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Caravan/Voyager Serpentine Belt

deacon2deacon2 Member Posts: 8
edited September 2014 in Chrysler
My wife has a 2000 Plymouth Voyager that lately has ruined two serpentine belts. As the belt comes down off of the tensioner it makes its way around the power steering pump then around the rest of the accessories. The belt starts working its way along the edging of the steering pump pulley, I believe either the pulley may be slightly bent (which it does not seem to be) or the tensioner is wearing out. Has anyone else had this problem or have any solutions?
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Comments

  • jcumbojcumbo Member Posts: 4
    We have a 99 Voyager with the exact same issue. After it jumped off many times (all during wet road conditions) I went nutso with the dealership after their repeated and failed attempts at fixing the problem. Though the internet was full of these issues, the dealership said they had not heard of the problem. Long story short, they finally put a guard on the outside of the tensioner pulley and it has never fallen off since. The guard looks like a large washer that has a wider diameter than the pulley - which keeps it from walking off. Good luck!
  • rbbarthorbbartho Member Posts: 14
    Can you tell me the name of that dealership as I need to get his problem fixes ASAP. This will be my 6th belt.
  • jcumbojcumbo Member Posts: 4
    Yes - it is Nick Abraham Chrystler Buick in Elyria, Ohio 440-366-6446.
  • rbbarthorbbartho Member Posts: 14
    Thanks very much, I'll give them a call. My repair shop wants $345.00 to change the belt and Idle pulley.

    I called Chrysler and they said they don't plan to do anything to fix the problem. I would think they make this a recall item. This is the last time I own a Chrysler product. Next time it will be a Toyota.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    If you're having serpentine belt problems, here's a sure fire way to get it fixed:

    http://www.midwayautosupply.com/pc-48526-261-gates-system-solution-micro-v-kit-f- or-chrysler-33l-and-38l-engines-38379k.aspx

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • rbbarthorbbartho Member Posts: 14
    Thanks very Much,

    I placed an order for the kit....$99.00 is worth a try.

    Bob
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Cool. Be sure to keep us posted on how it works out. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • flavifeflavife Member Posts: 20
    Has your dealer carried out the technical service bulletin Number: 07-02-99 "Serpentine Belt - Loss of Power Steering Assist" for 96-99 minivans that deals with this issue? I have no idea if this TSB is better than the Gates System Fix.

    Good Luck
    Frank
  • rbbarthorbbartho Member Posts: 14
    Hi Frank,

    I checked this and, YES, there is a service bulletin which requires a new belt, tensioner and a shield. They also have a Pulley guard (essentially a washer that keeps the belt from slipping off Chrysler part # 500 3480 AA. I'm on my way to get that right now. I will try to put the belt on myself. May need some special tool to tension the belt and will find out and let you guys know. Chrysler sucs, in my opinion. I called them in Detroit and got no help. They should have told us about this a long time ago. This will be my 6th belt and lots of aggravation. Next time I'm buying a Toyota.
  • flavifeflavife Member Posts: 20
    I have a 99 Grand Caravan with 3.3L engine. I made a plywood stick 10" long 1" wide out of 5/8" plywood that I use to hold the tensioner compressed to remove the belt. I have a slight angle on one end of the stick to better prop it against the tensioner. I use a long box end wrench on the tensioner bolt and press just enough to compress the tensioner and wedge the stick in to hold the tensioner down. This allows me to remove the belt and replace it or to replace the idler wheels.

    Frank
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Next time I'm buying a Toyota."

    Hmmm, serpentine belt problems or engine sludge, take your pick. Personally I'll deal with the serpentine belt and be happy that my engine is spotless in the inside after 135,000 miles (as of today).

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • rbbarthorbbartho Member Posts: 14
    I got the Goodyear fix done yesterday instead. But this appears identical to the Gates fix. The kit sells for about $130 plus $100 to install by Goodyear Auto Center. Too early to tell and will keep you guys posted. The Chrysler fix of Bulletin 07-02-99 is just to add a pulley guard (a washer & longer bolt) adjacent to the tensioner pulley. It could be the answer too but time will tell as well.
  • jcumbojcumbo Member Posts: 4
    Sludge may suck, but having your wife and children completely lose power steering, etc... is no comparison. Given the wrong situation, this could cause a major accident (and may already have) and Chrystler jerked us all around for too long before putting through this bulletin. This board was full of complaints about this issue, but the dealership said it was unheard of?! To be fair, the van is at 111k and has been great other than this hair-raising issue.
  • lizaleolizaleo Member Posts: 1
    The belt slipped off te pullys- Does not look too worn to me but squealed for like 10,000 miles.
    Is this a do it yourself job? and should I buy a new belt? I took a look at it and it seems rather tight to get your hand in there.
  • rbbarthorbbartho Member Posts: 14
    I had mine fixed at Goodyear Auto Center. Cost me about $230 total.

    You can get the same kit, made by Gates, from midwayautosales.com ($116 including shipping. Depends on whether you have the 3.0 or 3.3 liter) and do it yourself.

    You have to removed the front right wheel and the water deflection shield below to get access to the pulleys. You may need a wrench to tension the tension pulley to slip the belt on.
  • lfulwiderlfulwider Member Posts: 1
    My 1997 Voyager runs fine, belt doesn't squeak or fall off. A Chrysler dealer replaced the tensioner and belt with factory parts 12,000 miles ago. The pulley is offset from the belt so that the belt rides flush with the passenger side of the pulley, and 1/8 inch of pulley shows on the driver's side of the belt. The inspector insisted the belt be centered. I added a spacer so that it would pass inspection, which it did. Did I make a mistake? Is the pulley intentionally offset 1/8 inch? Should I remove the spacer now that I have a sticker?

    lfulwider
  • chrismitchellchrismitchell Member Posts: 1
    Hi, I have been reading about this tensioner. I've got problems too. I live in New Zealand and I have a '99 short wheel base Voyager with 3.3l V6 engine. The tensioner is smooth and has no flange nor washer to hold on the belt. Anyway, today the black splined shaft has failed by fatigue crack and the whole tensioner unit has fallen off the motor. It is a first year of Uni classic fatigue crack with beech marks. If it had happened to me last night (driving 200km from Tauranga to Auckland) I would be dead at the bottom of a gulley, no question about it. Luckily I was only backing out of the garage. So, you'll be pleased to know the "export" versions don't get special treatment. Anyway, up to now I never lost a belt and for the last few months the belt did start squeaking at startup but quietened down when running. If your belt does start squeaking like mine then it could be that the tensioner is cracked causing the pulley set up a bit crooked. So, a full inspection of the tensioner including splined attachment shaft/axle is what I would recommend. If anyone else experienced this or if I am really just unlucky I'd be interested to know.
  • rbbarthorbbartho Member Posts: 14
    The gates system or the Goodyear system are both identical and work very well. Try at Midway auto supply for about $100.00 ( Gates System).

    I have the Goodyear system on my Dodge Minivan. You can get it at a Goodyear auto repair shop. It's going to cost you about $130 plus about $100 to install. This includes the new double ribbed belt, tensioner and pulley.

    I am not happy with Chrsyler dealerships as I have replaced my serpentine belt at least 5 times until I found out about the service bulletin and Gates/Goodyear systems. I didn't try the Chrysler fix even though the part (a washer) is only $15.00, after they are done with with replacing the belt, tensioner and spacer it's going to cost you more than $300.00 (In Seattle.)

    Shop it out. My math told me to go with the Goodyear kit. It's been more than 4 months and the belt looks good.
  • nicompvoyagernicompvoyager Member Posts: 5
    Hi All,

    1997 Voyager, 3.0L, 140K miles, original owner...

    Belt tensioners are replaced about 1 per year. The last time it was replaced it just howled when it got wet. I was told by the shop that the wrong pulley was on there. They went to a different belt on the second try. I don't know who replaced the pulley since I bought it new, it will remain a mystery. Anyway, after getting it back, the serpentine belt fell off while driving it and we lost power steering, alternator, A/C.

    The belt dragged on the ground for about 20 miles until I drove it back to the shop that replaced the tensioner. They reseated the belt. Yesterday, it fell off again. I am being told by them that when we hit a big puddle the belt tends to fall off of this model. That's funny since we've had it over 10 years and it's only come off twice in that time, both times since they worked on it.

    Should I give up and sell it? Is this a chronic problem with this model? Help!

    Aside from the headliner falling off, valve job at 55K, remote mirror failure, eats belt tensioners about 1 per year, fan relay failure, valves tapping like a diesel, yada yada yada... it's an OK car.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Scroll to the bottom of this page for the reference to the kit for the 3.0 Mitsubishi engine:

    http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=2911&location_id=3488

    By all accounts, the special belt kit from Gates stops the belt problems completely. Said another way, I've heard from lots of folks that have put this system on their vans and so far at least, not one belt has been thrown.

    Let us know how you make out.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • nicompvoyagernicompvoyager Member Posts: 5
    shipo, that is so cool. Thanks very much. The selection chart for the device is a graph of horsepower vs shaft speed. I will try to convince the repair shop to interpret it for me. I think I can install it once I get the correct unit.

    Thanks!
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Glad I could help out. ;-)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I don't think that there is anything to interpret. I went to the NAPA-Online web site and they only list one Gates conversion kit for the 1997 3.0 liter vans, it' $174.00. FWIW, I'm pretty sure that I've seen them for ~$150, I just don't remember where.

    http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=NBH&Par- tNumber=38342K&Description=Belt+Conversion+Kit+-+V-Ribbed+Belt+to+Dual+Sided+V-R- ibbed+Belt

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • nicompvoyagernicompvoyager Member Posts: 5
  • roadwarrior4roadwarrior4 Member Posts: 5
    I have a '99 Grand caravan and was able to find a mechanic who solved this problem. First, Make sure that the molding beneath the windshield is secure and not dumping rainwater onto the serpentine belt. Second, Carquest makes a kit that modifies the Chrysler design. I had it installed and it solved the problem.
  • roadwarrior4roadwarrior4 Member Posts: 5
    I have a '99 Grand that had the infamous flying serpentine belt. Had the CarQuest modification kit (which I believe is the same as the Gates solution mentioned above) installed and also sealed the base of the windshield where water was dumping onto the belt and tensioner. Have not had the serpentine or tensioner problem since.
  • rbbarthorbbartho Member Posts: 14
    The Goodyear fix I had installed last March is still working well.
  • jmartin24jmartin24 Member Posts: 1
    Any suggestions for a '94 3.3L? We've had ours for 2-3 years now and twice (thanks to the remains of Hurricane Gustav) in the last 8 months we've had this problem. $150 (not to mention the time out of a work day) to drive in the rain seems a little steep - and according to my guys, they know this is a problem, but no kit exists? Does anyone have any suggestions? The seemingly simple solution of a guard on the tensioner pulley seems creative and effective enough...
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    You're responding to a post that has the ultimate suggestion. By all accounts, every van that has had the Gates kit installed has seen the problem completly solved.
  • rbbarthorbbartho Member Posts: 14
    There is a fix. Chrysler has a bulletin they don't tell you about. It's a large washer that is connected to the idle pulley. Cost is around $15.00 . They never told me about it until I did some research.

    There is also an aftermarket pulley system that has tracks on both sides of the idle pulley and it solved my problem more than 18 months ago. It's a Goodyear serpentine pulley kit for about $235.00. I would go to Chrysler first since it's cheaper.

    I would not rely altogether on the rain water or puddle excuse.
  • pberthotypberthoty Member Posts: 1
    Why is it after replacing a new belt and new tensioner, the belt comes off in the rain, snow and going through puddles? I wasted money on these and they are less than a year old and I have to replace them with a kit containing the same thing except they are grooved?
    It came off on my wife over a dozen times. No power steering (no control), no water pump (engine overheats causing dangerous to aluminum heads), no alternator (no battery charging), no AC. All powered by ONE belt. $40 a pop to put the belt back on. An independent recommended a kit, parts and labor, over $300. We then found a radiator leak, thinking the slick antifreeze was causing the belt to come off, so I spent the $300 replacing a new radiator. Still the belt came off.
    I have looked over numerous forums on the web and with all the problems with Dodge, Plymouth, Chrysler vans, why do we have to pay to get it fixed?
    I thought I'd be smart and start out with some "cheaper fixes". One guy was selling disks to put over the tensioner and idle pulley for $30. I found the disk covers from Advance for $8 apiece and installed them on both idle and tension pulleys and thought how smart I was until I went through a puddle...twice and both times it came off. I started looking at the Dayco 89251 from Advance, but it is a smooth tension pulley. My wife called me today and guess what...she went through a puddle. So..here I am ordering a Gates 38379K kit from Amazon $111.63 incl. S & H. Advance has Goodyear kit 49215K for $124.99 plus tax, but it had to be ordered. You can also order separate double sided belt, grooved idle and tension pulleys, but they total more than $111. The double sided belt is over $65.
    CONTACT THE NHTSA on their web site or call them at 888-327-4236. I am surprized if someone hasn't gotten KILLED yet!!!
  • rbbarthorbbartho Member Posts: 14
    The Gates or Goodyear kit should do it. It's been least 3 years since I installed it and haven't had any problems. I don't know if replacement belts are readily available but and may be a good idea to have one handy, I feel fairly secure now and have taken several of town trips without any problems, rain or shine.
    Quite difference from several years ago when I was replacing them every few months.
  • jcumbojcumbo Member Posts: 4
    Amen to that. We had our 1999 Voyager for about 3 years when it first started losing belts and it wasn't until I threatened to call the local TV station did the dealer offer to put the large washer (??) on the tensioner pulley which did the trick for me for quite a while. But then we had a problem with the belt squealling like crazy any time there was even a hint of moisture out. To resolve this we added the Goodyear Gatorbelt and it took care of the squeaks for a long time and and it also held it in place well. We ran into it the squeaking again and I bought a new belt, this time it was the same style but a brand from NAPA. That did the trick until we broke 3 damper pulleys - probably from all of the torque holding the belt in alignment. Honestly I think something wears along the system where the belt rides and it is out of alignment just enough to screw things up, but not enough to be visible to the naked eye. (I read somewhere that a cracked motor mount was common in these to cause this issue, but I can't confirm that one as they never found that problem with mine.) That's why it only pops off after it's aged a while and when it gets moisture on the pulleys. It clearly should have been recalled but the losers in Detroit decided they would rather risk our lives and save a buck vs. doing the right thing. Otherwise, great van - had it 10 years and we finally gave up when it began to throw damper pulleys. Good luck and be safe.
  • markscaravanmarkscaravan Member Posts: 1
    Hi, I stumbled on this thread while doing research on my own van problems... Like everyone else, my serpentine belt has been slipping off. The first time was a few years ago - it managed to stay on for over 2 years in rainy Vancouver BC. However, it fell off again a month ago... then a few weeks ago... then again on New Years Eve. In the past, I replaced the tensioner and belt to no avail. After finding this thread, I was able to source the Gates conversion kit for 3.3 and 3.8 Litre engines locally (LORDCO - cost $200 - ask for a discount because it's listed at $299.00 in their computer, they were great about it) as mine is a Caravan SE 3.3L. I had it installed today at Midas - took 1 hour ($90) - they had to cut-down a bolt in the kit that was too long but that's the only mod they had to do. Now I have peace of mind while driving in the rain.. which is almost every day in the winter! So, for those Canadians out there, it's a quick and easy fix which will cost between $300-$350 depending on your mechanic and how much you pay for the kit. Well worth it if you plan on keeping your van and driving it in the rain!! I feel like suing Dodge for my money back - dammit, I should! If my belt should fall off again, I will DEFINITELY post here, but I have confidence that the problem is fixed. CHEERS!
  • martin629martin629 Member Posts: 4
    Hi please keep my up to date. I just spent 65.00 on the road to get this fixed for the 3rd time. I will call goodyear and check up on it. I have a 3.0 do they have a fix for mine?
    Thanks Martin
  • rbbarthorbbartho Member Posts: 14
    Use the Goodyear kit for serpentine belt. I have had mine for 3 years and problems since. I used to drop belts about every year for 5 years. It will work and cost about $220 installed. New pulleys and belt. It will work on the 3.0 Liter. I have the same.
  • martin629martin629 Member Posts: 4
    Where did you get the good year kit at? And who did the work Goodyear? Let me know Thanks. My belt comes off when ever it rains and about every 30 days.
    Thanks martin
  • rbbarthorbbartho Member Posts: 14
    Go to Goodyear Service Center and they will install one for about $230. They did it to my Dodge 3.0 Caravan and had no problems since it was installed 3 years ago.
    Otherwise, Dodge will fix it by putting a special washer, about $20, in the pulley/idler to prevent the serpentine belt from jumping off.
    Funny, Dodge had this in their service bulletins years ago and but dot bother to tell you about it. You find out through the Internet, unless you go to an honest dealer service department that will search it out. I don't know how well the Dodge washer works out, but I'm sure they're going to charge you for labor as well.

    Goodyear did the trick for me.
  • rbbarthorbbartho Member Posts: 14
    Go to Goodyear Service Center and they will install one for about $230. They did it to my Dodge 3.0 Caravan and had no problems since it was installed 3 years ago.
    Otherwise, Dodge will fix it by putting a special washer, about $20, in the pulley/idler to prevent the serpentine belt from jumping off.
    Funny, Dodge had this in their service bulletins years ago and but dot bother to tell you about it. You find out through the Internet, unless you go to an honest dealer service department that will search it out. I don't know how well the Dodge washer works out, but I'm sure they're going to charge you for labor as well.

    Goodyear did the trick for me.
  • jpfjpf Member Posts: 496
    Does this belt problem only affect the 3.3 and 3.8 liter engines? I have a 2006 Caravan with the 4 cylinder engine (2.4 liters). I have replaced the belt because of it squeaking but it hasn't fallen off in 47k miles.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    As far as I know, the belt issue only affects some Gen 3 vans with V6 engines. Given that yours is a Gen 4 with the I4 engine, I seriously doubt you'll ever have the belt fall off unless it's way old and/or the tensioner siezes.

    FWIW, I've had two Gen 3 vans with the 3.8 and one Gen 4 with the 3.8 as well, and in a combined 480,000 miles, not one belt has fallen off. ;)

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • martin629martin629 Member Posts: 4
    Hey gang I bought my part off Ebay. They guy was great and made sure I got the right one for my 3.0 voyager. If anybody wants the link I know he has 4 more on line and im sure he can get more then that. I Paid 110.00 plus shipping but I did get it in 2 days. It was a good sale. The shop told me a hour to put it on so im well under 200.00 for everything. Parts and service.
    Martin
  • martin629martin629 Member Posts: 4
    Here is the Ebay listing. Now this is for the 3.0 and he has 3 listed. I do know he also has the kit for the 3.3 and 3.8 just ask him.
    Good luck
    Martin

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400101428236&ru=ht- tp%3A%2F%2Fmotors.shop.ebay.com%3A80%2F__%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp4712.m39.l1- 313%26_nkw%3D400101428236%26_sacat%3D%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1#ht_1930wt_870
  • tomparisobctomparisobc Member Posts: 1
    I decided to replace the water pump on my own, and I have now finished the job. I decided to buy a new belt and lower radiator hose figuring now is a good time to make those changes (93k miles on the van).

    I cannot figure out how to get the belt back on, I have followed the diagram under the hood, but still have too much slack in the belt. I must not have it right around the belt tensioner. I also checked to make sure the new belt and the old belt are the same size and they are.

    PS I would have never thought you had to lower the engine to drop the water pump!
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    You may have a bad tensioner stuck in the slack position.
  • cheezer7cheezer7 Member Posts: 6
    hello was it easy to replace water pump my wife has a 2002 dodge caravan and i need to change it
  • nicompnicomp Member Posts: 21
    The gates aftermarket solution works great. I bought one and had my mechanic install it. Before that, every time I went through a puddle the belt came off. It's been several years and I've had no problems at all with the belt.

    1997 Voyager.
  • bkelly2bkelly2 Member Posts: 2
    I have been researching this issue on line for some time. I had heard about the belt slipping off some time ago but it never happened to me. I had replaced the tensioner pulley because of a chirp some time ago with no ill effect. Recently, the water pump started chirping and I replaced it. That’s when the belt jumping problem occurred. From that experience and what I have read, it appears that the parts used at the factory were either lined up perfectly or were adjusted somehow to line up perfectly. I have read, in one on-line forum, where one mechanic said he uses a straight edge to check the alignment of all of the pulleys when replacing parts. It would appear from the accounts that normal bearing wear or other foreseeable tolerance issues (bearing surface wear or mounting slippage of any of the 6 component pulley systems along the belt path) can contribute to this condition. If this is the case, then something as simple as a pot hole could be cause for eventual failure.
    I am baffled as to what advantage, Chrysler engineers, thought they were getting by specifying a pulley system without raised edges. As most of you probably know, older cars usually had a manually adjusted tensioner with v-belts and raised edge pulleys. Even when it was somewhat out of adjustment, that system usually worked.
    For those of you needing to compress the tensioner to put on or take off the belt, some auto parts stores lend the tool for free (refundable deposit). Those tools that I have seen have one long arm and shallow sockets or attachable spanner heads. The long arm will not work, on a 3.3 engine, if you are trying to compress the tensioner from the top of the engine for lack of clearance.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    A few comments:

    The advantanges of a serpentine belt (over a "V" belt) include (but are not limited to):
    - Lighter overall component weight
    - Greater torque applied to each individual pulley
    - Smaller/shorter overall packaging
    - Significantly longer life (assuming no alignment issues exist)
    - Faster R&R/simpler maintenance of components behind the belt system

    If I recall correctly, the 3.3 and 3.8 liter engines in the Gen 3 vans had their tensioner accessible from the top, however, in the Gen 4 vans the bottom is clearly the way to go.

    Regarding your situation vis-à-vis the water pump replacement causing an alignment issue, I find myself wondering about things like, A) differences in gasket thickness compared to the factory gasket, B) differences in the drive axle versus a Mopar pump (I'm assuming you have an aftermarket unit), and C) if there was any residual gasket material from the factory gasket left behind when your new pump was mounted.

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • bkelly2bkelly2 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks so much for your knowlegeable response. Yes it was an aftermarket pump and I am guessing from the resultant belt toss that there must be a thickness/size difference between the original and the replacement although it was not apparent during my perfunctory cautionary side by side comparison . As far as the mating surface - after removal of the original pump, there was surprisingly little residue left on the mating surface. What was there came off easily and I checked it by running my bare fingers over the entire surface and of course, visual inspection.
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