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Full-size pickup sales - F-150 best selling truck, but for how much longer?

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  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    1. Silverado and Sierra are not divisions of General Motors, they are the names of two different models of truck made by two different divisions of General Motors, Chevrolet and GMC.

    2. In 2006, Chevy sold 705,980 Silverados and GMC sold 210,736 Sierras for a total of 979,902.

    3. In 2006, Ford sold 796,039 F-Series trucks.

    4. Ford claims that F-Series is the best selling truck name plate. Since 796,039 is higher than either 705,980 or 210,736, this statement is true.

    5. the New redesigned Silverado/Sierra is still not as good a truck as the 2004 F-150.
    a. F-150 reg cab has best in class payload at 3050 lbs. vs. 1952 for Silverado.
    b. F-150 can tow 2,300 more lbs than Silverado.
    c. F-150 has four whee vented disc brakes. Standard on Silverado are rear drums.
    d. F-150 uses a fully box frame with hydro formed front frame rails and through welded cross members. Silverado does not use hydro forming and does not use through welded cross members.
    e. F-150 has outboard mounted shocks which provide greater stability than the splayed shocks on Silverado.
    f. F-150's 5.4L engine has more torque than Silverado's 5.3L and only 10 lbft less than Silverado's heavy, expensive, gas guzzlin' 6.0L
    g. Ford also offers a regular cab with 4 door access and behind the seat storage. Silverado does not.

    I could go on and on but the point is that GMs "new" truck is only about as good as a 2003 F-150.

    Mark
  • fordchrisfordchris Posts: 10
    and the f-150 sold 700,000 with just one nameplate no gmc + chevy crap gmc and chevy are 2 different names thus means that ford outsold them per company :P
  • Yea' whatever there both pretty much the same truck from the same Company. When talking about the best selling full size truck, General Motor's full size truck's out sell Ford year after year< fact! Also about GM's new truck, You talking about the one thats "Motor Trend 2007 Truck of the year"? The one that's class leading 367hp, the one that will tow 10,500lbs. And when you talk about expensive, Ford parts have always been just about double the cost of GM and not to mention the Ford's require more shop time to fix the same problem compared to GM. And last but not least ford truck's have always been just butt A$$ ugly! O' yea and ride quality that Ford is just slightly better then a Dodge!
    By the way how is Ford doing these day's? How's that Ranger selling? They even closed the plant in St. Paul that had a hydro-Gen and produced it's own power! All because they cant give those junk Rangers away! I could go on and on but i think i've made my point, Haven't and Will Not out sell General Motor's full size truck's, So Get over it!!

    Jay...
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    In order to qualify for this award, a car or truck has to be new or redesigned. The F-150 would not have qualifed as it was a carry over from 2004.
  • Yea and what does that say about Ford truck's and Ford as a Company? Going down hill and fast! :sick:
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    That post was very funny. Explain to me how the Chevy/GMC light duty pick ups outsell the F-series?

    In terms of reliability the F-series was the best of the LD pickups until they released the latest version. While the Ranger is an old design it remains a solid vehicle. I'd rather take an enema than own or drive the absolute worst small pickup ever built, the S-10. And the new Canyon/Colorado seems to be following in that fine tradition. They're horrible.

    And, just how well is GM doing nowadays? How many billions have they lost in the last two years?

    Dusty
  • Look it up! GM's silverado and Sierra together have consistantly out sold the F-150 I was told GM wouldn't have ever even built the s-10 but had to keep Ford honest. And you said it your self
    F-series "WAS" the best of the light duty pickup's! My 93' Sierra sle z-71 is by far better then any 93'F-150 in ride,look's for sure,easyer to work on and parts are alot cheaper! Lastly GM is doing alot better then Ford! get over it!
    Like A Rock Baby.........Whew!!!!!! :shades:
  • Yep' and you could put 3050 lbs in a Silverado and get it to squat like a Beeooch too! Big Deal! How's the drivability on any 1/2 ton with that kind of weight? Not good i don't care what brand it is. The GM'S are still better looking by far, better riding, easyer to work on and parts as always are cheaper then Ford. O'yea did i mention The 2007 Motor Trend Truck of the year ;)
    I need say no more! :shades:
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    Anyone remember the "Like a Rock" magazine ad that showed the truck standing in for a life boat on a ship?

    What was that suppose to mean? That you would sink like a rock?

    BTW. S-10 Blazer has the highest fatality number for miles driven of any other vehicle on the road today.

    Mark.
  • Yea' I don't believe they make a s-10 blazer anymore and your point is? Anyway i seem to remember a car back in the 70's that would burst into flames with a rear impact that
    B-B-Q'd quiet a few people! Does that ring any bells? I'll give you a hint smart guy > F_RD P_NT_!

    If you guessed: FORD PINTO? Well hey everyone we have a WINNER HERE!!!!!!! The Covetted "MORON OF THE DAY AWARD"!!!!
    TROPHY'S IN THE MAIL! :P LOL.........!

    Ask for it what you require of me and you will get it smart guy! Howl! Howl! HeHeHe lol............ LIKE A ROCK.........
    ROCK ON!>1/28TH "BLACK LIONS" Camp Falcon>Ramandi, Iraq. ;)
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    Yes...and the Citation and clones with the most recalls on any single model (18) ever, and that shinning example of Chevrolet engineering, the Vega with the self destructive engine and body. And then there was the THM200 transmission, designed for a Vega, used in an Chevelle and Impala.

    Even if Ford parts were more expensive, which there is no submitted evidence to support, they are most definitely used less often!
  • Hey i had a orange 1975 vega, that car was great! Bought it for $90.00 from a buddy that was going in the service when we were 18 years old. Always started no matter how cold, once a week you had to take the back plug out and run sandpaper through it and gap due to oil fouling. Drove it for a year untell some A-hole desided to pull out in front of me with a Dodge ramcharger just after a 3 inch snowfall. Pulled the Radiator out of the fan blades and limped it home. Used a Radiator out of a 77' Datsun B-210 a coffee can for a vaccum can, plugs and wires. Ran like a champ for 5 more months tell we desided all juiced one night were going over to the construction site and start driving it off 15 ft high burms repeatedly, got it stuck and left it! Never did kill it though! Back then you drop a 350 4barrel in a vega and there wasn't much on the road that would touch it! Vega's and Citations unlike the Pinto never had a burst into flames problem! Also i have a friend that ownes his own shop and i do motorwork for him from time to time when needed. He says Ford's are junk! His famous saying is Ford is his job security because 3/4 of the cars&Trucks he gets are ford! And yes he's ASE certified, been in the business for 16years. So he knows the problems with Ford and so do I but hey to each his own! I've worked on Ford's and i think they suck compared to working on GM and like i said parts are too expensive! Back in the old days 20, 30 years ago the front ends on ford would last about half as long as GM! and fry tires on the edges! It's all well known!
  • The THM200 TRANS was used in the 6 cyl chevelles and impalas! There were not many around i seen! Most people bought the turbo 350 & 400 that was bullet proof! So was the 350,396,sb400,402, all bullet proof! :P
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    I'm going to END this discussion about how much better Ford trucks are than GM in terms of capability with just four words, or 3 words and one number.

    2008 F-450 Pickup!

    image

    Payload: over 6,000 pounds.
    Conventional Towing: 16,000 pounds
    5th wheel towing: 24,500 pounds

    6.4L Diesel
    350 hp, 650 lb-ft.

    Mark.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,694
    Yeah, that makes a lot of sense in a F-150 discussion.

    Bob
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    The THM200 automatic was used behind the 305 V-8 in full size Chevrolets and other full-size GM cars with the base V-8. They were the most unreliable automatic ever produced. The TurboGlide 350 and 400s were not bullet proof. In fact, for racing applications I ran what was a typical setup years ago from B&M with a Chrysler A-727 behind a 327 ('62 Biscayne body). The 350s could not handle the torque weekend after weekend. The 400s were a fine transmission for big block motors, but just like anything from Hydramatic they were trouble prone at higher mileage.

    The 327 was the last decent Chevrolet small block. The 350, like its predecessors were terrible on the top end. Valve guides were soft and even softer when Chevrolet stopped using SAE 550 cast heads. Bent push rods were always a problem when a Chevy small block saw a lot of high RPM work. Rocker arms would develop excessive peening at both actuating ends, and if you pulled really high RPM too often the rocker arm studs would work themselves right out of the head. Factory camshafts were just plain junk, usually spinning a lobe by the time they reached 50K. Timing chains and gears would crumble quite consistently, and the Chevy oil pump was marginal under civilian use. After the 327 Chevy small blocks got a well deserved reputation for excessive oil consumption.

    The 396 was an anchor. I noticed you didn't mention the 348. Probably wise. Blue Streak sixes liked to develop a hole in number one piston and they always suffered from poor oiling in the valve train unless you ground the side of one head bolt down. The 400 small block performed well, but suffered from poor blood lines. As with the 350, the 400 had a high incidence of galling number 1 main bearing.

    When you're in love with Chevrolet I guess one tends to forget the negatives.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    We have plenty of discussions here about manufacturer vs manufacturer. Thie topic here is about whether or not Ford will keep its full-size truck sales lead, not about engines and transmissions from the past that rarely if ever saw truck duty.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Well, I think that the F150 will keep the lead for a while those this year looks to be a struggle with the Silverado. Even if the Silverado wins out this year, it will be short lived because the new F150 will appear in 08 as a 09 model.
    The real problem is if Ford will be around by then. Right now, it looks like Ford has about 16 months to make a significant improvement or else it will get sold to another company. Realistically, next year is probably the last year Ford has to maintain its leadership with the F150, but not because the truck won't be popular, but because the company itself may be sold off by then...
  • "Ford" keep it's lead? You guy's can word it however you like. The fact still remains General Motors 1500 series Trucks continue to out sell the Ford, F-150 year after year!
    Don't get me wrong the Ford F-150 is a popular truck i give it that! But it does not out sell General Motor's in total truck sales in the full size>1500 class< period! "Sorry" Silverado/Sierra? same truck! Diff grill assembly and badges,Interior, rim's also! But i can still take any part off a silverado and bolt it up to my Sierra! "Same Company" and just about same truck! Just cause you word something for effect, does not make it fact in the final year end count of total fullsize 1/2 ton truck sales by both Company's! Winner (GM)
  • Yeah' well they were still sold and count in that years talley. and i remind you Ford does not have the 1/2 ton full size truck lead! Thats been (GM) FOR MANY YEARS! Word it how you like! The bottom line is cold hard numbers! And Ford don't have them! Silverado/Sierra >(GM)< Has,Does and will! ;)
  • cptchetcocptchetco Posts: 32
    The Detroit News has an assembly of other newspaper reviews. I just read the ones on the Toyota Tundra, the Chev Silverado and Ford F250. (Yeah I know the 250 is a heavier duty truck than the other two, but it doesn't matter in this note). The Ford has a higher load rating, a much greater towing capacity, and The best fuel economy and lowest price for comparably equipped. No wonder Toyota only hit 2/3 of its projected sales this year.
  • cptchetcocptchetco Posts: 32
    Look at the sales facts from any unbiased source. Ford continues to be the biggest seller, and this is a year when Chev has a major redesigned model, and Ford does not; their redesign comes out in 2008.
  • To:cptchetco
    "You are a funny guy" How does it not matter when your comparing a F-250's Load rating,Tow capacity, to a 1/2 ton Tundra and Silverado/Sierra? I'm still laughing! Can i use the GMC-TOPKICK for the comparison then? lol..........
    Also the 2007 Motor Trend Truck of the year> Silverado (1/2)Ton gets better milage with a class leading 367-HP engine then a "COMPARABLY EQUIPPED" 2007 Ford F-150! And ride quality the Silverado/Sierra is second to none!
    Go check out my home page,i have a Indigo Blue 93'Sierra(SLE)Z-71 Reg Cab,Short Box I've been restoring for the past 2-1/2 years in my spare time. I wouldn't trade that Truck "straight up" for a 2007 F-150 ;) (I'm Adding Pictures All The Time)Have a great day!
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Take a deep breath and count to ten and relax... you've made your point. The combination of the Silverado/Sierra does out-sell Ford, but Ford is #1 in sales on this technicality, that's all.
    And besides, neither company is the "winner" on this. Until Ford or GM posts some kind of sustainable profit (i.e. lets just start by getting 3 or 4 quarters of profit), neither are winners. They could sell millions of trucks every year, but it they're bleeding money from all ends, it doesn't matter. What matters is if they can stay in business to do so. In that respect, GM is in a much better position than Ford, but that is merely saying that GM won't drown before Ford... point is that neither of them should be in deep water in the first place.
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    You can't compare 3/4 ton trucks to 1/2 ton trucks any more than I can compare Formula 1 to Nascar. There is a big difference and it isn't even worth mentioning here, but they are distinctly orange to apples.
    As for Toyota's sales numbers, I don't know where you're getting that, but so far it is the only company that has higher 1/2 ton truck sales as of April. All others have sold less vehicles when compared to the same month last year. The truck market in general is getting hit hard because of gas prices. Not that Toyota is a threat to GM or Ford in this regard, but they are not as dependent on truck sales for revenue that the GM and Ford are.
    However, this hit in sales may affect Ford the most since GM has new models this year. Truck buyers are pretty loyal to their brand, but there are always a few that will try something new!
  • Your the first person I've got to admit that Ford does not out sell Silverado/Sierra! They all use Silverado only in there comparison and technically Ford's claim is misleading the public! A public that unfortunately believes everything they see in the media as gospel! If Ford had two full size trucks you can bet they would use both in making there claim! Ford needs to get off it" they have not out sold >GM< in years! Ford has made some real ugly Cars and Trucks over the years to say the least. And has always been behind the other two Companies in that aspect. I believe once the Companies restructure and put there resourses into a few good cars and trucks instead of fifty! They will gain the edge again and be a force in the Automotive industry! Myself i will still buy nothing but American made! All these people buying Tundras and anything else out of our scapmetal are just killing these Companies and our Country! ;)
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Well, I, like you see no reason why the GMC/Chevy nameplate shouldn't be combined when comparing sales, but again, it is being done on a technicality -- something that is exploited a great deal in the media and by marketing in general. However, even without combining the two, it looks like this year the Silverado on its own will outsell Ford. Sales numbers already show that this is the case, though anything can happen with 7.5 months to go.
    As for buying American, suffice it to say that arguments have been made back and forth on what constitutes "American" any more. All companies have changed and I don't believe that competition has been detrimental to the Detroit3 in any way. I think the biggest drain on those companies has been the UAW. But, that's my personal opinion, not everyone will agree with me on this. There are obviously other reasons as well, but that stands out as the single largest drain on those companies.
    People can buy what they want with their own money and find ways to justify it as they like. I do agree that actual Ford vs GM sales for trucks has favored GM for years and will continue to be that way for a long time. Ford is in severe financial trouble and will likely try to out-wait Chrysler in the battle of who folds first. Either way, there is probably less than 2 years left for either Ford or Chrysler before one goes under or is bought out by someone else. The landscape in this industry is going to change as a result.
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    OK so as of the End of April, Ford F-Series racked up 228,343 sales and Silverado racked up 202,151.

    Please explain how you can conclude that Silverado will outsell F-Series for 2007 based on those numbers? Or do you have a crystal ball you are looking into?

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/05/02/046375.html
  • beliasbelias Posts: 316
    Current sales to date for 2007 vary depending on what you use as your source, but the source you chose (assuming it is correct) doesn't account for when each manufacturer has their better sales month(s), so depending on when it is taken, one company can seem farther ahead than another. Still, even if the F-Series does out-sell the Silverado when the year is done, it will be by only a fairly slim margin since even their projections are essentially the same as Chevy's for sales this year.
    Ford is in the unenviable position to not offer the same kind of incentives that competitors can. That is just one of a few reasons why their sales drop is more significant than anybody else's and why GM's sales drop is far less over the same period. Even if this were to continue (i.e. a level sales drop for the period) for the rest of the year for both Ford and Chevy, Chevy would come ahead because their sales drop is not even 5% of what Ford's is.
    Add in GMC numbers and you can go back a few years before Ford ever eclipsed the two together. The Ford F-Series sales record is based on that technicality. In reality, Ford lost this battle going back well into the 90s.
    In any case, the point is moot. Ford doesn't have much for options if it doesn't start showing a profit by the end of next year. They shouldn't be concerned with selling the most trucks -- they should be concerned with being able to sell them at a profit.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Sales reported from the manufacturers themselves:

    Apr 07 Apr 06 +/- CY 2007 CY 2006 +/-
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    F-Series...56,692/ 64,749/ -12.4/ 228,343/ 264,550/ -13.7
    Silverado..49,436/ 57,709/ -14.3/ 202,151/ 203,062/ -0.4
    Ram........31,503/ 30,814/ +2.0/ 122,816/ 121,200/ +1.0
    Sierra.....16,849/ 17,179/ -2.0/ 64,639/ 63,201/ +2.3
    Tundra.....14,200/ 8,837/ +60.7/ 43,386/ 40,662/ +6.7
    Titan.......4,922/ 6,425/ -17.0/ 23,769/ 27,702/ -14.2

    Chevy had a down month, but is still close to breaking even on the year. Ford is consistently down, month and year.

    kcram - Pickups Host
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