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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    Mercedes is a car company with both luxury and entry level cars. Lexus is the luxury line for Toyota. A big difference. Toyota is trying to compete with several brands offered by major automakers. It is true that Toyota was shooting for Mercedes in the beginning. I don't think they were after the big Tuna Boat Cadillac buyers. In 1990 I do not believe that people that bought a Mercedes were considering a Cadillac. They were not the same kind of luxury. I know my wife long before we were married only bought Mercedes and Porsche cars. Would not consider a Big ole Cadillac. She bought her LS400 to replace a 300SD sedan.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    We were strictly going by looks on the IS and GS. Especially the IS.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHA...

    I have admit... This IS the best joke of the day.

    Let's see, strictly going by looks, I'll say

    The DTS has cheapened the Caddy line.
    The 3, 5 and 7 series have cheapened the BMW line.
    All R&R have cheapened the Rolls line.
    All Bentley have cheapened the Bentley line.
    .
    .
    .

    You should get my point by now.

    By the way, the IS wasn't designed to attract buyers in your age so it's no surprise you find it unattractive. However, it is a huge hit for the sub-30 buyers. Heck, my boss is in his 40s and currently drives a Camry, he also has a hot for the new IS.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Mercedes is a car company with both luxury and entry level cars.

    Wrong, MB is a Luxury Marque. They don't compete with the such like Honda, Toyota, Ford and Chevy.

    Lexus is the luxury line for Toyota. A big difference.

    Wrong again, Lexus is Toyota's answer for MB and BMW. whatever MB and BMW offers, Lexus should have a fighter for it, for example:

    entry-level: BMW - 3er, MB - C-class, Lexus - IS
    midsize: BMW - 5er, MB - E-class, Lexus - GS
    fullsize: BMW - 7er, MB - S-class, Lexus - LS

    Hope this should clear up your miss understanding.

    I don't think they were after the big Tuna Boat Cadillac buyers.

    They are going after all the buyers whom are looking for better value luxury cars. Where it's the MB, BMW or Caddy they don't care.

    In 1990 I do not believe that people that bought a Mercedes were considering a Cadillac.

    True, but now Caddy is in competition with both BMW and Lexus. As well as MB.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,563
    There is not a single entry in the entire Caddy line screams "affordable".

    The base CTS can be had starting at well under $30K.

    MB has the entry line in C-class.

    Yes but it is just a hair more expensive than the CTS and a lot smaller.

    There are three types of people in this world. Those who are good at math and those who are not.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    When you try to attract one set of buyers you many times alienate your customer base. Trying to attract a particular demographic is rarely successful. I know today if by some slim chance we were going to buy a sedan instead of an SUV, it would be either the S or maybe the E Mercedes. None of the Cadillac sedans have the look my wife will accept. Looks sell more cars than any other one factor.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,563
    Mercedes is a car company with both luxury and entry level cars.

    I wouldn't call anything Mercedes sells "entry Level" unless the word "luxury" is tacked on the end.

    There are three types of people in this world. Those who are good at math and those who are not.

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,702
    I saw an IS at the local gas station coffee shop. The guy inside had on a recently bought navy pinstrip suit, a fancy shirt which I guess he paid lots for but looked out of place, and lots of obnoxious cologne along with hair that had goop on it to make it look straggled. He looked like he binged on something often, maybe alcohol. And probably was near 30. I pegged him as a stock broker type, new and probably would overspend himself when things ain't hot, since there are some offices that sell by phone and some off brand stores around th area. He went out and hopped into his IS350 as though he had the best thing in life. Zoomed his way through the maze to get out of the station. Is that the steroetype someone is trying to say buys IS's and older folk wouldn't understand.

    This message has been approved.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    Lexus is Toyota's answer for MB and BMW

    That may be true. Though I don't remember BMW being very popular in the 1980s. I was taken back the first time I saw a cheapo Mercedes. Maybe MB needed to start a cheap car company to compete with Toyota. Or Maybe that is why they bought Chrysler. I don't see Cadillac in that mix. The only reason I even gave Cadillac a second thought was my search for the nicest SUV. I found their cars to be a lot nicer than my last Cadillac, a 1948 4 door with a big flathead V8 engine.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,563
    Though I don't remember BMW being very popular in the 1980s.

    I do, it was very popular with the younger up and coming set.

    There are three types of people in this world. Those who are good at math and those who are not.

  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    This is not an IS board so this will be my last post regarding this issue.

    Looks to me Lexus has a winner in the new IS because couple years ago that 30-year-old-broker-type will get a 3-series without looking back...

    When you try to attract one set of buyers you many times alienate your customer base.

    The older folks will not be interested in a C, 3er or IS and the younger folks won't be interested in a S, 7er or LS. That's just the way it is.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    Bingo, that is my snapshot of the IS buyer. It cheapened the Lexus name plate. I don't think some folks understand what it means to those that have the cash to buy an LS460 or S550, when they see a car like that with Lexus or Mercedes boldly displayed. The perception is, very negative. I know when we parked next to one of those Yugo looking little IS hatchbacks my wife could not believe how far Lexus had gone down hill. In her eyes that was what Lexus was now selling and she wanted nothing to do with them. She has all the money.

    By contrast Cadillac had a tuna boat image. They have added a very popular SUV that is popular across all age groups. It was a plus for them.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    The difference that I see is BMW started out with small good handling cars and went up in scale. Lexus went backward to try and please all groups. The GS is a flop if sales mean anything. The IS is not keeping up with the gains of the C class MB.

    And you are right. This has nothing to do with Cadillac. They are different kind of breed. I do not see much cross shopping.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,702
    My point was I'm not sure this guy is living in his means. I recall one person posting about someone having a good year and overspending on a Mercedes over in Storie From the Sales frontline.

    I didn't make it super clear but some of the brokers operating in the area may have a public area for customers but also do phone selling--as in some of those questionable scams you used to read about.

    This message has been approved.

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    No. Caddy's suppose to be the "standard of the world" and serves as domestics' MB, BMW, Lexus fighter. There is not a single entry in the entire Caddy line screams "affordable".

    These are all "affordable" to the market they are after. :P
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,644
    I don't see Cadillac shoppers as even remotely cross-shoppers of BMW.

    Perhaps cross-shoppers of Lexus, Acura, Lincoln and the Benz & Lexus SUVs--I could see that.

    I sure hope Cadillac isn't competing directly with BMW. If they were banking on those conquest sales, they'd be slaughtered.
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    I went here to read about Caddy. All I see is discussion of Lexus. Which fans are more obsessed about Toyota/Lexus? GM, MB or BMW?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,676
    It is a natural tendency to want to tout the car that in your mind is the standard of excellence for the world. That is why the other possible contenders are brought up. Cadillac seems the most willing to back up their cars with a good warranty. I want a car that lasts a long time in years, not a lot of miles. I can buy a near new Certified Cadillac and it includes a 6 year bumper to bumper 100k mile warranty. With zero deductible. The others I checked were not so generous with their warranty. Whether you spend $50k or $250k on a luxury car, they all fall short somewhere. They all lose a bigger percentage of their value sooner than when Cadillac was presented as the "Standard of Luxury" in the 1950s & 60s. I can remember people buying a new car in the 1950s and selling 5 years later for more than they paid new. A car was an investment in the past. Now it is a throw away item. Sad indictment on the auto industry as a whole.
  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,644
    You can partly blame the credit industry for that I think--which tends to not only make people bottoms up in their loans but also tends to devalue the object of desire. If you can lease a new Cadillac (or whatever luxury car) on a credit card, why would you pay a premium price for a used one?

    I realize nothing could be more boring for a younger person than to hear about the "old days" but Cadillac was really highly regarded in our culture---owning one was the object of outright jealousy and the average man on the street was genuinely impressed to see one. Why? Because they were conspicuously opulent compared to the shabby everyday cars most people drove (go look at a 1954 Chevy or Ford and then a 1954 Cadillac Eldo) and because the average working person couldn't possibly own one unless they stole it or stole money to get it.

    So the "currency" of luxury cars today is vastly inflated.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The DTS is closer in size to my current car and they made the STS way too small. Don't like the fact that there's a V-6 in the low-end STS either. It cheapens the car. The only thing I like about the STS is that it is RWD.

    Amen, Lemko!! You're right on. The DTS is also my favorite Cadillac as well, despite the FWD layout. It's also by far, the roomiest and most comfortable Cadillac made. There is still a market for that. I'm not sure it isn't the best looking as well. Frankly, you can't tell a CTS from an STS unless you're an expert.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The STS is not for everyone. It is supposed to be a luxury sports sedan. The CTS is an entry level sports sedan, not quite luxury. The next generation DTS on the zeta platform (probably) will be a larger RWD sedan than the current STS. I am not sure as to what GM/Cadillac plan on doing with the zeta platform line up. If the DTS remains in the current price range, then probably there will not be a quasi sports sedan version, or at least I think that the DTS should focus more on being a luxury barge for those who want that.

    The basic problem that I see at Cadillac is this: In the 60's and even the 70's the DeVille was a mid-level Cadillac, with a somewhat cheaper Calais at the bottom. The Fleetwood Sixty Special (also Brougham) was top of the line (setting aside the limos). The Eldorado was a Fleetwood model too, although started out as a series 62 I think. So the basic line up was Calais, deVille, Fleetwood models.

    When the Seville was introduced as a "small" Cadillac in the mid-70s, it was a Fleetwood model. So the Seville was a top of the line model. Cadillac did have some FWD Fleetwood models until the mid-90s when I think that they dropped them making the deVille the primary large sedan. The RWD Fleetwood (the old sixty special) was dropped at the end of 1996, which sort of put the Seville at the top of the line. However, the deVille models were expanded to include a luxury trim edition (DHS). The FWD Seville was replaced with the RWD STS on the premium sigma platform, which might make it top of the line, but with a V6 standard and no wood trim, the base STS is really more of a low end Cadillac not unlike the base DeVille (DTS). The V8 STS pricing gets quite expensive with the performance options, but this does not make it a top of the line model, as the interior is still much the same as the base V8 model.

    My point is this: Cadillac does not really have a top of the line sedan any more. I think that they should try to develop something similar to the old Fleetwood Sixty Special. Of course they might try adding a sedan in the same class as the old series 80 or 90 models, but I am not sure that Cadillac has the resources (someone who knows how) to do that.
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