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Comments
I've been trying to find a solution ever since I paid for the first replacement tires. The dealership told me that there were no smaller rim options to be had. I can't wait to correct him on that.
My question is does tire wear improve with the smaller rims? If so, how much?
Thanks in advance.
I've been saying for some time that the shocks the factory puts on the 5 are up to the challenge. I would recommend anybody that likes the car and intends to keep it to go and get some top of the line shocks. I bought the car fully aware of the issue.
The tires quality has been blamed many times on this forum for a lot of things and there are reports that new tires from a different manufacturer took care of the problems. At 35k it's time for new rubber. It is irrelevant now if the shocks killed your tires, or the tires were cheap to begin with.
I have my 5 for 16 mo now and it has 15k. The tires are at 50%. We drive it hard (when we do), loaded up and fast, so I'm not complaining, again, I anticipated the problem.
Sorry for the dealer experience. I've found the same attitude with other brands, too. It's a systemic problem.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I had managed to come across a good deal on a new set of Kumho KH25s on Ebay. 205/50/17 for, I believe, around $265. This was back in the Fall.
For the shocks, I picked up a set of Monroe (part number 5607). They don't show as being compatible with anything past 2008, but I can assure you they work. The suspension did not change between '08 and '09 or even 2010.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
What can I do? Tires suggestions? Any other suggestions? This is really getting to be frustrating and difficult to afford. Any help would be appreciated.
The REAL solution is to figure out HOW tghe tires are wearing and then what part of the suspension is causing the problem. It isn't like the car is so heavy you can't get a tire to hold up and even if you were throwing the car around there ae tires that would take that.
I have changed all the suspension and haven't had tire wear issues - fortunately and I do drive a bit aggressively in corners. It is WAY fun now!
Among other things you probably have camber issues.
Good luck,
Larry
2008, 5
What is the dealer telling you why the tires aren't lasting? And how are they wearing? Is it front AND rears?
Good luck,
Larry
My car is still under warranty and have raised quited the stink about how the tires were cupping severely after 40,000 km even after rotating them.
Car was driving loudly and there was a "thump, thumping" in the back.
Took it into the dealership and they said it needed new tires due to cupping. They said it needed an alignment, but that one had just been done.
They wanted me to buy new tires even though the alignment was off. That didn't make sense to me, seeing how the problem would just occur again. That sense of illogical thinking sent me online to research the car and the alignment problems. I called the dealership on this strange line of thinking and they told me that they they have been researching solutions about this for some time and a lot of people are having problems. Well, why didn't they tell me about this? They said that there was a "non-Mazda" part (adjustable camber kit) that would fix the problem and that it would cost me $600.
NO WAY was I going to pay for something Mazda should be addressing and fixing.
After a week of waiting, the dealership said they would fix it under warranty by putting in a new right adjustable camber kit and aligning it 2 times to get the numbers right.
I do still have to buy new tires, so in the same situation as you are, but the even sadder thing is there a lot of Mazda owners out there that this will happen to and won't know what to do.
Get it fixed, under warranty and raise a fuss!
Mazda Canada should step up and recall their cars to fix them.
Our front tires wear quite fast which makes sense since all the weight is over the front tires. However, the wear is even.
Currently we're running Kumho Ecsta ASXs. We might actually get around 20k or 25k out of these.
It still sucks as far as I'm concerned. With our other vehicles (2000 Tracker and a very disappointing '98 Malibu) we were getting >50k out of a set of tires.
We dumped the piece-of-trash Malibu for the Mazda. Except for the tire wear issue, it's been a big improvement.
In the rear, as the one post infers, there is only one alignment parameter that can be addressed by the dealership and I believe that is toe. If one needs/wants to address camber than yes, it is an aftermarket product that needs to be installed. $600.00 is OUTRAGEOUS! That is simply theft.
My friend and I did it in a VERY cramped work space with ice dripping on us without all the tools we needed in an afternoon. There is one bolt that Mazda installed that is too long that was a pain in the tush to get out and back in (I would have changed it except we were running out of time).
Doing one side also shows the complete ignorance of the Mazda dealer network. Both might as well be done at the same time. Also I would NOT install "factory" quality bushings of those camber adjusters. The factory quality rubber in Mazda bushings is JUNK. Go with the nylon/neoprene and find a COMPETENT shop to do the work.
As far as front wear. That does get a bit pricer however if they can't get the front end aligned (ask for and GET the print outs and then take them to someone who can read) there are "race" camber adjusters (top shock mounts) made in either Austrailia or New Zealand. When I was looking I wasn't aware of any made in Europe or North America - that may have changed.
I wasn't having tire wear issues and, didn't want any, so I got proactive and started chaning things out before that ball got rolling.
The bottom line gets to: how long are you going to keep the vehicle and what are the tires costing you? What is the cost effective path to follow?
I will say again, with the lower springs, Koni shocks, new bushings and better tires this things is just a hoot to drive. My wife wasn't wild about getting on and off freeways! Until............... she took the car in for the A/C repair and she got a chance to do some on ramp driving and now she is thrilled as well.
Ultimately you will probaly have to leave the very friendly and professional Mazda dealerships for service people who actually know and understand how to REPAIR a car, the dealerships ( I've used 2 now) are clueless.
Larry
No, I didn't notice any more difference from one piece or the other on tire wear. And no again, on fronts wearing faster...... there isn't that much weight up front to cause that much UNDUE tire wear.
The mileage you are getting is typical of the problem chassis and it is TOTALLY unacceptable.
Thank you very much for a very thorough, informative response.
If you are indeed wearing the insides (probably) or the outsides of the rear tires off then it is indeed a camber problem. I am ancient, so I already forget the price but, you can get a pair of ADJUSTABLE rear camber arms (I think for well less than $100.00) and SOLVE the problem (Mazda's possible legal repsonsibility not withstanding).
Somewhere on one of these threads is my Cliff notes version on how to do it. With the exception of one bolt that is too long and needs replaced it is no big deal. You all but only need a 14 and 17MM wrench and socket (with handle). And no, I didn't drop the "axle" (it isn't really an axle by any stretch). Loosened some bolts and all but forced the long bolt past its obstruction.
Good luck with Mazda!
Larry
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Anyway, I wanted to chip in and say that must not be the only fix needed. Tires wear out uniformly for some folks. For me it looked like that although I saw extensive wear inside on one tire. We have 24 k miles and tires will probably not reach 30k.
When the vehicle moves up and down, the wheels move sideways, in and out. On a McPherson there is some camber oscillation, too.
The new 2011 model has re-tuned suspension, to reduce lateral movement of passengers... blah blah blah. I wonder if the older (like the 2010 I have) suspension allows for too much travel and the tires become pencil erasers on the road, constantly moving in and out, just a little more than other vehicles on the road. If that is the case, it is design issue with the angle and length of components. It is un-fixable - not completely, anyway.
Swapping for "better" shocks is a patch in trying to arrest slight movements.
What is a "better" shock for this car? Really - Stiffer? Softer? What am I looking for, here?
Different springs looks like a more direct approach that Mazda is taking, too. This is an issue I am afraid to tackle, though. If I pick the wrong spring, the car will be off the road in sticky situation like a fast bumpy turn.
Maybe we can get 2011 springs and put them on our clunkers Mazda already did the math. I heard the 2011 models are not "as fun anymore" (Edmunds review)....
So, shocks suggestions anyone? and why you chose a particular one? And for how long have you been using them and do you see improvements?
Not completely sure what you mean. When suspension goes up and down, yes, you will see more negative camber on the compression stroke and less when extending. It is the nature of independent suspension.
It can get slightly worse as springs get tired and start sagging. It is possible the springs are too soft, but I really doubt it, not on a vehicle that handles as well as the mazda5 does.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The nature of the springs was just a speculation. This car does lean in turns (I love it). I mean how else would Mazda re-tune the suspension in the new model? Oh, wait, sway bars? Hmmmm.
So the camber issue is crystal clear. I bought the car fully aware of the issue and I tell everyone buying it to allow for it or budget for the fix.
But what causes the entire uniform early wear?
Shocks picks please!
I can't imagine the frame moving AFTER it leaves the factory unless it hits something. That the frame left the factory not straight I can imagine. Based on my research and, for the most part personal experience, there is NO suspension part on the 5 that can't be upgraded - it all exists somewhere and for a price.
H&R springs aren't too badly priced and will lower the car about .75" which I think makes it look a LOT better. A number of people have suggested that with the stiffer springs and stock shocks the rebound is too much. The only shock *I* found that was engineered for a lowered ride height is the Koni Sport (yellows). I have found the combination FANTASTIC (along with the better tires) The Yellows are also "adjustable". I like a firm ride - some don't. Koni shocks are not cheap! ALL of the suspension bushings are available in something other than rubber (firmer/stiffer). I also like what that did to the ride.
With enough knowledge, money and in the right hands, non-normal tire wear CAN be eliminated. I've upgraded a number of suspensions primarily on VW's and none of those handled as well as this 08 5 does right now.
There are people auto-crossing 5's.
Good luck!
Larry
Swapping for "better" shocks is a patch in trying to arrest slight movements.
If you want to arrest movement you are looking at stiffer springs. Stiffer shocks would be second. You can crank the Koni's up pretty good.
What is a "better" shock for this car? Really - Stiffer? Softer?
In practically everyone's mind it would be stiffer. Predicated on your thesis you would also want stiffer.
What am I looking for, here?
You tell us!
Different springs looks like a more direct approach that Mazda is taking, too. This is an issue I am afraid to tackle, though. If I pick the wrong spring, the car will be off the road in sticky situation like a fast bumpy turn.
How stiff a spring are you going to? Nothing that is engineered for the 5 and readily available is going to get into those kinds of terrirtories. How fast do you want to be travelling? I mean for that kind of event you'd be doing something like 55 or better (miles not kilometers per hour) on tight off ramps.
Maybe we can get 2011 springs and put them on our clunkers Mazda already did the math.
So has H&R, Eiback (affordable) and the Japanese after market - those are WAY expensive)
I heard the 2011 models are not "as fun anymore" (Edmunds review)....
So, shocks suggestions anyone? and why you chose a particular one? And for how long have you been using them and do you see improvements?
If you want REAL improvement it is Koni. I've been using them for a month or so and noticed HUGE improvements. I chose them because they are the best....... and about the only engineered shock for lowered 5's.
Larry
I'll look at Koni. I am not interested in lowering the car. It is low enough for what we do it. I do not want to stiffen or soften the ride either, at least I have to be honest and say I don't know that I do.
Why did you change the bushings? Other then the rear stabilizer bar (I thigk) sqeaking issue, I didn't think there was an issue.
Thanks!
Once under there and tearing things apart its just as easy to do them all at the same time.
Larry
How has it been so far? How is the wear?
I am about to do the same thing.
I had an alignment done on the car approx. 6mths ago and the tech said that the car was set to factory standards but when I got the car back I noticed when driving on a straight road the wheel was slightly off center. I took the car back to the dealer, they put the car on the rack and said that the alignment was dead on.
Now 6 mths later I am noticing cupping on the inside of the rear tires and a slight vibration at approx. 80km/hr and the vibration goes away as soon as I hit 100 km/hr.
I now have 25,000 km on the car.
Can someone tell me if this would be the dealers responsibility and what the best possibile repair would be?
So you now have a vibration. Did you rotate tires? You are supposed to.
Plus, the alignment specs for a Mazda 5 include quite a bit of camber - and that tends to wear tires irregularly. What your alignment tech should do is take out as much camber as he can.
I need to talk to my mechanic again re tires. He had some tires I'm going to try when I replace the Kumho's. Consumer's Reports also had ratings on tires that are worthwhile.
One thing my mechanic mentioned is it's really important to rotate these low-profile tires every 3k to 4k miles. I can't say I've been that good about doing it.
If I remember, I'll follow up here with more info from those two sources.
Went to tire dealer & put a 40k mileage set of tires on car June 2011. I've been rotating religiously, I go in June 2012 to have them rotated, I admit I am over the recommended mileage but hey I got it in there. The tire guy proceeds to tell me I need a new set exactly to the yr & onlu 23K miles on tires, ugh. He couldn't rotate said there was wear on the insides of the tires.
Am I to understand that I am going to have to replace my tires at a $585 cost (included the alignment) every year????!!?!?!?!?! This is ridiculous, is Mazda aware of this problem? Is there something wrong with my car? What can I do to get more mileage from my tires? (Newby here, haven't read all 19 pages of suggestions/complaints. This is insane!!!) I love my car & it's perfect for my family, but I have expenses & tires every yr isn't one of them!!!!
It's discouraging since the vehicle is built pretty well. CU Reports gives the Mazda 5 high ratings.
Last tires on our 2006 were Kumho. I was replacing tires 2 at a time. I actually got close to 30k maybe 35k on the first pair, but one of the second pair developed a bulge on the sidewall so I had to replace all four. I put on Hankooks this time. I guess they're rated at 40k.
My mechanic told me the only way to deal with these low profile tires is to rotate them religiously. He recommended I rotate them every oil change. So that's what I'm going to try. Typically I change oil every 4k to 6k. I run synthetic so I stretch it a bit.
I know nothing about cars. I got talked into spending $1,000 on new tires last winter because the guy said they would last a long time. The nylon chord is actually coming out of one of the tires after 35, 000 miles. I am wondering if someone will tell me what to do here. Will 16" wheels and tires be the end of my woes? (The tire salesmen said they are more durable.) Or do I just put 17" on again - and pay more - again. Or do I get rid of this car? p.s. the gas mileage isn't anywhere near what the dealership said it was going to be.
Good luck
I looked into replacing my Mazda 5's tires right after I replaced my second set within 18k. That's how I became involved with this thread.
It seems to me someone in this thread did find a way to replace the low profile with standard tires by swapping out the 17in rims with 16in or 15in (can't remember for sure). This was posted a year or more ago.
I think there was discussion about getting the rims from another Mazda model. BUT there was a concern about handling once you put tires with higher side walls on.
Here's a comment I had made in an earlier message.
" Last tires on our 2006 were Kumho. I was replacing tires 2 at a time. I actually got close to 30k maybe 35k on the first pair, but one of the second pair developed a bulge on the sidewall so I had to replace all four. I put on Hankooks this time. I guess they're rated at 40k.
"My mechanic told me the only way to deal with these low profile tires is to rotate them religiously. He recommended I rotate them every oil change. So that's what I'm going to try. Typically I change oil every 4k to 6k. I run synthetic so I stretch it a bit"
All I can suggest is to look back through this thread.
Here are some messages I was involved with.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0f3660/154!keywords=#MSG154
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0f3660/168!keywords=#MSG168
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0f3660/171!keywords=#MSG171
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0f3660/187!keywords=#MSG187
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0f3660/189!keywords=#MSG189
I don't know about more current model years. I guess you'd have to contact the dealer or check out the after-market sources.
Wheel link
Did they change the suspension? Has the MPG improved? Did they change tire size? How about that weird noise I hear when backing up or that boing sound my car makes (seems to be of no surprise to the Dealership when I mention it) as I make sharp turns, note this is nothing new I have heard this sound since I bought the car new. Not always though. I just want to know is it worth purchasing a newer model if nothing really has changed.
We, however, were never advised by the dealer to replace shocks or struts. My personal impression is the dealer's mechanics might have been guessing at your problem. I know it's not fair to second guess the mechanic, but I've done enough car repairs to know sometimes things are not what they seem.
All I personally can recommend is considering the possibility you might have a lemon. I know that certainly is no comfort at all. I hope someone else reads your question and has a solution to offer.
If you have a lemon, sometimes a dealer can get some support from the manufacturer. Sometimes. I have a friend who had a really, really bad experience with GM. He created enough of an issue re his problem he received a new transmission only to have that one fail prematurely. BTW, now he and his wife drive a Kia and a Nissan.
On a side note, I've consulted Consumer Reports whenever I purchase a vehicle. It's worked well for me. So I would recommend checking out their rating for the '09 Mazda 5. If they show suspension as a weakness for that model, it might help build a case re the "lemon" status I mentioned.
Otherwise, I strongly recommend you avoid any make/model that uses low-profile tires. They might look cool, but they suck re durability.
Good luck.
Since I've started rotating at every oil change, I'm also getting around 30k on a set of tires. When we first started driving the 5, we got something like 15k. And we weren't driving like Andretti. BUT I must say the vehicle certainly makes you feel like you could. Tight and responsive. Gotta love it.
Please let us know what your experience is with the 16" rims. Someone also suggested using some Mazda 3 14" (I think) rims. No doubt a person has to give up the tight feel due to higher sidewalls, but maybe a person could get closer to the old-style mileage of 50-60k.
I've just replaced a set of Goodyear Eagle RS-A's after 54,000 miles. They would have been good for a little bit longer but I damaged one in a pothole so decided to put on a new set. When I bought them I did quite a bit of research into finding something quiet, and they were an improvement over the OEM tires.
This time around I did some more research and ended up buying a set of Milestar MS932's and I'm really astonished at how much quieter the car is riding. I'll post in due course about how they seem to wear.
My baby is 2008 Mazda5 Touring.