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The Lost Reatta

2

Comments

  • tinker8rtinker8r Member Posts: 2
    Much more expen$ive when they were new. If you are a Reatta Hobbyist, and I stress that it is a hobby because you are always replacing or improving something , (after all, it is 16 to 20 years old,) you should join the discussion @ Antique Automobile Club of America if you want to learn more about this fantastic little car. The first thing you will need is a service manual, which is available, on line, for free from our forum. I believe there is an Alante forum also but, not in the above link. I believe that is in the Cadillac forum.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    What makes the Reatta "fantastic"? I would describe it a decent car for its day. It's also interesting in a number of ways, from a historical perspective, and a good collector car. Further, Buick deserves credit for taking the business risk of building a two seater. However, if the Reatta had been fantastic it would have sold in larger numbers, and there'd be an '08 in Buick showrooms, don't you think?

    A Grand National edition Reatta might have sparked some much needed excitement, in my opinion, and attracted people who were looking for more excitement, without betraying the concept of a comfortable grand tourer.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,676
    I think the Reatta might have sparked more interest back in the day, if they had offered a convertible version of it right from the get-go. And a stronger engine might have given it more of a premium, upscale feel. I have a feeling the 231 turbo that Buick had used in the Grand National might have been too brutal for this FWD platform at the time, but it really needed more than the 150-165 hp it was putting out. Reattas were HEAVY, too. Despite their small size, they weighed more than the FWD LeSabres and Electras of the time.

    Now in later years, GM was able to supercharge the 231 and use it in FWD platforms, but I have a feeling these cars were much more beefed up than the 1986-era E-body (Toro/Eldo/Riv) upon which the Reatta was based.

    Buick's demographic was starting to shift in the later 80's, as well. Buick had once been looked upon as an upper medium price brand, which in modern terminology, I believe they call "Near Luxury". Buick once was the Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, etc, of its day. Earlier in the 80's, there was a definite market for the pricier Buicks. Rivieras and Electras were popular, and the more expensive LeSabre Limited tended to outsell the cheaper Custom by a wide margin. In later years though, Buick made more of its volume off of smaller, cheaper cars like the FWD Century, Somerset Regal/Skylark, cheaper versions of the LeSabre, etc. The Electra saw a few good years at first, after it went FWD, mainly because the economy was coming out of a recession, which kept sales of the earlier RWD models lower than they normally would have been. But it fell from grace pretty quickly. And Buick really shot themselves in the foot with the 1986 Riviera. Sales fell from about 65,000 of the 1985 models, down to a paltry 22K for the shrunken 1986 models. Similarly, the FWD Regal never took off in quite the way that the RWD model had. It had a few upward years at first, probably because the RWD model had just gotten long in the tooth and buyers were looking elsewhere. But the trends were pretty obvious, that Buick was moving downscale. Truthfully, it had been doing so since perhaps the late 50's, when platform sharing became more pronounced, but it seemed to accelerate in the 80's.

    The Reatta was also pretty expensive, for what you got. The 1990-91 convertible stickered for around $35-36K. In contrast, a Corvette convertible, which had the heritage and power to give it some prestige, didn't sticker for much more..$37-38K.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Was the touch screen digital dash they used.

    These caused troubles when they were new and if one of them went bad now, it would probably condemm the car.

    Where would you ever find another one?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think on the whole the interiors on the Reatta and Allante disappointed buyers as they looked too cheap for the price of the car.

    The digital dash on the Reatta got pretty temperamental in cold weather, too.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    There was a big "gee whiz" factor with those nifty (at the time) digital touch screen dashes but I remember the mechanics at the Buick dealers just hated them. They are primitive as can be now.

    I remember, hearing in the late 80's that to replace that big dash unit cost someting like 2600.00 plus labor!

    I don't know if that was accurate but today, I doubt if you could find one at any price.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,676
    Didn't the Reatta use the same dashboard, and touchscreen, as the Riviera? I'd always heard these were troubleprone on the Riv, too. I guess it was a good idea in theory, but just too far ahead of its time. The technology just wasn't there yet. But then, I wonder how long-term durable touch-screen type stuff is today? Things like Iphones and such.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yes, they were available in the Rivieras of that era but I think as an option and not standard like the Reattas.

    Everything was controlled through that screen. Climate control, radio etc. They would tell you things like if your AC freon was low etc.

    Kind of nifty, actually but troublesome and not very practical.

    The early Allantes were nothing but trouble and the Cadillac dealers REALLY hated working on them!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I know folks like these cars and I'm glad they do....but if you sit in one, you do get the sense of them being an arrow that missed its target. GM was really out of touch with the market, the world and people's desires.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    This wasn't the first time GM missed the mark.

    Those Reattas were VERY expensive as I recall.

    A question for my buddy Mr. Shifty.

    HOW in the world do you monitor all of these boards? Is it a 24 hr 7 day a week job for you?

    You can answer that in a private email if you wish. I'm just curious.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    A lotta buck, not too much bang.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I'm wondering whether Buick could have saved the Reatta by offering a performance version.

    I don't know for sure, but I imagine one of the objectives of the Buick Reatta was to pull younger people into the showroom, but it failed to do that. I think the Reatta was nicely styled for its day, but its driving dynamics weren't sporty enough. As an expensive premium model, it wouldn't have had to target the below 30 crowd, other than as an aspirational. "one day I want to own one" sort of way. However, it certainly would have had to appeal to the upwardly mobile late-30s and older crowd, instead of only (with few exceptions) the 55+ motorists.

    Suppose the Reatta had offered a supercharged or turbocharged version, with a tight suspension and a 5-speed manual, a Reatta "Grand National" or "GNX", in addition to the regular version. Could that have saved the Reatta?

    In mesage #13 british rover wrote the following:

    "Well the Reatta was deal by the time the Series II 3800 engines came out and those were the first Supercharged 3800s. They never did a series 1 Supercharged 3800.

    You can't even put a supercharger from a supercharged 3800 onto a NA 3800. Everything about the engine is different. THe SC 3800 motors used completly different heads."

    That doesn't really explain why Buick couldn't have made the necessary modifications to offer a supercharged or turbocharged version. Money wasn't nearly as tight then as it is now.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,676
    I think one problem is that around that timeframe, Buick was trying to trim back on its sporty image, which is why they started dropping the T-type versions of the LeSabre, Electra, etc. But then, oddly, a few years later, they started offering supercharged Park Avenues, Regals, and and Rivieras.

    Maybe GM was just getting confused as to what, exactly, they wanted Buick to be. With dropping the sporty T-types, I think they were supposed to start focusing more on luxury, but they never really got there.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Your explanation of why Buick didn't offer a G.N., GNX, or even a T-type (without a booster, but with a tighter suspension, a 5-speen manual and trim differentiation, at least) is reasonable, but doesn't address the "what if they had..." question. Of course, any response is conjectural, since we'll never know, but I'm wondering what other car enthusiasts think regarding how the Reatta might have been saved.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well we could look at the XLR, which hasn't exactly set the world on fire.

    I think the problem about a hi-rod Reatta or an XLR is that there is no room in this narrow market for a wannabee Mercedes SL .

    GM should repeat ten times a day "We cannot, nor will we ever, be able to build a Mercedes SL, so let's stop trying".
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I see your point, Shifty, but while the Reatta wasn't cheap and, indeed, may have been overpriced, it wasn't as expensive as today's Cadillac XLR, even after adjusting for inflation. The hi-po or hot rod Reatta might have added, maybe, 10% to the selling price of the regular one (wasn't that about the difference between, say, a Buick Regal LS and a supercharged GS?).

    My point, then, is that I don't think the hot rod Reatta would really have competed with the Mercedes SL. GM assigned that role to the Allante, and the fate of that Cadillac model supports your point more than the Reatta/SL comparison, in my opinion. But, for whatever similarities existed between the Reatta and the Allante, I believe it's appropriate to discuss and compare them separately with the SL.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well if the SL wasn't the Reatta market, what was? The Datsun Z cars? Another awesome competitor is in the 300ZX. Lotsa luck with that one Buick.

    You could compare it to another modern flop, the Chrysler Crossfire. Fast enough, very svoopy-doopy and all that, and way too expensive once again.

    I just don't think there was a niche that the Reatta could have survived in at that price point.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    "Another awesome competitor is in the 300ZX. Lotsa luck with that one Buick."

    Well, that's harder to counter than the Reatta/SL comparison, but let me try.

    The '90s 300 ZX was indeed an awesome car. The same could be said of the Buick GNX, however, even though these particular cars weren't direct competitors because you can't compare a sportscar with a muscle car.

    Although I've never driven or even ridden in a GNX, from everything I've read it couldn't be compared with the Buick Regal on which it was based. It's performance didn't fit the Buick image. Their performance was as different as night and day. The GNX was one mean car. It has a solid enthusiast following.

    I cite the GNX to make the point that if Buick had used the GNX as a model for a performance Reatta, the 300ZX might have had a competitor, and the Reatta might have survived. Now the indisputable difference between Nissan and Buick is that Nissan actually put out an awesome car, while Buick might have/could have/should have, but didn't.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    All well said, but the GNX is like a 14th century ox cart next to a 300ZX. Fast, yes, but totally dated in every other respect. It was a "tinkerer's car" made up by the Buick skunk works, but underneath it all just a boxy Buick with early 80s dated styling, cheesy hardware and handling more fitting to a NASCAR operation than a sports car (meaning you could make them very stiff and rigid enough to go around a smooth oval track, but god help you if you hit a bump).

    I believe that the success of the GNX (such as it was) was due more to the paucity of anything else left for the American car enthusiast to buy in 1986.

    But your idea of a *developed* GNX powerplant in a *further developed* Reatta---well sure, that could have given GM a 300ZX competitor.

    But I think GM was still pretty clueless in 1990. They really didn't "get it" until the Corvette C5, did they? -- what, 7 years down the road?
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I agree 100% with you that GM was pretty clueless around 1990, which explains why the Reatta was never a threat to the 300 ZX. And, come to think of it, as a FWD car, the Reatta could never be a sportscar counterpart to the GNX.

    At least the XLR, which you cited in an earlier message, is RWD, which the Reatta and Allante should also have been. I guess, in GM's defense, when they did the feasibility studies on these two sporty cars the engines weren't so powerful that torque steer was a major problem, and fewer consumers were as aware of the limits of FWD as they are today. That's not to say that, even as a FWDer, the Reatta couldn't have been a much more engaging drive than it was, but your comparison with the 300 ZX wins this debate.
  • yunghillyunghill Member Posts: 3
    i have problems with my rare reatta i know i have a small crack in my exsaust manifold i put some sealer onit but all of a sudden it sounds like a truck and it sutters when i take off and it lose power on incline like the transmission and sparks aint on the same page????i need help please i heard it could be my something moduleor crank censer but i dunno
  • armesarmes Member Posts: 32
    With the crack in the manifold, the O2 sensor is reading the wrong exhaust gas mixture and is telling the computer to compensate for a type of problem that really doesn't exist in the natural scheme of things. You need to replace the manifold and do it quickly before you burn out some exhaust valves with an oxygen rich mix in the manifold.
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    What a small world. Came across this online ad only yesterday and had never even heard of the Reatta prior to that. Now there's one for sale, here in the UK, about 50 miles from home.

    Follow the linky.
    1990 Buick Reatta
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,131
    Some nuts on this side of the pond would ask just as much for it. Great colors for it anyway.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Maybe $5--$6K for a really nice one.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    edited March 2011
    Took a couple of pictures

    image
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You'll still see a few bangin' away out there but I think the Reatta will soon be extinct on our roads---nobody is really restoring them, so as they age, they get junked and that's that.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I always kind of liked them but yeah they are way oddball and will probably fade away in a few more years. I am sure the drive train from a later SSEI supercharged Bonneville or other H-Body would fit without too much trouble. That would at least make it a fast interesting oddball coupe. The suspension would probably bolt in too I know it did with my 1989 Bonneville.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,131
    A "special interest" car. Those things could be had with the weird 80s GM style high tech dash, right?

    The dopey ineffectual principal I had in high school drove one of those.

    Nice to see you round here again.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah I think they had digital dashes and maybe even the early HUDs in some of them.

    I am sure that is mostly broken in those cars by now. Maybe the HUDs would still work those seem to last as long as the windshield is replaced with the right type.

    I have been around but been busy with the house, trying to keep up with work stuff and a toddler now so haven't been posting in most of my usual forums.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    "The dopey ineffectual principal I had in high school drove one of those."

    Ugh! Did you ever notice how just seeing one undesirable person driving a particular car could ruin the image of a vehicle for you? You start thinking, "If a guy like him drives that kind of car, I sure as heck don't want one!" Your description makes me picture Principle Skinner from "The Simpsons" in a Reatta.

    image
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,676
    Ugh! Did you ever notice how just seeing one undesirable person driving a particular car could ruin the image of a vehicle for you?

    Exactly. That's why I hate the Ford Tempo to this very day...my stepdad used to have one! But, I can easily find reasons other than that to not like the Tempo. :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,131
    edited April 2011
    My old principal was pretty much a shorter heavier version of Skinner.

    But at least he wasn't an arrogant jerk like some. His lasting impression on me is the Reatta.

    As I am a nut, I can remember many teacher's cars going back to second grade (77-79 T-Bird)
  • duff333duff333 Member Posts: 41
    My old boss bought a Reatta when they 1st came out. He had purchased a couple of Buicks over the years from a local dealer and, while at the dealership one day, saw a Reatta come in off the delivery truck. He had to beg the manager to let him buy it - - - "I've bought 3 Buicks in the last 6 years and I deserve to get that car!". He had to pay full price.. I think it had a 170 HP which wasn't bad in the day...he had to sell it a couple years later due to some unforeseen financial issues...probably got out while the gonig was still "good". I never could tell if he liked it or not - - he drove like a little old lady despite old stories about his 390-4v Mustang and a Bugeye Sprite he had back in the 60's. I thought it was a pretty neat car but what did I know - - I still had a Pinto!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Bought a Reatta yesterday out of the blue!

    Pick it up tomorrow....more later!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,676
    We want pictures! Congratulations! Hope you enjoy your new/old ride! Did you get a convertible or the coupe?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    It's a coupe. A 1990 so it doesn't have that troublesome CRT screen.

    For years it belonged to an 85 year old member of the Buick Club and the current owner has owned it 7 years. Decent shape, always a Seattle car so no rust.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,131
    Sounds fun, what colors?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,676
    Sounds like a nice car! So, are you in the Buick club? I wonder if I'd be old enough to join? :P

    Hate to say it, but one reason I let my membership in the local DeSoto club expire was simply that I didn't have much in common with the other members. I was only 20 when I bought mine, and most of the other members made the typical Buick demographic look like the Justin Bieber crowd. Or, back then I guess it was New Kids on the Block or whatever...
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Strange color really that I hadn't seen befoe but not a repaint.

    A cross between silver and charcoal I would say.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yeah, you're old enough A-hole :P

    I did belong about 12 years ago when I had my 1953 Suoer with 45,000 miles and at the time most were my age or older.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,131
    Sounds no different than the MBCA here. At last year's show, I think I was the 2nd or 3rd youngest person there out of maybe 75 entrants - and I am getting into my mid 30s now. Some members had been members for about 20 years when I was born!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Same to you! ;)

    I din't know about the Ford show at BCC today and missed it!

    Instead I ended up at the Triple X in Issaquah for a boring BMW meet.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,131
    Really? I had no idea there was a Ford show there either, damn. I had the old car out too...probably won't take it off surface streets until I get the parking brake and cooling system issue taken care of, maybe next month.

    Mustang show at BCC should be in a month or two.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Just don't miss Fenders on Front St. in Issaquah on Father's Day. Huge event!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,131
    What kind of show is that? I am on the east coast that week but I'm back by the weekend.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    On Saturday. Every year on Front St. Quite an event!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited June 2011
    Maybe someone can tell me how to post photos? I have some pics on an SD card but I'm challenged as far as posting things.

    Picked it up yesterday and it's even better than I thought.

    Body is as straight as a pin. Original paint looks good unless a person wants to pick at it and point out the areas where the clearcoat is starting to peel just a bit.

    Leather and interior are probably an 8 out of 10 and it runs exceptionall well. 138,000 miles.

    A/C will throw snowballs at you.

    The worst thing are the aluminum factory wheels. If you look at them close, you'll see curb rash and clearcoat peeling. They really need to be redone.

    ABS light is on and has been for at least five years according to the seller

    Owners Manual and Reatta pen are included in the leather folder. I found the factory "build sheet" inside the car.

    If someone tells he how to do this, I'll post pics.">
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,676
    Maybe someone can tell me how to post photos? I have some pics on an SD card but I'm challenged as far as posting things.

    I just realized something...they don't have "CarSpace" here on Edmund's anymore, do they?

    To post pics, you need to have an account at a photo sharing site, like Flickr, Photobucket, etc, or some kind of personal website where you can upload pictures.

    If you don't have one, if you want to email me some pics, I can post them from my photobucket site.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Appreciate that but I'm going to have to figure out how to even email people pictures. I thought I knew how but I guess I don't.

    Hate to admit this but when it comes to things like this, I need to take a class.
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