Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

kens · November 2003

Ed,

Try the center position. It's actually, the preferred position since it's safer in case of a side impact.

I don't have the center armrest in my Forester, but I don't think that would be a problem. The child seat seatback angles outward so it should clear the armrest.

Also, in the case of my Britax, the back conveniently tapers a bit towards the top so it fits snugly between the bolsters of the front seats.

Ken

ballistic · November 2003

OK, but if you can independently raise/lower both the front and the back of the seat base, then wouldn't raising both to the max have roughly the same effect as raising the single adjuster on 2nd-gen Foresters?

I really wish Subaru had not switched to the single adjustment instead of the two. I'd like to tilt my seat base up at the front edge to get more knee support.

ateixeira · November 2003

JB: yes, but it only moves the seat base, not the seat back. So that doesn't give any more room for the child seat.

The new ratcheting mechanism raises the entire seat, doesn't it?

Any how, the infant carriers usually only go up to 20 or 22 lbs, so for us it was only a very short while since we had two kids (big and bigger). We then used a regular child seat in the rear-facing position, until they turned 1.

-juice

nygreg · November 2003

one spot for an infant. Center-rear position. Some will place a rolled towel under the base to tilt the seat slightly depending on the car seat.

Greg

ateixeira · November 2003

While I agree that is the preferred spot, keep something in mind - a relaxed driver is the most important "safety feature" you can have.

So if mommy rides in the back and keeps the baby calm vs. mom up front and a screaming baby, then I'd pick the former. If Ed drives around relaxed then they're safer overall.

With 2 kids, the seats fit better in each of the side positions, so we use those. Also, the booster my bigger kid is in requires a shoulder belt, so in that case she has to be on the side.

-juice

ballistic · November 2003

JB: yes, but it only moves the seat base, not the seat back. So that doesn't give any more room for the child seat. The new ratcheting mechanism raises the entire seat, doesn't it?

I didn't realize the 1st-gen adjuster moved only the base cushion without at the same time moving the entire seat. Even so, if you raise the entire base cushion vertically, then you also ought to be able to move the entire seat forward a notch or two while retaining the same driver legroom. That still ought to gain a bit of space behind the seat.
The 2nd-gen Forester vertical adjustment isn't a ratchet. It's a rotary knob. I just wish there were two; one for raising/lowering the front edge and another for the rear. Or else one for raising/lowering the entire seat, plus some sort of simple cam or lever for altering the tilt. Lacking a tight lap belt, I find myself sliding forward, and before long my slouching posture translates to back discomfort.

subearu · November 2003

With one child, we had the reverse facing infant seat in the center position. It did require me to adjust the tilt up a bit on my seat, but it fit. Once she moved to a forward facing seat, I was able to 'relax' a bit more in my seat. It wasn't bad though.

Now with 2 kids, one in a forward facing, the other in a rear-facing infant carrier, we were only left with one option. Put the forward facing behind my seat and the rear facing carrier behind the passenger seat. That allow you to see the infant better if needed (use with one of those mirrors you mount on the rear seat).

The only drawback is that my 2yo sitting behind me now likes to kick her feet. Must do something before the winter to protect the seat back...

If I wait long enough, perhaps we'll be out of the rear facing seat when I get that XT MT ;-)

-Brian

xccoachlou · November 2003

It's a new web browser I am trying out at home. Just check out the web page they were visiting when they made their product page - http://www.mozilla.org/frontpage/productShotFirebird.jpg

Someone at Firebird likes Subarus and the WRX STi

- Lou

grahampeters · November 2003

G'day

This should be second nature for a Papa Bear. If the cub kicks the seat back, stop car, leap out and raise both fore-paws high in the air and scream with rage. Cub will only do it once.

Cheers

Graham (with practical experience of this problem)

subearu · November 2003

Graham - I've tried that, but she just growls back at me. She thinks we're playing "what does a bear say?".

-Brian

ateixeira · November 2003

JB: true, the front tilt adjustment does allow me to have more thigh support.

In fact, I like the position enough that I modified my Miata's seat track, putting spacers under the front for similar thigh support. Most cushions are too low or too short, or both.

Zero tolerance for seat kicking here. She did it once, and not again.

Didn't the 2000 Outback offer built-in booster seats? They were rare, maybe it was another year, but I'm sure they existed. That would be cool, actually. Volvo offers two on the V70, one in the middle seat of the XC90.

-juice

ballistic · November 2003

I modified my Miata's seat track, putting spacers under the front for similar thigh support. Most cushions are too low or too short, or both.

Haven't looked at the seat/track mount yet on the XT, but I hope to perform a similar modification when time allows. I also wish there was some way to move the accelerator forward an inch or two. If I set the seat where I can put the clutch all the way down, the throttle is about 2" too close. Set the seat for a good throttle distance, and depressing the clutch is a long stretch. <sigh>

ateixeira · November 2003

My Forester's seat track angles down at the front, it would be very hard to modify. At least it would have to be a custom job.

-juice

lite1 · November 2003

Have silver Forrester and the black decal really sticks out. Can one just peel it off carefully? Concerned about leaving an ugly adhesive mark on the roof rack rail. Any advice? Edward (S. Oregon)

ateixeira · November 2003

You can probably remove the sticky residue with WD40, just wash the area thoroughly afterwards.

-juice

bkaiser1 · November 2003

I've peeled the warning stickers off the racks from my Outback and WRX -- they came right off with nothing left behind. I did this in the summer with the sun blazing down on it, though. It may be difficult to peel if it's not hot outside. If it doesn't feel like it's going to come right off, get a hairdryer and heat up a little.

Brian

fryingbologna · November 2003

Happened to me during that cold snap as well, subkid! I had to gently pry the door open with one of my keys - desperation dictated this unusual and stupid way of getting fuel into the Forester.

ballistic · November 2003

Maybe we need to add a 12-volt heat gun to our kit of winter gear...

leo2633 · November 2003

I've used my rechargeable Mag-Lite as an emergency defroster for doors and key holes. That 30,000 candlepower generates a LOT of heat at the lens!

Len

russski · November 2003

For all those with Defroster Problems
I'm so sorry for you, guys :-)

hayduke01 · November 2003

Many years ago the locks on my Fiat X 1/9 iced up. I went to a nearby drug store and bought a lighter, then heated the key.

It worked.

That and my Forester (23 years later)are the top two cars I've had when it comes to fun.

Gotta say the Forester beats 'em all on reliability, not just the Fiat (that would be a rather low standard).

subkid · November 2003

russski,

think freezing next Jan/Feb time frame when you leave your car running while parked in the shopping centre parking lot, just to be able to run the AC.

)

on the funny note, when we got our first snow/frost morning this year, leaving a house I grabbed the can of key lock de-icer, just to find out that it wasn't needed

). I used - the remote.

K

njswamplands · November 2003

man that was a fun car

subearu · November 2003

IIRC, most, if not all, modern vehicles that have A/C have autoshutoff circuits for when the temperature is below freezing to prevent damage to the compressor. So, even with the defrost on AND it's below 32F/0C, the only cold air you'll get from your HVAC is from the outside air.

-Brian

subkid · November 2003

subearu,
I was hoping somebody would confirm that. There is a such note in manual, but only for the vehicles with auto climate control, not for the X model (manual climate).

Is there somewhere a place where that's confirmed?
That would pretty much solve the problem with the auto AC on defrost.

K

russski · November 2003

Subkid:

Back when I lived in Russia, it was so bloody cold that "fluid" in radiator was freezing to ice.
To start the car we had to use a blow torch (it was a part of recovery kit) to defrost a radiator "fluid".
Of course today I would think they have no problems like that because they use proper antifreeze.
Must admit - never had problems with aircon - did not know about it existence. :-)

So this topic realy brought back memories :-)

dnestr · November 2003

to use a brake fluid. Just dip a key in brake fluid reservoir and carefully put one into the lock. The only problem is to open a hood, but most of vehicles afford to do it through a front grille by a thin bar . Hope it helps if no other chance to defrost.

ateixeira · November 2003

With keyless entry, who cares? It's wonderful not to have to deal with it any more.

My '91 Escort froze up all the time. I'd be holding my thumb on the lock for 5 minutes some times. What a pain!

-juice

bpi · November 2003

1. I understand you can earn up to $500 a year. Is it each calender year or every 12 months from the time you open the account?
2. Is there an expiration date attached to each $100 SubaruBucks certificate that they mail you?
3. Are there other limits?
4. What happens when you pay for a $70 purchase with $100 in SubaruBucks? Do you get $30 back in the form of another certificate?

bsvoller · November 2003

1. 12 months, but I'm not sure if it's from when you open the account, or when you start using the card. Ours rolls over in October.
2. Yes. They're good for 4 years from the month of issue.
3. I believe there's a limit of $2000 in 4 years.
4. There are no refunds. You have to use them in $100 increments.

We use ours for parts, accessories and service. We also got a few hundred off our car purchase, but that was the old program, which didn't allow application of credits towards anything else.

It's a great program - we find that it substantially lowers our cost of ownership, and is a major plus vs. other brands.

I sure wish Mazda had a comparable program...

-brianV

c_hunter · November 2003

1. don't know
2. yes, they are good for 4 years from date of issue
3. probably
4. you'd forfeit the $30

Generally, I plan it so I buy parts/accesories in approximately $100 increments. Last time around, I sent in a $100 coupon and paid $15 on my credit card for a $115 parts order.

Craig

bpi · November 2003

Thanks for the answers. Still, how does the "$2,000 in 4 years" limit work, considering there's already an annual limit of $500?

hypov · November 2003

1. Max. $500 can be accumulated each 12 months cycle. The anniversay of each cycle is calculated from the date of your account inception/open date.

$2000 in 4yrs limit is actually saying, you got 4 years to spend it, if you did accumulate upto $2000. Otherwise, spend what you have accumulated before they expire.

-Dave

hayduke01 · November 2003

I've seen it mentioned many times that all the tires have to be within 1/4" in diameter, otherwise we risk damage to the drivetrain. Easy enough to understand and follow.

But how do I know if my unused spare will be within that 1/4" of the other tires?

I currently have 26k miles on the original tires, and have never used the spare. Three of the four originals are decent, but the right front has severe wear on the outside edge.

Would like to be able to use the spare, but don't want to risk mechanical damage.

On the other three tires the wear bars (think that's the right term) are still intact.

Will appreciate any info there.

hypov · November 2003

and 26k already on the existing tires, you might be beyond the 1/4" circumference tolerance.

-Dave

bluesubie · November 2003

I think that any spare should only be used temporarily for the reason you mentioned.
Keeping it on long-term could damage the diffs, unless you get it shaved down to the same size as the other tires.

-Dennis

c_hunter · November 2003

In Outbacks with the compact spare, the spare O.D. is significantly smaller than the regular tire. But, it's only supposed to be used temporarily -- less than 50 miles if I remember right.

Craig

ateixeira · November 2003

For temporary use, it would be fine.

-juice

lark6 · November 2003

Okay then, there's a "Suggestion for Subaru": mount the spare on the same wheel as the other four (alloy or steel) and require that it worked into the rotation. Using a full-sized spare as a temporary and buying 4 when only one went flat, just to stave off products liability lawyers, is for the birds.

Ed

once_for_all · November 2003

Geolanders, bring the spare into service as a "new" tire when the OEMs wear out, and put your best tire of the 4 worn ones on the steel rim for the spare. No sense in wasting a perfectly good, full size spare. Unfortunately, Subaru doesn't give you a nice alloy for rotating in with the others. Probably not the best idea anyway, it would keep the tires less consistent in diameter.

John

bsvoller · November 2003

The Forester spare is on the same size wheel as the other four, it's just a steely instead of alloy. It would be nice to have a matching rim, I agree, but I doubt I'd actually use it much.

Here's why. It's not clear to me that you could get 5 tires on a rotation and keep them within 2/32 of each other in diameter (that's what 1/4" in circumference works out to, roughly). With one tire outside of wear but in the rotation, wouldn't you have to rotate awful frequently ?

I like having a full-size spare because we tow. But it is a spare, and we only use it for real emergencies, when we have a tire go down while towing, or cut a sidewall and can't use fix-a-flat to get us to the nearest service station.

The reality is, we don't expect to use it ever, knock on wood. Fix-a-flat is safe to use for short time periods, just wash it out when you get the tire repaired. If you lose a tire to damage beyond repair, you can buy 3, swap the spare onto a matching rim, and keep one of the old ones as your new spare.

My question is, "Why does Subaru have such onerous tire size requirements ?" I've talked to buddies who drive Audi Quattro's, and there's no such requirement that they're aware of.

-brianV

paisan · November 2003

Well, we all know how good audi quality is...

I have the same requirement on my Trooper when running in AWD mode, as do most other AWD vehicles, it may be burried deep inside the manual however...

-mike

PS: Tire roations are supposed to be ever 5K miles.

lark6 · November 2003

Funny you mention Audis, brianV. I was having a conversation week before last with a guy who owns an allroad. I still had my summer Michelin Pilot Sport A/S on the car; he uses them on the allroad year-round. He told me he had a flat recently and replaced just one tire, and after ~ 2500 miles could detect no ill effects.

I know there's no scientific or or technical merit in that statement, but I'm just sayin'. ;-)

Ed

boba6 · November 2003

Hayduke,
There was a lot of discussion on this subject when I asked a similar question in May after getting a nail in one of my sidewalls at 18K. Fortunately, I found a shop that would repair it, but the lesson I left with is that the "full size spare" should be used only as long as needed to resolve the "four equal tires" problem; treat it sort of like a better doughnut. There will be differences, but I would expect that after running 4 tires for 10K or so, the "spare" won't be within 1/4". I probably would have gone the route of shaving the spare down on the original rim, and just bought a cheap tire as a spare, but I had lots of tread left on the originals. If the other 3 are close to done, it might make more sense to get four. If you want to read all that was said then, my original post was # 10648. Good luck.

BTW, why are you wearing the outside of one? Have you checked the alignment?

Bob

ateixeira · November 2003

It's a trade-off between a fast acting AWD and a tolerance of tire circumference variation.

I'll take the better AWD, personally. Tires are cheap, all things considered.

Note: on the Forester L and X models, the spare matches.

-juice

hayduke01 · November 2003

for all the ideas on the lazy spare, and for reminding me of the difference between diameter and circumfrence.

I'm accepting that rather than find a way to use the spare as something other than a spare, it's time to start thinking about my next set of tires. What was the Dunlop model that so many of you liked?

As for why the wear on the right front outside, I don't know. I've had all the scheduled oil changes and services done by the dealer, so the alignment would have been done on schedule, though I don't remember when. I'm due for another oil change now, so I'll get it checked out then.

lark6 · November 2003

hayduke: I run Dunlop SP Sport 5000s, in the OEM size 215/60-16, on my '00 S. I put them back on for the winter last weekend.

juice: Don't rub it in. I didn't consider the ramifications of not getting my spare on the same wheel when choosing the S and its rear LSD, 4-wheel discs and AWP. :-P

Ed

paisan · November 2003

I think they are talking long-term effects like wheel bearings. You'll see em fail after 50K of in-proper sizing.

-mike

ateixeira · November 2003

My spare doesn't match either, Ed. At least I have open differentials! ;-)

-juice

bsvoller · November 2003

-hayduke: I run the Dunlop SP Sport A2's in the stock 215/60R16 size, and I like 'em. Not as aggressive in the corners as the 5000's perhaps, but probably better in the snow. Unbelievable wet traction, not to mention dry. Stick like glue. For my purposes, a better all-round tire, since I don't have dedicated winter tires. Price was right too - got mine at Discount Tire for < $100 each balanced and installed.

They are bit noisier than I'd like on some road surfaces, but nothing I can't live with at 10k miles. You know they're there, but it's not intrusive. Wear seems very even, and wear rate reasonable. UTQG is 420/ Traction AA / Temp A. Stiffer sidewall than the stock Geolanders on my '01 S+, and noticeably more rolling resistance as well. Gas mileage hasn't suffered much though.

I wrote up a lengthy review of snow performance last winter - I've had them on for one year. I was pleased with their performance last winter, but they were essentially new. We'll see how they do now that they're down some.

-ed: I guess I did consider the ramifications at least some, and gladly chose the rear LSD, disks, AWP, etc you mention. We sprang for the Premium package to get the moonroof and side air bags as well, so it was a no-brainer for us. I prolly shouldn't jinx myself, but I haven't actually had cause to use a spare in 15 years... We absolutely love the moonroof, and the side air bags were more important to us than any issues regarding the spare. YMMV, of course.

Hope this helps,

-brianV

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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