General Questions about Leasing Vehicles

glevitt · April 2007

Of the three vehicles I've leased its never been a requirement. My last vehicle I originated the lease from a dealer in KS and I live in CO. Really, just like buying the car, your lease is between you and the finance company, the dealership gets their piece and is out of the picture (except for the maintenance hopefully).
You can take your car anywhere for service even grease monkey as long as you keep records showing you are meeting the minimum maintenance requirements. Now most people take their vehicle to the dealership because its under warranty and you always have little niggles and rattles and things that you want looked at, but in a lease, IMHO, you should only do the most basic maintenance required after all you are only renting the car.

er0si0n · May 2007

can anyone help me calculate lease pricing?

I have been quoted an MSRP of $25,200 for the Nitro SLT.

I want to put 0 down, and lease for 27 months. Can anyone give me an estimate of what I should have for my payments, and a little explanation to tell the dealer as to why i think that price is what i should get?

I'm new to this stuff, thanks.

tidester · May 2007

This should help: Calculate Your Own Lease Payment

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

rockfish1 · May 2007

Tidester, I looked at the Calculate your own lease Payment section on Edmunds as you indicated above. I did not understand the Money factor definition so I looked it up in Edmunds Leasing Glossary. It is
Money Factor: Also called a lease factor or even a lease fee, this is the interest rate you are being charged. It is expressed as a multiplier that can be used to calculate your monthly payments. For example, 7.2 percent interest, when expressed as a money factor, is .0033. To convert a money factor to an interest rate, multiply by 2,400. To convert an interest rate to a money factor, divide by 2,400. (Always use 2,400 regardless of the length of the loan.)

My question is:
Why is 2400 always used and when I multiply 7.2 percent by 2400 I come up with .0030 not .0033 as indicated in the Edmunds definition.

tidester · May 2007

That's a good question! The money factor is related to the "annual percentage rate." Given an annual percentage rate, the interest rate that you would pay for one month is one twelfth (1/12) of that.

Now, over the course of a loan (lease) the principal on which you are paying interest decreases so your monthly interest payment decreases. If you made a graph of the amount of interest you pay each month you would find that the graph is practically a straight line. This means that your average monthly interest payment is simply the average of your first and last monthly interest payments or one half of their sum!

Since the first payment is based on the full cap cost and the last payment is based on the residual, the average interest payment is monthly interest rate × (cap + residual) ÷ 2. In effect, your average interest rate is annual percentage rate ÷ 12 ÷ 2. That gives you the factor of 24 and an additional factor of 100 converts percentage rate to "percentage points" so you have a factor of 2400!

Finally, the Edmunds number you quoted should be 0.003. Thanks for pointing it out!

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

rockfish1 · May 2007

Thanks Tidester.

I knew a great and esteemed host like you would have the explanation. Just to understand the formula better I ran the calculations on the highest interest payment on cap cost and lowest interest payment on residual value adding them together and divided by 2 and came to the same results as your formula which is the same as using the moneyfactor calculation. As expected all agreed!

I would suggest you add your 2400 explanation to the Edmunds money factor definition in case any other inquisitive member is in need of further info.

I should have asked this question in the leasing forum so your explanation could help others that may have the same question.

tidester · May 2007

If you and the original poster don't mind, I could just move this thread over to General Questions about Leasing Vehicles.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

rockfish1 · May 2007

Ok by me.

grandtotal · May 2007

I'm interested in a single payment lease (not on an LR), but everyone I have talked to tells me that is a bad idea, but nobody can tell me why.

perna · May 2007

I'm interested in a single payment lease (not on an LR), but everyone I have talked to tells me that is a bad idea, but nobody can tell me why.

If the car is totalled, don't you just lose the amount you're upside down? That's probably why.

dino001 · May 2007

In case of a total early in a term, you will end up losing big. The payoff formulas are structured in a way to favor bank, not you so the prorated reimbursement will be a joke - a bad one I might say. Making up numbers, if your one-time 2-year lease payment was $20K and you total it in first month, you will likely get back less than $10K, or something like that.

Lease is about transfering ownership risk (depreciation) to somebody else (lessor) - for a fee of course. Large cap cost reduction/one time payments transfer that risk back to the lessee.

lrguy44 · May 2007

There are 3 cases where I have found they work. By doing a one pay, the money factor is less than a normal lease. The residual is the same. So if you where going to lease, but had the cash to do a one pay, it may be advantages. The other is for the cash buyer who trades every 2 or 3 years. A analysis may show that he can invest the difference between cash and one pay and make money. Also, he doesn't have to worry about depreciation, and pays less tax (at least here) than he would on a purchase. Finally, it is the easiest way for a credit challenged person to get a car. It is rare that the later category can afford a one pay lease. I don't know if it would be the same deal in Canada however.

user777 · May 2007

You meant by the third case, the easiest way for a credit challenged person to get a car they shouldn't be driving right? :shades:

dino001 · May 2007

So it works great if everything is fine. But from risk management point of view, it's terrible, as it combines disadvantages of ownership and leasing.

british_rover · May 2007

Well I have had a couple of customers who have large amounts of liquid cash but fair to poor credit because of unfavorable, and sometimes unforseeable, business outcomes in the past.

lilengineerboy · May 2007

In case of a total early in a term, you will end up losing big.

How would this be affected by the type of lease you have? Them car has a given value, the insurance company pays off the total, the lien holder first, and then whats leftover goes to the leasee. I don't understand how when you give the bank the money would make a difference. :confuse:

dino001 · May 2007

There is something called GAP. In month-to-month lease with all costs other than minimum rolled into payment, they take the car payoff, your insurance hands them the check and cover the rest with GAP. So you walk away not owing anything, and you did not invest anything, either. Your ongoing rate was higher, but it never accumulated to anything significant, as the contract was terminated.

Now, if you paid them $20K upfront, then there is insurance check for say $30K, the car was $34K, guess where the 4 grand comes from? It comes from that 20 grand you handed - GAP never kicks in. Factor in taxes, upfront fees, such as acquisition fee and others and your pro-rated reimbursement shrinks drastically. So if there is no total loss, you paid less with one-payment - perhaps significantly less. But if something bad happens, your bad luck just double dipped.

kyfdx · May 2007

One-pay leases work differently than making a large CAP cost reduction....

If the vehicle is stolen or totalled, the lease is pro-rated... and the difference is returned to the lessee..

Otherwise, the risk would be too great..

Also, you don't really need GAP on a one-pay lease, as the payoff is almost always less than the ACV.

regards,
kyfdx
Host-Prices Paid Forums

dino001 · May 2007

OK, good to know. Maybe the're not such a terrible idea as I thought.

Thanks. One question, though - does the payoff of a totalled on-time follow depreciation of the car, or is it pro-rated on "time-proportional" basis? Of course the latter would be much more advantageus, but I can't see banks "volunteering" that method.

kyfdx · May 2007

Most one-pay leases work this way..

They calculate it like a normal lease, only they'll drop the money factor.. say... from .0030 to .0022... Then, they add up the monthly payments and that is your one-pay (plus all the usual stuff... acq.fee, tax, etc.).

Then, if your lease is terminated for stolen/accident, they calculate the payoff, as though you were making those payments each month.. the same as if you traded in your car early, etc...

Early terminations aren't that big of a deal for the bank... Sure, they lose out on future interest payments, but they get their money back to loan out again.. At least this way, they don't have to worry about getting burned on the residual value.

What banks really don't want? They don't want you to turn your car in at the end of the lease.

regards,
kyfdx

mudfud · May 2007

"If the vehicle is stolen or totalled, the lease is pro-rated... and the difference is returned to the lessee.."

So if I've understood this correctly, most of the pre-paid lease amount would be returned if the car is totalled early.

"Also, you don't really need GAP on a one-pay lease, as the payoff is almost always less than the ACV."

Hmm..So why is the payoff amount less for a single pay lease?
Thanks.

joel0622 · May 2007

So if I've understood this correctly, most of the pre-paid lease amount would be returned if the car is totalled early.

If your payment is $300 a month and you total the car with 6 months left you get back $1800. The only thing I don't know about for sure is the taxes. You may not get those back

"Also, you don't really need GAP on a one-pay lease, as the payoff is almost always less than the ACV

Most leases include gap so you have it any how

cantheydothat · June 2007

I leased a Hyundai Sonata for 30 month/299 (no down, DMV fees rolled in).

4 days later the dealer is calling me telling me that they made a mistake, and that the program they offered me is not still available. They want me to come in and re-do the lease, and pay more.

They're offering 24 months at 357, or 36 at 327.

I can't see why they should be able to even suggest this - can anyone here shed some light for me?

Thanks!

carnaught · June 2007

4 days later the dealer is calling me telling me that they made a mistake, and that the program they offered me is not still available. They want me to come in and re-do the lease, and pay more.

I'd have them honor the lease as is or cancel it. It was their mistake.

joel0622 · June 2007

Call back and say, I am sorry the program changed, I really like this car. Oh well I will return it to you at 3:00 pm today

louiseb · June 2007

Now that I know what residual value and money factor means, who determines this? Is it up to the dealer?? Does it change daily? Where do I find out what the car company is offering(if they are the ones who set these numbers) before I go to the dealer?
TIA,
Louise

joel0622 · June 2007

Louise, the Residuals and Money Factors are determined by the leasing company, be it the manufacture or a bank. Normally they change quarterly with the residuals being the highest at the beggining of the year and going down each quarter.

This is a rule of thumb not set in stone.

kyfdx · June 2007

Where do I find out what the car company is offering(if they are the ones who set these numbers) before I go to the dealer?

Right here, of course... Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences

There is a Lease Questions discussion for every make and model.

regards,
kyfdx

louiseb · June 2007

If the dealer was offering 2.9% interest(or what ever promo interest rate) then why would they not offer the same for a lease?

joel0622 · June 2007

If the dealer was offering 2.9% interest(or what ever promo interest rate) then why would they not offer the same for a lease?

Because an interest rate and a lease factor ar two totaly different things.

monkeybaronjr · June 2007

Hey all,

I have a simple question regarding the logistics of a lease. I currently live in Philadelphia and will be graduating from medical school come May of 2008. I am 100% sure that I will not be in Pennsylvania and will most likely be in Texas or Washington state for the next 5-6 years at least starting that June. I will be in the market for a new car around January of 2008. While I'm still determining whether it will be in my best interst to buy or lease, my question is will it be a problem leasing/buying a car here in Philly knowing I will be moving 6 months or should I just tough it out until the big move and just buy/lease once I get settled there??

I know that some dealerships have deals with free oil changes, maintenance, etc. Are these deals with that car only good at that specific dealership or will I be able to take it to any Acura (for example) dealership?

I also know that if I do not intend to buy out the lease at the end of the deal that the vehicle must be returned to the dealer. Is this implying the vehicle must be returned to that specific dealership that I purchased it from or just any "Acura" dealer?

Thanks in advance for any advice!!

tidester · June 2007

Personally, I would wait until I made the move before committing to a lease. Also, if you're driving the leased vehicle to Texas or Washington, that will contribute significantly to your mileage limits.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

carnaught · June 2007

Personally, I would wait until I made the move before committing to a lease. Also, if you're driving the leased vehicle to Texas or Washington, that will contribute significantly to your mileage limits.

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

Good advice!

To my knowledge, only BMW has a maintenance program included with the car (Audi does for the first service). Some brands have a service policy that you buy extra which is more dealer specific, while still others are brand specific. Bottom line, consider following Tidester's advice.

Good luck in Med School.

monkeybaronjr · June 2007

Ok, that makes sense. Any other thoughts?

I know this is a leasing thread, but what if I planned on purchasing the vehicle rather than leasing it? Should that change my approach or would it still be advantageous to wait until I moved, if possible??

Thanks again for everyone's help!

Kirstie_H · June 2007

Ah, in that case, you'll want to check the vehicle sales tax rate of your current place of residence, then compare to your proposed places of residence in a year. If there's a big difference, your decision could save/cost a lot of money.

mcpheect5 · June 2007

I have a 2005 Town and Country with 18 months left on the lease. I need to get out of this lease ASAP due to life changes. Needing a cheaper payment. Any suggestions or ideas. Can anyone help?

scottinky · June 2007

2007 Passat Wagon 2.0t with Package 1
MSRP is 29,439
selling price is 27, 613
36 months, $2250 down, payment of $409.
residual is 49%, money factor .00106

Would be trading Pathfinder I owe 11.5k on, paid off in 18mos.

Kirstie_H · June 2007

You might Google lease swapping - that's probably your best bet. To get out of the lease, you would have to pay all of the remaining payments at the least.

Kirstie_H · June 2007

Hi Scott,
Since this is a general discussion about how leases work, you're better off looking for a response in the Passat Lease Questions discussion where you posted earlier.

avljmax · June 2007

I'm confused about a prior post... one of the hosts said that you can't trade in a leased car, except that every dealership I've spoken with seems happy to have me trade in my leased 2004 Honda Civic. Am I being misled? Thanks for your insights.

kyfdx · June 2007

A lot of it depends on the leasing company (or bank) that owns the car.

But, just about every bank will allow the car to be traded-in to a licensed dealer. Your leased car has a payoff amount, just like any financed vehicle.

Some leasing companies have different payoffs, depending on who is buying the car. This seems unfair, but when you sell the car before the contract is up, they do have the power to call the shots (according to the contract).

Many leasing institutions will not allow you to sell your leased car to another individual, without purchasing it yourself.

I've traded in two Hondas and an Acura before the lease was up. All leased through Honda Finance. They are pretty straightforward.

regards,
kyfdx
visiting host

avljmax · June 2007

Thank you for your response, kyfdx! That makes sense. I think I'll call American Honda Finance Corp tomorrow just to make sure that it's legit for me to trade in to a dealership other than Honda. I really want to try to get the equity out of it, rather than just giving it back to AHFC.

Did you trade in your Hondas and Acura for another Honda/Acura? Or did you trade them into a different car company?

m6_2005 · June 2007

Hi -

I am trying to lease a demo vehicle--a 2007 Nissan Maxima SL. The odometer reads 5008 miles.

My question is: How is the residual values for demo cars determined for various lease terms? How would I determine the depreciated portion of this vehicle?

How exactly is this applied to the lease calculation?

Also, in leasing, what are some important factors in leasing a demo car vs. a new car to keep in mind?

THANK YOU in advance.

kyfdx · June 2007

All three were traded in on new Honda Accord leases. The Acura was over-mileage, and being my first lease, I was worried about end-of-lease charges. I traded it for the payoff value.

Lease #2 was traded in after 24 months of a 30 month lease. I was already 9K miles over my total allowance with 6 months to go. I took a hit, but less than I would have if I had kept it, and moved into a lease with a much higher mileage allowance. I estimated about a $900 savings over taking the lease to term.

Lease #3 was traded in afer 24 months of a 36 month lease. It cost $250 to payoff the negative equity of the old lease, but the current lease deals were better, so I dropped my payment by $10/mo, even after rolling in the negative equity, and moved into a new 36 month lease on a new Accord. Plus, I was on a 3yr/54K lease, so my warrranty was up.

I've never been able to trade a lease in and generate positive equity. Usually, if you can do that, then you've paid for more mileage than you needed. Most really good lease deals will have you in a negative equity position all the way through. That means you won!!

Good luck,
kyfdx

kyfdx · June 2007

I doubt every finance company figures a demo lease the same way. But, in my experience, the residual is reduced by a set amount per mileage. Something like $0.10 per mile would be typical.

However, the bank may have a special money factor or residual for demo vehicles. If not, you should certainly be able to negotiate a reduction in selling price, equivalent to the reduction in residual, at the very least.

Also, be aware that a typical lease may put you out of the warranty period on a demo, where it may not on a new vehicle.

Some demos just don't lease very well. Be sure to compare the price to leasing the same car, brand-new.

regards,
kyfdx

m6_2005 · June 2007

I really, really appreciate your quick and great response.

Thanks for the tip on the warranty!!

Thanks for the help!

rudi2 · July 2007

I have two more months to go on my acura lease and I am already over my mileage allowance by 12,000 miles.Can I get out of the lease now?If so, what will I owe?is it possible for me to have any positive equity in the lease?If so, how would I know?Should I try to roll any end of lease charges for excess mileage into another lease?Please help!

cccompson · July 2007

What's your per mile overage charge?

What's the buyout?

What's the vehicle worth?

minivancrazy · August 2007

Reply
Has anyone ever traded a lease? There are several web sites that will help you take over someones lease prior lease end (Swapalease, leasetrader).

For example, Joe has a 07 car with a lease payment of $350/m with only 6K miles. So I would take over his lease payment and have 30K miles left to use over the next 26 months. At the end of the 26 months I turn it in. In some cases the current leasor will give a cash incentive to take over the lease. If you look hard enough you can find people who put money down for lower lease payment, OR if they got in on a manufacture incentive deal. So in some cases you can get a very good lease payment. In other cases people got ripped off and are paying more for a lease then they should or the lease is already out of miles. It sounds like a way to save money, it your carefull. But I am concerned that it may be too good to be true.

HELP!

jisrael · August 2007

Background: We leased, and paid 100% of the lease up front, on a 2006 Trailblazer in fall of 2005. It turned out to be a lemon and after fighting GM they replaced it in Jan 2006 with another 2006 Trailblazer. A few months ago we moved to another state and are getting ready to turn in the Trailblazer this fall.

Today when my wife goes to get her new plates on the Trailblazer we find out that the Chevy dealer made a mistake and put the title of the replacement Trailblazer in our name, not GMAC, and has was marked as a purchase not lease. We have the title in our name and in our possession that should have gone to GMAC. GMAC has the Trailblazer listed as leased but they do not have any copies of the title. My wife called the dealer and the lady from the title dept told her that the replaced Trailblazer is listed as a purchase not a lease. The dealership asked my wife to mail the title to them they would fix it and get the new title to GMAC.

After everything we went through with this dealer and the lemon I do not trust anyone that works at that place. I am not going to send it in yet. I am thinking about holding out to see what they do... after all I do have the title in my possession and in my name. Thoughts?

Thanks

General Questions about Leasing Vehicles

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