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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    "Certainly not lack of willpower. GM does not pay any gaz guzzler fines and has decided not ever to"

    Caddy STS-v & STS V8 AWD both are assessed the
    Gas Guzzler Tax...
    2022 X3 M40i
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I don't remember paying a guzzler tax on my DTS. Maybe I didn't look closely or it doesn't have one.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    It doesn't. A mid power level V8 and FWD don't consume enough fuel to trigger the gas guzzler tax.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I certainly stand corrected. Things changed in 4 years when this rule was in effect. Probably another Lutz decision.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Don't forget the XLR.

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Parent General Motors says the CTS-V has lapped the Nurburgring circuit in Germany in under 8 minutes, potentially the fastest documented time for a production sedan.

    In recent weeks, the Nissan GT-R and Lexus LF-A supercars did a lap of the circuit in around 7 minutes 25 seconds. The Cadillac CTS-V was timed at 7:59:32.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Very impressive. About time.

    Regards,
    OW
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    A reporter is hoping to talk with consumers who bought purchased a car from 2004-2006 because of the incentives manufacturers were offering, such as employee pricing. Please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com before Friday, May 16, 2008 with your daytime contact information.

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  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043

    By Jamie Lareau
    June 23, 2008

    General Motors will unveil a Cadillac CTS wagon this fall in an effort
    to compete with BMW's 3 series and Mercedes C-class wagons.

    Cadillac intends to start production in 2009 for global sale. GM has
    shown a CTS coupe concept to be produced next year.

    Cadillac also plans to replace its current SRX crossover with a
    production version of the Provoq concept crossover as a 2010 model. The
    current SRX has suffered disappointing sales. Sources familiar with GM's
    plans say the re-engineered and restyled SRX will look similar to the
    Provoq, a hydrogen fuel cell concept.

    When the Provoq was shown in January, Cadillac General Manager Jim
    Taylor told Automotive News that a production version could do something
    the current SRX has failed to do: draw in female buyers. Taylor
    predicted a production Provoq could sell 60,000 to 70,000 units
    annually. Last year, Cadillac sold 22,543 units of the SRX in the United
    States.

    The current SRX is built on the Sigma architecture, also used for the
    CTS and STS. The next-generation SRX will be on a new architecture that
    is a blend of two GM front-wheel-drive architectures, Theta and Epsilon,
    and will likely be powered by a V-6 engine. In size it would be between
    the Saturn Vue and GM's Lambda-based crossovers such as the Buick
    Enclave.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Is it true that Cadillacs are a steal in the used car market? I've met a former Cadi salesman who claim that Cadillacs value depreciate big time, making them real killer deals. As an example, he told me that STS and SRX lost at least 40% of its value the first 3 years. DTS even worse, losing almost 50% in 3 years. However he recommend STS when considering cadillac since it has the best quality. If this is true, then I suppose 2ndhand Cadillacs are really worth a look. I'm no fan of domestic brands, but if STSs are that great of a value for money I'd consider it.

    I've also seen a few dealers selling NEW??? '06 and '07 STS, but no sticker. So I wonder if its really worth it. How much should I pay? Any infos appreciated. Thanks
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'm on my fifth Cadillac, (2007 DTS Performance) and they are most definitely worth it! A used one can be a great bargain. I'd just make sure the car had all its maintenance records and was well cared-for. The way a previous owner has cared for the car has a lot to do with it. I still have my 1989 Cadillac Brougham and it is still in excellent condition after 19 years and 157K miles.

    I'd also consider a new Buick Lucerne CXL as it is almost as nice as a Cadillac DTS.
  • irnmdnirnmdn Member Posts: 245
    Is it true that Cadillacs are a steal in the used car market?

    Some times yes. Many Cadillacs are pruchased by seniors who don;t live long enough to put enough miles on it, some won;t even get to see the first oil change. Buicks are even better deals in the regard.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    I saw a listing for an 06 STS-V (how rare is that?!) from a local Caddy dealer...but he wanted the same amount as an 06 E55 goes for (55K IIRC)...dealers of the make of the car always seem to want a lot.

    But the normal models do appear to be great used deals, low residual value and often they are driven sparingly and gently by their owners.
  • irnmdnirnmdn Member Posts: 245
    My local dealer is offering 20k off brand new 07 STS msrp $67k,
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Is that a V? That's a huge msrp.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    It isn't even worth $47K. Depreciation on that in 3 years will cost you another $20K.

    Regards,
    OW
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Someone suggest that I should be able to get the car at a used car price, about 55% off the new price. Is it possible? I mean that'll make a 50k STS a real steal at around 27-30k...
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    eBay Motors and Cars.com are both good places to see used/program cars that are available. I see little evidence that STS's are going cheaply. On new SRX's and STS's, there is a $3000 (SRX) or $3500 (STS) incentive or 0% interest.

    The program cars have been quite good pricewise in the past, so current prices seem to be inline with that.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Kelly Blue Book shows a 2006 sts V-8 with 40K miles ata aprivate party sale price of $22,160. This is the HIGHER value on the site vs. dealer trade in or book value.

    Yes, 50% is the norm for US car depreciation costs. With the V-8, you should be able to negotiate $20K no sweat! I see many at dealer sites for 2006 v-6 for $22K.

    Regards,
    OW
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Many said its rather inaccurate, higher than the real world value. Heck if KBB rate the used STS at 20k, the real price can be even lower.....
    A leftover new 06-07 v6 can be had for under 30k I heard, complete with new car warranty. Will that be a better deal than getting a used one? I'd definitely get a certified one (if used) for a mere 1k extra.

    Wait a sec, cicrlew, 22k for an '06 v6? Now I'm really interested. That is something even college grads can afford. I do however question the chances for resale, not the value (I expect them to plummet, maybe lose another 5k in 2 years?) but whether its easy, or even possible to sell.....

    I've only taken a good look once. Thought the interior is pretty nice though the fabric parts look downright cheap. Design is ok. Fuel mileage is a question though, anybody know the realtime mileage??
  • irnmdnirnmdn Member Posts: 245
    I don't think it is a V, it has everthing option like Bose5.1, magna ride etc.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Looking at the first 100 STS's listed on cars.com suggests that the price of the V-series is in the range of $40 to $50,000 for 2006 models. The STS is lower, but around $40,000. Jumping out to the middle of the 700 plus listed gets the price under $30,000, but these may be vehicles that are less than mint condition. Also some are clearly dealer come-on's to get a buyer into the showroom - requiring you to bring a printout of the ad to get the internet price.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Fell for it once - ONCE! A local dealer in Pensauken, NJ (you know the one) was advertising a two year-old Cadillac DeVille for only $9,999. I went over to see it and it was sold, of course. It also looked like it had been dumped in the Delaware River and then recovered a month later. Of course the friendly salesman was happy to show me the other pre-owned Cadillacs which were 2.5-3 times the price as the screamer ad special.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I am sure you could get a reasonable condition 2006 with 30 - 40 K miles for $20 - 22K. At the end of the day, you will need an extended warranty anyway so why pay in the $30K range.

    If not today than in August when oil breaks $150/bbl. theses prices will drop like stones.

    Regards,
    OW
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The current oil price expectation are that the 4th of July weekend will push prices beyond $150.

    Some dealers include the 6 year 100,000 certified used warranty on program cars. There are quite a few 2006's available as many are now coming off lease. When I was looking for a 2006 at the end of the 2006 model year (an SRX) there were not a lot available, and my local dealer who said they could get one at a low price, did not come through with anything for several months. I finally realized that the 2007 was probably a better choice and bought a new one with everything I wanted. Never been smoked in :shades:
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    If the STS still cost 40k I'd look somewhere else. If I'm gonna spend that much I'd better buy a Lexus Infiniti or Audi. They have better quality and resale value. I personally find Cadillac too arrogant to push the STS' price too close to the Japanese and German luxo midsizes (charging 55k for STS v6 when a 535i cost about the same).

    "I am sure you could get a reasonable condition 2006 with 30 - 40 K miles for $20 - 22K. At the end of the day, you will need an extended warranty anyway so why pay in the $30K range"

    Umm, because the leftover 06 is brand new, includes 4 yr new car warranty and got only 130 miles on odometer. Btw I heard a mint 06 STS with low mileage will only cost about 3-5k extra.

    "Also some are clearly dealer come-on's to get a buyer into the showroom - requiring you to bring a printout of the ad to get the internet price"

    Why not? I'd bring a printout anytime if it means I can save a few thousands.

    Btw when it comes to resale, is it easier to sell the leftover or the used one? Which will plummet worse? Any ideas? I wonder how much I'll lose every year.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    If you like the car, does it really matter? You're saving more upfront anyway. I really don't give a rip about resale value as I keep my cars a long time and believe buying a car you don't like just because it's got better resale value is still wasting your money. Two things a Cadillac does have over a German car is that it is far more reliable and a lot more cost-effective to have it serviced and repaired.

    As per Lexus, buy a Buick Park Avenue and save the money. A Lexus LS drives just like one.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Btw when it comes to resale, is it easier to sell the leftover or the used one? Which will plummet worse? Any ideas? I wonder how much I'll lose every year.

    Once you buy the "new" one, it is a used car and will be worth only what the trade in value is when you want to sell/trade.

    If you actually know where a new 2006 is, then whatever deal you can work out with that dealer is what is possible. I also found a new SRX at one point that was a year old (2005 or maybe 04), but the dealership had decided they would use the vehicle themselves rather than sell at market value.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    AP
    Ford Motor's June sales skid 27.9 percent
    Tuesday July 1, 12:28 pm ET
    By Tom Krisher and Dee-Ann Durbin, AP Auto Writers
    Ford Motor's June sales drop 27.9 percent as high gas prices, sluggish economy take toll.

    DETROIT (AP) -- Ford Motor Co. says its U.S. sales tumbled 27.9 percent in June as high gas prices and a weak economy deepened the trouble facing the company.

    The company blames the decline on high gas prices and low consumer confidence that are sending buyers to the sidelines. Ford reports steep drops in sales of pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles.

    For the first half of the year, Ford's sales were down 14 percent compared with the year-ago period.

    Ford is the first automaker to report sales data Tuesday. Industry analysts expect June to be a dismal month for the industry with sales down double digits from last June.

    They also say Toyota Motor Corp. may take the U.S. sales lead from General Motors Corp.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Breaking news from the WSJ indicates that GM will continue to hold the crown:

    "General Motors posts nearly 19% drop in U.S. sales for June, but wards off challenge to No. 1 ranking from Toyota."
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Anyone know Caddy sales vs. Big 3 germans and asians?

    Regards,
    OW
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Cadillac: 14,337

    Acura: 12,456
    Audi: 8,203
    BMW: 20,944
    Infiniti: 9,304
    Lexus: 20,253
    Lincoln: 9,718
    Mercedes Benz: 19,576
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Excellent. 4th place in June is not bad. BMW takes the month I assume with good 3'er sales.

    Regards,
    OW
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Member Posts: 2,770
    I am sure you could get a reasonable condition 2006 with 30 - 40 K miles for $20 - 22K. At the end of the day, you will need an extended warranty anyway so why pay in the $30K range.

    Why would you need an extended warranty?? Our Rainier's 3/36 ran out in 11/06, and has yet to cost me a dime??? My '99 Ultra has been in for ONE repair in 6 years, a MAF sensor, at a total cost of $250. Everything else has been routine maint. Tires, brakes, rotors, tune-up, and oil changes. A couple other things broke (door handle, seat belt latch, fuel line) but I replaced them myself.

    This car, while not the most impressive thing I've owned, has cost me about $1250 in 6 years. $500 for tires, $250 for a fender (my fault).

    When you take into account the $250 for the sensor, that leaves $250 for everything else-IN 6 YEARS!!!

    Warranty? What Warranty???
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Thats not bad. I wonder what happened to Audi though, I heard sales has been rising significantly but the numbers dont seem to agree.

    sls, as far as I know its because a "new" leftover car is considered a used car with very low mileage and new car warranty.

    Two things a Cadillac does have over a German car is that it is far more reliable and a lot more cost-effective to have it serviced and repaired.

    That I agree. The cadi's really cheap to maintain, beaten only by BMW with its standard 4 yr free maintenance. I figure I'd lose another 5k over 2 years, which is very reasonable. I dont know if I'd love the car, as this is the 1st time I'm considering a domestic brand.
    But $25k for a certified 06 STS? I figure I'll take that bet, since a 3 yr old 300c cost about the same, and that kind of money buys me only a much older german lux sedan.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Because my 2003 "Professional Grade Denali has racked up over $3,000 of repairs so far in 59K miles. All within the 40 K range!!!!!!

    That's why.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The value proposition does work for a 3 year old Caddy. My problem is the styling, however. I could just forget about it...at these prices.

    Regards,
    OW
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Again, the dealer with the new leftover car from a previous model year can try to get as much for it as they want. All you can do is make an offer which the dealer is free to reject. Cars.com has 750 2006 STS's listed. This one is about $40,000 with 200 miles on it.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Youre right about dealers can charge whatever they want. Its up to us whether we'll buy it or not. A new 06 for 40k, but a certified used 06 for 25k, its no contest.

    circle, the styling left me a bit cold too, and it might not suit younger buyers like me. But like I said, for this price, I dont mind. 25k for certified 06, the same as 06 Chrysler 300c with much crappier interior and build quality, and a little less than a (far) smaller 06 bmw 330i.

    I'll invest a little more $$$ on non-chrome 18-19" wheels (gosh the wheels are cheesy) and aftermarket grill. That should fix it.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    This is the first under $25,000 STS on cars.com. It has less than 6000 miles which is not bad for a 2006. It is about 500 cars into the listings of more than 750.

    Here is a V for under $10,000, a real "steal". I suggest that you read the description carefully ;)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Geeze! You're essentially buying just a shell! You also have two busted windows, a trashed interior, and no radio. I guess if you can find another engine/transmission you can turn it into a racer.
  • trimastertrimaster Member Posts: 163
    Is it true that Cadillacs are a steal in the used car market? I've met a former Cadi salesman who claim that Cadillacs value depreciate big time, making them real killer deals. As an example, he told me that STS and SRX lost at least 40% of its value the first 3 years. DTS even worse, losing almost 50% in 3 years.

    Wow. Is that something Caddy is proud of? What about the poor sap who bought it new?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I guess that poor sap must be me! Well, I keep my cars quite a while so depreciation is really no concern to me. My first concern I buying the car I like. I've said it countless times in these forums - buying a car you don't like just because it has better resale value is still throwing money away in my book! I plan on keeping my DTS for some time. It's got more than I'll ever need in a car. The stuff in my 1988 Buick Park Avenue is sufficient for me. Why is resale such a concern in the first place? Geeze, if the car you bought is so great, why would you want to get rid of it so quickly? I put down enough and pay more than the minimum each month so I stay way ahead of the depreciation curve. The excellent thing I have with my new DTS is that it's financing with 0% interest so I'm even further ahead.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I put down enough and pay more than the minimum each month so I stay way ahead of the depreciation curve. The excellent thing I have with my new DTS is that it's financing with 0% interest so I'm even further ahead.

    That's all nice and good as long as no one runs into you in the next three or four years. If the DTS gets totaled and the insurance company cuts you a check for $18,000, you might not be so happy with Cadillac resale figures. I hope you have gap insurance.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Yes, I have gap insurance and I will be taking that and the $18K check straight to the Cadillac dealer for a replacement in such an event!
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Not sure where your $18,000 is coming from, but cars.com suggests that a 2006 DTS ranges in retail value from somewhere around $35,000 to much less. The median priced (about #400 out of 800+) is about $26,000. Insurance companies should total the car for something more than the lowest NADA book value but perhaps not retail.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Looking at a dealer site a typical new M5 runs about $95,000 list. 2006 M5's (with the V10) vary in price but are easily $30,000 less and upwards of $40,000 to $50,000 less at the low end (where mint condition is least likely).

    This point being that BMW's depreciate too, not just Cadillacs. The six cylinder 5 series models look to be about $15 to 20,000 less than new for 2006 models compared to the base price. Assuming some optional equipment, the actual depreciation is perhaps $10,000 more, say about $25,000 on a new price of $60,000.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    think about it, it is amazing to me that ANY car holds any value after 2 years...try selling used furniture or a stereo 2 years after purchase, and both of them are probably closer to brand new condition than any car you might buy, yet they are barely worth 10 cents on the dollar...

    We all whine about car depreciation, but we ought to be lucky that our cars don't lose value like our furniture...
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    ..for now.

    GM mulling thousands of job cuts, sale of brands: report

    link title

    How those that affect resale values now?

    Regards,
    OW
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Cadillac has moved into what is Buick's price range with the CTS. Pontiac's are mostly the same thing as Chevies. I think GM could go with a basic line of Chevy/Cadillac.

    Resale values will depend more on if GM will be around to service the warranty. However, selling a new Buick once GM decides to terminate Buick will be hard.
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