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Is Cadillac's Image Dying and Does Anyone Care?

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  • aldwaldw Posts: 82
    After reading and seeing this, I do know Cadillac is far closer to the Standard of the World than the naysayers are capable of acknowledging:

    http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/country/acf/newsID/2061110.009/cadillac/cad- illac-sls-at-auto-china-2006
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,071
    ...to anything outside a new Cadillac or Buick, it's a classic 1940s, 1950s, or 1960s model. Other cars I would like are something like a 1961-65 Lincoln Continental or even a 1960 Imperial Crown limousine by Ghia. A 1957 Chrysler 300-C would be another choice. I'd also consider just about any 1960s Mopar or GM muscle car. One Mercedes I would truly be comfortable with is something like a 1991 560SEL. This car represents M-B when it was truly at the top of its game.
  • robbiegrobbieg Posts: 323
    I agree with you that Cadillac is turning the ship around slowly. The CTS was/is an okay car. The problem with it is the interior which is blown away by Lexus, Acura, MB, Audi and even BMW. The new STS is a pretty nice car and it has a better interior. Clearly, this is a step forward but Lexus has a new GS, the 5 series has been replaced, and the Infiniti M has been remodeled after only a few unsuccessful model years. Therefore, it seems as if Cadillac is always playing catch up.

    For some reason, I don't think that Cadillac wants to compete with Lexus or BMW. Maybe it is because they feel that they have to price their cars cheaper (after discounts and rebates) than the other luxury brands or maybe they feel that they can't bring in a better car a cheaper price.

    Lastly, I just don't get the DTS. Is Cadillac still trying to lure former Oldsmobile buyers? What is the competition for this car, the Avalon? A person under 40 would not be be caught dead in this car.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    The SLS is a step in the right direction, but it also illustrates the contempt that GM and Ford have for their home market. China gets the SLS, Royaum, and a good LaCrosse, while we get underwhelming semi-efforts that seem to exist primarily to keep the dealer network from suing.
  • Meh. It is no secret that GM is doing well in China. How bout the homeland? The all new STS sales are weak, the SRX bombed, the DTS is the same ol same ol and the CTS is waiting a redo. The XLR is no match for the SL even with the V-series which nobody is going to shell out 6 figures for a Corvette. The Escalade is Caddy's saving grace at the moment because the Rap world and the NBA think Excess + Gaudy = Class.

    Seems to me that if you can't even make it in your home country, you've got a problem.
  • jkr2106jkr2106 Posts: 231
    I'll go you one further: my grandfather is 71 and he said HE wouldn't be caught dead in this car. ;)
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    The DTS is the last of the FWD Cadillac's. In the mid-eighties GM went to FWD for their large sedans to greatly improve fuel economy. At the time that they were designed, this was a good plan. The DTS will probably continue in production until about 2010, when a replacement might make sense. The replacement will probably be a RWD platform.
  • sidvsidv Posts: 63
    I really doubt GM can make Cadillac any sort of meaningful world standard anytime soon. Thirty odd years of bean counter, cars-as-a-commodity mentality ruling the culture instead of pride in making stellar automobiles fueled by innovative engineering has taken its toll. There's just too much negative inertia and the competition has come too far, too fast, since the advent of Lexus and Infiniti and (some) European marque's competitive responses.

    Of course anything is possible given enough time but current dynamics at GM and the market don't bode well for Cadillac making the great strides it would take for Cadillac to become a "world standard", whatever that is.
  • was it ever the world standard? If it was, the the answer to will it be again is no....

    Gotta go, I smell 1487 coming........
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Now I seen where you say that others are living in the past when it comes to Cadillac, but you're doing the same thing when it comes to Mercedes.

    The W126 560SEL was a great car, but today's S550 surpasses it any way you could think of. Sure the outgoing W220 S430 wasn't Mercedes at its best, but this ranting about how badly Mercedes has fallen is just as tired and outdated as people harping about wire wheels and cloth tops on Cadillacs.

    You should take a look as the CLS, SL, CL or S-Class, then you'll know that you're living in the past when it comes to Mercedes. The new S and lastest SL have proven (so far with the S) be those very standards that Cadillac doesn't have a chance in hell of matching.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    If "Ya, I gotta have one of those!" is the standard, it most definately and truly is Cadillac in my opinion, or if I'm being more sensible - a Buick.

    Clearly a throwback remark. Very few non-GM lifers aspire to own a Cadilac outside of the Escalade and no one outside of GM pep rally aspires to own a Buick. A Buick is an utter and complete joke compared to a Mercedes, BMW and certain Lexi.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Therefore, it seems as if Cadillac is always playing catch up.

    Bingo, Cadillac gave up too much ground and this is what they're stuck doing all the time. The new CTS will prove whether or not they can truly answer the challenge presented by a trio of new cars, the G35, IS350 and 335i. No excuses this time this is the car that is supposed to be more than merely "competitive" with this class, it should have them beat in some areas and be fiercely competitive in others. You can't expect them to build a class leader coming from at best the middle of the class which is where the current CTS resides, well actually its towards the back of the class.

    For some reason, I don't think that Cadillac wants to compete with Lexus or BMW.

    I see what you're saying here, but I disagree. The V-Series models prove they want to been seen as the equal to Mercedes/BMW and the switch to RWD says that also.

    The DTS is an antique. Some GM fans will tell you that this car competes with the Lexus LS, Mercedes S and BMW 7-Series, but they live in a fantasy world. When a competitor has twice as many gears in their tranny its time to call it a day. The DTS is to Cadillac what the ES is to Lexus, a throwback, difference is the ES is more up to day technology wise.

    M
  • aldwaldw Posts: 82
    Caddy has the technology and the know-how to make worldbeaters, and the next few years will show this.

    As Yogi Berra once said, "It ain't over till its over", and in this case, Caddy has more lives than a cat. :)
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Caddy has the technology and the know-how to make worldbeaters, and the next few years will show this.

    Yeah we've heard this (excuse) for years now. It is always wait till next year. Competition moves the game onward and then it is yet again wait till next year.

    Seriously though I don't think GM has the funds to make anything special for Cadillac at this point.

    M
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    P.S. NV, you know you bought the Navigator, because of the power running boards.

    Not at all, I did just the opposite, I deleted the running boards. Don't care for them. Not functional. But, you're wrong about the Slade having more gagetry than the Navigator. All it has is the big grunt engine, and while we're on that, the 5.4L Triton engine is old and embarrasing? How long has that tired old Northstar been out there unimproved and unrefined? The 5.4L has been brought ont in 2,4 & 3V versions, each more efficient than the last. No, you're right about so much, but not about the Navigator. It's at least as good, in some different ways, albeit, as the Escatahoe. ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Agree 100%. "The Standard of the World" means to me is a collective group cars, trucks, suvs, under one brand that achieves the highest standards, but offers the consumer a great value. One car I will mention now that meets those standards is the Corvette. Simply the best sports-car money can buy. ;) Cadillac, has had individual cars in the past that have been "Standard of the World". One that comes to mind is the 1993' Northstar Cadillac Seville STS. The Northstar in the Seville STS and Eldorado ETC, raised the bar. I remember classmates saying the Cadillac Eldorado ETC was their dream car. Others said the same thing about the Seville STS. I guess we liked them so much because they were fast, had bose stereo systems with CD players, and were sporty lookin'. Now I'm willing to bet their are kids that want to own a Cadillac Escalade SUV and/or EXT. I'm sure their are still some that would like to own a STS, and CTS, not to mention the "V" models. I'm willing to bet the next CTS-V will be a object of desire for the youth. If the STS interior improves dramatically it also could have kids like myself, when I was young wanting a piece of Cadillac.

    So being "The Standard of the World" isn't about being the fastest, most expensive, etc, it boils down to more than that. I'm not saying Cadillac, is currently the
    "Standard of the World" now but I believe in Rick Wagoner, enough that he will have the Cadillac brand back at the top of the mountain once again within 3 year time frame. He will give me a great product that's great enough to at least confidently argue them as being
    "The Standard of the World" brand once again. ;)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    NV, whatever you and I agree often but on this subject we are miles apart. :P

    The Slade, as I proved has more "Gadgetology" then the ExpiGator. You can look away from the 800lb Gorilla but NV, he's still standing their right in front of you pal. :D

    Rocky

    P.S. The Northstar has had like 3-4 makeovers in its lifetime. The latest was adding VVT to it in 2005. I do agree GM, needs to add direct injection to it and/or make a brand new Northstar.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,071
    ...I'll have to wait for 2010 when Cadillac, (hopefully) puts the DTS on a RWD/AWD platform. Right now, I'm happy with my current Seville STS. I'm 41 and I like the current DTS' styling, but I'm waiting for an updated powertrain.

    As for 8 gears in the Lexus LS460? That alone would frighten me away from the car. It's a darn passenger car, not a semi tractor! If that transmission goes out of warranty, one better take out a second mortgage and repent their sins. Transmission specialists everywhere will be sending their kids to Ivy League schools.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,705
    > "GM pep rally, very few non-GM lifers, utterand complete joke"

    You sound like a GM hater. Do you have a study with data on this or are you living in the past after problems with vehicles in the 80s or 90s?

    This message has been approved.

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    LOL, I bet that 8-speeder is expensive to fix. ;)

    Rocky
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