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Comments
In the case of my experience with the electrical plug on the TPS, I think that was a rare event (in my case), so at this stage in your analysis I wouldn't suspect that. What I meant for you to check is your TPS to make sure it is okay. That will give you those same type of symptoms you're having and is not hard for someone familiar with them to check out.
As far as your ATF fluid type, in my opinion your best bet is to call the dealer and ask them. I too have heard and seen conflicting reports of using a different fluid, but it's not for all Jeeps. There are some Chrysler service bulletins on that too.
Try reviewing the Haynes manual. Some early JGCs have a way to get the codes by making lights blink on the dashboard.
If you buy a reader make sure your jeep and OBD reader are compatible. Whoever sells it to you should be able to help you verify this.
I'm not sure if a parts store can do this or how much a mechanic might charge you. It's not a complicated test if you have the manual to show where to place the test probes and what reading to be looking for.
Now I am faced with replacing the torque converter and inner/outer clutches at a cost of over $3,000.00! My warranty just ended.
I find this absurd since I have complained about a problem for 4 years. The lemon laws in my state say they have not heard of any issues with my car.
I found one recall on this year and make concerning the transmission fluid leaking into the coolant and potentially causing a fire.
I have the feeling that the dealerships are avoiding working on transmission problems while under warranty.
now I am faced with replacing the torque converter and clutches and the warranty is expired!
Lemon laws are no help and Chrysler is no help. Seems the only way out is to leave the thing at the dealer and walk away. Oh yeah, I still have payments on ht e loan. :sick: :lemon:
If it shifts and operates well when warm then the problem is likely not something mechanical in the transmission. It may be related to the sensors. The Throttle Position Sensor tells the TCM (transmission control module) whether you want more power. The Transmission input sensor tells the TCM how much fluid pressure the transmission is developing. When the pressure gets high enough the TCM tells the Solenoid Governor to move enough to allow the transmission to shift to the next gear. (Or the other way around when slowing down.) I believe there is also a speed sensor. Any of the input sensors going bad or the solenoid governor going bad can affect when the transmission shifts.
These are each less expensive to fix than a new transmission and are probably the first place to start looking.
The "delicate" parts I mentioned, when malfunctioning can produce foamy fluid as posted in #527. I totally agree with the approach Boazbez takes.
If internal leaks are the culprit (see below), then a rebuild that saves big $ might be worth a try.
If you get a rebuild ask them to explain how they rebuild the clutch. Ask about the clutch discs. Tell them you want the old parts they replace in a bag. If they act insulted, go somewhere else.
I have a 97 shop manual for Jeep Grand Cherokee and here's what they say:
(STUCK IN LOW GEAR. WILL NOT UPSHIFT)
Possible causes are:
Throttle link misadjusted/stuck
Gearshift linkage misadjusted
Governor component electrical fault
Front band out of adjustment
Clutch or servo malfunction.
According to the manual, fluid "foaming", occurs when fluid gets into gear train and is churned by it. A common cause is a pump seal leak.
the solenoids cause the trans to shift if it dosent shift right the first thing you do is change the oil and filters drive it for a while to see if that fixed prob then wonder bout change of trans if that didnt fix the prob but you have to drive alittle bit first
my brother is a auto mechanic but he lives out west, he said this seems to be to much so he going to call this guy to find out what he did to my jeep. plus he didnt understand why this guy would bypass any hoses but will find out when he talks to him... i will get back to you when i find out more.... one other thing he said everything runs okay now but in 2 days or weeks it could act up again and if it does he said it could be the transmission. he also said when pulled the transmission pan he found no metal shaving.. so i'll get back to you when i find out more. i wish you luck on your jeep.
I have a 97 JGC with 175K. I have 1 cylinder that is slightly out of spec. I think its the reason I can't get a smooth idle, but it runs fairly well. I don't know what happens if another cylinder starts to go bad. I would not spend over $500 to fix anyting on it.
Everybody is different, but it's nice to make an informed decision.
Check out this link for details on what's involved.
http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442673
Here is a link to what's involved: (In case you want to do it yourself.)
http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442673
If you know exactly what you want to have done to try it out, shop the job to a few mechanics and see what price you can get.
so i took it to a transmission place. so this is what he said; is he did the computer scan and it said that the governor actual pressure was 0 psi. he also drop the pan and found torque convertor cluch material. so what he did;
replaced governor solenoid [A500 solenoid]
trans filter & pan gasket
add synthetic atf 8 qts
then he said found converter applied/drag so he;
bypass restricted cooler
install independent transmission cooler TOTAL COST: $700.00
WE WENT TO PICK UP THE JEEP IT TOOK US 15-20MIN TO GET HOME. CAN YOU BELEIVE IT STARTED TO DO THE SAME THING EXCEPT IT SEEMS TO BE SLIPPING OUT BETWEEN 2nd and 3rd. So we took it back. and he'll let me know this monday. PLEASE IF ANYONE CAN HELP ME WITH SOME ADVICE I COULD REALLY USE IT!!!! THANKS [ IM I LOOKING AT A REBUILT TRANS..]
Let me know if you discover something that indicates I am wrong.
Thanks!
Specs on my 2006 Grand Cherokee Laredo
Only 33,500 miles
V8, 4.7 L
545RFE transmission
I wrote earlier what my original problem was. It worked fine on the ride home from work. Next morning on a cold startup, it would not engage reverse or drive. At least it parked. Tried it again later... and reverse will catch, but not drive. I have to rev the engine around 6000 rpm in order for it catch in gear to drive, automatically stays in 3rd until it comes to a rest and have rev it high again to catch.
Anyways, I'm almost certain I don't need the trans entirely replaced. I feel like I'm being conned out of at least $5000.
Trouble Codes:
P0700 Trans
P0871 OD Switch functionality
P0876 UD Switch functionality
P0731 Gear 1 ratio
P0732 Gear 2 ratio
P0733 Gear 3 ratio
P0944 Hydraulic Pressure Unit Loss of Pressure
An excerpt from the manual states:
"The hydraulic control system design (without electronic assist) provides the transmission with PARK, REVERSE, NEUTRAL, SECOND, and THIRD gears, based solely on driver shift lever selection. This design allows the vehicle to be driven (in“limp-in” mode) in the event of a electronic control system failure, or a situation that the Transmission Control Module (TCM) recognizes as potentially damaging to the transmission. The TCM also performs certain self-diagnostic functions and provides comprehensive information sensor data, DTC’s,etc.) which is helpful in proper diagnosis and repair. This information can be viewed with the DRB scan tool."
Besides having the trouble codes read, has anyone looked at the TCM with a DRB scan tool? If you do get someone, pick and choose carefully, as I had the dealer transmission mechanic analyze mine and he came up with nothing. (After my own tinkering, I found it to be one of my solenoids) That was after I wasted a hundred bucks at the dealer. Does your Jeep operate in "limp" mode? Also, I notice some of the sensors are located outside the transmission making it a little easier to get at. Page 74 of the manual has interesting information on the "Line Pressure Sensor".
At 33,500 miles, your Jeep is still new. I would find it very hard to believe something more than a sensor, solenoid, or some other electronic related problem is happening. Please keep us posted, as the more info to go on, the better.
Could I possibly burn up the clutch to a point where parts of it are laying in the trans pan? Wouldn't I know if it was ruining my clutch, via smell or sounds, etc? How about the fact they want to replace the whole transmission instead of replacing the clutch?
Found this diagnostic manual link title and thought it might be helpful in your analysis.
What I'm interested in knowing is what causes P0871 (OD Pressure Switch Sense Circuit) and P0876 (UD Pressure Switch Sense Circuit) to be set. From the manual it states:
LINE PRESSURE (LP) SENSOR
DESCRIPTION
The TCM utilizes a closed -loop system to control
transmission line pressure. The system contains a
variable force style solenoid, the Pressure Control
Solenoid, mounted on the side of the solenoid and
pressure switch assembly. The solenoid is duty cycle
controlled by the TCM to vent the unnecessary line
pressure supplied by the oil pump back to the sump.
The system also contains a variable pressure style
sensor, the Line Pressure Sensor, which is a direct
input to the TCM. The line pressure solenoid moni-
tors the transmission line pressure and completes the
feedback loop to the TCM. The TCM uses this infor-
mation to adjust its control of the pressure control
solenoid to achieve the desired line pressure.
At this point, I'm suspecting this very possibly might have something to do with it. Any type of solenoid is a possible "weak link" in the chain.
Since they came back and told me the clutch was burnt (still don't believe that), why would they want to replace the entire transmission? I understand they want to make a lot of money off this...
1) To scare me into trading the jeep in for a new one
2) To make a killing off a replacement transmission
3) They don't actually know how to fix it
Really this is just venting...
Trouble codes often do not pinpoint the bad part, they can be also showing the chain of events caused by a bad part.
First at 35K+ miles the powertrain is still under factory warranty you shouldn't have to pay for replacing the tranny. It is the preferred scenario to replace the whole unit though. Once you have problems, any old parts will be contaminated with metal flakes, which is the like cancer for automatics.
The other thing I don't get is how you can have pieces from the clutch when it is an automatic. Pieces from the torque converter is more likely. From what you are describing the it seems the dealer you are using is not dealing straight.
42RE Shifting Solutions
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/july98/techtips.htm
At this link title, scroll down to select your transmission model and it will bring up a .pdf file for your tranny. I must have been tired, as I caught myself sometimes clicking on 42LE instead of 42RE. It looks like they have you test the solenoid(s) at the whip plug into the transmission (I wish I would have known about this method when I was first diagnosing my tranny). Not sure how easy it is to access on your vehicle. This is handy even if you prefer doing it from underneath with the pan off.
Another link title is this Transmission Diagnosis file. Even though it's for a 1997 Dodge pickup, I assume many of the methods would still apply.
Last but not least is this link title on the Service Manual for a 1996 JGC. The password next to the link on the page (I later found out) is for when you go to extract the zip file on your computer. It ends up putting the pages into a folder named "ZJ". They're only labeled by numbers, so you end up clicking on them to find out what they are. I found the transmission on file "96ZJ_21". The rest of the manual is also handy for it's wiring diagrams.
I found out tranny solenoids are very fussy. If they're the least bit out of the ohm's test range, they're considered bad even though technically they might still work mechanically. Good luck and please keep us up to date on your progress.
I was offered a "good will" warranty to cover the expenses of the replacement transmission. Instead of a ridiculous $5,000, I'm paying $500 for the deductible.
Not to get too detailed, but "good will" warranties are rarely given. The reason I received it was because of the purchasing relationship the company I work for has with Chrysler. Chrysler was not in good standing with my company and hence as a way to show good faith and to possibly generate business again, they extended this warranty to me. I am very fortunate.
Unfortunately, I did not get many details from the service dept at the dealer besides their haphazard diagnosis of looking only at the transmission pan and finding clutch shavings. I will be asking quite a few questions when I pick up my Jeep. It is literally irresponsible for the dealer to charge that much to replace a transmission without properly going through trouble code procedures. I've always loved Jeeps and Chrysler barely saved themselves from losing a lifetime customer in me.
The link link title Boazbez gave you has excellent pictures and descriptions of solenoids on your tranny. link title shows a simplified diagram testing a solenoid with a multimeter in the ohm's testing mode. Have you tried getting someone with a DRB scan tool to test the solenoids?
In my case, when worse came to worse, I pulled the pan and tested the solenoids directly. I figured I'd find out right then if any were bad, and be all set to replace one (or more) with the pan off.
The Snap-on Modis scanner should read it, my brother has access to one at his garage.
I wouldn't recommend buying one just to find out, but is it possible for you to borrow one somewhere to try in your vehicle? At this point, all I'm saying is your problem sounds similar to the post I read. (I'm assuming whoever installed your transmission adjusted the throttle kickdown cable and park/neutral switch correctly)