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Point taken. This thread started with your post 5142, we shouldn't have let ourselves get off Cadillack in this forum...
Clearly to be the standard of the world they would have to be recognized as such in Europe and Asia.
I'm guessing that the closest makes to that standard that aren't tiny niche makes are BMW and Mercedes. So Cadillac would need to be able to compete as an equal to those brands.
They have made a good start in the past few years but they would need to:
1 - Add a smaller model than the CTS that can go head to head with the BMW 3 series (rumored)
2 - Improve their high end offerings to be viewed as competitive or superior to the BMW 7 series and/or Mercedes S class.
3 - Maintain and continue to improve their quality, technology, and reliability through successive refinements to these vehicles.
The one thing that Cadillac has going for it to accomplish this is the weak dollar. They could conceivably be more competitive overseas with American made cars due to a cost advantage. They need to have the vehicles and establish good dealer networks overseas. I also suspect they need to have right-side drive versions of these world-class vehicles for markets like Japan, Australia, and the UK.
The difficulty in doing this is the current financial and competitive position of GM. It's going to continue to cost a lot of money to make major improvements in their vehicles. We all agree (I think) that the CTS comes closest to being there, but that is not a full lineup, especially for non-US markets. I don't see them wanting Escalades in Japan!
No car can be a standard to all people. The car that you purchase, that is your standard.
It's well past my bedtime, but I'm actually working... So, I'm not sure of my coherency here...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
To return Cadi to that position will require more than just one good product, CTS. The Northstar is a start, the newfound ride and handling too, but it takes more, and time. Try to catch up with lesser divas first, like Acura and Infiniti, then target BMW and MB later on.
I dont see them wanting Escalades in Japan
Well, I see them wanting Escalades in China, especially Shanghai. Escalades, H2s and Chrysler 300cs are everywhere there.
It's not fair to put Caddy in the same field as Bentley or Rolls. Ultra Luxury really.
BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, Lexus, Infinity is more a level playing field. In this field, Caddy is not the standard. Period.
Can they ever really top this class?
Regards,
OW
In reference to personal luxury:
Decline
American 'personal luxury' cars began to die out in the late 1980s as younger buyers moved toward imported European and Japanese cars, or toward sport utility vehicles. After years of steadily declining sales, the Oldsmobile Toronado died after 1992, the Lincoln Mark after 1998, the Buick Riviera after 1999 and the Cadillac Eldorado after 2002.
Nevertheless, conceptually similar imports from Japanese manufacturers like Lexus SC and Infiniti and European marques like BMW and Mercedes continue to sell well, even though their vehicles tend to be higher priced than their former American counterparts.
Here's what Wkipedia has on luxury car definition:
Luxury vehicle is a marketing term for a vehicle that provides luxury — that which is beyond strict necessity — in exchange for increased cost to the buyer.
The term suggests a vehicle with greater equipment, performance, construction precision, comfort, design ingenuity, technological innovation, or features that convey brand image, caché, status, or prestige — or any other discretionary feature or combination of features.
The term may be applied to any body style — from minivan to convertible, crossover or sport utility vehicle — and to any size vehicle, from small to large.[1]
Though widely used, the term is broad, highly variable, ambiguous and abstruse — and lacks both measurability or verifiability. "What is a luxury car to some.. may be ‘ordinary’ to others." [1]
In some nations such Australia, a luxury car is defined as one whose value exceeds a certain threshold[2] (see: Luxury Car Tax).[3] while in Portugal, a luxury car is defined by the cubic capacity of the engine.[citation needed]
So Caddy is not the one standard of the world. Never was, never will be.
Regards,
OW
I think Cadillac was at one time (in the 50's and 60's) a car that a lot of Americans would have named as the one to own if they were rich enough. Hence, the saying "this is the Cadillac of ___", This of course is not really enough to make a car of today the standard of the world, but should be part of the definition. BMW's are recognized world wide in some circles as desirable cars. However, BMW does not dominate the luxury car market world wide.
That's the current reality. The past is gone but not forgot! Not by a long shot. That's the key reason Caddy lost it's way. It forgot!!!!!!!
Regards,
OW
Cadillac is the standard to me! I can at least count on it to get me to work in the morning, I can count on everything working properly, and it won't cause me to file for bankruptcy any time it needs to be serviced or repaired like those cherished German marques.
I've actually owned Cadillacs and I have very low tolerance for defects. A burned-out bulb drives me bananas, so why would I want to tolerate even more serious problems year after year? At least I can speak from experience. Everything else is just rumor and speculation.
So, if I get a lemon, I am sending the repair bill to you... :P
Not badge-engineering today, just platform sharing. And most mfgs do it so no harm there. Just start with good platforms.
"Cadillac is the standard to me! " And that was my original point. You are correct for you, no argument. The only car that is a standard to me is the one I buy. Right now, Acura TL is The Standard.
You've had wonderful GM cars, fabulous. I've owned/driven GM/Ford/Chrysler/Nissan/Acura/Saab/Lexus/Mitsubishi. My experience? The Japanese cars have been better built and more reliable. Not to say the domestics have been unreliable, just not as reliable as the Japanese. Loved my Chrysler 300M. But, the TL is screwed together significantly better and has been more trouble free. Just a fact.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
But for me, not so standard.
Regards,
OW
This is a more recent long term study done in 2007 (most recent) for 2004 model year cars (my previous post was released in 2005 for 2002 models). Note that the industry average has improved from 237 to 216. Ford now has more than the average (221) but is better than before (231). Buick now matchs Lexus.
Who are you going to believe? Data based on a huge pool of data or some guy on the internet that has owned less than 20 cars? I go with the guy on the internet every time :P I mean he did confirm his results by talking to other people.
In reality if you look at the data there sure is not much difference between them anymore.
So lets find some other way of bashing american cars. Hey lets use gas mileage!
Regards,
OW
OK I guess that makes sense. :P
Overall GM cars are well up in June over last year. They are selling very well, especially the smaller ones that are in vogue now. (in fact the reason many cars did not increase volume was due to lack of inventory because they wer sold out in previous months) What is killing GM is the drop in truck sales, as is it for all companies offering trucks (even Toyota as much as GM). Should GM have not engineered and sold all those trucks in the past? No, in fact most every major make was ramping up truck capacity.
Cts up 16% over last year.
STS up 12%
Cobalt up 22%
Malibu up 74%
G6 up 34%
Vibe up 25%
Aura up 25%
Sky up 44%
SRX up 12%
Equinox up 46%
HHr up 24%
Vue up 25%
Even the venerable Toyota is likely to see another drop. Meantime, the combined market share of Detroit's three automakers is expected to hit a near-record low of 44.4 percent, down from 49.4 percent in July 2007 and from 46.4 percent in June 2008. The only time it was lower was in May when it fell to 44.3 percent.
Edmunds.com predicts GM will sell 266,000 units in July 2008, down 15.7 percent compared to July 2007 and up 1.3 percent from June 2008. GM's market share is expected to be 21.1 percent of new vehicle sales in July 2008, down from 24.2 percent in July 2007 and down from 22.2 percent in June 2008.
Edmunds.com predicts Honda will sell 160,000 units in July 2008, up 13.3 percent from July 2007 and up 12.1 percent from June 2008. Honda's market share is expected to be 12.7 percent in July 2008, up from 10.8 percent in July 2007 and up from 12.0 percent in June 2008.
Edmunds.com predicts Nissan will sell 88,000 units in July 2008, up 0.2 percent from July 2007 and up 16.0 percent from June 2008. Nissan's market share is expected to be 7.0 percent in July 2008, up from 6.7 percent in July 2007 and up from 6.4 percent in June 2008.
Edmunds.com predicts Toyota will sell 217,000 units in July 2008, down 3.3 percent from July 2007 and up 12.1 percent from June 2008. Toyota's market share is expected to be 17.2 percent in July 2008, even from 17.2 percent in July 2007 and up from 16.3 percent in June 2008.
Regards,
OW
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Long answer: when a vehicle comes back off-lease, the finance company sells it at auction, hoping that it gets as much or more than the residual value of the lease (the lease payments being the difference between the sale price and the residual, plus a little bit extra). The domestic finance companies have a lot of truck and SUV lease returns that are selling at $10, 20, or $30,000 less than the residual value (when they sell at all), so they simply don't have the cash to roll over into new leases and no one else is going to loan them that money. So, now they have either quit leasing altogether or set the residuals to current pitiful market value, making the lease payments so much higher that no one would want to lease.
Regards,
OW
The problem is, they keep rebadging their cars. They have too many cars, I feel thats why they slack on overall quality.
GMAC Financial Services said Tuesday that it will no longer offer leasing-related incentives in Canada, citing market conditions in the country and recent steep drops in used vehicle residual values.
GMAC spokeswoman Gina Proia said GMAC will suspend Canadian incentivised lease offers effective Aug. 1, but will continue offer standard rate leases in the country.
The news, which was conveyed to dealers on Monday, follows Chrysler LLC's announcement that its financial arm will get out of the U.S. automotive leasing business by the end of the month. The Auburn Hills, Mich.-based automaker also cited the decline in used truck and sport utility vehicle values.
Wholesale prices of used pickup trucks dropped 11.2 percent during the second quarter, while wholesale SUV prices fell 9.6 percent, according to National Automobile Dealers Association AuctionNet data released by the NADA's Used Car Guide.
Both Chrysler Financial and GMAC are owned by Cerberus Capital Management LP. The private equity firm owns 80.1 percent of Chrysler and a 51 percent stake in GMAC.
They aren't the only automakers hurt by increases in leasing costs. Ford Motor Co. said last week that its credit arm took a $2.1 billion charge during the second quarter because of the drop in the residual values of leased trucks and SUVs.
Proia said that as of Tuesday, no similar announcement had been made concerning U.S. GMAC leases.
Salesman approaches and I do believe it is the same one who "snubbed" me last Friday. Asks what I think of the car. I give him the general, "mid-life crisis, just looking, rather have an '06 with dark wood in the interior" speech. He smiles, mentions the black '06 (that appeared to have the top trouble last week), but I shan't own a black car. He congenially said I'm welcome back anytime to shop, window or otherwise. Nice.
I mention, as we're parting, that the left front quarter panel is separating from the frame. He looks stunned, said no, he actually sold this car three years ago and it has been meticulously maintained by this dealer... He walks around to the driver's side and looks down. Looks up at me and smiles, "Thanks for alerting me to this." De nada, amigo.
Ok, two XLRs within a week. One with a recalcitrant top, the second has the body separating from the frame (looked to me like the glue holding it on had simply dried up). Again, are the Car Gods trying to tell me something? Isn't GM quality Job 1? Or is GM quality an oxymoron... :P
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Its good to find someone finally agreeing to my idea that Cadillac should be compared to something in its class (bmw, lexus etc) rather than Rolls and Maybach...
The debate's really heating up rapidly its fun to watch, keep at it guys (and ladies)
Thanks for alerting me to this, by the way!
Regards,
OW
To me, the only car Caddy produces that can be compared favorably to MBMWEXUS is the CTS. Sharp car, except for the overly blinged front end... And I'm too old and square to use the term, "blinged..."
Good to see you here, there and everywhere, OW.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Regards,
OW
It's a shame they can't make the President's limo attractive and proportioned despite all that armor. Looks like it could take a few RPG hits. That rear door looks as thick as one on a bank vault
Regards,
OW
I recall around that time Cadillac used a V-6. If it was the same V-6 that's in my 1988 Buick Park Avenue, it has more guts than the 4100! It's rated at 165 hp and I think the 4100 only had like 120.
The 4100 was slower than my German Shepherd and my minibike at the time!
But, put the current Northstar V-8 in the 1984 FWB and you would have a real plush and fast living room! I used to love mixing and matching engines in different cars...like the 454 Nova!
Memories!
Regards,
OW
Likewise I think CTS is the only decent cadillac to date. The front end is, um... blinged to say the least. Ugly to be exact, its all good but the grill totally ruin it.
Can absolutely believe 3.6, most likely with a turbo or charger. Already on the shelf 6 years ago. Was a possible engine for a LaCrosse Super before they went cheap and went with the already developed V8.
Regards,
OW