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Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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Comments

  • odd1odd1 Member Posts: 227
    If you want to be anal about the MPV go to the IIHS site and look at its offset crash rating... :^(

    I dropped it from consideration after seeing those crash results.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    MPV went from Marginal to Average with the newer model. Not quite up to Subaru's standards, but not terrible either.

    -juice
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Actually, it's "acceptable" (not average, acceptable is well above-average based on the best selling vans), which I take to mean just that.

    If you look at the detailed numbers, the biggest issue is the footwell intrusion, which is higher than the best performers, and resulted in the grade of "acceptable" on the structural rating instead of "good" (= highest). The head acceleration measures were a little high, but IIHS didn't slam them for it.

    It's clear that nothing can touch the Sienna, a 5 year old design. Not even the latest Honda. Too bad the Sienna is so roundly disparaged by the auto press as being dated. I really don't like the Sienna's ride and handling - which is a deal killer for me, given that these results were still pretty positive.

    These results give me pause, but they're not a deal killer. The gov't tests are quite good (different tests of course). Overall a pretty safe van, significantly better than any of the top sellers by units (DC, Ford).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sienna is smallish and doesn't have a folding 3rd seat. It's hard to compete without either of those.

    -juice
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Looks like the Windstar beats the MPV by a nose overall. Too bad it has such a terrible rep on reliability... (too big for my needs anyway)
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Sizewise I could live the Sienna, in fact, I was set to buy one until I drove it. I mean, I Really don't like its ride... just not my style.
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    paisan Mar 6, 2002 11:17am


    Depending on what MY2003 brings. If I do decide to keep Al'Gator, I might add these


    http://makeashorterlink.com/?E2AE12F7


    or


    http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1CE45F7


    and move the DE Xenon on the '98 OB to the '99 OBS


    -Dave

  • gened1gened1 Member Posts: 256
    The april issue of car & driver has a lot of info on the 2003 Forester in the front of the mag pg 34. It also states the turbo is scheduled for the USA in 2004
    Gene
  • ninianninian Member Posts: 16
    Sienna smallish? It's about the middle of the pack - smaller than the Grand Caravan or Odyssey, larger than regular Caravan, Quest, or MPV. As for the folding rear seat, it depends on what your needs are. Sienna has a split third seat which I much prefer. You can selectively tumble or remove either half. Gives a lot more flexibility in how you can use rear area and is a lot easier for a smaller person to manipulate. Was a major factor for us in selecting Sienna over Odyssey or Grand Caravan. Still prefer driving my Forester, but if you need a van...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Woo-hoo! Forester is the most reliable small SUV now. It passed the RAV4 by a wide margin, and is now the only small SUV rated better than average.

    The new CR-V is not rated yet, but newer Hondas have not matched their predecessors (Civic, Odyssey) in reliability.

    All Subies are better than average in reliability, and all earned the Recommended rating. They are all recommended as used models, and there aren't any on the used cars to avoid list. That's solid consistency.

    I realize that's an average, and some of us of course will have had some issues, but this means the odds are in your favor with the Forester. Even if you had bad luck with yours, pick any other cute ute and it would likely have been worse!

    Let's all give our Foresters a nice bath this weekend. :-)

    On the vans - the Ody and MPV are set up best for 2 kid families. With 3 you can't fold the seat, so you give up cargo space. That's fine for me because we don't plan on having more than two, but other may prefer a different interior layout.

    For the vans, reliability went Sienna, MPV, then Odyssey, then the also-rans.

    -juice
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hey juice - I assume you are refering to CR? (let me guess, subscribers got their April "auto" issue this week?).

    Good news for Subaru!

    Steve
    Host
    SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oops, forgot my source! Yep, Consumer Reports.

    -juice
  • tlunzutlunzu Member Posts: 5
    Hello from Spain.

    Does anybody know if there are any aftermarket Xenon headlamps for Foresters?

    Any hints about Subaru installing them as standard for '03 models?

    I am satisfied with normal headlamps, but would not hesitate in upgrading to Xenon if available.

    Tomas
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Tomas-


    Got to http://www.hella.com


    They have a wide variety.


    -Dave

  • petercam15petercam15 Member Posts: 2
    I have a 1998 Forester S (love it), and will be trading it in this spring. After extensive looking at other options, I will be getting another Forester (1 child, mainly concerned with staying on the road, occasionally driving on the beach to fish, don't need a truck). The question -- should I wait for the 2003? Will there be a significant price difference/savings if I get a 2002? I was looking at the S Premium Package, and I realize that the 2002 S has several improvements over the 1998 (more torque, limited slip).

    I apologize if any of these items have previously been discussed. I did review the Boards and found numerous helpful comments but no real consensus. And you all know a lot more than I do. Thanks for the help.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    From everything I've read to date, it sounds like the new Forester is more "refined" than the current model. It's supposed to be a lot quieter, and the interior is reportedly much nicer. It's certainly better looking IMO.

    Bob
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    I too would wait for the new model. If the improvement in structural rigidity is the same as for the Impreza, that in itself would me enough for me (not that I think it's a problem in my 2001). Tweaks have also given it more interiour room with no added length.

    Ross
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I'd wait for the 2003 also for the following reasons:

    - Updated styling inside and out
    - More rigid chassis
    - Slight increase in rear legroom
    - Improved handling: quicker steering and higher roll center
    - Less brake dive and squat
    - Improved saftey features (side impact airbags)

    You may be able to get a slightly better deal on a 2002, but in my area (Bay Area, CA) Subaru dealers usually sell new models for 3-4% over invoice so the price difference isn't that great, IMO.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I would wait. I doubt the 2003's price will go up much, and the 2002 doesn't have any rebates, and likely won't. So you'll make up the price difference at resale time.

    Unless you much prefer the 2002, or need it right away, I'd wait.

    The new one is also 90 pounds lighter. Throw in the extra inch of leg room for your kid, and the choice is easy.

    -juice
  • petercam15petercam15 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for the quick responses! I would prefer to wait, but for various reasons want to purchase this spring. I asked one of my local dealers when the 2003's would be in, and he responded (via e-mail) "late August or September," and that he had "heard talk of a turbo option." From the various press releases I thought that the 2003's would be in by May.

    Pete
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dealer is likely wrong, all indications are for a May launch.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Late August and September are normally when the new models get to the dealers. However, in the case of the 2003 Forester, it was a mid-year launch so they'll be at dealers in May, like juice wrote.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    either that dealer doesn't know what he's talking about, or he just wants to unload his current 2002 inventory. Everything I've seen said mid-late May.

    Bob
  • andil1andil1 Member Posts: 97
    Even if the new 2003's arrive on the lot, you may not be able to buy them until the 2002's are all gone. I visited the dealer in my area the first week of August in 1999; the 2000's were in the back lot, but there were still 3-1999 models to sell. They would not let me even look at the 2000's! The salesman said he would call me when the 2000's were available--he didn't call me until the end of September! By that time, I'd bought another car.
  • canadianclcanadiancl Member Posts: 1,078
    Likely both.
  • jim1969jim1969 Member Posts: 62
    Is the tweeter package worth getting? What about the upgraded speaker package? How much power and what sound impovement is there? Any help?
  • sierratripsierratrip Member Posts: 53
    Jim,

    I would recommend getting the up grade.

    I got the factory tweeter kit, speaker upgrade, sub-woofer/amplifier and the difference from the model I test drove without those was dramatic!

    Whether you choose to do the work yourself our at an after market shop or go with factory is up to you, but I would definitely do it.

    The one thing you might consider is that if the dealer/factory has any problems with the install or you experience any problems down-the-line, you're covered. As I've seen posted here, if
    someone screws up your electrical or you have problems with the electrical at a later date, some dealers won't do repairs until the after market stuff is removed and the system returned to original.

    Good luck!

    -Donn
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Upgrading your stock speaker will get the most bang for your buck from your audio system.

    The stock speakers are cheap paper units with whizzer cones. The upgrades not only add the tweeters and subwoofer, but the speakers themselves are of higher quality material. Since high frequency sounds are directional, the tweeters mounted at the top of the door will give you the perception of a wider stereo sound.

    If you like taking things on by yourself, you can get even better quality by going aftermarket. The door speakers are of standard size so you can simply swap them out with an aftermarket brand of the same size with no modifcations.

    Here's what I recommend:

    - Get the tweeters from the dealer and install them yourself. The doors are pre-wired for them and the installation is simple.
    - Buy front and rear speakers (get at least two-ways) from any reputable audio shop. Crutchfield is a good start.
    - Buy the subwoofer from the dealer or get the equivalent model (I believe it's a Clarion) aftermarket. I'm not sure about the installation but I believe it's prewired as well.

    Ken
  • jim1969jim1969 Member Posts: 62
    Thanks for the speaker info. I did the Crutchfield thing once and it turned out well. I'll price out the dealer costs first.
  • sumitranasumitrana Member Posts: 4
    Just got a used 99 Forester and have lost the manual already! What octane rating gas should I put?

    thanks in advance,
    S
  • scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    sumitrana-- I use 87 in my 2002 which is recommended in the owner's manual. I had some pinging in the first 500 miles but since then, I've noticed no pinging at all. I'm not a Subaru expert as some who participate on this board but I believe that all Subaru H4 engines require only 87. I guess some H4 Legacy Outbacks have had pinging problems but so far with my Forester, I haven't had to use premium fuel to avoid pinging.

    --'rocco
  • rashorangerashorange Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2001 Forester with about 22k miles on it. Sometime back I recieved a notice about some factory recall, I was supposed to get something fixed at the dealer, I don't know what the recall was about, or, if it is related to the problems I am currently experiencing.
    On low speeds, stop and go travel, the engine temperature indicator on the dashboard veers dangerously close to the 'red' zone. However once the speed rises to about 30+, the needle comes back to the center. Today when I was going up a steep incline in San Francisco, the needle even shot past the red zone!. Does anyone know why this is happenning?
    Also, I think the recommended tire pressures (27f/28r) is too low, I get comfortable handling at (32f/33r)-any comments?
    This being my first Subaru and AWD, I am surprised to experience some problems so early in the vehicle's life.
    Thanks
  • entropy5527entropy5527 Member Posts: 24
    Does anyone know how to remove the cover on the rear gate. I have to replace the wiring harness, and am wondering how involved that would be....
  • ffsteveffsteve Member Posts: 243
    Check your coolant level today, and take it to the shop as soon as you can. Your engine is overheating due to reduced cooling capacity - low coolant, blocked radiator, bad water pump etc.

    It manages on the flat at high speeds because of the cooling as the car pushes the radiator through the air, but as soon as you ask the engine to do more, or reduce the air flow by slowing down, it can't keep up and your water temperature goes up. Temps into the red zone are not good.

    This is not a Subaru problem, or anything to do with AWD, simply a cooling problem.

    Get it looked at, and good luck!

    Steve
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    sumitrana -- The recommended octane is 87. Start with that grade and move up if you get any knocking. Some light pinging isn't something to become alarmed about.

    rashorange -- Follow Steve's advice and check the coolant level ASAP. Could be that it's just low. As for tire pressures, the general consensus is that the recommended pressures are too low. Many of us have gravitated to around 32psi for everyday driving.

    Ken
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    rashorange- Definitely get your Forester into a dealer ASAP before you cause any damage to the engine. My first thought was that the radiator fans aren't working but it could be a number of things. Re tire pressure, manufacturers usually err on the low side because it provides a smoother ride. However, higher pressure provides better mileage and tread wear. As Ken said, you should be fine at 32psi.

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Andi: shame on that dealer, I would have walked, too.

    I did the swap to the premium speakers. You basically go from 10/15 watt front/rear to 20/30, something like that. But they also swap out cheap cones for true two-ways. They do sound better. Now if I could only talk my toddler out of her choice in music...

    rashorange: check if the fans are stuck. Do they spin when you are idling? When the engine is off, do they spin freely?

    Once you figure this out, I would definitely have the coolant flushed completely, and change the oil. At those high temps the oil breaks down. In fact I would not drive it until you solve the problem.

    -juice
  • burnsmr4burnsmr4 Member Posts: 318
    Hey, folks,

    I just bought a new 2002 Subaru Forester S with the following options:

    - upgraded speakers
    - tweeter kit
    - subwoofer

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I just read above that the tweeters are directional and installed in the upper part of the door (A-pillar???). What the hell?! I don't have ANY tweeters mounted on the upper part of the door. Only speakers I see up front are the big ones in the doors and little ones just above the door handles.

    Please, for the love of St. Peter, tell me that THOSE are the tweeters.

    Thanks,
    burnsmr4
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    The tweeters are the ones on the door just above the door handle.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    burnsmr4- Dang, a little high strung today aren't we? :-)

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Where are MY tweeters? I know they weren't on my sticker but I want some anyway! ;-)

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Dude, you really want to hear Elmo's higher frequencies? ;-)

    Ken
  • jdwagsjdwags Member Posts: 3
    My wife and I are seriously thinking of jumping off the Honda ship and purchasing a new Forester after trying out most of the small SUVs and concluding the Forester was the best vehicle by our standards.

    I have two basic questions I'm hoping some of you seasoned Subaru owners can answer for me.

    First, is the Subaru AWD system's reliability as good as the systems offered by Honda (CRV) and Toyota (RAV4). Or stated another way, the fact that the systems operate differently from one another, will one system wear out before the other?

    Second, concerning the boxer engine. The information I read and hear about the boxer engine makes alot of sense to me namely how the engine is so well balanced, compact, can be positioned further back in the chasis and so on. If in fact this is such a good way to build an engine, which I believe it is, why haven't the other manufacturers, namely Honda and Toyota, built a boxer engine themselves?

    Would appreciate some feedback on these two questions as I usually drive my vehicles a long, long time so long term reliability is of major concern to me. Out here in Washington's Olympic Peninsula, Subarus are as common as any brand and I am impressed at how many real old Subarus are still running around.

    -wags
  • jeijei Member Posts: 143
    I have a '99 Forester "S" automatic, which has been very reliable as of 92,000 (mostly highway) miles. My previous car was an '85 Toyota Tercel 4WD wagon, replaced at 280,000 miles.

    We also have '92 Legacy wagon with 206,000 miles, which is still running OK but has begun to feel tired lately. Its AWD system is "tight" now; the electromagnetic clutches at the center differential don't fully release each axle. Some bindup is noticeable at low speed turns on dry pavement. Replacement or rebuild of the clutch pack is in the $1,000 range. The 2.2 liter engine uses and leaks some oil, but runs well otherwise. This car has had more short trips and also multiple drivers, including 2 teenagers learning how to drive. Not sure we want to put a lot of money into this car.

    I don't know the AWD reliability/durability experience with the CRV or RAV4, but suspect the Toyota would be the more durable of the two. I have utmost respect for Toyota's build quality as probably the best worldwide. I just don't feel their product packaging & marketing strategy provides the best value in the small/midsize sport utility/wagon market these days. I bought the Forester instead of the RAV4 because the Subaru is more solid, carlike and fun to drive. I would do the same thing again today. IF I were in the $27,000 - $30,000 market today (fantasy only...), the Toyota Highlander would compete seriously against the 6 cylinder Outback for my dollar, even though it would have less equipment for the buck.

    My bottom line: The Subaru Forester provides a much better designed package at a better price for the combination of charachter, features & equipment - even if over its long life with me I may spend a thousand or two more for rebuilds & repairs vs. a comparable Toyota.

    Boxer engine? Good question. Subaru is a relatively small car company. Fuji Heavy Industries probably decided to put its eggs in this particular less conventional basket. They have good company: Porche. There has been some cross pollination with Porche / Audi over the years, I believe. Subaru's other (conventional) automotive engines are all small 3- and 4 cylinders. I wonder what Subaru would do if they went to making larger vehicles, if they would keep the boxer design for say a 5 liter 8 cylinder engine. I don't know what the engineering limits on the boxer are. I don't think FHI has the resources to develop a radically different larger engine on their own, the way VW has. FHI's collaboration with GM may change this, though.

    Last thought: The redesigned 2003 Forester is expected at dealers in the spring and is from all accounts even more refined. No doubt worth the wait. (I'll be checking it out at the NYC Auto Show at the end of the month. Still plan to keep my '99 to 250,000 miles though.) Good luck, and keep us posted.

    John
  • asplundhasplundh Member Posts: 27
    I have a 2002 Forester L. From day 1 I have complained to the dealer about the alignment. I've gotten nothing but the run around. They blame everything from tire inflation to rotation of the tires. Meanwhile the lousy Duelers that are on the vehicle are almost completely worn out on the outer threads with only 7400 miles. Most people in here praise Subaru but so far I am very unhappy. I've gone back 3 times on this problem and have gotten nowhere.
  • storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    Wags: If you read enough posts here you'll see that Subie fans have a lot of respect for Honda and regard the CR-V as the best competitor, so you and your wife are on the right track.

    Many people think Honda and Toyota are slipping just a little from their position as the gold standard for quality. I think that probably has more to do with competitive pressures than with the location of their plants.

    Do check out the 2003 Forester. I'll see my first one at the local car show in three days. On paper, it is a much nicer car that will apparently sell for virtually the same price. But you won't get the deals on the 2003 that you will on a 2002 Forester.

    Oddly enough, a reason to buy the Forester is this set of discussion boards on Edmunds. Subie owners are simply the most friendly, helpful and fun people to hang with, even if you are only hanging with them in cyberspace. And Subaru has a secret weapon in their competition with Honda. Her name is Patti, and she is the fairy godmother at Subaru who reads all these posts and occasionally waves a magic wand to help some poor soul whose dealership isn't doing the right thing by some Subie in trouble. Honda doesn't have Patti. Toyota doesn't have Patti. Just the Subaru Crew.

    Good luck. You seem to be doing this the right way.
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    You brightened up my morning!

    Patti
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I spoke to Dave at your dealership this morning. He hasn't seen your car in awhile and he'd be happy to take a look at it to see if there is something that they can do. When you get a chance, give him a call. He seemed very sincere about wanting to help you.

    Thanks,

    Patti
  • burnsmr4burnsmr4 Member Posts: 318
    Heh,

    Sorry for the TWEETER outburst, folks. I am a little high strung this week. Getting married on Saturday. {:-O

    You see, my new Forester (just turned 2000 today) is up for his first series of long road trips during the wedding and honeymoon. I was so excited about getting a bigger car to carry all our crap to and from my fiancée's hometown and our honeymoon destination. It was going to be so cool!

    Then, she told me that the back seat is for her wedding gown only. Doh! $100 later, and I have a MacNeil Automotive WeatherTech cargo carrier to install tomorrow. Most likely in the rain. Then, her parents told us that someone delivered a big wedding gift to haul back after the big day -- a piece of furniture (???). It just barely fits in a Ford Explorer. Double doh!

    You see where I'm goin' here? The utility of my Forester is suddenly at the mercy of wedding gowns and gifts. So, again, please pardon the TWEETER episode. And bring me a drink. Several of them. And a Valium. Several of them. ;-)

    Later,
    burnsmr4
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 Member Posts: 1,089
    I wish you and your future wife all the best and a bright future
    Serge

    P.S. get her her own Subie!
This discussion has been closed.