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Comments
Were you aware of these defects and still purchased a Tundra?
If so I truely wish you luck on your new truck!!!! :sick:
The Tacomas had the same weak tailgates as the Tundra, and it took them three years to fix it:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t191098.html
Now their new big, badass Tundra truck has weak tailgates and weak sheetmetal in the beds. It may even be worse than the Tacoma. Toyota didn't learn anything - talk about dense. This gives "moving forward" a whole new meaning. Why did they put the same weak tailgate on their new badass truck that's "changing it all"? Toyota's response has apparently been to tell customers the tailgate was not designed to support weight. In other words, these trucks aren't intended to be anything but suburban grocery getters, despite the marketing to the contrary.
I predict Tundra sales are going to decline into the crapper like the Nissan Titan did. The people these trucks appeal to are watching their house prices implode and gas prices go up. They can't justify to their wives spending money on a grocery getting gas hog that doubles as a desk job commuter.
Seems ta me these Texas Tayota fellers ud know better.
That said, this new Toyota Tundra is very dissapointing to say the least considering all the hype. Nobody in my family will even come close to buying this new truck. It's not the same old Toyota. This is an very new American made truck from top to bottom. Toyota wanted to capture the American big $$ truck market but they should've built the truck in Japan first and give it a thorough run before bringing it here to the U.S. This is an absolute flop. Toyota is relying on their badge but this will only hurt them in the long run. I do applaud Toyota for admitting the flaws and fixing the problems as they surfaces. But they really rushed this whole thing. This Tundra is not your standard Toyota quality product. Toyota loyalist will defend this truck but solely based on their brainwashed trust on Toyota. Can you blame them? Heck, I'd like to be considered smart too by buying a trusted reliable brand. This is not the case with the new Tundra however in my opinion. This is way too new of a truck, made from a country with a manufacturing system/culture that leads to mediocre product at times. But this is another topic.
Now, to say that the Tundra will be worse than the Titan is still up in the air. Only time will tell. Nissan has been horrible in fixing the Titan. There has been complaints galore with Nissan dealers accross the country in addressing break issues and rear diff problems. Maybe it's the individual dealers and not Nissan per se but still it's still Nissan dealers. The new 08 Titan does appears to be promising as the front rotors has been enlarged. It's about time. It only took what, 4 years to hopefully get it right. That's very disappointing. For now, if I were to buy a truck, I'd have to go with either a Chevy or GMC. I'm going to wait til the end of the summer next year to make my final decision. Any of the Big 3 doesn't exactly have an excellent resume with Consumer Reports in terms of reliability.
It's really good to see an American car/truck maker bettering the Japanese. But, is it really that an American manufacturer better or only appears to be so because the Japanese has gotten drastically bad? Toyota Tundra, bigger the hype, the bigger the flop.
BTW, ever seen the movie Gung Ho?
Gung Ho
I post a lot on the Sierra/Silverado boards as my experience with my '00 Silverado left me pretty much an expert as to what could go wrong. My service folder at the dealership was over 2" thick and I had qualified for buy back. Unfortunate for me I had over $10K in mods in the truck which I had no intention of removing so settled for the 5 year/100K no deductible Major Guard extended warranty which GM provided free of charge.
That being said I also own much to my demise a '03 Ranger which IMO is an underpowered POS. I have no brand loyalty. I don't bash any make. I also don't believe that Toyotas that are manufactured in the USA are as reliable as their counterparts manufactured previously in Japan where Toyota pretty much oversees their suppliers as well as the assembly of their product. Here is seems that their suppliers are dropping the ball and their quality is suffering because of it. They are also at a lost as to what to do with their suppliers as Dr. W. Edward Deming never had a plan to deal with subpar suppliers. (Toyota's quest for quality was modeled after Dr. Deming and the Deming award but that's another story).
The first generation Tundra manufactured in '99 and sold as a '00 model had no where near the problems of the current '07 Tundra. You could blame first year problems but still they exceed the '00. I won't speculate as to why. Bottom line, any Toyota loyalist who based his experience with a previous "quality" Toyota truck, in my opinion, will be in for a rude awakening.
http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=7513296
I do stand to be corrected for the sales stats. By the end of this month Toyota could possibly see 200 thousand trucks sold in the year of 2007 All other pick up sales were down Tundra had an increase When comparing current Tundra sales against its former, smaller self, only the first two months of 2007 were lower than their comparable periods in 2006. Then, starting in March, Tundra sales exploded, and were up over 120% (i.e., more than double) in May, June, and July compared to the same period in 2006. In fact, if Toyota sells just 18,518 Tundras in August 2008 (it sold 23,150 in July), it will have already matched its total sales for 2006. Through the first seven months of 2007, Toyota has sold an average of 15,141 Tundras per month; extrapolating that through December 31, and Toyota is on pace to sell 181,692 trucks, which is almost 46% more than it did in 2006 (but short of its sales goal of 200,000 trucks in its first year). However, if Toyota can sell July's total of 23,150 trucks per month for the rest of 2007, it will have sold 221,740, and blown away its goal. I don't see any signs of the juggernaut slowing down; sales have increased in each month the truck has been on sale, so meeting their goals - which seemed laughable in the truck's first few months - seems almost inevitable now.
Against its competition, the Tundra's sales are even more impressive. The full size pickup segment is down 4.7% so far in 2007, and every competitor is showing negative sales year to date but Toyota, which is up 56.5%. It's a tough market in which to sell a full size V8 powered pickup with the housing market slowing down and high gas prices, which makes this feat even more impressive. So, whose lunch is the Tundra eating, if its sales are way up in a falling segment.
B2900
I would never need a magazine to tell me something so obvious. I guess these anti Toyota people need more proof about who builds the best truck. The Canadians also named the Tundra best truck as well.
you are correct, anyone with only half a brain probly would think the tundra is best by far
Motor Trend picked the Silverado for 2007. The 2008 Silverado is essentially the same as the 2008 Tundra, except we now know how meaningless the Truck of the Year award is. They should have jumped on the Tundra tailgate and watched it crack, or taken into account the 2007 Tundra recalls. Oh well, Motor Trend never picks the same truck twice.
However, if Toyota can sell July's total of 23,150 trucks per month for the rest of 2007, it will have sold 221,740, and blown away its goal.
They need to sell something like 23,150 in December just to reach the 200K goal. That could be difficult, because they only sold 14,988 last month.
I don't see any signs of the juggernaut slowing down; sales have increased in each month the truck has been on sale, so meeting their goals - which seemed laughable in the truck's first few months - seems almost inevitable now.
The 200K goal is not inevitable. It's reachable if they up the already large incentives on the Tundra, but who knows if they're doing that?
Against its competition, the Tundra's sales are even more impressive. The full size pickup segment is down 4.7% so far in 2007, and every competitor is showing negative sales year to date but Toyota, which is up 56.5%.
Well, let's see. Up 56.5% for Toyota means they sell about, what, 5,000 extra Tundras a month? That's what Ford/GM sell in a day or two. It's not hard to grow sales like that when you develop a new model and have a huge marketing campaign. They spent $100 million to sell 60K more trucks this year. That works out to $1,600 per truck. Considering the incentives of up to $4600 they have offered to move these things all year, they are spending even more, not to mention that shiny new Texas factory they are officially ashamed of.
So, whose lunch is the Tundra eating, if its sales are way up in a falling segment.
Their own previous Tundra owners, mainly:
http://www.autoobserver.com/2007/03/toyota_tundra_m.html
http://www.autoobserver.com/2007/04/pickup_truck_in.html
This article states 10% conquest rate on trade-ins from the Big 3:
http://www.autoobserver.com/2007/09/toyota-tundra-f.html
I think they blew their own math, and it's actually about 20%. Any way you slice it, the Tundra conquest sales appear pretty insignificant.
To make the award even more absurd this year, they compare the Tundra to the only real new trucks this year, a few heavy duty 2500s and 3500s, and F450s if you can believe that. It's apples and oranges. Then they slam the big Chevy for it's fuel economy, and the F-450 for feeling "enormous and ponderous"? Of course it is compared to the Toyota, you morons, it's a totally different class of vehicle!
No buyer in their right mind would ever be comparing the Toyota to these trucks.
You've got to be kidding right?
"ALL Toyota has to do now is RAISE their cash incentives and they'll blow GM right out of the water."
What?? $6K isn't enough? Now I understand where the Kool-Aid comments come from... :shades:
I'm guessing Toyota won't come out with a bed with enough sheet metal and a truck frame up to the task of actually being used coupled with a totally debugged truck until 2010/2011. If they can deal with the coming sales decline in 2008/2009 without giving up on their quest, they'll need until 2016 at least to live down the bad reputation the current trucks are building up and lots of bucks for marketing. With very high loyalty rates for the Big 3, especially Chevy, it will take some suicidal moves or lack of competition by them, or a long, slow grind by Toyota to ever get close to becoming #1. They'll have to be consistently better, but they haven't displayed that they are up for it in the full-sized truck segment for the past 16 years.
Second you state that the Toyota pickups of the past are not up to the task when it comes to work? Why then has the Tacoma still such a hot selling truck with one of the highest resale values in history. I drove a 2006 Tundra 4x4 and I sold it privately in one day. It did lots of work, pulled my 26 foot travel trailer, my 20 foot boat, Numerous times in the mud and I did not have one issue with it.
Consumers report is as follows.
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/long-term-test-2005-toyota-tacoma-cga- .htm
2006 Tundra is a winner compared to the 2007. I would've kept it if I were you. At least you know that your torque converter will last, your tailgate won't crack nor do you have to worry about your driveshaft being recalled.
I absolutely agree that Toyota is way better company than GM but this particular truck is not up to the usual Toyota standard. As for autos, Toyota is great like Honda, but this new Tundra is all hype as of now. It definitely has the potential to be great but it is too new and has some issues that need resolving. The Big 3 should not relax. This is all good for us comsumers.
But for now, if I have to buy, I'd go with a Chevy or GM. Maybe in a few years, Toyota will surpass GM.
No, Toyota definately produced the bloated Tundra, which is truly full-sized. Just don't put any significant weight on the tailgate when you load the bed.
Second you state that the Toyota pickups of the past are not up to the task when it comes to work? Why then has the Tacoma still such a hot selling truck with one of the highest resale values in history.
I was referring to full size pickups that the previous Tundras were trying to be. If you truly want to compare the Tacoma to full sizes, like say an F-150, then, the F-150 has up to:
3000 lb payload and 11,000 lb towing capacity,
whereas the Tacoma has:
1350 lb payload and 3500 lb towing
which means the F-150 has up to three times the capability of the Tacoma. I'm sure the Tacoma is a fine truck, but if it's everything you say it is, why did Toyota feel the need to build the craptastic bloated Tundra?
I drove a 2006 Tundra 4x4 and I sold it privately in one day. It did lots of work, pulled my 26 foot travel trailer, my 20 foot boat, Numerous times in the mud and I did not have one issue with it.
This may seem incredibly unbelievable to you, but people do all that and more everyday with other brands of trucks, day in and day out, without issues. You may be right, though, the 2006 Tundra may indeed be a better truck than the 2007, and Toyota may indeed be "moving backwards."
Toyota already had to resort to the highest incentives of any manufacturer to move these things off the lot. When Toyota came up with "the truck that's changing it all," they probably didn't think that meant resorting to huge incentives to achieve sales that will likely still miss sales targets.
I wouldn't exactly say their sales are tanking but they are not as robust as Toyota had hoped, no doubt.
You're right, they did design the truck for the weekend warriors. I drive a lot, and see quite a few Tundras here in LA. Not quite as many as new Silverados, but a lot. I would bet dollars to donuts that Toyota's Tundra sales in large metro areas are WAAAAY higher than in more traditional "working truck" regions of the country. And, I RARELY EVER SEE one loaded up heavy, in other words working. Hey, a LOT of work goes on in big cities, and lots of trucks are in hard use here. But not Tundras, interestingly. I am seeing 20:1 Big 3 trucks (new, not total) to Tundra in the work truck category. You see lots of Tundras on the road, but they are all empty, and usually with 1 commuter. Fords, Gms, Dodges have several guys inside and a bunch of gear/tools in the back, and maybe towing a utility trailer, obviously going to work. I suppose you can also say the Tundra is hard at work - taking the accountant to his office.
Yeah, that tailgate thing was a shocker. Until then I thought it was maybe just teething pains, but now it is just cheesy. The tailgate is not welded, it is held together with putty. Good gawd, look at the photos!
And another thing. When comparing problems of various models, it is important to keep something basic in mind re: sales figures. Assuming equal rates of problems of 2 vehicles, Vehicle A that sells three times more units than Vehicle B would be statistically expected to show 3 times more "hits" on a web site dedicated to discussing such issues. I've read posts here that say that Tundra must be superior, because the owners post fewer overall problems. Well, yeah, because there are three times fewer Tundra owners than GM or Ford!
1offroader
I would think that would be obvious by now. :confuse:
Want to know the quickest way to be called a troll? Post a Tundra recall in the Tundra forum.
happy new year & MAY GOD BLESS
My comment was directed to lionclaws. He was insinuating that the person posting was a troll. I merely defined what a troll was. Nothing more nothing less. The fact that the original poster posted once with a blanket comment on the GM AFM doesn't identify him as a troll. Merely a discontented owner venting his opinion. The fact that he never returned doesn't mean anything either. I have posted tons of replies to questions never to hear from the original poster again and not knowing if I had helped them or not.
I've had my Titan close to 3 years. No issues. Probably dump it in two and get another truck. Who knows the Tundra maybe perfected by then and even offer a diesel. Good luck with yours!!
Mele Kalikimaka!!
P.S. Since you're not replying to me and maybe curious as to what it means try google and click under Bing Crosby...
First off there's a lot of Ford, Chevy, and Dodge pick-up truck loyalists out there. It'll take a lot to make 'em switch. Then there's me. I've owned Japanese all my life including 2 Toyotas. When picking my first pick-up I chose a GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 over a Tundra Limited 4x4.
Test driving both, there's no significant difference between the GMC 5.3 and the Toyota 5.7. The Tunrda's 6-speed automatic has a tad less noticeable shift surge if you stomp the gas but it isn't that noticeable. Maybe a stopwatch can tell the difference but off the test track and in the real world both are first class rides.
The deal breaker is Tundra's sub-par interior. On an absolute scale, maybe it rises to almost average but in the price range the Limited sits in - most on the lot were well into the $40k range - its way out of it's league. 6-way driver and 4-way passenger seats don't begin to compare with Sierra's 10-way driver and passenger seats. Tundra features lots of hard plastic and some rather cheap looking knobs. This is the stuff GM used to be criticized for. The Sierra SLT's interior, by contrast, matches that of a near-luxury car. Tundra offers a few clever storage areas like pop-open eye glass holders on the ceiling but a lot of their little cubby holes are impractical.
When you're looking at a vehicle over $35k you expect some extras. The Sierra's command console offers a lot of information like oil viscosity. Sierra also offers OnStar with GPS tracking, engine diagnostics, etc. Forget Tundra. One oddity. A standard feature is to have temperature and a compass display in the rear view mirror. Sierra does this. Tundra displays the compass there but oddly hides the temperature in a hard to read, dimly lit dash display. Don't buy one without running boards because they stand taller than most trucks/SUVs and are a pain in the rear (pun intended) to climb into without one.
It's rumored Toyota delayed their Tundra to match the interior in the Sierra/Silverado. They didn't delay enough because this is a rare case of Toyota's interior being far inferior to the competition.
Quality is the hallmark of Toyota. The Tundra has been recalled twice. For fun Google "Toyota 5.7 breaking camshafts".
Compare stickers. In most configurations you'll find Tundras thousands more than a domestic truck. The sticker on my Sierra SLT was under $37,500. The cheapest extended cab 4x4 Tundra I could find on the lot was over $39k. Note, I'm comparing an '08 Sierra to an '07 Tundra. The salesman didn't bother showing me the '08s because they weren't in my price range (considering incentives). And the cheaper Tundra lacked options like parking assist the Sierra had. The Tundra is no bargain.
I'm sure Toyota will eventually recover. It's not a bad truck by any means. But it's a poor value and requires some upgrades.
That is interesting. My experience was exactly the opposite of yours. I am a former Toyota owner. Had a 85 4x4 pickup and a 92 4x4 pickup. The 85 was great, 92 very mediocre. Had several HORRIBLE repair experiences at the local Toyota dealer with the 92. Looked at all offerings, incl. the new Tundra, and bought the Silverado.
The last Chevy I owned was a 82 Z28 Camaro and it was just OK. Nothing to scream about in quality or performance. So, my decision was based on quality decline of Toyota, as well as a fresh look at Chevy. I also looked at the Ford and Dodge. Both looked pretty damned good overall. Toyota has bit off a chunk, and it will be interesting to see how they repsond to the less than stellar start. In the olden days, Toyota would have had them for lunch by now but the Big 3 have learned that they have to compete or die. They have circled the wagons around their p/ups and have held the line nicely. But that isn't enuf for their long term survival. They now have to reclaim a big chunk of the small and midsize family cars. I see evidence of that in the new Impala. Isn't competition wonderful for the consumer!
And for the record, I would absolutely consider another Toyota vehicle in the future. In fact, depending, I may take a look at the FJ in the next year or 2. It is overall a great auto company.
I think we can probably agree, based on our individual experiences, that overall Silverado has improved, and the Tundra has declined in quality. The relative amount of quality improvement and decline is the issue at hand. Would you agree with that?
1offroader
I'm paid by GM to post favorable reviews? That's a hoot.
Get off your butt, visit the showrooms, and check out the interiors of the Sierra SLT and the Tundra Limited. If you think the Tundra's is superior to the Sierra's best get your eyes examined. Test drive them. If you can find significant differences in ride please feel free to post them here.
One thing I think I forgot to mention is Sierra's 5-star crash rating and 4-star rollover rating. Tundra is 4-star crash and 3-star rollover. It's on the stickers so there's nothing to spin.
The disparity of sticker prices has been pointed out in reviews so it's public knowledge. But since MSPR/invoice doesn't really mean that much in an era where it's out in the open (dealers/manufacturers have found ways to hide the profit) that isn't a big deal until you haggle.
I pick up Monday a fairly well loaded '08 Sierra SLT 4x4 for just under $30k (not counting tags, title, and taxes). I do have an advantage of having about $3k in GM card incentives on top of everything else. The cheapest '07 Tundra Limited 4x4 I could find was stripped except for the TRD suspension and they wanted almost $34k for it and wouldn't budge despite the salesman boasting he sold one the day before and "didn't make a penny profit." He didn't bother showing me an '08 (they were stored somewhere behind the dealership) because they wanted a lot more for them.
One professional review I read stated the sticker on the Tundra base model and high-end Limited was so much higher than the competition they weren't even trying. The mid-price Tundra was close to the GM's. The Tundra 4x4 has a lower quality rating than the Sierra 4x4. I'd go on to state the sub-par interior and mediocre crash tests indicate Toyota's a bit complacent.
The Tundra's running on Toyota's sterling reputation and on an impressive power train which edges out Sierras and Silverados in track tests. But, other than bragging rights, do I care if a Tundra can do 0-60 a few ticks quicker? I'm buying the entire package.
Once again, Toyota is a great company. They're determined to become king of the hill in pickups like everything else. They may get it right the next whack they take at the problem but the '07/'08 Tundra ain't it. I agree with another poster who said the competition benefits the consumer. Without Toyota, Nissan, and Honda all putting out high-quality pick-ups I'd hate to guess what sort of ho-hum pick-up GM would be producing.