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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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Comments

  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Sure, this interior is nice. Cadillac's is also nice, and more attractive to me, but I am not the sort that would cross shop a Cadillac and a Hyundai, at any price, or any level. Many will differ, but the Hyundai Genesis would cross shop an Impala for me - a nice one. It may win over the Impala, but if I'm in the market for luxury, I won't go to the Hyundai store, no matter how nice it is. If I'm like my father, who felt that upscale brands were a waste of money, and always bought nice Fords and Chevys, but never Lincolns or Cadillacs, even though he could afford to. He may have liked a Genesis. I would prefer the Cadillac.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,178
    ...the interior in my girlfriend's LaCrosse is nicer than that Genesis. I just love the "I-Drive" knock-off.

    Going to a Hyundai dealer for a luxury car is like expecting filet mignon and Dom Perignon at McDonald's. I can imagine the luxury buyer negotiating the terms for a Genesis in the cubicle next to one in which a credit-challenged dude who works part-time at Wal~Mart is begging for financing on a stripped Accent.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,377
    Let's see who will and who won't. Time will tell if Hyundai wil win over Caddy buyers.

    The Genesis looks nicer than the DTS or the STS, IMO.

    Impala?...Perhaps this vintage

    image

    NOT today's bland appliance!

    Regards,
    OW
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Posts: 1,491
    by far the nicest Hyunday interior ever. I still doubt anyone will ever cross shop a Genesis with similarly priced Acura and Infiniti. I mean a $36k hyunday??? Koreans themselves may do so, but anyone else? I doubt it.

    This is similar to the Japanese. The toyota crown majesta or dynasty cost an amazing $80k+ (when you convert the currency). Even Toyota reps think noone else but the locals will pull that much for a toyota. They're being sensible, I'm not sure Hyunday is doing the same.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,377
    I think the same $70K for a spiffed-up Chevy Tahoe??? The Escalade will go out of style faster the the Genesis sales will grow.

    While I might agree this will take time, I saw the car up close and a $36K Gen will get my money in a heartbeat faster then a $46K DTS.

    image

    image

    Regards,
    OW

    Regards,
    OW
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,178
    IMO the Genesis looks like something the Chinese cobbled together from spare parts lying around from other knock-offs of well-known luxury cars. I saw the car in person at the Philadelphia Auto Show and it was hardly nicer than a Sonata with the same cheap-looking materials.

    Genesis a luxury car? Yeah, I'll be seeing these ads on television marketed toward the underemployed and credit-challenged between Jerry Springer and Maury Povich:

    "$99 down, $99 a month on a new Hyundai Genesis at the Cherry Hill Triplex!"
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,178
    I'd have to smoke crack rocks the size of boulders, smoke blunts as big as telephone poles, shoot up all the heroin on the street, and drink the entire Jack Daniels distillery to even think the Genesis was even remotely as prettier than the DTS.

    The Genesis looks like a Maxima with Pep Boys wheels and a Chinese-designed front-end. I guess this is what a Chinese knock-off of a Lexus ES would look like. You'd pay $36K for a Hyundai? It isn't worth $16K to me.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    While I might agree this will take time, I saw the car up close and a $36K Gen will get my money in a heartbeat faster then a $46K DTS.

    I can completely believe that and so will anyone one who knows your preferences. But then again you are in our own reality. :P

    Escalade still sold almost 3000 units in July. That is 36,000 units per year. While not the same as last year there are still lots of buyers out there in this $4 / gallon gas and drop in overall economy.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,377
    I get it, I get it! Relax!

    Affordable luxury isn't perfect! I guess Caddy got it right in design for you for sure!

    Regards,
    OW
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Your opinion has piqued my interest OW....I'm sure there are others out there like you who are captivated by the Genesis, and it will probably sell pretty well. But since your profile is private, may I ask you what you drive now? Maybe I can figure out who the target customer is for the Gen.....
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,377
    I am sure they will sell the $72K Hybrids to someone. Just not a lot of folks who know better.

    In any event, Caddy need a whole heck of a lot of work to change it's image to most US luxury buyers.

    With respect to reality, some share mine!

    Name Brand, Outlet Mall Price

    The 2009 Hyundai Genesis V6 is a thoroughly thought-out example of the modern luxury car, a careful assembly of all the features and all the performance that make a car special rather than just ordinary. It's everything we expect.

    We're not suggesting Hyundai is ready to steal customers away from BMW or Mercedes-Benz, but Cadillac and Lexus are within reach, we think. With Cadillac and Lexus, the issue of value is as important as refinement, and in this the $36,000 Hyundai Genesis V6 makes a major statement.

    Genesis to Eat Caddy's Lunch!

    Have fun reading the test! ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    In the mid 80's the Maxima was a very nice car and many thought a much better buy than a Cadillac. While I think the picture (which does not allow me to feel the quality of the materials) of the Genisis interior looks good, I think that the Genesis's interior is far more likely to look good to Toyota Camry or Avalon owners. Is the wood trim real? There is not much of it, which suggests that it might be real. The dash has no wood trim, real or plastic. This is more of a Buick to my eye. The Maxima for all of its magnificence in the mid-80's has not displaced Cadillac. Of course Nissian did bring out the Infinity's after that.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    I see that the "wood" trim is really plastic. On Cadillac's the wood is real. Not that this really matters if the plastic trim is truly top notch.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Your comments tend to substantiate my hypothesis that the Genesis is going to cross-appeal to Impala, Maxima, Avalon, even Buick shoppers, and may do very well with that segment. I still can't see it shaving off sales from a Lexus, Cadillac or Mercedes/BMW buyer.... Just because the Hyundai is ridiculously expensive like a Cadillac, doesn't make it a Cadillac.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    "While I might agree this will take time, I saw the car up close and a $36K Gen will get my money in a heartbeat faster then a $46K DTS."

    It may get YOUR money, but judging from the responses to your rah-rahing of a Hyundai, there is still an issue of perception w/ Hyundai, the same many have with GM. They draw the same line from the Excel to the Genesis that you draw between the Cimmarron and the CTS, and are saying "HOW much......for a WHAT????"

    BTW, nice try, comparing a car on a 10 year old frame to something designed on a clean slate.

    According to your article, they are offering things that Buick has been offering for at LEAST 5 yrs (laminated glass) to OVER 15 YRS (dual zone climate control).

    Welcome to the club buddy, it sure took you long enough to get here.
  • And he'd be right if he was in the auto buying market of today where a fool and his money so often part....Hyundai is one of the few companies that is showing smart consumers they don't need to spend $50,000 on a car to have all that they offer and more.... You have to Rethink the way you think in order experience what you otherwise would never know, not just true with car but every aspect of life. I'm glad Hyundai built the Genesis, I just got back from seeing one moments ago, and the car makes one hell of a statement!
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,645
    I'm with you here, OW. Beauty is in the eye, of course and given the pix posted above, for the Genesis I see nice, derivative of a few other mid-lux sedan, style. The DTS? Not good, not bad, just no style. A bit of a slab-sided three box, somewhat bejeweled appliance. I've always seen it that way, would have (if I was a Caddy type of guy) always purchased an STS over the DTS...

    I probably would not purchase either as neither is a decent mid-life crisis mobile! Back to stalking XKs....

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,377
    I never said I would buy it unless the other 2 alternatives were death and buying a DTS! Then, in a heartbeat, the Genesis.

    Buick is a bland appliance with good quality. Genesis is a refreshing concept that will work finish off Buick and probably Caddy...

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,377
    Agreed. The point is exactly as you put it. It's about the car. I could have been a Caddy Guy but no passion, NO SALE!!

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Buick is a bland appliance with good quality.

    I think that that will change quickly. The new Enclave is anything but bland and is selling pretty darn well to families of every age. Old LaCrosse is bland but the new one is far from it.

    http://www.forbesautos.com/gallery/2008/buick/enclave/

    And the new LaCrosse is also stunning. Leaked photos prove that Buick’s Invicta concept will become the new LaCrosse.

    http://bp2.blogger.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/SAo-Bu5gK9I/AAAAAAAApns/5KpetawukUk/s1600-h/- BUICK_INC-0.jpg

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/latest_news_reviews/2- - 010_buick_lacrosse_exclusive_photos_spied+view-photos.html
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,377
    I agree, Enclave is the best thing out of Buick in years...my wife wants one put is put off by GM quality issues with here current professional ride.

    As for the Invicta, I saw some spy shots and the LC replacement does not come close to the concept. This photo is not that great but IMO looks like a disappointment because the concept was inspiring.

    image

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    As for the Invicta, I saw some spy shots and the LC replacement does not come close to the concept. This photo is not that great but IMO looks like a disappointment because the concept was inspiring.

    The concept car IS the new LaCrosse. No sheet metal was modified. Same headlamps and taillamps. I believe the Invicta had larger wheels and slightly different mirrors (same was also done for the 2005 LaCrosse concept car, I did it). The Invicta is a prototype LaCrosse.

    Can you tell me how the heck you got the picture to post? How did you get a separate photo link?
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,377
    62, right click on the picture and choose "copy image location" in a separate browser window. (Make sure it is not more then 600 x 480. You can upload it to your carspace photoalbums and it will format correctly to fit the boards correctly).

    Then, in the message, open the image control by clicking "img" button. It will turn red indicating it is open. Position the insertion point next to the opened image indicator in the message, right click and choose paste. Then, click "img" again button to close. It will appear normal once again.

    Hope it works for you.

    Regards,
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,178
    Wow! I hope the real LaCrosse looks as good as that concept. My '88 Park Ave is getting a bit long in the tooth! Maybe girlfriend wants a new ride?
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,377
    This is a nice concept and I previously showed interest. I am assuming this will not be the exact production model, however.

    Glad to see posts worked!

    Regards,
    OW
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    I am assuming this will not be the exact production model, however.

    Not sure what you mean by this? The concept IS the production vehicle except for the mirrors and wheels (exterior). And perhaps the grille has a different finish though there could be different models/grill treatments. I also see some differences in the front fascia but again that may be because of the model we saw in the spy shot. I also see they took out the amber in the front lamps. Have to have that in the production vehicle. But again the metal is the same.

    Since I did not see the actual interior I cannot be sure what they did. On the 2005 LaCrosse concept there were no grained tools so we had to use a graining source to mock in the grain on all the parts (IP, door trim, garnish, etc.)

    Yea, I did not know to open the pic in a new window. thanks
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,377
    OK. This could be nice when it bows for real. It's got promise!

    Regards,
    OW
  • robbiegrobbieg Posts: 327
    I agree that Buick sedans are the not the most exciting cars. I think the Genesis will poach buyers from Buick, Caddy and Chryler. Maybe even Toyota Avalon buyers. A Hyundai dealer once told me that a lot of Azerra buyers were former Cadillac owners. I think Lexus, and to a lessor extent Infiniti, has been a hit because a Lexus started off much cheaper than BMW and was a new "upscale" brand. With the Genesis all Hyundai has is a cheaper model. Like it or not Cadillac sedans have become the Lexus of 1990, a cheaper alternative to today's upscale brands Mercedes, BMW, Audi and Lexus. The problem is that they aren't cheap enough. In my opinion a CTS is a alternative to a Acura TL or an Infiniti G35 not a 5 series or a E class.
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