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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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Comments

  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Brillant post!

    M
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    >Brillant brilliant post!

    >M
    :blush:

    Your previous post contains flaws also. :)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Long as you get the point.

    M
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Well, good for Cadillac if it can once again become the super-luxury marque it was in the 1930s. What that would mean to me is that I'd probably would step down to Buick. Just as long as they make Buick the equivalent or slightly better than what Cadillac is now.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    The reply seemed overwrought. But I understand it's your opinion.

    My experience has been different with GM cars. End of discussion for me.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Cadillac or Lexus would never be able to take Europe, by storm or otherwise. The Europeans are far more fiercely loyal to their luxury makes.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    What they need to do is make Cadillac liek the American version of Bentley. That is, no expense spared, the best parts and options, and way overbuilt. Bring back real 5mph bumpers, ditch the plastic(including headlights), give us old fashioned heavy gauge steel(late 90s S class quality).

    Build a tank that will last for 20+ years. Price? Not a problem - if it's built well enough, people will pay whatever GM decides is fair. See, to the upper-end of the auto buying market, price isn't a factor. if $50K buys you plastic and cheapness, $60K for something with twice the build and interior quality - it just won't matter.

    More plastic just digs that hole faster.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    last time I checked, the Bentley and Rolls Royce price tags were considerably more than $60K. I would guess that a Cadillac with twice the build and interior quality would double the price. For example, is the XLR really twice as good as a CTS?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Gee, they used to build a car like that - the Cadillac Brougham! My 1989 model is going on 18 years so far.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Does something like a STS-V actually have plastic headlight covers? Say it aint so.

    Indeed, build something that will last for ages, and price will become less important. It's a big reason MB was able to get 65K out of an S class 20 years ago, or 90K out of one 15 years ago. I remember showing my W126 to a friend's father, who is a very experienced lead mechanic with 30 years experience who works for a medium sized city. He was astonished at the quality of the metal used in the car.

    I don't think GM has overbuilt anything in a very long gime.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Of course just because a car "lasts" for 20 years, doesn't mean it will be 20 years of trouble free driving. Thick sheet metal is nice, but if the car is in the shop every few months to repair non-sheetmetal related problems, then who would want to keep such a car? Plus, with the additional safety innovations in the past 20 years, a two year old Kia is probably safer than a 20 year old Mercedes.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Depends on the costs of the repairs vs the driving experience, I guess.

    I see lots of miled up late 80s-early 90s MB out there, so they can't always be in the shop.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    You're probably right, since most MB owners are probably driving a MB just for the name, so they probably like to use the phrase "My MB mechanic" as well ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Most who drive just for the name are probably foolish enough to take a 15 year old car to the dealer for every little hiccup.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Exactly...I can see driving some 20yr old unreliable sports car for fun, but driving some 20yr old sedan, even a MB, seems crazy to me if you need to repair it all the time.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    You may have to maintain it more or more expensively compared new Corolla...but if it has been taken care of, it shouldn't be failing more than a normal car half its age and mileage.

    My W126 was at 185K when I parted with it...I had a very reliable time with it in the nearly 4 years I owned it, it really only had one issue (leaky fuel distributor) that caused an unscheduled shop visit.

    However, if you want a trouble-free low maintenance efficient commuter, I wouldn't recommend an old car like that, no. You have to care for it, and it will return the favor.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    If after 4 years all you had was a leaky fuel distributor, then I'd call that pretty reliable regardless of how old that car was.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    How much did GM charge for an '89 Brougham? $35k or so?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    There were other things I had done during scheduled maintenance - namely suspension bushings, but nothing close to a failure, nothing to leave me stranded. That's why they could get so much for those cars back then, they were really overbuilt. There are lots of nice W126 cars out there today, some are 25 years old, many in daily routine use.
  • driverodrivero Member Posts: 2
    Sorry for the off-topic post, but I couldn't figure out how to post a new topic (I'm a newbie here!).

    I have to tell people how incredibly disappointed I was by the reliability of my rental Pontiac Grand Prix GT. The car only had 1600(!) miles on it and I was driving a 2 hour road trip when the check engine light came on and the engine dramatically lost power and began to run very rough. It wouldn't pass about 60 and acceleration was coarse and anemic. It was also running a bit hot, but not so close to the red that I'd normally worry about it. I assumed I lost coolant and the supercharged 3.8L V6 went into a 'limp-home mode' but from checking underhood, the coolant level was fine, as were all the belts/hoses and oil level.

    I was otherwise impressed by the car. Still not up to a level of a TL or something similar, but cheaper too. It had solid build quality, decent materials, and sporty handling with a solid ride. It also had good power. Now I was driving kinda fast when this happend (about 90), but I used to drive my Hondas at this speed from Orlando to Miami in hot summer weather all the time with no problems. My Civic hit 95k without a single problem and my Accord is at 55k and going strong. Has GM made no progress or is this just an isolated incident? Also, any ideas about what happened to the motor?
  • mako1amako1a Member Posts: 1,855
    That Bosch-3 ABS system failure on my Cadillac Allante really should have been covered even if the warranty was over. It was a major safety issue and a very expensive fix on a car on which it should never have failed. As I prepare to merge into the luxury lane from the sports lane it will be a Lexus rather than a Cadillac I merge into.

    2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Which Lexus caught your sporty eye?

    If anything, sport seems to be one area where Caddy beats Lexus, if by a hair.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Mine was the "regular" Brougham and it based around $29,950. I got a few extras and it came in around $31K all said and done. A Brougham d'Elegance was a bit more. They were probably around $35K.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The d'Elegance option was less than $2000, but GM/Cadillac had long lists of optional equipment back then instead of the current options packages. A fully equipped Brougham probably could have run about $35,000.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think "cache" would be very important to obtaining a "standard of the world" label and while there are certainly regional differences, Cadillacs are practically non-existant as status symbols in the Napa/Sonoma/San Francisco Bay/Silicon Valley/Central Coast/Monterey Carmel area. I could go all day without seeing a new or new-ish Cadillac. I can't even recall seeing a Cadillac dealer, although I'm sure there is one. Oh yeah, I did see one in Colma (that's a good joke for those of you who live around here).

    I don't know the scene in Los Angeles--I'd expect the Escalade works very well down there for the bling set, if that's the image you want.

    Maybe in Florida with the older folks Cadillac has some prestige to it?-- but not very much in my neck of the woods. I'd dare say the car is "scarce" around here.

    Yeah yeah California isn't the world I know that, but it's still a litmus test for prestige...
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I would think that you are in Rolls Royce territory? :D
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    Yeah yeah California isn't the world I know that, but it's still a litmus test for prestige...

    Last time I experienced that part of the Golden state it gave me a sense not of prestige but of snobery.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Nah, Rolls Royces don't fly either out here....that's LA territory. We laugh at Rolls Royces. They are too over the top.

    Well snobbery and prestige are two sides of the same coin--they both imply discrimination and discernment of quality (real or imagined) and more important, all the snobs have to agree on this.

    Cadillac dealers where I live look rather poorly...they need chandeliers and carpeting, etc. If you want to sell prestige, you have to look the part and act the part. Cadillac doesn't do a good job of that in their dealer network in my region. Were I King of Cadillac, that's one of the first things I'd work on. The product is "good enough" right now for image-building at least.
  • subzeroaksubzeroak Member Posts: 17
    My only GM SUV I owned was a POS. Never buy GM again..

    As far as Cadillac being the standard of the world, they probably were back in 1910 or something but theres no way they are now. A Cadillac by itself is a nice car, but compared to the other cars in its class, falls way behind.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    Having visited both Southern California and the San Francisco regions recently, I was surprised at how few non-rental GM vehicles were on the roads.

    If it weren't for the big pickups and SUVS, GM would be just about out of business in the Golden State. Very few Cadillacs were to be found on the highways.

    As for around here (Harrisburg, Pa.) - I don't get the sense that Cadillacs have that much prestige anymore. The "new rich" and successful professionals prefer European luxury cars, and the "wannabes" are following in their footsteps.

    The "old money" seems to prefer Lexuses, or even a Lincoln Town Car.

    The "frugal" millionaires (or The Millionaire Next Door type) aren't spending their money on luxury cars that depreciate rapidly.

    The DTS does appeal to older retirees who have always wanted a Cadillac, but they don't strike me as being especially rich. I remember reading in The New York Times that after trade-ins, incentives and discounts are factoring in, the final transaction price of the Deville/DTS is about $35,000, which is hardly luxury territory.

    The local Cadillac dealer has Escalades stacked up like cordwood around the lot, most with "$4,000 off" written on the windshield in big, bright letters. But then professional athletes and rappers are far and few between around here...
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Is that Brenner Cadillac by any chance? Maybe it's time for me to see them again after all this time. Heck, I'm exponentially happy with the 1989 Cadillac Brougham they sold me 18 years ago. Maybe I can make a deal on a loaded DTS?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    lemko, I think you could get a deal on a DTS. It would be worth looking into I suppose. I've seen some good deals on low mileage 06's in my neck of the woods. ;)

    Rocky
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    Yes, lemko, that is Brenner Cadillac.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    For you diehard Cadillacers:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhqkV6iRbE0&eurl=

    M
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Nice video merc :)

    Rocky
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    What kind of Caddy does Blondie have? I wonder if she also has a Lincoln, Mercury, or Subaru.

    Some might not be attracted to a make where dealers advertise on discussion sites.

    I have a Mercedes...when dictators and despots, who can buy and drive any car they want, drive Mercedes by choice, you know something is happening.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    Fintail!
    You gave me my first laugh of the day. You've grouped yourself with dictators and despots! I'll have to bookmark this post for later use. ;)

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    LOL.....Fintail, as much as I hate to admit it I have to agree with ya on the mercedes. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • rickypaulrickypaul Member Posts: 24
    You couldn't be more wrong. A middle class person couldn't afford a Cadillac in the 50's and shouldn't be able to afford one now, unless of course they choose to live in it. I'm talking about "excellence" here. Unless it is striven for, it won't be reached. A larger margin, smaller market car that is innovative, stylish, and handmaid will create a wake of technology behind for the rest of the GM Line.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,014
    Well my middle class family could and did. Working at GM, is considered middle class and my grandfather drove Cadillacs.

    Rocky
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Member Posts: 1,060
    Don't forget, he also got the "Employee price"!!!!
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    My observation is that when middle class drives cadillacs ut usually the older ones who have been able to save up some money and could now afford some luxury in their lives.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    I can get an 06 DTS for the price of a Camcord...
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    You sure can if you compare the top of the line Camcord with every option available including the kitchen sink to the base DTS with no options.

    I am surprised you didn't use the CTS which starts much lower than the DTS.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    The DTS has a lot of options. Why compare a DTS with all those included base items with a HoToy stripper model?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    I meant it to compare that you can get something that looks new for the price of a more 'middle class' (does such a thing really exist anymore?) brand. Of course, the Camcord will be new and the Caddy not new...but nobody will know.

    I bet a base DTS is pretty much the same as a loaded Camcord when it comes to equipment. Maybe no nav, that's it. A CTS starts lower, but a DTS depreciates a lot faster.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    I meant it to compare that you can get something that looks new for the price of a more 'middle class'

    Its a false comparison simply because the vast majority of 2007 Camcords go for less than the cheapest 2006 DTS is going for (that is if you are buying it as a year old new car). It is also possible that all Camcords are less.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    I said a loaded Camcord...I've seen local 06 DTS for 26K, and it's no problem to get a V6 leather Camcord to that price.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,324
    Then it must be a used DTS which again makes it a false comparison.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • chevy598chevy598 Member Posts: 162
    The DTS is cool for an old school boat. Nothing like it on the road right now.
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