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*MSRP 32,250
*Residual 15,480 or 48%
*15k miles per year
*Months 39
*Negociated price of the car (I am taking this from my papers) $29,647.02 then they applied 3,400 of incentives (gang, I have no freaking clue what incentives they gave me and I did not even ask). So I guess the new cap cost came to $26,247.02
*They rolled all fees into the lease pmt as follow (Title and reg 282; Lease aquis fee 595; Doc Fee 399; Tire tax 8).
*Since I had a freaking negative item in my credit I did not get their tier 1. had I gotten the tier 1, I had negociated my monthly pmts at $310!!!!!!! again, NOTHING DOWN, NO FEES DUE AT INCEPTION, NADA, ZINCH, NIET,
So if you take into consideration that they rolled over the fees (total $1,283) that is like an incentive (sort of speak) as I would had to shell out that $. Again, at the end ,I could care less how they manage to get me in this baby for $349 without me taking out my credit card or check book. I am a very happy camper.
And if this can help anyone, this is how I operate. I always buy my cars in Dec. I start looking first week and then demand quotes second week and then close deal usually the 3rd of 4th week of Dec. I never go at night time, I go during the day and always start with internet inquiries and press at least 3 dealers. I usually go on what I call "slow days" like Tuesdays or Wednesdays (I know, I am kind of weird that way:>). I am one of the only 5% in these forums that never put $ down on leases (always zero cash cap cost reductions, hey carman proud of me??? I do listen to you! But as a disclaimer, I do have a beat up commuter car so that give me some leverage as I can wait to get the deal I want and how I want it. I have a new name for this type of car ECONOLUX...I mean, its pretty economic and has so many features that only luxury cars will come with (at a very hefty price tag).
Signing off, A very happy KiA OPTIMA HYBRID owner. Merry xmas everyone and happy hunting.
p.s. The Dealer was Freehold KIA in Freehold NJ. I will be posting future postings in the "KIA OPTIMA DRIVING EXPERIENCES" as I would like to share how the car is holding up.
How do you like driving a kia hybrid? I think it's great overall, if not for a slow paced acceleration. It kinda transferred me from an aggressive driver to a old fart overnight.
Now that I have almost 1000 miles on it, I swear it is handling at least as good as the A4 it replaced with more power, more amenities, more room and $14,000 less. The only thing it misses is quattro.
Well done! Merry xmas!
I am in PA, now working with a NJ KIA dealer after not getting anywhere close to Edmunds forum deals on a Sonata (can't believe I am doing KIA, after my '06 Sedona experience I said never again, but the reviews, numbers and test drive have me taking one more chance :surprise: ). I am trying to use your numbers as a bargaining tool but have to get a little more precise.
Based on what you've provided, I backed into your $349 pmt on leaseguide.com using the following scenario:
MSRP: 32,250
Base Cap Cost (Negotiated Price): 29,647
Costs Added To Lease (T&R, acq, doc, tire): +1,284
Cap Cost Reductions (Incentives): -3,400
Adjusted Cap Cost: 27,531
Residual (48%): 15,480
Money Factor: 0.00093
Sales Tax %: 0
Term (months): 39
Monthly payment: 349.00
I know, in reality, there is sales tax in this deal somewhere. But, based on "costs rolled in", "incentives" and "negotiated price", the only way I could see getting to that price was by zeroing out the sales tax and playing with the MF (which, in this scenario would be 2.23% interest) until it gave me a $349 monthly. Also, the only way I can get to your "new cap cost" of 26,247 is to subtract the "costs rolled in" from the adjusted cap cost calculated by leaseguide.
Please do not take this as criticism. In effect, it may be that they gave you even more than you thought. It appears they gave you another $349 the first month and covered your sales tax too! So, I look further into the details so I can speak confidently about what you got in the hope of duplicating your success.
Two questions, if I may? Since you have your documents, could you share: 1. MF
2. Sales tax %
Thank you in advance and, again, congrats on your deal! Merry Christmans to all!
*Your monthly payment is determined as shown below:
A)GROSS CAP COST $31,958.84
B)CAP COST RED $3,400
C)ADJUSTED CAP COST $28,558.84 (A-B)
D)RESIDUAL VALUE $15,480
E)DEPRECIATION AND ANY AMORT AMOUNTS $13,078.84
F)RENT CHARGE $532.16
G)TOTAL OF BASE MONTHLY PMT $13,611 (E+F)
H)LEASE PMTS 39 MONTHS
I)BASE MONTHLY PAYMENT $349 (G divided by H)
J)MONTHLY SALES/USE TAX N/A
K)TOTAL MONTHLY PMT $349
In another part of the lease doc it indicates:
*Amount Due a Lease Signing or Delivery:
Cap Cost Reduction $3,400
First Monthly pmt $349.00
Refundable sec dep N/A
Refundable Reconditioning reserve N/A
Title Fees N/A
Registration Fees N/A
Trade Tittle Fee N/A
UPFRONT Taxes $98.19
Total $3,847.19
*Itemization of Gross Cap cost
-Agreed upon value of the vehicle $29,647.02
*Other amts included in the gross cap cost:
A)Taxes $1,028.62
B)Title and Registration fees $281.70
C)Lease acquisition fee $595.00
D)Document fee $399.00
E)Prior credit or lease balance on trade-in-vehicle N/A
F)Tire tax $7.50
Total Gross Cap cost $31,958.84
So, I still after having leased 4 vehicles in the past could not understand certain things in this lease doc, but at the end, after all my research, I was zeroing in a price target around what I got it for. I hope this will help you somewhat in your negociations. Let me know. And remember, as I had stated in my prior post, I did not pay any $ out of my pockets and they waved the first payment, so whatever fees/taxes etc I had asked them to included in my lease calculations.
Quick note, went to two xmas party yesterday, had many people drive with me, the freaking could not believe all the things this car came with. They kept saying "A KIA" "Are you kidding me" "And you paying how much??" I am bringing my neighboor to check the SX next week, he really liked the car and the price.
Good luck, the car is awesome, I love it, don't drive it in ECO mode when you test drive it, put that only on the highway.
Enjoy your new ride!
I'm not going to play that game, I can see the new US production is filling the lots with loaded up turbos and eventually they'll start producing models without the packs, I'm patient, I can wait.
Just curious if everyone runs into this, low ball prices posted on ZAG with discounts and rebates nobody qualifies for and then you go to the dealer and face thousands of dollars of add on packages many don't want.
Eventually, drove down to the dealer with the lowest Zag pricing (approximately 25 miles from my house). The dealer also did not have my requirements in stock. However, the dealer was able to locate the car, stuck to the Zag pricing and charged me an additional locator fee. Even with the additional locator fee, the Zag pricing for this dealer still beat out their closest local competition via my Zag research (Did not want to drive to Brooklyn or Queens to buy a car). I ended up paying $2,400 below invoice (this includes the locator fee, as well as, the $1,000 competitive incentive).
Note that I was very specific with the Sales Person that I would not accept any dealer installed accessories (i.e. appearance) and/or services (i.e. dealer prep., window etching, additional warranty).
I was surprised based upon messages from Nov on this board when a dealer quoted me a residual of 52% for an EX 39/mo 12k miles/yr lease.
Based upon what I read, it was 57% back in Nov for a 15k lease, which indicates that the 12k lease was 58%.
Can anybody confirm what the dealer said? It seems like a large drop.
Thanks! Joel
Hope that helps
Is it possible to get a lease for the Optima EX with premium package with 20,000 mile allowance? I'd love to know the lease numbers on that if possible. Thanks!
So if I buy 5,000 miles per year at 15 cents per mile, I'd be adding $2,250 to the price. How does this affect my lease numbers? What MF and residual would I use?
Here is one deal I have been offered:
EX with Premium Package and a few add-ons (wheel locks, cargo net and rear bumper film)
MSRP: $26668
Selling Price: $24850
Additional Mileage: $1950
Lease Incentive: deduct $1,000
MF: .00095
Residual: 55%
NC Tax: 3%
Doc Fee: $585.50
Tag Fee: $89
Lease Fee: $595
Monthly Lease: $368
What do you guys think? I'm hoping to get them down a little more to get my payment down to $350ish.
For instance, in September my wife bought a car for $23,300. Add 7.25% IL tax & various fees and with $4K down payment her monthly payment is $328. Compare that to your $24,850 price & $368 payment. I don't really see a lease advantage unless you're putting virtually nothing down.
There are lease threads for every car so questions about the lease would be more appropriate there than in this, the "buy" thread.
If you drive a lot of miles, buying will almost always be better financially than leasing. Doubly so on brands with higher depreciation rates.
Personally, I buy & keep my cars for 8-10 years. I get the full value for my dollars. "Resale value" really becomes a non-issue; condition is more important as a selling price determinant on older cars.
As for the leasing versus buying, I am interested in the lease because we change cars so frequently. I like the idea of a lower payment, no money down and saving the up front tax you have to pay when you buy.
I still haven't been able to strike a deal yet, so I'm still looking. I know the payment is high, but the purchase price of $23,850 seems very good. I add about $2,000 to that to purchase the miles and then the other fees listed above. Using the .00095 MF and 55% residual the payments appear to be correct.
I would love to save more money, so I'm going to keep pressing on. Thanks again for the input!
Just a little over a month ago I went to a local dealer looking for a 2012 EX. However, the dealer had more than a few 2011's still on the lot. So I test drove a 2011 EX turbo with premium package and didn't look back.
Final price before taxes was $22,800. This price did include rebates.
Love the car! And the price was incredible for everything the car gives you. Car is handling nicely in the snow too (Buffalo, NY).
new poster here looking for info from EXPERIENCED ppl on the optima. My wife and I are looking for a new car to BUY, Iv read most pages but it seems like most ppl are leasing the optimas. Is there a certain reason for this? Also, how is the Optimas relaibility records, especially from those who have owned them for a bit on here? Im going to look at one in person and was not sure if it should be a serious though, or what. Right now I am looking at Nissan Altimas, Subaru Legacy and the Kia Optima and am trying to keep the total as close to $20,000 as I can (. I have read all the stuff online, but am looking forward to advice from real ppl who actually own/lease them. Thanks for all the advice ahead of time!
I have also not begun any negotiations for trade. Dealers are all in northern Illinois.
Thanks for any feedback!
I interested in whether the price given me by the lowest priced dealer is reasonable, or if there is more room for negotiation.
The EX you describe has an invoice, according to Edmunds, of $25,195 including destination. Your deal is $3,520 below invoice. Even if you are getting $2,000 in rebates, that still means the dealer is giving you his entire holdback of $650 (3% of EX base invoice) PLUS another $870.
Some possibilities:
1. There is a lot of unknown dealer money out there (which we would hope Edmunds would be aware of).
2. They know you have a trade and are planning to get it back there or, if not, they will change the deal.
3. You are being lied to in order to get you to closing.
If you are basing your expectation on a ZAG or TrueCar price, be careful. I speak from experience, that is the biggest bait-and-switch game out there.
I've seen some deals on this and the Optima lease thread that just didn't add up. Every time I tried to replicate, even at the same dealer where one of those amazing deals was supposedly done, I would come up well short of the target and they were not in any hurry to chase me down when I walked away.
Good luck, and good for you if you get what they are promising. If you do, could you please post ALL the details so we can see what we may be missing?
Thanks.
Haggard
I scatched my head after reading that post and forwarded it to my son who is in the market for one who then went to the dealer. My son called me back asking if I was drunk. The dealers son is in grad school with my son.. Go figure.
Then again, considering the source, that story may be no more true than some of the deals posted :confuse:
$23175- $1500
$23906- $1500
$ 24875- $1500 (don't have the color combo I want, but "they can get it"). Only other $$ they discuss is title/tag work (all 3 quoted the same amt, which I verified w/my state DMV) and doc fees, which average about $165 per dealer, and, of course taxes (sigh).
I've only been dealing via email thus far. Plan to hit the phone tomorrow and visit the two lowest price dealers to see what's what. Will definitely report back. Wish me luck! :-)
Again, wish me luck! Will report back tomorrow!
You were right on quote #1. A callback determined that the $23175 was for a demo (2500 miles) and so the $1500 in incentives would not apply. They offered a new car w/0 miles at essentially the same price. ($24,780-$1500 incentives)
Dealer #2 honored the $23906-$1500 price, or $22406, which was the price quoted in the original email. Rosen Kia of Elgin, IL. The finance manager did his best to talk me into financing (no), all kinds of "exterior protection", such as acid-rain insurance (no, no) and the wheel and tire insurance (no). Modest, earnest discussions, but I wouldn't call it hard pressure. Dealer #1 was convinced that Dealer #2 would tack on destination to the $22,406 price, but I was assured it was already accounted for in their quote and the subject did not come up. They did have a pinstriping package already applied and priced in to the window sticker, but the price I quoted and paid was still $750 lower than dealer #1 after I got a revised quote on a new, not demo model.
Over the 50 mile drive home, the avg MPG readout was 32.6. Already happy if this keeps up. Expecting mileage to improve after a break in period.
Thanks again for everyone's feedback in helping me locate this vehicle.
Dealer number 1: 24,780 - 1,500 = 23,280
Dealer number 2: 23,280 - 750 = 22,530
So, if I haven't missed anything, you paid $22,530 after 1,500 incentives for a brand new 2012 EX with PREMIUM package? That means the dealer sold you the car for 24,030.
Sticker: 27,065
Invoice: 25,195
Your Price: 24,030 (incentives back to dealer)
+ (-) Invoice: (1,165)
Even giving you the holdback of $650, the dealer ate another $515 to get you to take the car?
That is a great deal! Especially for a first timer who sent a few emails and spent one day at dealerships. There must be some serious unpublished incentives to dealers. Congrats!
Car_man or kyfdx, can you help us out here? What are we missing?
Oh, yeah, one last thing: What is your term and interest rate? Or, did you pay cash?
Price Quote Details For Your: 2012 Optima EX
MSRP: $27,545.00 (my note: $450 was the pinstriping as shown below)
Rebate(s): $1,500.00 inc ...1,000.00 Competitive or Kia Loyalty? & 500.00Kia Finance Assistance!
Your Price: $22,406.00
Your Savings: $5,139.00
Equipment/Packages: Double Pinstripe..Door/Whl Pro.. (my note: this turned out to be $450 of pinstiping and door edge guards that I wouldn't have requested, but it was already installed on this particular car...all the Optimas had them at that dealership).
PIO's as viewed ...Premium Package (My note: not sure what PIO means - price includes options? maybe? This car has the Premium pkg w/the pano roof, UVO, upgraded audio, etc., but no nav).
I then called them (twice, in fact) asking if I would have to pay another $750 destination charge on top of all this, and they assured me it was already rolled into the price and the only thing that was missing was title/tags, doc fees, and tax. I did not finance (paid cash) so I was not eligible for the $500 finance assistance BUT they gave me instead a $500 Auto Show bonus that other dealers had mentioned, so the $1500 in rebates still applied.
Even with the price worked out ahead of time, it still was about 4 hours start to finish, with test drive, prepping the car, listening to the finance mgr trying to sell me all kinds of add on stuff, etc.
This all started with me finding a car on their web site that was the color & options combo I wanted and sending in their "email us for a price quote" form. As I said in an earlier post, they actually ended up lower than the dealers zag.com referred me to.
All this done through Rosen Kia in Elgin, Illinois.
Hope this clarifies. Good luck with your shopping!
I found a dealer in Elgin who sold me a '12 Optima EX with the Premium package for $22406 (before tax, title, licence). This was $750 less than the next cheapest price. It did pay to do some homework online before talking to the sales staff. With that car, I found the car on their web site and filled out the little "email me your internet price" form. Had an answer back within a few hours and ended up purchasing from them. Google Kia dealers in northern Illinois and browse their inventory and try doing some price comparison that way. May be worth your time.
Final price: $27500 including tax/title/license (out the door) and 0.9% financing x 3 years.
Breakdown: $27118 + 1639 (MD tax of 6%) + 292 (tags/title fee) = $29250 - $1750 (1k competitive bonus + 750 graduate discount)
MSRP was $30,940 I believe
Purchased at Herson's Kia in Rockville, MD on 02/25/12
Good luck to everyone! Go to the dealer at the end of the month and find a car in inventory...dealers want to sell!
Now I know they are just using every single rebate they have to show the lowest price in the ad. They are going to say not everyone qualifies for the rebates, bringing the price up. I only qualify for the competitor and recent grad rebates but I understand they can not be combined.
How can I get them to sell to me for that price? Go sit down with them and dig my heals in and not budge till they do?
Will they fudge on the loyalty rebate and say they saw a current Kia registration if they did not? Anyone have a copy of a tag receipt I can borrow and fake myself?
Taxes, if I do decide to trade to avoid paying taxes on the trade amount, do they reduce the tax liability by the trade allowance or the actual cash value? Can they show more for the trade to pay less taxes? Does that make any sense?
****edit***I think I answered my own question about taxes. Another site says it is trade allowance not ACV but even so, the trade is worth what it is and at rock bottom on the new car price they would have to raise the selling price to show more for trade not saving my any in taxes beyond the acv anyway. Make sense?***edit***
I just want to look at this thing from all angles to pay as little as possible on each line item, not just on the price of the car. This particular dealer also has the highest "Doc" fee too of $799!!!!! What a rip but they have the cheapest advertised prices.
Not sure what to do here. Wife REALLY wants one but $25k out the door is just too much. I do have $3k to put down but damn, that advertised price looks good!
I am about to pull the trigger on leasing a 2012 KIA Optima EX Turbo with Premium Package. Can you please tell me how my deal looks.
1. Do you think it would be more beneficial for me to go with the SX, I believe the MF is much lower then the EX right now and prices are very similar? (EX .00109 vs SX .00060)
2. Can I negotiate the MF on the EX deal?
3. I know its a pretty damn good deal, but is there something else I can do to get even lower monthly payment?
I want to negotiate down to the bottom bottom. Please help. I am trying to make the decision tomorrow. Here is the deal I got on the EX below.
MSRP: $29,894
SALE PRICE: $27500
COMPETETIVE: -$1000
LEASE CASH: -$1000
FINAL PRICE: $25500
DOWN: $0
MF: .000109
RESIDUAL: 58%
TERM: 36 MONTHS (12K)
Trade: $9800
Owe: $9000
PAYMENT: $280
Do you think there is any other angle I can play to get my payment even lower?
Thank you