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  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747
    Well, the problems in the EU are pretty serious, but that's the way things go. This world moves from crisis to crisis. Otherwise, what news would be worth reporting?

    It wasn't too long ago that Ford stock was junk and worth pennies on the dollar.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    True; good thing that Asia and North America are doing as well as they are.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "The Dearborn automaker, which in 2009 introduced the EcoBoost series — a marriage of turbocharging, direct-injection and twin independent variable-camshaft timing — is in need of additional engines for high-volume vehicles like the Fusion midsize sedan and F-150 pickup. Buyers increasingly have opted for the EcoBoost engines which offer boosts in fuel efficiency and performance but command a premium of about $1,000.

    Ford won't publicly speculate on future investments, but the company's goals are clear: In lieu of more fuel-efficient but expensive diesel engines — and until hybrids and electrics catch on, if they ever do — the power and fuel efficiency of EcoBoost remains the chosen path."

    Ford's EcoBoost engine to spur investment, job growth (Detroit News)
  • cannon3cannon3 Member Posts: 296
    Ford needs to expand on the Focus platform. Add a 2 door, 2 door hatch, convertible and a wagon. Give people choices on such a great platform. Next, BRING BACK THE RANGER! Offer a diesel engine in a 4cyl, offer a turbo diesel, heck even a hybrid! I just will never understand why Ford let the Japanese take the small truck market!!??? Sad.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    The small truck market shrunk from 2M to 250K in just a few years. Ford chose not to invest in a vehicle in such a declining market, not the other way around.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747
    The market declined because small trucks weren't competitive when all the investment was in the full-size market. Tack onto that the fact that fuel economy within the segment was marginally, at best, better than in the full-size market, and what incentive do people have to buy them?

    They sold like hotcakes when they were a good value.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    If there was a viable market then SOMEBODY would be going after it. Nobody is making any significant investment in small trucks now. If there was that much opportunity then somebody would be going after it with gusto.

    People who love small trucks like to think that the decline was due to product. But in reality the majority of the folks who used to buy Rangers switched to crossovers and small cars.

    It's not that there isn't a market - it's just that the market is very small and not worth a big investment like it used to be.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2013
    All good points but there are a lot of niche vehicles out there. Juke? Countryman? Veloster? HHR? Insight? Z4? Tribeca?

    You'd think Ford could have cranked a few Rangers now and then and still use the line for something else the rest of the time. It's not like they'd have to invest a lot of new money in tooling.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747
    Yes, but they have to make something people really want to buy. Remember, they shut down a whole plant (that's a lot of savings!) when they scrapped the Ranger in North America.

    akirby has a point, for sure. There was a time when people liked small pickups because they recognized their utility and versatility. I think the market is itching for a good offering in this class, but are settling for compact/mid-size SUVs because there isn't anything compelling. Honda was on the right track with their Ridgeline, but the towing isn't good enough and the fuel economy stinks.

    Get a midsize, four-door pickup with a 5'+ bed, add a solid 6,500# towing capacity, AWD optional, average FE of 25+, and priced in the 20s, and it would sell very well I think.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I guess it's too much to hope that Ford would let the Aussies build a third generation Ranger to US specs and ship 'em here. They seem to still be selling well there though. We came really close to buying a Courier back in the day.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    You underestimate the amount of work involved to build "a few niche vehicles". And it would be stupid for Ford to sell 50K new Rangers if all it did was cannibalize F150 sales.

    Ford has far better things to spend money on including making the new F150 significantly better in terms of fuel economy which would be worth a lot more than a few Ranger sales.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2013
    Well the other manufacturers are still cranking out their niche vehicles.

    My brother has a new F-150. Have you seen the liftover height on those things? His came with a built-in step on the tailgate to help you climb into the bed.

    I still think there's a market for compact pickups, and we'd likely be flooded with Thai ones if it weren't for the chicken tax.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    But nobody is investing anything in upgrades or remodels on those existing vehicles. Even Tata pulled out.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747
    It's no surprise. Government regs highly disfavor compact pickups, just like they do wagons. There's far larger margin of profitability, for many reasons, in other models.

    Because of that, you're right... compact pickups are merely a niche with a heavy cost of entry (not so different from diesels).
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2013
    Obviously Ford needs a compact hybrid diesel pickup. :shades:
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747
    Hahahaha; yeah, if you're going in, do it with conviction. :P
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2013
    Another one we won't get but the Aussies will - the Chevy/Holden SS UTE:

    image
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Don't be surprised if Ford comes out with something very similar to that. 1000 lb payload, 3000 lb towing.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Well, it may sell godaddy hosting.

    "Under the skins, they are still purpose-built machines, no more "stock" than a Formula 1 machine. But at least they look like stock cars, and that, Allison says, is significant. He cited the introduction of the Mustang brand in NASCAR's second-tier division, the Nationwide Series, in 2010."

    2013 NASCAR Ford Fusion's Mission: Strengthen Consumer Relevance

    image
  • jae5jae5 Member Posts: 1,206
    I'm not sure about you but I'm seeing a lot more Transits on the street so perhaps Ford is using this to fill the gap of the Ranger? Looking these over st the show they over a lot of configurations to carry cargo.

    But for me, my small pickup serves my hauling needs very well (but if GM wised up & brought the Ute over it may get another partner in the garage :shades: ).
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Ford wants to better challenge Honda and Toyota, particularly among the 90-million-strong Millennial generation, which Edmunds.com and R.L. Polk & Co. found is less loyal when it comes to buying cars.The Dearborn automaker thinks it can attract buyers from a competing brand and build a larger customer base through the supersegment.

    The supersegment has grown at the expense of large cars, like the Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, Ford Taurus and Chevrolet Impala, sales of which have continually declined."

    Ford takes new route to auto sales (Detroit News)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Ford's best-ever quarter in North America came on the strength of higher volume of vehicle sales, especially of new models like the Ford Fusion and Ford Escape buttressed by the venerable Ford F-Series pickups and Ford Explorer SUV, which pushed up market share," said Michelle Krebs, Edmunds.com senior analyst. "In addition, Ford is fetching top dollar on those sales as consumers buy the high-end trim levels and load their Fords with equipment."

    Robust Auto Sales Propel Ford's North American Profits to a Record
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    And that ladies and gentlemen is why Ford pushed the Fusion and Escape out even through they probably weren't quite ready and experienced a lot of launch issues. The cost savings from switching to single global platforms must be huge.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    2,000 new jobs in Kansas City to crank out more F-150s. A talking head this morning says a new F-150 is sold in the US every 46 seconds.

    The aging truck fleet (average age is 11 years), improving housing sector and other factors are driving sales.

    "Cheap" gas prices weren't mentioned.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "In an unexpected, dramatic change in the global automobile industry, utility vehicles have emerged as one of the hottest segments, with Ford leading the transition.

    Oversized, fuel-inefficient utility vehicles, once a symbol of American overindulgence, have fallen out of favor, replaced by smaller, more stylish versions, many built on car platforms rather than truck platforms.

    As the middle class expands around the world, and as road conditions improve, "utilities are attractive in a lot of countries," Caldwell said. "The SUV is a status symbol, with higher seating, good visibility, and the boxy (shapes) gone."

    How Ford Escape Is Taking Over the World (thestreet.com)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "The satisfaction is higher on the vehicles equipped with MyFord Touch than without," Raj Nair, Ford's global product development chief, said in an interview. "We've been able to spend a lot of time with customers to find what exactly are the areas that are bothering them."

    One of the things that bothered customers was the inability to quickly change the channel or volume on the radio through familiar knobs, he said. As Ford redesigns its vehicles, the flat control panels with add more buttons and knobs and the main screen will become simpler."

    Ford to Add Back Dashboard Buttons After Complaints (Wall St. Journal)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Subscription only. This one should work:

    Ford to Add Back Dash Buttons
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2013
    Sometimes you can do a search for the headline and find the story too.

    Nothing wrong with a few dials and knobs on the dash.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2013
    But fun for Ford fans.

    Frankfurt Motor Show: Germans learn a stunning truth (youtube.com)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2013
    The biggest volume Ford dealer in the world for 23 years running is where you wonder? Dearborn?

    Guess again.

    Galpin Celebrates 60 Years Under Boeckmann Ownership

    Not even Cal Worthington could out-sell them.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2013
    Kind of too bad - I'd take a flyer on some MSFT stock if he'd take over for Ballmer.

    "“The plan is he’s going to stick around,” said Ford, 56, of Mulally in an interview with Bloomberg Television on Monday. “I’m happy he’s sticking around. But we also feel really good about where we are in terms of succession.”

    Ford acknowledged that the CEO does not have a contract."

    Bill Ford: Mulally staying put, not going to Microsoft (Detroit News)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I just read that the Flat Rock plant which recently started producing Fusion's is already scheduling production shutdowns due to too much inventory. Apparently Ford has something like an average of 88 days of sales inventory at dealers. Ford blames it on Camry incentives. Might it also be that they have gotten too aggressive on pricing? I think that may explain the Black Friday deals at GM too. I think Ford is lucky the small crossover segment is still on fire because the Escape is priced kind of high versus it's Asian competition and has already had something like 7 recalls during it's first year out. I know my aunt is very happy now that she bought a comparably equipped Honda CRV for less money. She was initially reluctant to do that.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Ford seems unwilling to engage in a price war with rivals just to maintain sales volume. Prior to Flat Rock coming online both the Fusion and Escape were maxed out on plant capacity. They'll weather the storm with decreased production until the fire sale is over and incentives return to normal.

    If Ford can max out an entire assembly plant selling vehicles at a high MSRP - why is that bad? Isn't that what Honda did in the 90s? I remember folks paying MSRP or higher for Accords back then and waiting in line for vehicles.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Perhaps, but if you check recent depreciation value schedules, Honda is in the best class for lowest depreciation, and Ford is in worst class for greatest depreciation. This reflects on initial price point when the vehicle is new. Purchasers will reflect their confidence with their wallet.

    I think it is misplaced arrogance of Ford to not be more price competitive..especially when they are not spotless with regards to R&D and recalls and other issues... (fantastical EPA ratings) etc.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    IIRC the output in Mexico wasn't all that high compared to a lot of other plants and it was the previous version selling out production which was priced much more competitively. The new version is a sharp looking car, but I'm not sure it's sharp enough to beat Camry, Accord, etc. at inflated pricing. I don't disagree on margin up to a point. But there comes a point where it can get too high and render a vehicle not very price competitive causing customers to lose interest. I don't think in today's economy many buyers are willing to pay big price premiums, especially for mainstream vehicles. There are many, many choices out there today. The old oligopoly is long gone.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It's not misplaced arrogance - it's simply good business practice. You can hold out for a higher price and move fewer units or you can cut prices (add incentives) and build more vehicles but make less profit per vehicle. The Fusion's Average Transaction Price is more than $4K more than Camry already before the big incentives. Prior to the incentive war the Fusion was selling more than it ever had and doing it with much higher ATPs at the same time. Apparently consumers are willing to pay higher prices for Fusions so there's no reason for Ford to panic just because the competition starts an incentive war.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Hermosillo put out 300K vehicles for the last 7 years on 3 shifts. That's pretty high. Remember they also exported Fusions to Latin and South America, not just the U.S. and Canada.

    You don't beat Camry and Accord in sales just by having a great vehicle. You need a steady stream of repeat buyers - multiple repeat buyers - to build up volume over time. That's what Accord and Camry did. 33% of Camry buyers are repeat buyers. Ford is only around 19% as this is only the second generation of Fusion whereas Camry is on its 4th or 5th generation. You have to build up that base of repeat buyers in addition to new buyers.

    Based on sales the first 9 months of the year, it appears that buyers are willing to pay higher prices for the new Fusion. $4K more than Camry by comparison. It wasn't until the competition added incentives that Fusion lost sales, which apparently means the competition was overpricing their vehicles, not Ford. Or they were overproducing. Either way that doesn't reflect negatively on Ford. A lot of people buy on price and they buy cheap. Ford doesn't want that business. They want higher ATPs and so far they're getting it even if it means reduced volumes temporarily. This incentive war won't continue.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I agree that holiday season is a good time to lay off workers, IF they have decided to go that route (to ensure similar ATPs). But depending on how long it lasts, is Ford's build design disgruntled-workers-proof? For any prospectively hopeful Ford purchasers, one can only hope. During that time, it also allows buyers to shop and read the 'press'.

    I'm gonna stick with the arrogance word..but hey..if it makes you feel better..there have been times I have accused Honda of exactly the same thing. It's just that, in the end, I did vote my confidence level on Honda. Ford failed me and I swore to them if they turned their back on me in a cut-and-dried case of injustice that I would never forget it. And I haven't.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Ford also has to contend with currency manipulation, so there's another incentive Honda and Toyota have that Ford doesn't enjoy. (Bloomberg)
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I continue to be impressed with your ability to put your hands on pertinent links, Steve...spur of the moment even, most times..

    Some pretty passionate comments posted at the bottom of that one too..

    Obviously having taken it seriously.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Margin vs., volume is a tough issue to balance in real life. Too much or little of either one impacts finances. Plant utilization is another tough variable. You don't want to overproduce due to inventory carrying costs. While you can use layoffs to cut direct expenses, lack of production can lead to unabsorbed overhead since the fixed costs don't go away. Meanwhile frequent or extended layoffs can also have some impact as workers get rusty or po'd. I think they are adding Mustang to that plant, but if they can't operate it close to capacity routinely it will become a drag on profits offsetting some of the gain from higher selling margins. Lower volume can also raise the price for parts and materials from vendors. I guess the Fusion answer will play out over time as it's newness wears off. A good looking new model will almost always bring a better price (at least initially), but a good looking vehicle can also ironically get old looking quicker than a more conservative model sometimes. I think Hyundai is experiencing that with the Sonata.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    They're only temporarily stopping production. They do this all the time for various reasons. They're not laying anybody off.

    Mustang has always been at Flat Rock, and they're going to add the new Taurus and MKS within the next year or two. No problem keeping the plant busy.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2013
    Ford just added the Fusion line at Flat Rock this August (two shifts). Hermosillo couldn't keep up with demand. Now the supply has grown from ~65 days to ~88. Rumor is that the Fusion line will be idled for a whole month sometime next quarter.

    You have to wonder if the fall in sales last July was due to lack of vehicles or maybe something else was happening besides Camry incentives and the falling yen.

    Or maybe it's just a bit of oversupply and we (well, not Akirby) are over-reacting:

    "With a second factory -- in Flat Rock, Mich. -- online producing Ford Fusions, sales of Ford's hot mid-sized sedan soared 71 percent in October, pacing Ford Motor Co. to a 14 percent monthly sales increase.

    "The Fusion broke an October retail record in every one of our five markets nationally," said John Felice, Ford vice president of U.S. marketing, sales and service."

    Sources:

    Ford kicks up Fusion production, shares Mustang factory (USA Today)

    Ford to Idle Fusion Production at Flat Rock Plant for One Week (Motor Trend)

    Hot Fusion paces Ford sales
    (Automotive News)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    They're just taking steps to prevent over-supply. I'm sure Camry incentives are taking some sales but that's all temporary. Hermosillo is still going full tilt as far as I know just like it was earlier this year. Note that this is what Honda has always done - only make as many as you can sell at a healthy price without big incentives. I think toyota is desperate to keep the sales lead even if it means lower profits. Sounds just like GM and Ford a decade ago.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    It was just a year ago that the Chinese were boycotting Honda and Toyota over a territorial dispute.

    Now, a year later, there's a spat over an "air defense" zone between China and both Japan and South Korea (and the US). Sounds like the issue is dissipating but if it heats up, that could hurt the Japanese automakers.

    How that would affect Ford, I don't know.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Nicely updated and more svelte but still unmistakably mustang....

    Base engine - 2.3L ecoboost 300 hp/300 lb ft

    image
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454

    Da winna again.

    "Ford expects to retain its title as the best-selling vehicle brand in North America for the fourth year in a row, thanks to such key models as the 2013-'14 Ford Fusion, 2013-'14 Ford Escape and 2013-'14 Ford Fiesta.

    The automaker said its Ford brand expects to sell more than 2.4 million vehicles in 2013, well ahead of 2nd-place Toyota.

    "We're seeing double-digit sales growth in cars, trucks and utilities," said John Felice, vice president of Ford's U.S. marketing, sales and service. With 16 launches in 2014, "we're looking to keep our sales momentum going."

    Ford Poised To Be Best-Selling U.S. Auto Brand Again, Company Says

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited January 2014

    "The gains by Detroit are striking Toyota and Tokyo-based Honda in the hearts of their lineups. Deliveries of Ford’s Fusion climbed 22 percent from January to November, outpacing gains of 1.3 percent for Camry and 11 percent for Accord. And Fusions sold for an average of $26,378 last year, a premium of $897 to Accord and $2,224 to Camry, the lock to be the top-selling car in the U.S. for a 12th consecutive year.

    “From so many views, it shouts out ‘I’m a $60,000 car,’” Smith, the Californian, said of the white-platinum Fusion hybrid that he bought for $33,500. “The Aston Martin look really draws attention.”

    The Fusion is a standout in a crowded field of more competitive passenger cars from Detroit. Deliveries of GM’s Cadillac cars jumped 55 percent last year through November, and Chrysler’s Dodge line of cars boosted sales by 31 percent. Those were the two biggest gains of any car brand with at least 20,000 deliveries last year."

    Detroit Gains Ground in 2013 as Ford Fusion Sets Growth (Bloomberg)

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062

    What you're seeing now with Fusion is what we saw previously with Accord and Camry. You build up more and more repeat buyers with each generation to go with the new buyers. I expect Fusion to plateau soon until the next refresh. Ford no longer cares about being #1 - they're more focused on profits and ATPs than overall sales crowns.

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747

    @akirby said:
    Ford no longer cares about being #1 - they're more focused on profits and ATPs than overall sales crowns.

    I think that's true. When successes happen, it is surely a bonus, but taking a title simply means you get a huge target painted on your back!

    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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