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Should cell phone drivers be singled out?

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Comments

  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    You are truly blessed. For the rest of us whose wive's view the car as just another venue for stimulating conversation about fashion, cuisine and soccer gossip, we'll just have to grin, nod, and do our best to stay safe on the road.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    image

    "Ray LaHood, the nation's crazy paranoid uncle, went on another anti-talking-in-cars rant on NPR Tuesday that was very much the same line he always walks: "My cause is to get people to put their cellphone in the glove compartment."

    Ray LaHood: Cops Can Use Cell Phones While Driving, "they are trained to" (Inside Line)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I don' buy it.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    watch for a resurgence in the popularity of CB RADIOS with teenagers now that they aren't allowed to use cellfones in vehicles.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Nah, they'll just grab their Kindle.

    Unreal. And scroll down to the bottom for the video of the guy texting in traffic using both hands. While on his motorcycle!

    Man reads book, Kindle, answers phone ... while driving (MSNBC)
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Follow the money. LaHood and Obama could ask Congress for legislation banning cell phone use in moving vehicles (except for 911) in US. But, there is too much revenue that cell phone providers make and they would not stand for it. Technology and software could readily be created/implemented to block all calls except 911. LaHood is CORRECT. There is no call so important, except 911, that cannot be made before or after a vehicle trip. If one just, just cannot wait to make a call while in vehicle, find safe and Legal place, park vehicle, make call. Very simple. Drivers using cell phones are just plain selfish and irresponsible.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Cell phone service providers will lose revenue and will fight all the way DOT and LaHood wanting to shut off cell phones in moving vehicles.

    These service providers say there are other distractions besides drivers using cell phones. Are they trying to justify their possible loss of revenue by claiming other distractions are of equal magnitude? Really!!

    Cell tower technology/software has always been able to track signal strength and possible movement of a cell phone user. For cells in vehicles, this is necessary to know probable direction of movement and then which will be "Next" cell tower to take control of the call in progress. Given all of this, it is not difficult to envision proper hardware/software that would, with brief recorded warning first given, to terminate the call. Of course, 911 calls would be exempt from this termination.

    People screaming about their so-called rights to make calls while driving forget that driving is a priviledge, not a right, and that there are already many laws and regulations drivers must obey and conform to while operating a motor vehicle. The most prominent of these laws regulating JUST WHAT a driver can do in a vehicle pertains to alcohol. Driving with open beer, wine, liquor containers in vehicles is prohibited. Driving impaired with alcohol level above 0,08 is prohibited.

    And, there have been reputable organizations that have conducted driving tests of drivers using cell phones and drivers impaired by alcohol. Cell phone drivers many times fare worse than drunk drivers with regard to concentration and reaction time.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    edited December 2010
    It seems to me that drivers using cell phones when driving are neither irresponsible nor selfish, for the most part.
    So I think it's inaccurate and inappropriate and alarmist to imply that talking on a cellfone while driving is by definition selfish or irresponsible or dangerous.

    it appears to me that it is those who are trying to ban cellfone use who are being selfish. To me it appears to be a typical attitude of projecting more laws, more taxes, more rules, always onto "the other guy": that awful person who makes more $ than me, or drives a better car, the guy who is so busy that the ONLY time he has to talk on the phone is while he is in the car.

    hooray that those who don't live in nanny-states remain free to talk & drive at the same time!
    (one local state prohibits all cellfone use by teenage drivers - not sure if that includes 19 year olds however.)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited December 2010
    "Sending for information from your smartphone is technically banned, but recalling information from a built-in hard-drive is not.

    What's the difference? "

    Is Using an iPhone's Nav The Same As Texting? (Inside Line)

    image
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "At least 19 percent of drivers admit to accessing the Internet while behind the wheel, according to a disturbing new survey by insurer State Farm.

    The survey found that the top five Web-activities that drivers engage in are: finding/reading driving directions, reading e-mail, looking up/referencing specific information of immediate interest, looking at/reading social networking sites such as Facebook and Twitter and composing/sending e-mail."

    New Survey Finds Alarming Number of Drivers Using Internet Behind Wheel (Inside Line)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Heck, my latest German rental car had on-board internet viewable through the nav screen, I am pretty sure it could be accessed while in motion too.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited March 2011
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    What the h---? Not keen on talking on cell while driving, but Karl was a far more distracted driver than the drivers shown in his rear view mirror. He "actually" admitted he shot these pictures while driving. That is reckless.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    The roads might be safer if folks would concentrate more on their own driving instead of getting self-righteous about others' driving.

    There's nothing necessarily reckless about taking a cellfone photo while driving - or texting while driving.

    But for example, sending a text message or taking a photo or talking on the phone while driving would indeed be reckless if one did it in reverse at 60 mph,
    or during 4 wheel drift on a highway entrance ramp.
    (I know a guy whose new car testdrives generally include the latter.)
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,948
    You're kidding...right? It's dangerous, not reckless & both should be outlawed...period! And it's only about safe driving...period...I don't give a crap what you do but it's all the other innocent folks who could get hurt by your actions that worries me! And just remember, driving is not a "right"...but a "priviledge"...remember that!!! :(

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    "There's nothing necessarily reckless about taking a cellfone photo while driving - or texting while driving."

    Congratulations! You win the contest for stupidest thing I've ever heard.

    There's nothing reckless about texting while driving? So, you see nothing reckless about taking your eyes off the road AND hands your off the wheel simultaneously while surrounded by potential innocent victims? I'd mention taking your mind off the primary task, DRIVING, but that would assume the texter actually had cognitive abilities...
  • starrow68starrow68 Member Posts: 1,142
    http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811451.pdf

    Since I hadn't noticed this info for a couple years it was good news that the roads aren't more
    risky than in past years. Remembering back to "I hate SUV's, why don't ....", it seems this is
    the trend that was predicted at the time. With the fleet aging during this period and hope
    that the economy will pick up and turn some of those older rides over in the next few years,
    the 2012 mandate for ESC could be even more help in the next decade. Enjoy your ride.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited April 2011
    " Congratulations! You win the contest for stupidest thing I've ever heard"

    I couldn't agree with you any more!

    Texting while driving should be a FELONY!

    He didn't really say that, did he?

    As far as doing dumb or reckless things on test drives, if anyone pulled something like that with me they would have been ordered to pull the car over and their driving would have been DONE!
  • ClairesClaires Member Posts: 1,222
    ... via HOST kcram:

    TOMS RIVER, N.J. — A southern New Jersey woman was injured when she crashed her car into a tree while calling police to report an erratic driver.

    http://www.dailyjournal.net/view/story/c9a58cb18c934275abb34c5777f84b14/NJ--Erra- tic-Driver-Crash/

    MODERATOR

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited April 2011
    Michigan: Police Search Cell Phones During Traffic Stops
    ACLU seeks information on Michigan program that allows cops to download information from smart phones belonging to stopped motorists.

    CelleBriteThe Michigan State Police have a high-tech mobile forensics device that can be used to extract information from cell phones belonging to motorists stopped for minor traffic violations. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Michigan last Wednesday demanded that state officials stop stonewalling freedom of information requests for information on the program.

    A US Department of Justice test of the CelleBrite UFED used by Michigan police found the device could grab all of the photos and video off of an iPhone within one-and-a-half minutes. The device works with 3000 different phone models and can even defeat password protections.

    "Complete extraction of existing, hidden, and deleted phone data, including call history, text messages, contacts, images, and geotags," a CelleBrite brochure explains regarding the device's capabilities. "The Physical Analyzer allows visualization of both existing and deleted locations on Google Earth. In addition, location information from GPS devices and image geotags can be mapped on Google Maps."

    The ACLU is concerned that these powerful capabilities are being quietly used to bypass Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable searches.


    http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/34/3458.asp

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20055431-1.html
  • hammerheadhammerhead Member Posts: 907
    "You can't be taken advantage of without your permission."

    Just say no.
  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    Congress has decided that the Constitution doesn't matter, so why should local cops honor it? This is a clear-cut violation of the fourth amendment.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Honk if you love Jesus. Text if you want to meet him."
  • vinnynyvinnyny Member Posts: 764
    I want to meet him! Just not for the next thirty years or so...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Not an exact quote but "cell phone use is not more dangerous than drunk driving. Not even close."

    Consumer Wants Vs. What's Good for Consumer (AutoObserver)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I can believe it. Phone yapping pisses me off and is a danger, but it's not creating carnage out there - as I swear half the people on the road around here sometimes have a phone to their ear.

    Texting on the other hand...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    The issue is cell phone driving is not just another form of distracted driving. Even my wife's amazed at the number of avoidance maneuvers I had to do on the road when she is in the car with me as I have been cut off and side swiped by people on the phone or texting.

    Or people going 40 in the left lane on a 55 mph road because they are not really paying attention. This type of stupidity creates other issues as drivers attempt to pass on the right.

    There are a number of drivers that went home safely because I was watching their backs by actually driving my vehicle. Although those jerks don't know it they have me to thank.

    So while I have not been in this thread in a while my stance hasn't changed. Drivers who hold the phone to their ear or text, or whatever, should be dealt with in a heavy headed way.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    many times i've watched from the passenger seat or adjacent vehicle as a driver does seemingly/impossibly delicate things one handed while they drive, never taking their eyes off the road.

    even in recent weeks i've watched plenty of adult drivers send text messages with one hand in violation of civil statute! the horror! should i report them to the police? i'm not shy about reporting dangerous drivers . today I had to call 911 due to highway incident. a ladder fell off the back of an F250 diesel driven by a maniac tailgating zigzagging driver. either that or that same driver saw or caused the ladder to fall off another truck - so I reported it after helping all the cars stop in time, by braking early from looking so much further ahead than the other drivers. it appeared that no cellphones were involved with this incident except for everyone calling 911 afterwards.

    in recent years i don't touch the phone whatsoever while driving except rarely when my child is counting on me for example. The iphone is really difficult to dial while driving for me - not enough dexterity/skill. but i understand that there are people with better dexterity and skill that they can dial a phone or text a message just fine *while driving*.

    my old LG phone was very ergonomic to position on steering wheel, but iphone is not. i suppose i'll have to use a 35mm camera next time I want to take photos while driving - it's still legal to take a 35mm photo while driving isn't it? (if not, then write your legislators now, nanny-state proponents !!!!)

    in 2005, the early days of "unlimited text messages" I drove cross-country and took 50 or 100 cellfone photos along the way, and back. can anyone be more superlative than 'stupidest thing ever' such as above - was that MORE stupid than the stupidest thing ever? I got really good at timing it so I could send perfectly photos of the interstate-sign of interest, or the bizarre swarms of locust-like beetles in nevada.

    I'll suppose I may reconsider my plans to take 10 rolls of 36 exposure verichrome-pan photos using a zoom-lens while driving at interstate speeds on my next long drive. :|

    But next, could the nanny-statists here write their congresspeople and ask to make it illegal for drivers to practice intricate nasal hygiene while driving?
    [except in NH of course, where we will continue to "pick free or die".]
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    How many people take a picture with a 35mm vs how many people do you observe using the cell phone while driving?

    The number of people on the phone, swerving, slowing down/speeding up, hitting locomotives, has been a problem for years.

    My new car has bluetooth so I don't even have to touch the phone or take my hands off the wheel to answer a call, yet I avoid having anything other than cursory conversations.

    Hopefully as we get more experience in life we *should* grow smarter and understand why we should focus on driving, but sadly there seems to be missing some common sense.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    So, we are moving in the right direction to get the driver-cell talker issue resolved.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    At least they recognize the obvious.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    The NTSB didn't propose it. They recommended it. But since it's a states' rights issues, they'll have to get Congress to tie it into highway funding bills.

    I'm all in favor of hands' free cell phone use but banning use totally should also include banning eating, reading, talking to passengers, adjusting the radio, scrolling through media players, reaching into the back seat to whack the kids, et al.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    While you're at it, ban looking into the rear view mirror to check traffic.

    I wouldn't give up adjusting my radio I can do it without taking my hands off the steering wheel. I agree in principal on what you are saying, but realistically drinking coffee, picking a random example, while driving is not in the same boat as texting or holding the cell phone to your ear and conversing.

    It's not the coffee drinkers I have assiduiously avoided the last few years, it's the texters and conversers.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    I'm all in favor of hands' free cell phone use but banning use totally should also include banning eating, reading, talking to passengers, adjusting the radio, scrolling through media players, reaching into the back seat to whack the kids, et al.

    Hands-free is not the solution to the problem of the driver's brain being pre-occupied with conversation rather than OPERATING a motor vehicle.

    There are all kinds of eating and distraction possibilities. Eating a large dripping cheeseburger and grabbing a fry from a center console is a huge distraction compared to merely grabbing a small cookie from cupholder in center console with right hand.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Hands-free is not the solution to the problem of the driver's brain being pre-occupied with conversation rather than OPERATING a motor vehicle.

    So should we also ban talking to a passenger in the car as well? After all, the conversation is the problem - right??

    Basically just about everything we do other than drive is a distraction. I agree texting should be banned. But I personally feel that hands free use isn't anymore distracting than radio/music player use or dealing with children in the back seat while driving.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,948
    About an hour ago, arrow turns green & the guy don't move...just sits there. Finally tap the horn and the guys pulls away at like 5 mpg's. Guys behind me are honking at me like it's my fault. See as I pass the guy is holding his cell and looking down while crawling down a major through fare a real a--hole who just didn't get it and obviously can't do two things at once.

    Just ban it all...talking, texting, whatever and do the task at hand...driving! If one has to talk, then bluetooth all the way and the way it looks, it'll be standard on most cars within a few years anyways.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Let's try to be real, I know it's difficult. See post above, therein is the real issue.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Just playing devil's advocate.

    Distracted driving is an issue and somewhere there is a happy medium. If cell phone use while driving is banned, then what comes next?

    BTW, I know a couple of folks who shouldn't be talking to their passengers while driving so maybe it's not such a bad idea. :)
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Washington Post had a very good article on cell phone ban written by AP. Here is link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/federal-government/drivers-using-hands-fr- ee-phones-cant-tune-out-conversations-to-focus-on-road-studies-find/2011/12/15/g- IQAApWUvO_story_1.html

    Some good research cited is that cell phone use by driver uses up an amount of brain power that SHOULD otherwise be used for operating the motor vehicle. Article cites driving tests were an MRI is hooked up to record brain activity.

    Tests show that 37 percent of brain power of a driver is used for the cell conversation and is thus lost to the primary function of operating a motor vehicle.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    There is a concept called situational awareness, which discusses the differences between talking to passengers and talking on the phone. What you as a driver are responsible for is keeping your brain engaged for proper vehicle operation.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    There is a lot of common sense information in that article.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I am not a fan of people talking on cell phones while driving. I see them too often not paying attention to the light when it changes to green. However, the methods they are suggesting are invasive. But what's new when you cannot even fly without being x-rayed or groped or both?

    With very little evidence, the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration claims that there were some 3,092 roadway fatalities last year that involved distracted drivers. Americans ought to totally reject Hersman's agenda. It's the camel's nose into the tent. Down the road, we might expect mandates against talking to passengers while driving or putting on lipstick. They may even mandate the shutdown of drive-in restaurants as a contributory factor to driver distraction through eating while driving. You say, "Come on, Williams, you're paranoid.

    C.S. Lewis warned us about people like Hersman, saying: "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."


    http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2011/12/28/gullible_americans
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    This is the old, excuse my crudeness, picking my nose is has exactly the same loss of brainpower as texting. I reject that. Other than drunk driving, which obviously should be illegal, you can't legistlate everything. But because of the dangers of texting and talking on the phone (most so when the phone is held to the head), law enforcement should provide incentives to cut down on this, like huge fines.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited December 2011
    I am not disagreeing with you on the subject of cell phone use and especially texting. I think it best left to the states as they are the ones to enforce the laws. In CA we have a cell phone to head law and I see just as many people using their cell phones as ever. If not more. I don't think the laws work. People are going to be distracted for whatever reason. Erratic driving behavior should be ticketed whether you are drinking a Starbucks or Texting your girlfriend.

    I am sure Williams was referring to the Feds sticking their noses into every aspect of our lives.

    For cities with budget shortfalls they could put on a campaign with $500 fines for cell phone use while driving. Make it a local ordinance with a sign at each end of town. I am sure there are devices that you can aim at a driver that detects a Cell signal.
    Zap you have been pegged, $$Cha $ching. :shades:
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Do not think that a drinking coffee uses anywhere near the brainpower as talking and driving. Tests show 37 percent loss of brain while talking and trying to drive. They should do tests, mris, whatever, to find how much brain is lost taking a drink of coffee.
  • hoosiergrandadhoosiergrandad Member Posts: 96
    "I am sure there are devices that you can aim at a driver that detects a Cell signal. "

    If so, how long will it be until someone markets a "detector detector"?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I wouldn't trust our well paid highly accountable LEO professionals to operate such a device, should it ever exist. How would it distinguish a device in use by a passenger vs driver?

    "Erratic driving behavior should be ticketed whether you are drinking a Starbucks or Texting your girlfriend. "

    You hit the nail on the head. Going after the low hanging fruit will change very little.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Feds propose built-in limits on driving distractions

    I am more okay with this than I expected to be. So that crummy earphone that you have to plug into your ringing phone while driving 75 mph doesn't count? And still having to dial the phone manually? Or search through a list of 150 contacts while driving? Or 1500 songs on your iPod.

    If you have an integrated bluetooth system, that works.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2012
    "Surge'ON system ... prevents a car from starting unless the driver's cell phone is secured in a box that can't be opened while the engine is running.

    Ron Pothul said the system can be installed in about 15 minutes and takes five minutes to learn to use. It involves putting a chip on the driver's phone, or the use of a bypass card for the system if another driver with a phone takes the wheel. Pothul compared the pass-card to carrying a car key.

    He said a driver will be able to hear an incoming call with the phone secured, but will have to pull over and stop the engine to answer it."

    Inventor's system keeps drivers off cell phones (Detroit Free Press)
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