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Crossover SUV Comparison

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Your interior looks a whole lot better than the all black at the show. I like two-tone color schemes, for instance the Reese's interior on the new Chevy Malibu (chocolate and peanut butter color) is simply gorgeous.

    I don't like the double-hump over the gauges, looks like a giant brassiere. Or Madonna's bustiere. :D

    Or maybe I just need to get my mind out of the gutter. ;)

    The console is OK, I wasn't crazy about the textures of the black plastics, but it's matte and doesn't reflect so I guess that's functional. IMHO it looks fine for the $20-25k price range, but at $30k other interiors are nicer. You could argue that's a fair trade for the extra content.

    The outgoing Forester was smaller, the 09 is bigger and has a lot more features. NAV, back-up cams, Sportshift controls, Siruis. On the 234hp turbo, premium is recommended but technically not required. The higher-boost version of the same engine in the Legacy actually requires premium.

    Doesn't matter to us because we're shopping for the base 4 cylinder engines anyway.

    So I would put the Outlander SE 2.4l CVT AWD up against a Forester LL Bean model (moonroof, heated leather, etc), probably without NAV.

    I just ordered my 3rd Garmin and they more than meet our needs. Just got a Nuvi 200W model for only $199, and that's a 4.3" widescreen. Sold my c320 for $100 so the net cost to me was just $100, plus I got new maps in the deal. Map updates cost $75 so basically I got upgraded for $25. :shades:

    Backup cam is bundled with NAV, right? So that means I would not get it. Can you get a sonar backup sensor? I like your solution but you need the GPS screen first.

    Factory GPS is about $2 grand and updates DVD run a couple hundred. We debated the merits in this thread and most agree that's still a bit overpriced.

    I love gadgets but I'm cheap!

    PS I changed the name of the title of the msg since we're no longer discussing the CR-V.
  • chelentanochelentano Member Posts: 634
    My cream leather interior does look nice and feels luxurious. And even beige cloth interior feels much better then black. Personally black interior feels cheap to me on most car in this price range.

    Backup cam and parking sensors are not part of NAV package: it's a separate dealer installed option, though I am not sure if it requires Nav system. I understand though that biscuit_xls installed an aftermarket backup cam for only $50: 10 times cheaper than OEM backup cam.
  • chuckhoychuckhoy Member Posts: 420
    My wife looks at the big Buick and says excitedly; “Wow, do I ever like this. Is this one of the vehicles on our list?” I respond yes, but mention that we are here to test drive the Acadia today, and that we can drive the Enclave another day. She looks at the Acadias, then back at the Enclaves, then looks at the salesman and says; “Why don’t we drive the Enclave today?” The salesman smiles, realizes he’s got a nibble on his line and says that he would be just as happy to go back and get the keys for an Enclave. Not wanting to argue, I agree, and we go back in to get the keys and another brochure. Sensing my wife’s excitement, I ask the salesman for the keys to a CX model with as few options as possible. He smiles at me (as if we can both read each other’s minds) and says, “of course”.
    He takes us back to the vehicle and shows us around it, talking up how it compares so well to a Lexus RX350 (how does he know the Lexus is my wife’s favorite?), only more quiet, and with room for 7 or 8. This guy is good.

    You just described my shopping experience with my wife when we got the Outlook. Once she saw it, nothing else would be as good in her eyes. I made a list of all the vehicles we should try out. Got people to watch the kids while we narrowed the field. I should have just drove her around to lots to just look at cars.

    She even found a way to complain about the Acadia. She wanted no part of the concept that they are, essentially, the same car.
  • chelentanochelentano Member Posts: 634
    >> Yes, magazines make money from advertising. No doubt about it. Do you have any proof that their comparos are swayed by how much advertising / money is given to the magazine for advertising purposes? This is a pretty strong claim, basically saying their reviews are bias. I'm sure I am not the only one who would like to see some proof.

    Proof? Conflict of interest is build into the system, when on one hand “expert” suppose to make an objective judgment and on the other hand suppose to please biggest advertisers, otherwise that advertiser would take his business else ware. $10 a year subscription covers only postage. Car magazines get 99% of revenue from advertising and marketing all paid my manufactures, so by nature these magazines are sales and marketing tools for manufacturers. Magazine employees are ordinary people who have mortgages, they need to pay for kids in college, and need to maintain decent lifestyle. Do you really need a “proof” that car salesman is not always objective? Or may be you have a “proof” that car salesmen are objective?

    >> Personal opinion does not count.

    Then be consistent: you should not count personal opinions of magazine “experts”, nor your own personal opinions.

    >>As for sales, consumers seem to think the CR-V and RAV4 are a better bet to purchase, since their sales figures just trounce Mitsu's for 2007.

    Best product does not always have biggest market share (Microsoft/Apple, betamax/VHS, etc.)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually I should mention I liked those seats. Very well shaped and supportive, plus they even look sporty, as if there was some EVO/Recaro influence.

    Hmm, Subaru includes a backup cam with their GPS (per the preliminary spec sheet). Funny thing is you don't even need it!

    It should be the other way around, Subaru doesn't need it and Mitsubishi should include it. Sounds cheap enough to DIY.

    I checked Fitzgerald Mitsubishi and they have no 4 bangers in stock. Guess I have to wait to sample both of these.
  • chelentanochelentano Member Posts: 634
    >>Subaru includes a backup cam with their GPS

    2009 Forester? Yes, that one seems to be very nicely equipped, except fot 4-speed tranny. It would be much more expensive though.

    >>I checked Fitzgerald Mitsubishi and they have no 4 bangers in stock. Guess I have to wait to sample both of these.

    But I guess they don't have a Special Edition yet, so you would testing a basic entry level Outlander.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    We also loaded it up with 4 adults and 3 kids for a 1200 mile round-trip. I did hear complaints, but they were more of the "are we there yet?" variety after hour number 5.

    We did 4 adults and two kids in full size car seats this past Summer on a 10 hour trip to NC. I heard no complaint from anyone and they all slept like babies.

    Oddly enough, the legroom for all 3 rows in our '06 Explorer is listed as being greater than that of your Outlook. The Outlook wins on head, shoulder, and hip room for all 3 rows however. Measurements also show that the TX legroom is greater than the Outlook's in rows 2 and 3. I guess bench height comes into play but I have to wonder why anyone would care about this stuff? They're all comfortable, and I think you're with me on this, so why split the hairs for an inch or two of legroom?

    Maybe it's just me because I don't really care about that stuff. I want the vehicle to drive well and do what I intend it to do which is to get me and my family from A to B safely and in relative comfort.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I don't think the Forester would cost a lot more. They have to keep it under the Tribeca to avoid overlap.

    Any how, NAV is supposed to be a stand-alone option on the LL Bean and XT Limited models only, and like I said, we're going to pass.

    The LL Bean should come in around $25k or so street price, retail around $27k.

    4 speed auto is the only major strike I could find against the Forester. Subaru is rumored to have a CVT in the works for next model year, it just wasn't ready for the launch of the new 09 model.

    So looks like the Rogue, Forester, and Outlander 4 bangers will all employ CVTs. RAV4 still has a 4EAT as well, Honda a 5 speed. Santa Fe offers both 4 and 5 speeds, oddly enough.

    Just looked and gas mileage is lacking on the SF, so that may rule it out for us.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    About Flex: the interior looks same as TX. The second row moves same as TX, even seat same.The space behind third row looks same as TX.

    I see where you're coming from now. The seats, floor and some other smaller details are very similar. I thought you were talking about the dash and other more obvious things like the insides of the doors, because they are very different.

    It makes a lot of sense that there would be some similarites as they are both built on the same modified Volvo platform (XC90, S80, XC70). Since Mulally let the cat out of the bag regarding the all new from the ground up 2009 Taurus, and the recent intro of the Explorer America, the Ford forums have been very active regarding the future of the TX. So far it doesn't look good for the TX. Word is the Explorer America concept will be a production model come 2009, the Flex will be for sale and the new Taurus will be going on sale too. All of them will use the same Volvo platform with the Explorer and Flex basically being the replacements for the TX.

    In that sense you can almost say that the Flex will be the all new TX. ;)
  • chelentanochelentano Member Posts: 634
    2009 Forester styling looks refreshing and actually reminds me the Outlander. We have a large Chicago Auto Show coming just in 10 days, so I’ll check it out.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I knew I missed something. I rushed through the upstairs of the DC Auto Show and forgot to check if they had a Flex on the floor.

    That's too big for our current purchase, but I'm curious to see that interior.

    Bummer. I should go on the first day, and then go a 2nd time to catch what I missed.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Car magazines get 99% of revenue from advertising and marketing all paid my manufactures, so by nature these magazines are sales and marketing tools for manufacturers

    I just flipped through a recent copy of C&D. There were 52 ads placed by non auto manufacturers and 13 placed by the auto manufacturers. I don't see how "99%" of their revenue is generated by 20% of their ad space. That makes no sence. Once again, do you have proof that their assessments of vehicles is asque and based on monies that various auto manufacturers give them? Such as Toyota and Honda gaining praise over Mitsu because Honda and Toyota advertise more with that magazine? BTY, the issue of C&D I flipped through was March 07, and there was one Toyota, one Honda and one Mitsu ad, all were full page. I think it is safe to say, they all cost the same.

    Then be consistent: you should not count personal opinions of magazine “experts”, nor your own personal opinions

    I think you misunderstood me. You personal opinion that magazines' opinions of vehicles are bias due to revenue generated by advertisement does not count. Not your actual opinion of the vehicle.

    Best product does not always have biggest market share (Microsoft/Apple, betamax/VHS, etc.)

    Point well made. Cannot disagree with you there. I am a loyal Apple computer owner.
  • chuckhoychuckhoy Member Posts: 420
    and I think you're with me on this, so why split the hairs for an inch or two of legroom?

    I am with you. The only way you can definitively say that something is comfortable and fits your needs is to do what I do. Climb in the back of a car and plop your behind in the seat while somebody else drives the car around. Our salesman looked at me funny because when my wife was doing the test-drive I headed straight to the 3rd row to sit. If the comfort in the least comfortable spot is good, then ther rest will be good.

    Then again, when my dad and I took my sister to college one year I had to spend 5 hours in one of those little folding seats behind the passenger seat in a S-10 pickup with a 10 gallon fishtank full of CDs on my lap. I did not complain, much. Many people have said that my threshold for pain and suffering is abnormally high.
  • dstew1dstew1 Member Posts: 275
    The outgoing Forester was smaller, the 09 is bigger and has a lot more features. NAV, back-up cams, Sportshift controls, Siruis. On the 234hp turbo, premium is recommended but technically not required. The higher-boost version of the same engine in the Legacy actually requires premium.

    This is nitpicky, but have you actually seen anything to verify this? I know at one time (2004-2005) premium for the FXT was only "recommended", but the manual & gas cap list it as "required" starting in MY06 (the year I bought mine) and AFAIK it has not changed since.

    And it's got 224 horses, not 234. ;)

    But more important than anything... starting in 2010 in the U.S. the Forester will be offered with the new 2.0L boxer diesel, a powerplant which is currently getting absolutely rave reviews from Europe. How many other crossovers sold stateside will be able to boast a new, clean diesel in the next two years?

    Doug
  • hoser0ehhoser0eh Member Posts: 46
    I understand what you went through with your wife. I figured it would be a problem for me too. They like style. We like substance. That's why I was trying to hold off from driving the Lexus lookalikes, so that she would drive the other vehicles first, without prejudice. I really wanted her to try the Acadia, but they were parked right beside the Enclaves, and once she saw the Enclave, it was all over. I'm afraid the blinders are on now.
    By the way, I would have gladly tried an Outlook if we had a Saturn dealer near us, but we don't.
    I hope that you and your wife are enjoying the Outlook. I imagine that it is a great vehicle, if it is anything like the Enclave that we drove.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    if you bought a saturn, I'm sure your local buick dealer would be happy to take your money to do the service/warranty work on it locally like my local lincoln dealer does on my ford. it actually is a nice way to go as customer service will quite possibly be nicer being the "upscale" brand.

    save the money on the buy-in and reap the advantages of local service that might be better than you would have received otherwise.

    just a thought... and good luck
  • chelentanochelentano Member Posts: 634
    >> I just flipped through a recent copy of C&D. There were 52 ads placed by non auto manufacturers and 13 placed by the auto manufacturers. I don't see how "99%" of their revenue is generated by 20% of their ad space. That makes no sence. Once again, do you have proof that their assessments of vehicles is asque and based on monies that various auto manufacturers give them? Such as Toyota and Honda gaining praise over Mitsu because Honda and Toyota advertise more with that magazine? BTY, the issue of C&D I flipped through was March 07, and there was one Toyota, one Honda and one Mitsu ad, all were full page. I think it is safe to say, they all cost the same.

    This site where you’ve read that comparo for instance is almost 100% car advertising. I looked through the Automobile mag and yes, in fact more then 50% automotive ads are by non auto manufacturers (not quite 80% though), which are tires, stereo, even a diamond ring. But we also don’t know how much a manufacturer pays to a magazine to do a car review, which is in addition to regular ads.

    Regardless of the other advertised goods, these are still a car magazines, which issue “Car of the year” awards or publish car comparison ratings. They don’t rate tires nor they say that Bose is better then Harman Kardon, which is better then Pioneer. So basically this is a car magazine, which issues car ratings and it gets substantial revenue from car manufacturers. Enough said, it’s a marketing magazine.

    Imagine, that judge and jury in a court room are paid directly by one or both sides of the law suite. Would you really need any proof in addition to some common sense, that this can not be a fair trial???
  • chelentanochelentano Member Posts: 634
    >> I think you misunderstood me. You personal opinion that magazines' opinions of vehicles are bias due to revenue generated by advertisement does not count. Not your actual opinion of the vehicle.

    No you misunderstood: According to your own logic, your personal opinion that magazines' opinions of vehicles are not bias due to revenue generated by advertisement does not count (unless you have a proof). If you want to be consistent, personal opinion of “experts” should not count either, uless they have a "proof".

    Also we don’t know qualifications of these “experts”. I am more interested in ratings here on edmunds.com by real-world owners. Real-world owners don't market or sell cars, but instead they buy them paying hard earned dollars. I have more trust to a 100 of real people who bought a car and drive it for a few months, rather then to one magazine “expert”, who drives a brand new car from dealership just for an hour and who is paid by advertising dollars.
  • mchappellmchappell Member Posts: 52
    No you misunderstood: According to your own logic, your personal opinion that magazines' opinions of vehicles are not bias due to revenue generated by advertisement does not count (unless you have a proof). If you want to be consistent, personal opinion of “experts” should not count either, uless they have a "proof".

    Isn't the burden of proof normally on the one making the accusation?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Pardon my typo on the HP rating.

    The diesel sounds great, in fact if it were for me that would probably be my choice. We don't really want to wait that long, though.

    The diesel boxer has received rave reviews, and manages to be both quick and efficient. Let's see how they price it.

    To answer your question, I think it'll be interesting to see if Honda brings a diesel CR-V before Subaru brings a diesel Forester. It would be nice to be able to have choices.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Correct. I never made any accusation, he did. I have only asked for proof of his allegation. I never made any allegation.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    Jamie LaReau
    Automotive News
    January 21, 2008 - 12:01 am ET

    "DETROIT — General Motors is boosting production of its hot-selling Buick Enclave crossover. It will also switch to a "turn and earn" allocation system in which dealers who sell the most Enclaves will get the biggest allotment of them.

    Enclave inventory "is still very, very tight — in fact, we're changing the process of allocation," says Jim Bunnell, head of Buick, Pontiac and GMC. "We'll flip it more to a turn-and-earn. It's been on a controlled allocation, and we're doing everything possible to maximize growth."

    Over the next three months, GM will increase Enclave production, Bunnell said at the auto show. Monthly sales were projected at around 3,000 units but have been 4,000 to 5,000. The company sold 4,726 Enclaves in December.

    GM will continue the two-shift operation at its plant near Lansing, Mich., where the crossover is built. But "we'll remix the plant to get the optimal build and have as many Enclaves as we possibly can," Bunnell said. "Over time, we'll see more month over month."

    Lease deals have been the main incentive offer on the Enclave, Bunnell said.

    "We're not going to run a lot of cash offers on them," he said, "because frankly, we don't need to."
  • mchappellmchappell Member Posts: 52
    Correct. I never made any accusation, he did. I have only asked for proof of his allegation. I never made any allegation.

    Understood. My comment was directed to the poster that is stating that the magazines are totally biased due to ad revenues.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wow, they never had that problem with the Terraza.

    Still, locally Fitzgerald Buick has prices hovering around invoice (some above, some below).

    They do only have 3 in stock, though.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I know. Thanks ;)
  • hoser0ehhoser0eh Member Posts: 46
    Thanks freealfas.
    I hope that they increase Enclave production enough so more will be available by March. I'm pretty sure that my wife is going to want one (though I've learned to never ASSume anything when it comes to my wife) and I want to have some sort of negotiating room. On the other hand, she might like the Veracruz or CX9. We have appointments to test them both this week.
  • samf10samf10 Member Posts: 24
    You probably can find a similarly equipped Veracruz for almost 8-10K less than the Enclave. Enclave does have a great look though. Personally scared off by issues reported on the forum and stories of poor service/experiences by a lot of dealers/GM themselves. Plus the 40k+ price tag, rather get an MDX in that range. I am very curious to see what you think of the Veracruz and CX-9.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let us know what you think once you've driven them.
  • wamba2000wamba2000 Member Posts: 146
    I too was in the market for a crossover. I drove both the 2008 Veracruz and 2008 Santa Fe, along with the Honda Pilot, Toyota Rav4 and Highlander. Having an 06 Hyundai Azera and the experience (great) with it, I was leaning toward the value delivered by Hyundai.

    The Veracruz is very nice, comfortable and performs very well. It was more quiet than any of the others, road feel and handling was in the top third. I also drove the Santa Fe Limited, but found the headroom was compromised by the now standard sunroof in the Limited. Drove the Santa Fe SE model, still got the V6 and 5 spd AT, but no leather or other nice features. WE determined the Santa Fe was the better size for our needs, so bought the SE.

    Bottom line, my 6'6" frame fits well, ride is good and quiet, handling great, plus my 6'8" 15 year old (yes, he doesn't fit in anything) can sit in the back. The reclining rear seats was a big plus for comfort.

    The Limited had one feature I thought was cool: a 110v AC outlet, perfect to plug in your laptop or cell phone, etc. if needed. Saves one less converter to buy.

    Last comment: Dealers are making some great deals, I bought the 08 Santa Fe $1300 under invoice. There were no rebates at that time. If your dealer has several Veracruz models, I'd expect you could negotiate a good deal below invoice.

    I appreciate all your comments on this forum; we all have our manufacturer preferences and we drive what works best for us. Your insights and comments help in the study of what will work best. Best of all, the comments are done with respect and we can disagree without getting burned.

    Good luck to all
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    You can test drive Acadia and Enclave. There are biggest in class CUV's. Plus 08' model doesn't problems that the 07 had, also 09' model will come with 3.6L DI engine. ( same as CTS).
    Also the CX-9 will be good choice.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Congrats.

    Strange, your post was repeated 5 times but I think it wasn't your fault, I've noticed other threads are getting double-posts as well.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Some server glitch or something this morning bit us and caused a bunch of dupes around the forums. We'll try to clean most of them out.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Strange, your post was repeated 5 times

    Probably hit refresh instead of view new posts.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    In this case you'd try to post and nothing would happen. So you'd click Post again. I wound up posting the same message about 10 times over in Inconsiderate Drivers this morning without realizing it, until the glitch cleared up.

    I haven't heard what exactly happened but it seems copacetic now.
  • wamba2000wamba2000 Member Posts: 146
    The site appeared not to be taking the post. Thank you, Steve, for cleaning up the duplicates.
  • zman3zman3 Member Posts: 857
    Having an 06 Hyundai Azera and the experience (great) with it, I was leaning toward the value delivered by Hyundai.

    I had never been in a Hyundai until we rented an Azera over Thankgiving. I came away quite favorably impressed. It was very solid and rattle free. The transmission response was a little sluggish I thought, but it was a very nice vehicle.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Go GM.

    They've been having some hits lately. All they have to do now is not overshoot this huge demand. GM finally has a product that sells like a Honda (supply just meets demand). The Acadia doesn't have a lot of incentives either.

    I have said I like the Acadia more than the Enclave, but at the autoshow I finally saw two near each other, and that Enclave looks pretty good...
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    http://blogs.edmunds.com/?14@@/roadtests

    A plug for Edmunds long-term blog. They have a Veracruz, CX-9 & Acadia for there long-term blogs, so here's some more info from different drivers. From what I've read on the Veracruz, it seems good on the surface, but down deep it's still a hyundai.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    I had different experience. I have never thought that Hyundai doesn't hold a road, until I got for rent Elentra, they didn't anything else. What a piece of ..... In first place I thought it's something wrong with steering, I came back and exchange for another one, but same result. I don't know who's buying this cars, probably have not driven anything else in their life's.
  • broochbrooch Member Posts: 18
    Man, your grammar sucks, can barely understand what u are trying to say. I on the other hand have had a great experience with my Hyundai.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    let's paint this a little more accurately;

    now all they have to do is re-engineer it to get the weight out of it and come up a more efficient powerplant to take into account the new cafe regs. if they would have put it on a diet in the first place that would one less task on the list of things to do to stay competitive and conform to evolving regulations that they all seemed to think would never get here with all of their lobbying, whining and such.

    so call it hits on some fronts and falling squarely on their face in others.

    that's also not to say the others aren't faced with the same tasks ahead just to varying degrees.

    looking forward to the chicago auto show to finally sit in some to see what all the hype is about around here for all of them.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    to equate the elantra to ANYTHING that hyundai has on the dealer showroom floor in 2008 is just plain silly.

    let's think about this I got to rent a few J body & geo gm cars here and there and you can't tell me they were much better than an elantra. does that have any bearing on the lambda's of today that you so admire, NO.

    not that I'm running out to buy one but they all have their strengths/weakness' and you simply can't apply that false logic to any of the CUV manufaturer's at this point in this day/age.

    escorts, glc's, corolla's, civics, j bodies, rabbits, they all blew to varying degree's. rust, poor fit, finish, lousy materials, the list can be made for each.

    try again Vad.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    try again Vad.

    Or not, that'd be ok too. An experience with a compact car from one company has nothing to do with that same company's new Crossover. The Saturn Ion is a piece of Crapola as far as I'm concerned, but it doesn't mean the Outlook will be.
  • freealfasfreealfas Member Posts: 652
    noted...
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Man, your grammar sucks …

    Let's cut some slack. Our international members typically speak English far better than we can speak their languages. I give Vad an A+ for effort! :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    Off topic:
    http://www.ocala.com/assets/slideshow/greystone/index.html

    Do not let the kids drive a muscle cars.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    An experience with a compact car from one company has nothing to do with that same company's new Crossover

    Well said, in fact the leather in the Veracruz puts the leather in Hyundai's own Entourage to shame. Much higher grade of materials.

    They are not the same at all, that is the whole point.

    The Azera was a good start, the Veracruz took it one step further, and pretty soon you may sit in a Genesis and simply refuse the believe this is from the same company that used to make the 1986 Excel.

    The new Sonata and Santa Fe and a definite step down (from the Veracruz) in terms of material grade, but that is reflected in the price points.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I read that. I also read what the kid posted in the M5 forums as well. Very sad.

    It hit me really hard, for I was almost killed in a car accident back in May of 1998. My friend was driving his 97 Mustang GT, I was the passenger, we hit a hairpin corner at 60, we spun out and got t-boned by a Ford Expedition. I broke every rib and had a collapsed lung. I had to be extracted from the vehicle. Spent a while in the hospital. If I had not seen the Expo comming, and attempted to move out of the way, I would not be here. The car was destroyed. I was 19 at the time and my friend was 18. He and I both learned a lesson in joy riding. Still best friends to this day.
  • vad1819vad1819 Member Posts: 309
    Hyundai or Kia are designed cars look like they 10 years behind. The leather or interior can look great, but is it durable?
    We are all know car makers like BMW, GM, Ford, Mercedes make their car forever.Their engines going hundreds and hundreds miles. Will korean car do same?
    I don't believe it. All previous generation this car only good for 100k then it's a junk.
    So when you're taking car for lease it maight have a point. The cheap, almost maintenance free. But for buy, I will take Toyota or GM over Hyundai or Kia. The cheap goods have never been a good. All Walmart in this goods. So I'm not saying don't buy these cars, but on market have better choice then this cars.
    In same depertment Suzuki, Daewoo, Geo, Isuzu. By the way used to be on this list was Saturn. But it's really came out a very good in last couple years. The new Vue is a very good design, but I'm still doubt about how it will look after 100K.
    That' my point how car will look after 100k the interior and exterior.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Hyundai or Kia are designed cars look like they 10 years behind.

    Styling is personal taste.

    Which vehicle looks ten years behind, here?

    image
    image

    The leather or interior can look great, but is it durable?

    I can ask the same question of any carmaker. The last GM vehicle I spent reasonable time in was a 2 year old Tahoe with less than 60k miles. I counted no less than three dashboard/center-control lights that were burned out. Pitiful quality for a $35k vehicle.

    We are all know car makers like BMW, GM, Ford, Mercedes make their car forever.

    No, we don't.

    I wouldn't bet money that a Hyundai couldn't last as long as a GMC/Chevy/Ford. In fact, I'd probably bet the other way around. A decade ago is a decade ago. Today is today. Hyundai is building reliable, competitive vehicles. Thankfully, GM/Ford seem to finally "get it" and are doing the same thing.
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