Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

john385 · January 2002

"In addition, for the first time in the history of the Polk Automotive Loyalty Awards, an import manufacturer captured more than one award during the same model year. Subaru won in two categories: the Forester, a repeat winner in the Compact Sport Utility Vehicle category; and the Legacy, winner of the Mid-Size Car segment award." in other words, GM with a large Fuji stake makes great Subies!

hazozita · January 2002

Great link John. In terms of service in the DC/VA/MD area, I've used Paul Brothers in Herndon for the past year. Had oil changes, an AC relay repair and a power steering pump replacement done there. It's a small shop, so it can take a few days to get an appointment. But, folks are nice and service has been good.

ateixeira · January 2002

That's a truly impressive award. Think about it, we're still on the first generation, despite the mild update in 2001. That means owners are coming back and buying the same vehicle again the 2nd time around. The number could improve significantly with the arrival of the 2003 Forester.

CR asks buyers if they'd buy the same vehicle again, and the Forester gets their top rating in that category, too, so the Polk Award should not come as a surprise.

Go Subaru! :-)

-juice

armac13 · January 2002

All that really means is that we were crazy the first time and don't learn from our mistakes. :~) Stop throwing things, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

Ross

ateixeira · January 2002

It takes one to know one! ;-)

Actually, I want a professional opinion. Oops, just got one!

-juice

entropy5527 · January 2002

I have three Subaru's (2 Foresters and a SUS) that I absolutely love. I must admit however that I am really unhappy with the CEL on my Foresters. I religiously lock the gas cap to 6 clicks and yet starting at about 60,000 miles my eldest Forester CEL started coming on (I have 130,000 miles so far). So at $45 a whack for a mechanic to turn this little annoyance off every 10,000 I was getting a little hot. Mind you the code is NEVER the same twice. Now this annoys me, but the part that REALLY upset me, is that I asked each mechanic (each in a different state) how I can reset the light myself. The answer, some computer that they can not sell me that costs $1000's of dollars. Then a few months ago I discover that the computer is standardized for all cars mfg since 1996, and not only that but I can buy a cable and software for my palm pilot on ebay for less than $100.00. They retail on automotive tool site new for anywhere from $150-$300. Talk about a dealer rip off. I think the CEL is a scam for dealers to pump a little extra cash into thier repair departments. I would not be so hard on them but more than 7 dealers have lied to me about this 'expensive' computer it is against Subaru policy to sell. The wierder part is it still turns on every 10,000 miles, and the codes are always different....

lakepop · January 2002

James.. I'm on your side with the frustration of a recurring CEL. I would certainly want to know why the thing comes on with such regularity.

Is it a steady light or a blinking one? Obviously a blinking one causes more concern and would cause me to shut down and get to a mechanic. If its a steady one I think I would try a reset on my own. If that clears it...press on. If it comes back on...You are back to the original problem...arrgghh! You do know that a reset is possible by pulling a neg battery cable?

Just a small input and something to ponder...if you haven't done this already. I think you may also consider escalating this thing up the Subaru chain.....

mckeown · January 2002

CEL, this comes on after 2 repeated failures without correcting the error condition. I live in NJ and in this state you CAN NOT pump your own gas. 4 times in 4 months, my CEL light has come on. Each time I could "ratchet" the gas cap, BUT after careful examination, I see the Cap is Cross-Threaded and NOT sealing. So from now on I get out and check to be sure the cap is Properly Seated. (still annoying). I have ALSO purchased an OBDII tool to use with my PC since I take care of quite a few neighbors cars.
TEMP SENSOR, I have seen where people want to know where the sensor for the Dashboard thermometer is, well its right in front of the radiator.
2003 Forester, Maybe go to Subaru.com and look at the Baja, it's a 4 door "Brat" built on the Impreza wheel base. Was told this is what the "new" Forester would look like. About the same size as current, maybe with wishbone rear suspension to eliminate rear strut towers, and Outback type Front end.
My 2 cents..

subearu · January 2002

is built off of the Legacy/Outback chasis, not the Impreza. http://www.subarubaja.com

-Brian

beachfish · January 2002

...but I cured the engine light problem on an old Datsun with a piece of tape and a very, very tiny drill bit. Apply the tape to the dash and drill one hole through it until the bulb breaks.

Oh, those were the days.

John

armac13 · January 2002

Ross

yellowdr · January 2002

I have posted before at the request of my sister, and do so again.

She has always been successfull getting the higher MPG out of her previous vehicles and she only gets 20/20mpg in her 2002 Forester.

She really likes Forester (Automatic) but is very concerned about the MPG. Rightfully so, I can get that kind of mileage in my Jeep Cherokee or S10 4x4.

One previous posting suggested she slow down to 60mph on the highway for better mileage or keep the RPM's low. She will try to "slow down" to see what happens but she wants to know if there is an engine difference with the 2002 or something that she needs to consider that is keeping her from getting the 23-27 advertised.
How long was the "break in" period for your Forester before mileage improved?

I will send on your comments to her. Thanks.

paisan · January 2002

Would you get 20mpg in your Cherokee or S10 with 4wd engaged? I don't think so.

60mph is about where you'll get the best milage, don't forget that they aren't exactly aerodynamic and higher speeds will adversely effect milage a lot.

Break-in on the Forester has been mentioned to be about 3-8K miles before optimal milage is attained. Also don't forget about winter fuel mixtures, longer warm-ups and lots of starts and stops. Everytime you gun it to start out from a light you need to overcome the friction of the AWD system and this can kill milage.

-mike

logtrail · January 2002

Last year at about this time my 99 Forester S cut out from time to time while driving. Had it to the dealer 3 times (once they kept it for 3 days so that the technician could take it home) but the problem did not so up, so nothing was done. In November of this year the car would occasionally not start (sometimes cold, sometimes hot) and dealer could not reproduce the problem. Brought it to another dealer; service manage said that could not be replicated. As I argued with her to say "Im not lying" and she said "the tech must have the problem happen to him" and was about to leave the tech came in to say that the car did not start. Hallelejia. I'm somewhat bothered by the policy that if the problem does not happen while the car is in the shop it cant be fixed. Let's see what the diagnosis is as I leave the car in for another sleepover. Noted in a recent Consumer Reports that the 2000 Forester had some fuel system problems. Wonder if the 99s have the same problems but not reported by enough CR respondants??

paisan · January 2002

Logtrail, how pre-tell do you expect them to fix a problem that doesn't exist? I'm not dealer-lover, but that is one policy that I kinda agree with. I mean they can investigate but it's hard to fix a car that doesn't start if it starts fine for them. Other policies like "they all do that" get me more torqued up personally.

-mike

mainemojo · January 2002

Armed with some previous feedback from this forum, I assured my wife that paying attention to the cap would eliminate the CEL problem on her new '02 Forester, where the light came on after our first fill-up, at less than 400 miles. Alas, she made sure to turn the thing four clicks after filling up again this morning, and by afternoon the CEL was shining. OK, it's *probably* nothing more serious -- the light isn't flashing -- but it sure is a pain in the a--.

Mo

rsunico · January 2002

I've had my '01 Forester L for 8 months and close to 11,000 miles. I bought the car after talking to 4 people at work who owne Foresters (98, 99, 01, 01). All feedback was A+++. Its fun and EASY to drive. Superb in snow and rain. I don't anticipate any problems (unlike my $40,000 Saab convertible). By now any manufacturing defects should have been evident. Complaints: 1) I want more leg room in the back -- that's it. How much do I like my Subie? When I was in travelling in Hawai'i, California and Rhode Island the past month, I missed my Subie (GM rentals suck). When I got back home to NJ, I went straight to the Forester and went for a drive... and I LEFT the Saab (and left my Saab convertible in the garage. My one advice for buying a used Subie: try to find a newer model (00-01).

masan · January 2002

I've been considering purchasing a Forester, but I'm concerned about the Check Engine Light problem. Has anyone tried replacing the original gas cap with a gas cap that doesn't have to be removed when pumping gas? Brookstone at one time made a gas cap with a slot in it for the nozzle. My father has one on his car.

For over 14 years now, I've driven a Toyota, the same Toyota, in fact. In test driving the RAV-4 and the Forester, I was more comfortable with the handling of the Forester and therefore eliminated the RAV-4 from consideration. However, I really want the reliability of a Toyota and also think that parts would be easier to find in the future for the Toyota.

My heart is with the Forester, but alas, I may have to consider the Camry even though I'd rather have the versatility of a hatchback/wagon/SUV.

I would be interested in the Honda CR-V if it improves in the crash test ratings and if the dealers start discounting them. I'm not willing to pay a premium price just because they're new and in demand when I could get around a $1400 discount on a Forester L.

I thought about waiting for the 2003 model Forester. With all the talk about the possibility of it being more SUV-like, though, I might rather have the current model. I would like having a cross between a car and an SUV.

The Matrix, Protege5, and Impreza Wagon would be possibilities, but the slightly heavier vehicles such as the Forester, RAV-4, CR-V, Accord, and Camry would be safer.

Decisions!

kens · January 2002

CELs can be triggered by many things including loose gas caps -- it's all due to the sensitive OBDII system on many cars today. It's not having to remove the gas cap that's the problem but rather not putting it back on properly. I would imagine the gas cap from Brookstone could also throw a CEL if the slot didn't close properly.

The Forester has proven to be a very safe and reliable vehicle. It's a great balance between those who want a wagon with some SUV styling and light offroad capabilities.

Ken

lakepop · January 2002

mainemojo...most are aware of the need to close the gas cap securely (3+ clicks).Also if you "top off" during the fill in order to round off the cost to some value you risk an overfill. Given the sensitivity of the emmission system..this can also give you a CEL. Just remember once the pump gives you an automatic shutoff..don't try to squeeze more than a couple of pennies .
As a last resort..do a reset to clear a "non blinking " light.
Just a little more input.....:)

pattim3 · January 2002

FWIW - OBDII in ALL vehicles requires a CEL to go on if it detects any "issues" with the emissions system. I agree that it is a pain, but it isn't something that the manufacturers can control. You can purchase the diagnosic tool. The problem comes with pricing being high and the regular updates in the software to read the codes.

There are currently over 125 reasons for a CEL. The scan tool can pinpoint the code, but for a fix, you have to be able to research the code.

As I said, I know it is a pain, but it's a regulated issue from the Gov't.

Thanks,

Patti

mainemojo · January 2002

lakepop, Patti: I'm not at all disappointed in the Forester -- or my '00 Legacy, which occasionally has the CEL/fuel cap problem, too. And I understand why it happens and why it's required. And in my case, it probably happens a little more frequently because we tend to use a gas station that provides full service at self-serve prices. It's just annoying, especially when the vehicle has less than 500 miles.

lakepop · January 2002

mainemojo..."annoying" would be a nice way to put it. The mileage may have little to do with the light..if the cap is leaking or the attendant is overfilling. If you are sure that's not happening take it to the dealer <500 miles is now an issue he should be able to correct.
Glad you like your Subes. My gas mileage has gone dramatically down.....I suspect because of the very cold weather/oxygenated fuel. I plan to do a "reset" today to give the ECU a new start point. I know that it would gradually adjust, but this should shorten the learning curve.
Hope you resolve the CEL...I hate them!

jei · January 2002

I bought a new Forester "S" in 1999 after owning the same Toyota ('85 Tercel SR5 4WD wagon) for 14 years (& 280,000 miles) as well. Still glad I did. i researched and agonized... The RAV4 seemed too light, slow and cramped. The CRV slow and saddled with a dumb tailgate design. The Outback was more spacious, but nowhere near as nimble.

My Forester has been very reliable, with only a brake job and cruise control repair in 88K miles so far - even if not quite up to the Toyota Gold Standard. What's kept me so happy has been the Forester's character; handling, comfort, power and practicality. It's fun to drive and a pleasure to live with. Great in upstate NY rain, snow and dry weather. Yes, the rear seat is a little tight and the cupholders less than perfect - minor gripes only.

In 5-10 years when I plan to replace the Forester, I'd look at Toyotas and whatever else is available. If I had to replace my car tomorrow, I'd buy another Forester.

Good luck in your decision making.

John

tincup47 · January 2002

Diagnostic codes for CEL's are standardized. OBDII is federally mandated and all manufacturers selling cars in the U.S. have to comply. Any OBDII scanner from any source can read the codes and/or reset them. This means any service facility can read the codes and know which components are behind them, although the proper repair steps are best documented at the dealers, which have access to all the latest info from the manufacturer. For most codes, resetting will only solve the problem until the component goes out of spec again, then the light will be triggered again. In most cases it does not take more than a slight signal anomoly from one of the many sensors to set off a CEL, which is why most manufacturers find them a major pain in the neck.

ateixeira · January 2002

Keep something in mind - the CEL is mandated by OBD2, and it industry-wide, not unique to Subaru. Be happy if you only paid that much, because my wife's 626 had one and it needed a new O2 sensor. The part alone was $220! I do agree that OBD2 is a real pain, and serves only to increase dealers' profits.

PermaCap makes a cap you don't remove, but I'm not sure how well it seals or if it'll resolve some of the CELs.

20mpg is not bad - Edmunds just got 12mpg on one tank with their Mazda Tribute. Still, I found that it actually can take a year or so before the engine is running at peak efficiency. I bet a year from now she'll be getting 22-23 mpg.

Wow John, 88k is a lot! I'd buy another Forester today, too! Go ahead a price any alternative with everything the Forester S Premium has (AWD, ABS, moonroof, side air bags, heated seats, CD changer in-dash, cruise, keyless, etc.) - and spend another $5 grand. Not me.

Bottom line: yes CELs are a minor pain in the neck, but what does it tell you if that's the biggest complaint Forester owners have?

-juice

tincup47 · January 2002

Since ongoing CEL's negatively affect a dealers service CSI, and most manufacturers have bonus programs based on those numbers, they can actually cost the dealers profit. Japanese manufacturers must pay higher licensing fees for emissions technology. I used to work at an Isuzu dealer when the Trooper had the same 2.8 engine as the Chevrolet Blazer. The Isuzu part was identical to the GM part, and if you dropped the first and last number from the Part number they were the same number. Isuzu charged $300.00 for the O2 sensor, the same item from the local GM dealer was $49.00. Dealer had identical markup percentage between cost and list.

logtrail · January 2002

Paisan,
What about the good old diagnostic procedure of checking the spark plugs, fuel filter, fuel pump etc. According to your philosophy my wife is to drive the car until it cuts out going 40mph (it has done this) and maybe causing an accident. When I knew more about cars in the good old days (and I was even a parts man !!) a mechanic would take your word that there was a problem and do a a thorough diagnostic test of each probable element. And how many times should I bring the car in when the problems reoccurs? 5, 50, 500? Human patience has its limits. And I have not gotten an answer about the "fuel system problems" reported in Consumer Reports. Is it just the filler cap folks have reported or are there other problems? Hmmm?

ateixeira · January 2002

I haven't heard of any other fuel system problems, so it probably is related to the CEL issue. One Outback owner had a bad fuel injector, but that's just one case, and it was an Outback.

-juice

paisan · January 2002

The problem you described was a starting problem not a fuel cutout problem. I also said they should have checked it out as best they could, but if there are no problems they can find and the problem is occuring at the time, then how could you expect them to track it down? My uncle had the same problem with a honda that was on a lease, it would cut out at random times, 4 honda dealers checked all the systems and found nothing. Luckily his lease was up.

The CR report is the first Fuel system problem I've heard of at least on this board.

-mike

kens · January 2002

Subaru of Japan has graphics files you can download to use on your desktop. The graphics contain images of the Forester as well as a calendar for Dec-Feb.

http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester/desktop/desktop.htm

Ken

mytypewriter · January 2002

My 00 Forester has 30,000 miles on it and took it to the dealer for the scheduled maintenance. I also told them that I smelled burning smell after driving for a while. As it turns out, the engine head gasket was broken and they will have to order the part to fix it. I was quite surprised to hear that this could happen to a relative new car.

I always think the Subaru is a reliable car and didn't want to purchase the extended warranty, but since this happens, it makes to think that I might need it just in case. Please advise both on head gasket problem and investment on the warranty. Thanks

lakepop · January 2002

Apparently SOA is trying to get rid of a lot of accessory items. Found this in the i-club/Forester forum:

www.subaru.com/mailing/accessory/index.htm

Some really nice prices!

ateixeira · January 2002

Your powertrain is covered for another 30k miles. If the problem is resolved for that long, it'll likely never come up again.

Gotta check out those accessories. I want some tweeters.

-juice

ateixeira · January 2002

Hmm, they list the tweeter kit for the Legacy and Impreza, but not Forester. Anyone know if they're all the same size? All you need is the two speakers, the wiring and grille are already there.

I'd get the illuminated vanity mirrors, too, if it fit the Forester. The sun visors have a different shape (I've checked). I would not mind having the padded, cloth visor from the Legacy to go with the vanity lights, but oh well.

Finally, $64 alloys?! That's a deal. I bet they are 15"x6", though, not 16"x7". Probably the ones optional on the Legacy L.

-juice

rsholland · January 2002

some real good prices there, but nothing I want...

Bob

ateixeira · January 2002

I don't like the woodgrain. I'd take carbon fiber if some one gave it to me, but I would not pay for it. I have the cargo cover. I don't like the spoiler or sport grille, even though both are available in my Acadia Green Metallic.

Looks like they have leftovers from the '98-'00 models, and some stuff from the 2001 that they don't think they'll sell by the time the 2003 comes out.

Hmm, maybe that means the 2003 will be different, enough so that none of the stuff will fit?

Let's not get our hopes up again, after Baja, right Bob?

-juice

kens · January 2002

Same here. Nothing there that I want.

juice -- are you ready to hear Elmo sing in even higher fidelity? ;-)

Ken

ateixeira · January 2002

Yeah, without them the high in "Thaaaat's, Elmo's Soooooong!" just doesn't quite do it for me. It's painful.

Though I don't think the tweeters will help!

-juice

cyberpirate · January 2002

juice- If you already have grille and wiring go for it. The tweeters themselves are same.

lark6 · January 2002

mytypewriter: I also have an '00 Forester and had a head gasket fail at 30K miles. Repaired under warranty and 4K miles later no problems yet to resurface. I was pretty upset too, as others here will attest. I don't know whether ours are isolated cases or signs of a trend worthy of an SoA recall. If the latter then this may be a point to bring up to the dealer in negotiating the terms of the extended warranty. I've acknowledged that parts can fail on even the best cars and, while it stinks that it had to happen to you (and me) the level of attention I received from SoA and the dealer and the fact that the repair was done quickly and properly went a long way in restoring my faith in Subaru.

Good luck,
Ed

logtrail · January 2002

Re: discussion about my 99 S cutting out/stalling. Tech seems to think that it is the
air flow sensor and will replace. I hope that does the trick.

felch1 · January 2002

Can anyone explain the process of changing a headlight bulb on my Forester S 2002 please.
Does one need to take off the cover or do you go in from somewhere else?
Thanks in advance

ateixeira · January 2002

OK, will hit the dealer and buy the tweeter kit for the Legacy, then. I mean, $16? How could you not want them?

felch: you approach from inside the engine bay. There is a rubber cover you sort of peel back first. Then you'll find a metal clip that you sort of have to pinch together and pull back and down. That locks the bulb in place. Once it's out, the bulb pulls right out, then just unplug it from the harness.

The first time it took me a few minutes, but I can do it in about 15 seconds now.

-juice

nygreg · January 2002

Can you touch the bulbs with your fingers, or should you use gloves/rag?

Greg

ateixeira · January 2002

You don't have to touch them (and shouldn't, good point). Touch only the metal, back half of the bulb itself.

It's an H4 bulb, BTW, and has a 3 prong connector that plugs into the harness.

-juice

kens · January 2002

juice -- $16 is a steal. I'd get them too, if I were you.

Greg -- If you do touch the bulbs, then you must make sure you wipe them down with some rubbing alcohol before finishing the installation. The oil from your fingers will create hot spots on the glass and may cause premature failure.

Ken

purduealum91 · January 2002

Gang:

Seeing how the mini-SUV market contains many fine vehicles, I can help to think the Forester is hurting. In my opinion, it needs to grow in size and the top of the line needs to get less expensive. Just my opinion. What are your thoughts?

tincup47 · January 2002

One thing about all comparo's in magazines, Newer designs almost always fare better than older ones. Automotive journalists are very biased in this regard, but seeing how they see and drive so many of the same vehicles everyday, they tend to get excited at any improvement, regardless if it actually is significant or not. I agree the Forester needs an update, and they have one coming up in 2003. But it is still a very fine vehicle which will meet a lot of peoples needs. It used to be you could sell vehicles for many years with upgrades and minor styling updates, like the VW Bug which was basically the same for over 20 years, or the original Range Rover which was largely the same for 25 years (1970-1995). This is not the case today, as after 5 years sale start to tail off for most models.

fernieguy · January 2002

Its funny how fast things can change in the car market now, four years ago the Forester was hailed as the best thing around (because it was new, I think the people doing the reviewing are biased to new models and such and don't look at the real utility of these vehicles. I personally don't think the Forester has to increase in size although more rear legroom would be nice, If you want bigger, buy and Outback, if that isn't enough then you pretty much have to leave the Car market and start looking at larger vehicles. The only thing I would really like to see added to the Forester is a Dual Range tranny like the old boxy GL wagons had. I do agree that the mini-SUV/SUW is a very crowded place now. How many manufacturers offer AWD wagons now...Volvo, Audi, VW, Toyota, Suzuki..and others. The person with the best car out there is the one who is having the most fun, and my Forester is fun to drive.

Thats what I think

Stephen

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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