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Subaru Forester Brake Questions

2

Comments

  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    "I took off one of the front calipers today to look at my brake pads that were supposedly almost worn out. They look practically brand new at 28,000 miles.
    I think I'll change my brake fluid since it's about three years old, but I learned a lesson about trusting the particular Subaru dealership I go to."


    So long as you are an expert mechanic, with the same training at inspecting brakes as the technician who told you they were needed, no problem.

    Otherwise I wonder if you are willing to bet your life, or your loved ones on it?

    Brakes are cheap. Snap out of it! ;)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You've done most of the expensive/laborous part of changing the pads if you pulled the calipers. At this point you might as well spend the $50 or less for pads and replace them. I've replaced 100s and 100s of sets of Subaru brakes, and it never pays NOT to replace them. For my new biz, we will actually be focusing almost exclusively on Subaru brakes.

    -mike
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    Exactly right, Mike!

    Given the age of his car, in spite of the low miles, once I had the wheels off, I'd be damned if I wouldn't just replace them.

    My Dad used to say, 30% brakes left just meant to him that in an emergency, he had just lowered his chances by that much.

    In the grand scheme of things, brakes, batteries and tires are fairly cheap, per mile driven....why screw around on the cheap with your family or friends at stake? ;)
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Battery is probably the cheapest and easiest to replace. On my beater 240sx I went and bought a battery when I wasn't sure if my problem was the battery or the alternator. Alternator was like 150 + a few hrs labor, battery was $60 and about 10 minutes to swap out. Turned out it was the alternator in the end but the battery was a good shot and something it could use anyway.

    At our shop we have a box of 30-50% meat left brake pads that we give away for free to any of the NASIOC or other customers who come to our shop to hang out, if they want em, since they are of no use to us.

    Similarly, rotors run about $100/pair for the front retail for an Impreza or Legacy, we never suggest cutting rotors since it's $100 to replace em with brand new beefy ones.

    And lastly tires can be had for about $75 for Sumitommo HTR+ in 16 or 17" sizes for the subies, so for under $100/corner you can have brand new all season tires, how dumb would one feel if you slid into someone and did 1000s of dollars in damage due to bad tires or brakes?

    -mike
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    The obvious answer is, "Don't sweat the small stuff. It's all small stuff!"

    To be totally honest, I have been there, done that, with tires and brakes. I am sometimes dumb, but you don't have to hit me over the head with a hammer twice! :P
  • deepdropdeepdrop Member Posts: 89
    I don't preted to be an automotove repair expert. I appreciate the advice to go ahead and replace the brake pads. I'll call Tire Rack and just ask them what they recommend and order them.
    I appreciate the feedback which I find reasuuring as I have been RIPPED off by repair shops in the past.
    Would stil appreciate any suggestions on brake pads and tires if any one cares to...
    I use snow tires in the winter so I need new tires for the rest of the year.
    For brake pads, I drive a lot of hills and am fairly aggressive I guess. I head the "green things" are a good choice.
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    Well, another piece falls into place...... :P

    I lived for many years in the mountains....7,000 feet above Southern California, and I can tell you, no matter how one drives, it is murder on brakes. It is one of the prices you pay for doing so.....
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Are the way to go. We use them across the board.

    HP+ for Track/Auto-x/StreetUse -high dust
    HPs for Street/auto-x/aggressive driving -low dust

    Shoot me an e-mail on the pads as I may have some new HPs pads sitting around.

    For tires, if you are looking for summer tires the Yokohama ES100s are great summer-only tires. I also like the Sumitommo HTR+ all-seasons as well.

    -mike
  • szirgerszirger Member Posts: 4
    I recently had all four pads replaced on my 2005 XT and have noticed brake chattering when applying the brake. I have narrowed it down to when I apply the brakes driving over bumps in the road. I can always replicate the problem when I apply the brakes driving over speed bumps. The first time it happened was when it was raining and I don't remember if I went over a bump at that time. I plan to take the car back to the shop where the work was performed, however, I would like to have some knowledge why this is happening. Any help is appreciated.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    overtorqued lug nuts. They should be at 65 ft lbs.

    John
  • szirgerszirger Member Posts: 4
    Thanks, I'll check it myself tomorrow and make any adjustments as needed.

    Scott
  • szirgerszirger Member Posts: 4
    I adjusted the torque and the problem still occurs when braking over bumps or semi-rough road. Any other ideas?

    Thanks,

    Scott
  • joe4therjoe4ther Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2004 Forester 25XS. Can anyone tell me the Original Equipment thickness of the Front Rotors & Rear Rotors -- new ?? I know the Fronts are thicker -- but, that's all. Also, what is the minimum thickness allowed -- if they were to be surfaced ?? I just did my 60k service, and my dealer told me that my pads were at 2mm -- and, needed replacing. I should have waited until they squeeled, but I didn't. Instead, I stupidly took the car to "Break Team." They tried to sell me new rotors. Seems a scam to me. Anyway, that's another story. Thanks for the rotor specs. Joe
  • terry92270terry92270 Member Posts: 1,247
    60,000 certainly isn't too soon for brakes. Personally, I usually replace the rotors with the brakes, as they aren't that much "extra", and as long as I have it all apart, why not?

    Same applies to having them done, you have already paid two-thirds of the labor cost just replacing the pads. ;)
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    well, maybe a wheel bearing. I would jack up the wheels and start checking for something loose.

    I am doing my brakes in a month or two so maybe I will have a better idea then.

    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    With new pads, make sure you go through a break-in cycle.

    Basically you find an open, empty road and slow down from 60 or so down to about 5 mph without stopping. Then speed up, wait a minute for them to cool, and repeat. Don't come to a full stop, though.

    Sorry that's a bit vague, but I read about that when I changed my pads and did that to get them seated properly. My brakes are perfectly quiet and smooth.

    I don't think the bumps are good, get them broken in first on a smooth road.

    Worth a try.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It's probably a tire issue, not a brake issue. If you are going over bumps while applying the brakes on a car with bad tires, you'll get the jitteryness.

    -mike
  • szirgerszirger Member Posts: 4
    Thanks to all for the replies. I am going in the day after tomorrow to get new tires and will update you then.

    Scott
  • smussmus Member Posts: 3
    I have an 01 Forester S (MT) that has never stopped very well on slippery winter roads and it seems to be getting worse. The ABS is very slow to kick in and even pumping the brakes doesn't seem to make much of a difference. The brakes lock up too easily and I've rear ended other cars as a result. One thing I noticed recently is that the weight doesn't appear to be shifting to the front of the car like it should. Anyone had a similar problem or have any thoughts. Needless to say, the dealer was no help when I complained.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    in my opinion, if it it road conditions that affect your braking, the primary issue is the tires on your car. The fact that "weight" is not being shifted to the front means that the tires have no grip.

    John
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Slowing down, it helps, ABS, traction control, etc are only AIDS for driving, not replacements for common sense.

    I'd start with the tires and work my way up from there.

    -mike
  • smussmus Member Posts: 3
    These are relatively new tires and were highly rated for M+S. The weight shifts to the front of the car during braking because most of the braking is done by the front brakes. That's done by design -- the front brakes pads are much larger than the rears.

    I also have a 94 Mitz Galant with old tires and no ABS and it stops much better on the same road surface.
  • smussmus Member Posts: 3
    See my response to John. I am beyond these suggestions. I believe the problem is internal to the car's braking system, or the traction control. I can also easily put this car into a skid while turning, something which Subaru's 4 wheel drive system should minimize.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Its fairly well known that ABS + Snow does not work real well on ANY vehicle. When was the last time the brakes were flushed? As for "putting it into a skid while turning" I'm not sure of the situation, but again I'd go back to the tires on all these issues.

    They may be "rated" well for M&S but to be honest I don't believe any ratings. If the tires aren't working for your situation change em out.

    -mike
  • wallydebwallydeb Member Posts: 2
    OK -- I'm new to this forum and absolutely mechanically-challenged, BUT - my question is re: my 2004 Forester 25XT. At the end of this past winter, when I braked in slippery/snowy conditions, the brake pedal actually vibrated intensely, actually pushing my foot back upwards. This happened whether I slowed way down before braking, or if I braked gradually from about 25 mph. It was pretty scary; the car wouldn't stop and luckily it happened in spots where I was going "in-town" slowly and no one was going through the intersections. The dealer told me that it's "normal" to have this happen and suggested that it was my tires, which were down to 2/32nd inch (he said 1/32nd inch was illegal). So - because I don't want to die -- I replaced all 4 tires. But -- is this correct? Possible? My feeling is that, if winter hits and this happens again, bye-bye Subaru...
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That is fairly normal for ABS + Bad tires. Essentially what happens is that if you hit the brakes, and the tires slip, the ABS will release and re-apply the brakes so as to prevent the wheels from locking up. With better tires they won't be locking up and the ABS won't kick in as easily. The idea is that if you are sliding a rotating wheel will allow you to steer around the danger rather than slide straight into it.

    -mike
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747
    Yes, the and the brake pedal will pulsate quite rapidly. If you are pressing firmly on the pedal, it will not feel so intense. If ABS was engaging under light pressure, those tires were darn near the death of you! It is never a good idea to use highly worn all-seasons during the winter months. Their effectiveness in snow/ice conditions drops off dramatically after about 50% treadwear, at least in my experience.

    If you want to test whether the car is behaving normally before winter strikes again, find yourself a gravel road somewhere and jam the brakes with authority. That should illicit the same sensation in the brake pedal.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • wallydebwallydeb Member Posts: 2
    Thanks to both of you for the insights -- at least I don't feel as if I spent money on an unnecessary repair... But -- it leads me to another question: when we bought this car, ABS (we thought) was an assett, a "better", safer, brake system. From reading this forum and our experience, now I'm thinking one needs to be specially trained in order to use them properly, which isn't necessarily better. Is ABS a good system, or maybe does Subaru need to improve their version?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    ABS is better if you know how to use it. Just push hard on the brakes and STEER around the problem. In the past w/o ABS the idea was to pump the brakes and steer around the issue, however you can't pump them as fast as the ABS system can pump em. The idea isn't that ABS stops you any faster, it allows you to steer around the danger instead of sliding into it (when you have a locked wheel you can't steer)

    -mike
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747
    Indeed. There is a bit of "training" needed to use them properly. A lot of folks fear the "pulsating pedal" and end up pumping the brakes anyway instead of letting the ABS do its job. When I first purchased my '96 Subaru, I spent a a couple hours with my wife one evening just driving around a deserted parking lot and getting a feel for the way the system operated. It really does make a world of difference. But, if the traction to the road is bad, there is only so much ABS will help you accomplish. ;)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • dave139dave139 Member Posts: 19
    I have a 2005 Forester "X" model with nearly 32,000, purchased new. Been back to the dealer 5 times with same problem: squeaking rear brake drums. The mechanic cleans them but the noise comes back within a week. Happens all the time, cold or hot. Dealer says I have to live with it. Hard to believe something like this can't be permanently fixed. Any suggestions?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    There were drums on 2005 Foresters?

    -mike
  • dave139dave139 Member Posts: 19
    Right, rear drums but only on the X trim level.
    Dave
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Gotcha, hmm I never paid much attention to drum brakes on any of my cars as they didn't do much stopping. I'd guess it's the spring mechanism in there causing the squeeking.

    -mike
  • dave139dave139 Member Posts: 19
    Thanks..Just returned from the dealer. The svc. mgr test drove the care himself this time and found the noise to be in left rear drum. They found that there was a "high" spot on the drum which was sanded. They also serviced the pads and added some sort of lube. The noise has gone away (again) but the test will be to see if it lasts.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    True, the front brakes do 90% of the work, just look at your pad wear.

    Rear discs end up needing drums for parking brakes anyway. So I'm not sure if they save any weight or complexity.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    With EBD, you get things spaced out better. On my Armada I do about 2 to 1 Front to Rear. As for complexity? The drum-in disc parking brake isn't too complex, I never touch drums with the springs and what not, but rear discs are great to replace, quite easy.

    -mike
  • peteymugspeteymugs Member Posts: 2
    Need help, I have an 02 forester with rear drum brakes..... after I adjust them, after a little bit of driving, the pedal goes right to the floor when I go to stop then on the next pressing of the pedal, it goes back to normal. this happens until I can un-adjust them then they are fine.... Any input would be greatly appreciated.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747
    I have had that problem before with a couple of 1969 vehicles; in those cases, the diaphragm in the master cylinder (under the hood) was kaput. I doubt that is your problem in this case, though.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You most likely need to flush/bleed your brake fluid system. That is generally what that pumping action means. Probably when you adjusted them you may have lowered the fuild level below the full mark in the master cylinder and introduced air to the system.

    -mike
  • peteymugspeteymugs Member Posts: 2
    Thanks Mike...... do you happen to know the bleeding procedures?..... I was told that there is a sequence that has to be followed when bleeding the subarus similar to rotating tires, meaning that you can't just pick a side and bleed.....
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You want to start with the brake furthest from the master cylinder and work your way closer which usually means right rear, left rear, right front, left front.

    The proper proceedure uses 2 or 3 people.
    Crack the bleeder then re-tighten.
    Have the person in the car pump the brakes tight, person cracking brake line should say "Open".
    Crack the bleeder while they apply pressure til the pedal hits floor, then keep pressure and say "floor".
    Person at the wheel then closes the bleeder and says "Closed".
    The pumper in the drivers seat then pumps them up again and says "Hard"

    Rinse and repeat this. You'll probably need to do it about 20x on each rear and 10x on the fronts.

    The 3rd person can keep checking the master cylinder, or else it will run dry.

    This will flush your fluid and drastically improve braking and extend the life of your brake system. It should be done every other year.

    -mike
  • phil2000phil2000 Member Posts: 195
    I need help with a different problem. Two weeks ago the pulley went and cause the timing belt to jump. Repair ran $775.00 on my 2000 Forester. But the engine misses now and the dealer (who I am not happy with) said I have valve damage but did not say which ones. I wonder did he put the belt on correctly. The engine had 254,000 on it. Are the CD versions of the manuals off of eBay a good buy? Thanks :(
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The order for our Subies is:

    1) right front

    2) left rear

    3) left front

    4) right rear
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Odd, I've done Right Rear->Left Rear->Front Right->Front Left for 10+ years w/o issue on 100s of cars....

    -mike
  • nocnoc Member Posts: 1
    there was a ticking sound coming from the back end and my dealer told me I needed all new brake pads and rotors? Car only has 53K mile thought that was really soon - had the car since new and have done 15K, 30K and 50K service
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For pads that's normal, but it's a bit early for rotors. You may want to get a 2nd opinion on those.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Pads are way over due. You may have gone too far and ruined the rotors.

    Most subies take rotors at 60-80k miles.

    -mike
  • ziggy15ziggy15 Member Posts: 2
    The brakes on my two Foresters screech. One has 22K miles and the other 28K. I have taken them to Subaru dealers who tell me the discs are glazed or there is dust or stones in them. I took them to a brake repair chain, who told me there was a manufacturing defect. I have not received any recalls from Subaru, and called the 800 number. They said there were no recalls. Can someone tell me what the problem is? I had several earlier Foresters that did not have this problem. :confuse:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If pads are glazed they can be scuffed, i.e. they scratch the surface.

    New pads are $20 or so, so I'd just replace them, myself. Ever done brakes?

    Even if you have to pay your mechanic, the pads are several years old and I would go ahead and flush the brake fluid while you're at it.

    The 2009s are out so yours are 4-5 years old now, I'd just replace the pads.
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