Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

canadatwo · January 2002

impreza was spring 2001.

sept is still summer (until the 20th at least)

gotenks243 · January 2002

Someone up above asked for translations of the new Forester preview at http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester , so...

Monday- Monday, with Forester, I returned from the ski place to the office. I received borderless energy. With the Just Height Package, even the weekdays have a free feeling. Even in the city it's easy to drive and treats you well, high points of notice. At the optimum seat height, getting in and out is easy, even for women.

...okay, I was going to do the rest of the week but it's getting late and this is going to take a while. I'll pick up the other six days tomorrow.

Mike

storyteller · January 2002

I'm disappointed to see from the teaser photos that the new Forester will be RHD, but if the car is going to give me "high points of notice," sign me up for one! :-}

mainemojo · January 2002

The Center for Auto Safety's 2002 edition of The Ultimate Car Book is out today. Forester (midsize SUVs) and Legacy (compact cars) both make the list of recommended vehicles. See http://www.autosafety.org.

gotenks243 · January 2002

That "High points of notice" was literally "High Eyepoints"...which I'm guessing would mean something that catches your eye. I was hard pressed to make that flow right in English you see.

Mike

storyteller · January 2002

Gotenks243: "High points/eyepoints" -- hey, close enough! Your command of Japanese seems a lot stronger than that of anyone else in here. Thanks.

oregonboy · January 2002

I'm guessing that "high eyepoints" means "high point of view".

The forester has been critisized for being a "tall station wagon" and lacking the commanding high view of a "true SUV". Perhaps the new Forester addresses that issue. Personally, I prefer handling over high eyepoints, and hope that Subaru hasn't turned the NEW Forester into a run-of-the-mill, tall mini-ute.

hypov · January 2002

The roads are increasingly saturated with tall vehicles cause more people want this "high eyepoints" or "high point of view". As it is today, there isn't any clear advantage.
In time to come; what will it be? Higher Point of View?

-Dave

kens · January 2002

Yep, handling is paramount to a commanding view for me too.

I don't think Subaru is going to make the Forester another mini-ute. It would go against their whole saftey and low center of gravity design principles.

I recall an argument going back and forth between Forester and CR-V owners a loooong time ago back in the the Forester vs. CR-V topic. The CR-V owners kept arguing that having a commanding view of the road was as important as handling for saftey.

Ken

simon_dedalus · January 2002

I bought a 2002 Forester L last Wednesday.

On the contract, it clearly states:

Auto, Keyless entry, cernter armrest console, CD player

*Security system upgrade installed.

I negotiated a reasonable deal:

Edmunds TMV on the Forester
and something between "Good" and "Fair" on Kelly's Blue Book on my 1991 Mazda MX-6.

When I took possession of my car on Wednesday evening, my salesperson and I noticed that a CD player was not installed in the car. He said not too worry about it and that he'd talk to his manager and take care of it the next day.

I left an email for him on Friday since I had not heard from him and have tried contacting him by phone for several days without luck.

Finally, I received an email from him today saying that he was still working on it, but that since "we only made $23 on your deal, I'm having a tough time convincing my sales mgr to give you one for free. What I can most probably do is get you one at cost. I'll let you know."

Now, I think we all know they made well over $23 on the deal even if the CD player was included in the deal.

What's my next step in dealing with them?

Thanks for any advice or help.

--Paul

speterson1 · January 2002

Paul --

We had the identical situation happen when we picked up our 2001 last year -- we had ordered a CD player, it was on the invoice, during pickup we were all excited as we drooled over our new Forester and....hmmm, where's the CD player? The big difference between your situation and ours was that our dealership immediately realized it was their mistake (I almost felt sorry for our salesman, he actually blushed when he realized there was supposed to be a CD player in our vehicle) and installed one free as soon as they could get one in.

If you have the CD player on the invoice, and the invoice shows the price you have already paid for the vehicle, you should get the CD player installed free of charge. You've paid for it. Just make sure you *do not* lose your copy of the invoice (might want to make a xerox just in case), and politely ask them to install your CD player. If the salesman keeps trying to make a fast buck by selling you a CD player twice, just ask to speak to the manager. Frankly, I'm pretty shocked that your salesman is even attempting this, your invoice is proof of payment and there's no way he can get away with what he's trying. Good luck and keep us posted on what happens.

Steve

lark6 · January 2002

Although there is a "sport grille" available in the US for the '01-02 Foresters, there are to my knowledge no optional grilles available for the '98-00 models. One must then look abroad for options, of which I'm aware of two:

1. A Japanese Domestic Market (JDM) grille, which has a black metallic mesh background and a chrome stylized lower case "f" in the middle, rather than a Subaru logo badge (I've seen one of these for sale on ebay);
2. A grille with black metallic mesh background and the Subaru logo badge in the middle. This grille was standard on the Forester S turbo in the UK and Europe and on the Forester GT in Australia and New Zealand. In Japan it was standard on the Forester S/tb and, with the color of the Subaru logo badge background changed from metallic black to cherry pink, on the Forester STi. Pink is the chosen color of STI, Subaru's in-house performance division.

It's the latter that I bought to replace the chromed grille on my '00 Forester S; a Forester GT grille from Australia combined with the Forester STi grille badge from Japan. I was able to take advantage of a favorable exchange rate between the US and Australia but shipping is where you get nailed.

I like the look of having less chrome on the front of the car (of course, I could have accomplished this with a Forester L grille) plus the pink badge gives the car a bit of a cartoonish look, like a rabbit (which is another STi symbol; Subaru first built a Vespa-like scooter called the Rabbit as Japan recovered from WWII). Some people will criticize you for attaching this factory performance symbol to your car without having other performance modifications to back it up; there's a nasty bit of slang they use which I won't repeat here. These people are mostly the ones who know all the minutiae about the various models and special editions Subaru offers in Japan and around the world. I intend to move in that direction in the near future so I'm not as concerned.

I'll check back later with links to some non-USA Subaru parts sources if you're still interested. The i-club is another good source of these contacts.

Ed

1subydown1togo · January 2002

I second what Steve said...show the manager the invoice and the price agreed upon...if they continue to give you problems, call up SOA, complain, and also tell your salesman that when the SOA survey comes around, you will make sure to give them a black eye on it!

paisan · January 2002

I wouldn't have taken delivery of the vehicle, only because in some states once you walk off the lot you may have given up some rights. Chances are you are still covered and that paper is the key. Heck when I bought my trooper, my dealer gave me the sales invoice for a LIMITED instead of an LS. Theoretically I could have demanded the Limited, but since I was good friends with them, I swapped the paperwork a few days later.

-mike

kens · January 2002

Paul,

I'd definetly call SOA and get a case started. The dealer is up to no good and needs to be reprimanded.

Also, the dealer is making more than what you pay over invoice. The dealer gets guaranteed profit in a form of a kick-back based off of invoice price.

One thing you may want to consider is to see if they'll pay, in cash, the amount they owe you for the CD player. You could get it installed at a different dealer or purchase an aftermarket one.

Ken

adanne · January 2002

Thanks for the information. I would be very interested in the other links you mentioned. It's too bad that I did not realize that the 2000 was going to be around for such a short while and be replaced with an updated model. I would have waited for the 2001. I like that grille much better. Thanks again

allhorizon · January 2002

I have overlaid the wire-mesh image on top of a handy Forester side view 2000/2001 image from the subaru.com.au website. The fit is so perfect, it is at first hard to make out any differences at all. If the wire-mesh image is indeed true to the 2003 model (and not just one of many early drawings based on the existing model), Subaru made extremely conservative and mostly cosmetic changes. However,

1. the 2003 appears to be about 1.5" longer in the front and in the back (3" total), with the wheelbase at most 1" longer (if any)
2. the front and back door openings are a hint more roundish, so is the front fender
3. the back fender is a bit rounder at its front, still has its straight top, although at a slanted angle (higher in the back)
4. there is no indication of larger wheel wells - if anything, the front one is not as tall
5. the top of the back door and the third side window are a bit shorter to make room for the wide C-pillar
6. the additional space in the front appears to be entirely in the hood and front bumper areas, indicating more safety and a bit more room for a larger engine
7. Can't say much about how the seat arrangement has changed, other than that the additional outside room should allow equivalent changes in the rear set and cargo areas.

- D.

jim1969 · January 2002

What is the web site to see the teaser pictures of the 2003 Forester? I can't wait until the 6th.

hypov · January 2002

Here you go Jim

http://210.254.95.20/showroom/for_popup/newforester_top.htm

-Dave

lark6 · January 2002

I bought my grille at City Subaru in Brisbane, Australia:

http://www.city-automotive.com.au/subaru_parts_frame.htm

They were very courteous and prompt in delivery.

Contrary to what you write the 1998-2000 Foresters were around longer than the updated 2001-02 models and you'll most likely see more of them on the road. The 01-02's got a minor cosmetic refreshing but have received a number of additional useful features that were either extra cost options or unavailable on the 98-00's. That's what usually happens when a model nears the end of its production. I wish our 00's had some of those features but IMO I like the grille and taillight treatments of the 98-00's better.

Hope this helps,

Ed

goldencouple1 · January 2002

If it was negotiated and appears on the invoice as part of the deal for the price paid, then you are owed a CD player. If it is not on you car it is a mistake or fraud on the dealer's part -- one or the other. If it is a mistake, the dealership puts the CD player in for free, no questions asked and with a big apology. If anyone associated with the dealership tries anything different than putting the CD player in and giving you a big apology, then it is fraud and the salesman's guilt is the dealer's guilt until proven otherwise. Don't mess around. Tell the dealer, there is one guy who's the "dealer" at the dealership, the guy who's on the papers with Subaru, tell the dealer that if you don't get your CD player yesterday, you're going to the police, then you're calling all the TV stations, then your calling Subaru and pointing out that you have been robbed. Fraud it theft. It is not a cute little game. It is not "salesmanship", it is theft, pure and simple.

krzycho · January 2002

I've had CEL on my Forester 2001S for the third time in 6 months. Last two times it was an air valve problem. This time mechanic pulled code showing fuel injectors shorted and an air injector shorted - whatever that means. All five were replaced by Staten Island Subaru dealership and so far so good. That's FYI if you'll run into similar problem. Chris.

paisan · January 2002

You on SI? Bat1161 and I are also on the Island. The service department SUCKS in SI. That is probably why you've had to go back there 3 times! Anyway glad to hear they fixed it. You should come down to the pine barrens with us for a trailride. Also there are subaru meets in woodbridge a lot. Check out some events at http://isuzu-suvs.com/events

-mike

ateixeira · January 2002

Nice analysis, D. If you're right about the wheelbase being only slightly longer, I bet it'll continue to have 0.5" longer than the Impreza. 3" longer overall will hopefully mean more interior space.

I noticed a couple of things, too. When you click the link and get the preview shot with the grid, you'll notice the cladding behind the rear wheels resembles the stuff on the Baja.

Also, the kink in the D-pillar appears there. The rear side window looks like the Lexus GX470's. Nice touch.

Finally, on the Tuesday shot, it looks like the built-in roof rails aren't there, or at least are shorter to they do not appear in that photo.

-juice

simon_dedalus · January 2002

I finally was able to contact my salesperson on the phone again yesterday.

I told him I either expected a CD player installed in my Forester or $300 in cash (Edmunds TMV + the tax I will be paying). That's probably letting them off easy as another dealership gave me an estimate of $385.90 (parts and labor) for the installation of the same CD player, but I figure that is the amount of factory installed components I had actually expected/paid for.

He said he'd speak with his manager (who may or may not have been away at a funeral--I have trouble believing anything he says to me now) and get back to me.

I told him if I didn't hear back from him by 5 pm today that I would start working through other channels. I told him my offer was non-negotiable. If it is not met, I'll start working with SOA, the better business bureau, and whatever other organizations it takes.

I really do appreaciate the advice, and I'll let everyone know how the situation is resolved.

Otherwise, we love our Forester, and we are delighted to report that St. Louis has several other Subaru dealerships that we will be pleased to do business with in the future.

--Paul

paisan · January 2002

"whatever other organizations it takes" we can offer some services for you if the usual channels don't work! hee hee. I hear fuel lines run close to catalytic converters at dealers who screw their customers! heee heee heee!

-mike

ateixeira · January 2002

If his response is anything but positive, call the Subaru 800 number and open up a case file. We'll put you in touch with Patti, and you'll likely get the CD and a loaner for your troubles.

-juice

jfg4 · January 2002

I am pushing my husband to purchase a Forester rather than the Jeep Liberty or Ford Escape. He likes the SF a lot, but in the end he is turned off by the styling and because he feels it is targeted more toward women. I thought he was way off base until I saw the following numbers on the % of female ownership (from the Daniel Heraud section on the Carpoint site - in each review he lists buyer demographics):

Pathfinder 24%
Explorer 29%
Liberty 33%
Xterra 37%
Highlander 38%
Escape 45%
CRV 50%
RAV4 59%
Forester 62%

In fact, after looking at other Heraud reviews, I couldn't find any other vehicle that skewed more toward women than the Forester. I find it hard to believe that the Forester is the most female-oriented vehicle on the road.

Any comments on whether these numbers are reliable? I mean, is the SF really the ultimate "woman's car" on the market today? Do these numbers jibe with what people are seeing out there?

rsholland · January 2002

by the Forester being so skewed towards women. Subaru has made a very conscious effort to market that vehicle towards women. Our Forester is my wife's, but I drive it every chance I get. In addition, there have also been a number of articles written stating that Subaru is also actively courting the gay and lesbian market (not that there's anything wrong with that...) with this vehicle. It just screams diversity...

Bob

paisan · January 2002

I mean if your husband is *that* worried about his image, he should be getting a lexus or something.

Is he gonna be out picking up babes with it?

A good friend has a liberty (actually his wife) and I drove it, the transmission intruded too far into the driver and passenger footwells for my liking and I found the forester to be more roomy in the front. Not as roomy as my Trooper, but roomier than the liberty.

-mike

simon_dedalus · January 2002

They offered me the part, but said that I would have to pay the labor ($79--which seems high).

I considered taking it, but since they ignored me for so long (in hopes that I'd just go away?) before trying to get me to pay for their "mistake" (or worse), I decided to call Subaru's 1-800#.

We'll see what action that brings . . .

Thanks again.

--Paul

paisan · January 2002

Get a case # from subaru. There is no way they should make you pay for the install. Once you get the case # post it up here so patti who works @ subaru can look into it and make sure they do it for you and do it right.

-mike

armac13 · January 2002

My only response is that the Forester appeals to people who want a very reliable, good-handling, capable car and who are not particularly concerned about image. Speaking as a male, I am not so insecure in my masculinity that I worry people question in due to the car I drive. Driving a Pathfinder would certainly not make me more of a man and if someone were to think it did, I would pity such an immature fool.

Ross

simon_dedalus · January 2002

They offered me the part, but said that I would have to pay the labor ($79--which seems high).

I considered taking it, but since they ignored me for so long (in hopes that I'd just go away?) before trying to get me to pay for their "mistake" (or worse), I decided to call Subaru's 1-800#.

We'll see what action that brings . . .

Thanks again.

--Paul

kens · January 2002

Yes, I've also read that the Forester does appeal to women as well. My random sampling from driving around also confirms this claim. However, I have also noticed that the Forester draws a broad customer base -- young, old, men, women, etc.

It's not by coinicidence that the vehicles towards the bottom of the list have more women owners. They're the more recent car-based hybrid SUVs that offer a lot more everyday practicality than the traditional truck-frame based vehicles towards the top. Truck-frame based SUVs tend to ride harsher, have worse handling and are not as space efficient as their unibody counterparts. However, they do have a "macho" image associated with them partly due to advertising. Clearly, this factor affects the purchase criteria differently between the genders.

Ken

paisan · January 2002

often times the smaller vehicle may be registered in the woman's name. How do they classify ones that are owned by married couples, or titles with 2 names on them?

-mike

leomort · January 2002

my memory is foggy, but if I remember correctly, not only I'm of the wrong gender, but also of the wrong age and income for the Forester.

Leo

P.S. I also read somewhere that VW are also extremely popular with women.

odd1 · January 2002

Just, show him the reliability, recall, and safety records of Escape, Liberty, and Forester. That should do it.

I got over the macho thing when I started putting safety at the top of my priorities with the birth of our daughter. Nothing like driving a mini van or station wagon to show that you are secure in who you are.

Just, wish I'd gotten smarter sooner and didn't have the BMW. I could have owned two Foresters(or maybe one and a WRX wagon-HHHMMMMM) for the same money or less.

joseph50 · January 2002

Not surprised at the report. The typical Forester driver I meet at the pump is a woman on the more seasoned end of the young parent age spectrum, on a serious food shopping mission (i.e., more mature than the young fashion conscious soccer mom driving a very expensive kid carrier.)
Being a guy, I conclude that my S has indeed put me in touch with my feminine side in terms of subjectivity and interpersonalization. Never before have a personalized a machine, but "Toby" it has come to be.

rictom · January 2002

First: oh man what I would have done with that dealer. There are few situations in which right and wrong is so clearly etched, and this is one of them. You have the invoice, you paid for it, it's not there, they need to install it, it's that simple and the second he hesitated I would have laughed and said what a funny guy he is, for a moment there I thought you were serious ha ha; and when he didn't immediately say he'd take care of it, I very calmly would have asked to see the sales manager and not said another word. I would have stopped dealing with that salesman at that moment and not left the dealer until the cd was installed. When they offered to do it except for the install charge, that's when I would have laughed out loud, demanded to see the sales manager then and there and probably would have insisted that if they didn't want lawsuits, publicity etc. they would now install the 6 cd changer for the price of the single one, thank you.

Women and Foresters. Hmm. I like it, my wife likes it--more than the CRV..and her sister has a Forester also.
As for hubby; sure no one is really going to buy a car they consider ugly, but you wouldn't be looking at the Forester if you thought it was that unappealing. My wife will be driving the Forester more so it was her call. I might have chosen the CRV.

ateixeira · January 2002

So, women are attracted to the Forester. Is that a bad thing for a guy? Well, maybe in his wife's opinion! ;-)

Seriously, women are more practical, smarter consumers. Many guys buy into the whole testosterone thing, that trucks should be punishing and uncomfortable, brutal and guzzle gas. If that's what he wants, then, frankly, he deserves what he gets.

The Forester is user friendly. Controls are light, and do not require big biceps to operate. Lift overs are low. Cowl is low for visibility, and blind spots are small. It's fuel efficient, and safety was a priority in its design. Those are not bad traits!

Auto Pacific has some stats, and they say:

Forester: 55% female
CR-V: 59% female
RAV4: 62% female

So the variation could well be the registration issue mentioned above. But generally practical buyers flock to car-based SUVs because they know they don't really need off-road capability.

If your hubby disagrees, he's probably just pretending. How often has he really and truly driven off road?

-juice

c_hunter · January 2002

If it's on the contract, then they owe you the CD player "installed". If you had negotiated "parts only" then it would have to say so specifically on the contract. In cases where parts are missing or on backorder at the time of delivery, the dealer should give you a signed "we owe" contract that lists everything missing. This is something you should not leave the dealership without. You never know what kind of baloney they will pull after you drive off the lot.

You already paid for the CD plater, and it's down on paper. Definitely talk to the head honcho and rip him a new one.

Craig

3subfam1 · January 2002

Four years ago, I offered my wife the choice of a Forester or an Outback wagon. She had been driving a Jeep Cherokee (PT 4WD) up here in snow country (Syracuse/Tug Hill).

She definitely preferred the Forester(S), and she wants to stay with the model. This is even after she drove her parents' new LL Bean H6 Outback wagon.

On the other hand, I love my 2000 Legacy 2.5GT sedan (in Rio Red).

We like having a wagon-like vehicle for carrying stuff. Overall, I like the handling of the sedan. My wife likes the higher view of the Forester without having to step up into a truck-like vehicle.

kate5000 · January 2002

those statistics are far from precise because they base it on who has the title on the vehicle, and in case of joint title, whose name is first. So my Forester is counted as male-owned, because my husband's name is first on a title.

masan · January 2002

Why would a dealer risk losing business and deliberately alienate a new owner over $300? And what's more absurd, why risk the reputation of the dealership over a $79 installation fee? Maybe I'll just put another 100,000 on my present vehicle and avoid the dealerships for a few more years.

upstateny2 · January 2002

I live on a street with 30 houses and 3 Foresters parked in driveways
2 women (Mother & college daughter)
1 male (our parish priest)
So this little sample is 67% female
My wife and I were all set to purchase a Forester back in Dec97, until we drove it. Given the lack of legroom, we purchased a 97CRV
Looking forward to seeing the 2003 Forester & hope they added some leg room.

rsunico · January 2002

# Foresters in my office parking lot: 7 (and counting). # owned by men: 5. Thats 71% male. I know this is not scientific but hey, it must be that sweet Jersey water! As for the CD Player debacle: I bought mine on ebay (Subaru 6 CD) for $150 (new). Talked to Service Mgr at Liberty Subaru (NJ) -- he was not sure if the the CD player was compatible w/ my radio and took my phone number. He called the next day to say yes and they charged me $60 for install. Such service!

adanne · January 2002

Thanks for the link.

ateixeira · January 2002

Have you called the 800 number and opened up a case? If so we'll put you in touch with Patti. These guys need to learn a lesson. Also, I forget if you've mentioned the dealership name, but if you haven't please do. They don't deserve to be in business.

2 women and a priest walk into a bar...sounds like the beginning of a good joke! :-)

FWIW, I do think most Forester owners are female, at least from what I've seen. There are more male Outback owners, again from my experience. But the Outback is more wagon-ish, so go figure.

At this point, anyone shopping for a new Forester ought to wait at least a week until they can preview the 2003. It's 6 days away.

-juice

Karen_S · January 2002

Don't forget tonight's chat!

KarenS
Host
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Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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