course it's AMG...nothing normal for me.

    Thanks. It's actually a semi-dark grey. 'Tectite' is the official color name. It's a one-year-only color on W210s.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    LOL, I do really like it. How much power fintail ?

    0-60 in 4.?

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    349 hp, most sources I see give 0-60 in 4.8-5.1. It is a nearly 3800 lb car. 391 lb/ft helps, too.

    They have a good unrestricted top end, too
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Congrats on the new E! I've only driven the 430 4matic so I am not familiar with the AMG, but it was such a nice car...
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    Thanks. And yeah, it does seem pretty nice. I was never won over by the W210, and I am still a little unimpressed by the rear end styling...but it seems to be very well made and is comfortable. It feels like an S class compared to my C43.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    WOW.........That's awesome ;)

    If you don't mind me asking fintail, how much did she set you back pal ?

    Is that make/model year pretty reliable ?

    What kind of stereo does it have ? does it have those "bladder" inflatable seats ?

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    28K...10K more than I paid for the C43.

    W210s in general are known to have quite a few bugs, especially the 6cyl models, but the AMG cars seem to perform better. There are enthusiast forums for these cars where people claim to have ran them to high mileages, and say they haven't had many problems, no more than any other car.

    It has a Bose 6 disc changer, and I think you can play an audio CD in the nav too. I don't know the stereo specs otherwise. And yes, it has the inflatable seats, as did the C43.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    fintail, it sounds like a great deal pal. Your a lucky guy and I'm happy for you. :)

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    Thanks.

    I am optimistic, but still a little scared of the electronic complexity. I bought the 48 month warranty though, so hopefully that will be long enough to sort out any issues. Other than the dead LCD pieces in the clock, everything works as new.

    I even have all my plans in order for making it the concours/driver I like to have. Tomorrow the wheels go in for polishing out the curb rash. Next month it will go in and have the little trunk dent removed. Maybe in Feb I will take it in and have the LED issue fixed (warranty claim). Then it should be pretty much immaculate.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Sounds like a good plan..... :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Mercedes chops the top off an S600 sedan

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=118926?tid=edmunds.il.ho- me.photopanel..3.*#10

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    Nah, that's a bit over the top for me. I like the idea of a 4 door convertible, but for the money...wow. And I'd hate to have to clean those wheels!
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    LOL, I actually like it. I don't like 4-door convertibles in general but I do like the S600 version. The chrysler 300 convertible is plain yuck !!!!! :lemon:

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    Depends on how nicely done it is. A Lincoln Continental convertible from the 60s or a MB Adenauer/300 from the 50s are both very elegant...and not to mention the phaetons from the 30s. But from what I recall of that Chrysler, it's a hack job.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Failing to notify EPA of emission-control problems is violation of Clean Air Act, feds say.

    http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061222/AUTO01/612220336/- 1148

    Rocky
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    I just noticed something the other day while filling up, inside the fuel filler door:

    "For driving over 100 mph + 4 psi". I was like what! Only a German would have such a sticker! I've driven 120 mph or so already though, rock solid at those speeds.

    I'm sure you having an AMG, which is well capable of passing 100 mph in a few eyeblinks, you have this sticker?

    M
This discussion has been closed.