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Crossover SUV Comparison

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Except they aren't. Yes, they started with Mazda6 components, but each was designed separately. That doesn't say they don't share "more than minor structures." Different platforms can do that. Again, the CX-7 is as related to the Edge as the CX-9, but they are not the same platform. (The 7 also uses components from other Mazda platforms.)

    You seem to be saying that the Mazda6, MKZ, CX-7, CX-9, MKX, and Edge are all the same car with different body panels, because they started with some guts of the Mazda6. Whatever. Semantics. Your definition of platform is far more generic than what manufacturers use. Your way of defining platform would reduce the number of platforms of many car makers. You'd probably say the Jaguar S-Type and the Mustang use the same platform. Most people will still see them as very different cars.
  • practicalpractical Member Posts: 53
    Just told by a dealer, Veracruz should be in the show room by 02/28, however, will delay for 2 months at least because the strike already going on for a month in Korea. They build it there.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I never said anything about the CX-7. I said the CX-9, MKX, Edge, 6, F/M/Z all ride on the GG/GY (CD3) platform.

    Of course the manufactuers are going to tell you they are different, it's called marketing. Bottom line, it's a cost saving strategy, and there is nothing wrong with it.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Except they are on the same platform. They aren't nearly as different as Jad and Stang.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    The CX-9 is definitely related to the Ford Edge; from the firewall forwarded, stampings are the same. Basic suspension is shared with the Mazda 6 architecture. However, the CX-9 is built in Japan and the only parts it shares with the Edge, beyond the front end stampings, are the Ford-built V6 engine, and some Mazda6-derived suspension parts. Both vehicles have a six-speed automatic transmission, but the CX-9's is different, built by Aisin. I brought up the fact that CX-7 also began life with the CD3 as a base, from which its basic structure was modified.

    The CX-9 appears to have better dynamics and quality than Edge. A lot of that was accomplished through tuning and better materials. But bottom line, the CX-9 is more distantly related (thank goodness) to the Edge than the Acadia is to the Enclave.
  • vrmvrm Member Posts: 310
    GM's new SUV is a winner.

    The Honda Pilot looks like a toy in front of this vehicle. In a frontal collision, the Acadia will crush the Pilot - just like you crush an empty can of Coke.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "The Honda Pilot looks like a toy in front of this vehicle. In a frontal collision, the Acadia will crush the Pilot - just like you crush an empty can of Coke."

    What are the crash statistics of the new Acadia? The Pilot got the highest crash rating from the Insurance Institute, both front and side. Actually, the Pilot is one of the 2007 Safety award winners... :confuse:

    Considering that the two vehicles are not that different in weight, how did you arrive at this conclusion? At this point I would put the shadow of doubt on the Chevy, due to it's not being tested yet.

    FWIW, the Gen 2 Prius in Europe was crash tested against a Toyota Land Cruiser - and the occupants would have survived. Good design is quite capable of protecting occupants. And those two are not anywhere near the same size or weight.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    This post is hysterical...

    Got any basis on the statement "the Acadia will crush the Pilot?"

    Too bad with more power than the Pilot, GM is starting out behind in acceleration. At least economy is relatively good. A solid contender for sure, especially to the GM faithful. Turning the Pilot into a toy, I'm not so sure.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,295
    weight has it's advantages.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • mxylplik21mxylplik21 Member Posts: 18
    Meant that without the captains chairs, and with two car seats installed in the second row, you can't get into the third row because to slide the seat forward, the seat has to collapse.

    If you have captains chairs, a small kid can slip into the third row (obviously even with two car seats installed).
  • carlitos92carlitos92 Member Posts: 458
    "weight has it's advantages."

    It sure does. That's why manufacturers moved to aluminum-block engines, and why F1 racers and cost-is-no-object sports cars are built with composites and carbon fiber... :confuse:
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    i don't know who posted this, but it's gone a little over board. (not yours steveibie, the one you posted to).

    But it does stack very well. Acadia also recieved the highest crash test ratings, and was selected midsize SUV/ crossover of the year by a number of different auto observers. This isn't completely related to that post, but I think the GMC does better thatn the Honda in space ergonomics to. I mean- would you rather sit in the third row of the Pilot or Acadia? (it's oppinion- I think the Acadia looks ten times better, too.)
    I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks, though the Honda Pilot was a great competor, and at the head of it's classed, It's been well upstaged by Acadia and Lambda simblings.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Too bad with more power than the Pilot, GM is starting out behind in acceleration.

    THe Acadia does 0-60 faster than the Pilot. I don't know exact numbers (too lazy) but I do know this. Adn it makes sense- add 200 lbs and 35 hp. that actually improves lbs to hp ratio. And yeah, Fuel economy is a good amount better.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Funny, the one test I read (maybe it was C&D?, could've been MT) specifically mentioned it being .5 sec behind the Pilot in acceleration, the basis of my comment.

    The Acadia was clocked at 8.1 sec I think in that magazine test.
  • arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    8.4 sec was the best I have heard. MT consistently gets better 0-60 times than any other tester I've seen so it might have been MT that recorded the 8.1 sec time. I haven't really heard any Honda Pilot time that is quicker than that though. Edmunds only got 8.6 sec out of the Pilot.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    8.4 sec was the best I have heard. it might have been MT that recorded the 8.1 sec time. I haven't really heard any Honda Pilot time that is quicker than that though. Edmunds only got 8.6 sec out of the Pilot.

    Yeah, i heard 8.1 for acadia and 8.6 for pilot in C&R.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The only Pilot time I remember seeing was 8.1 actually, but apparently C&D got a faster time in their 5Best trucks test. The pilot does have more power than it did when they got that 8.1 second thing 4-5 years ago.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    At least we all admit that the Acadia is a SUV and not a CUV, which is how it's trying to advertise itself. It's tall wide and heavy and for all that size it's not that much more roomy inside for people than a Freestyle, which is definitely a CUV and not as wide or tall as the Acadia. Yes the Acadia holds "3" in the 3rd row, and is wider overall but to me, if I really needed space for 3 in the 3rd row and/or I needed to carry 7-8 passengers on a regular basis, I'd get a Sienna or Odyssey. If I wanted a vehicle where I'm only using the 2nd row most of the time, but when I do use the 3rd row I want adults to be comfortable back there, I"ll keep my Freestyle. And I'm more than happy with its safety ratings and I'm happy with getting 25-27mpg driving in the low 70s mph and in the low 20'smpg for non-highway driving for the past 2 years and 44K miles. We'll see how the real-world Acadia mpg really is after a couple of years.
  • kenymkenym Member Posts: 405
    What's the difference. :confuse: This isn't a freaking sports car. :P This is a couple of family haulers and if it makes a difference that it takes 4 or 5 Tenths of a second longer to go from zero to sixty in your purchasing a 30K vehicle. Well than I have some property for sale just 90 miles south of Florida you guys might be interested in. :shades:
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "But it does stack very well. Acadia also recieved the highest crash test ratings, and was selected midsize SUV/ crossover of the year by a number of different auto observers. This isn't completely related to that post, but I think the GMC does better thatn the Honda in space ergonomics to. I mean- would you rather sit in the third row of the Pilot or Acadia?"

    I'm not a fan of the Pilot - I didn't buy one - but I think it is smaller on the outside than the Acadia? My experience with the Honda CR-V leads me to believe that Honda is second to none in getting maximum inside space from a specified exterior dimension.
  • loachloach Member Posts: 246
    Not that it matters much, but the Acadia is a CUV by most people's definition as it is built on a unit-body car-type chassis. CUV has nothing to do with size.

    SUV = Body on frame vehicle.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Not always though. Your definition is s good guideline, but it would mean that the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the Liberty would be CUVs, even though most people perceive them as SUVs. Also, it would mean that the Audi Q7, VW Tuareg and Porsche Cayenne would be considered CUVs, even though these SUVs are pretty hefty trucks.

    I would say CUVs are unibodies, certainly, but also tend to begin life from car architecture, rather than a truck platform or heavier duty model specific platform.
  • arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    It's really just semantics. The term CUV was created to differentiate vehicles because the term SUV was determined to be unpopular due to many SUV's getting poor gas mileage and having bad handling characteristics.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Yes, you are right. CUV, SUV, SAV (sport activity vehicle)...they are all more or less tall wagons, some more upright and angular, some lighter and less bulky overall. CUVs are a bit closer in execution to minivans, which most people now eschew for the lack of cool factor--even though they have the most space and utility per footprint size.

    However, the group that forms the name of this thread does have different architecture and dynamics, compared to "traditional" SUVs. So a different name, even if not precise, is not out of order.
  • arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    That's true, but some of the first CUV's like the Pilot and Highlander were still labeled SUV's at the time of their release. They have developed differences from what we call SUV's now, but those differences didn't exist until someone coined a new term. :P
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    No need to get snippy! :)

    Just saying, what Car and Driver was saying was that GM is already coming out behind, kind of like they did with the Silverado saddled with a 4-speed (and the Malibu, Impala, etc...). Old tech, coming to market as brand new. GM has had a history of coming to market with a handicap right from the start, I hope that isn't what they did this time; I haven't been in one yet so I can only go by reports I read. Will GM put rebates on the hood of this one too, or will it be able to sell it on its own?
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    At least we all admit that the Acadia is a SUV and not a CUV, which is how it's trying to advertise itself. It's tall wide and heavy and for all that size it's not that much more roomy inside for people than a Freestyle, which is definitely a CUV and not as wide or tall as the Acadia.
    THe Acadia is definitely a CuV as it's car like ride is much better than Freestyle and gas mileage is just as good for a car that outaccerates the FS with much better pickup. It also is actually much more roomy inside boasting almost 40 cuft of cargo space more, and a much more flexible comfortable seating range, and perfect crash test scores. It also looks like the people who purchased Acdias and reviewed on this forum are happier than those who did so with FS. So I guess we all agree the Freestyle is aged and played out. It's time for a totally new vehicle- not a face lift on a mediocre car.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,295
    maybe a should have said mass. it's good for knocking lighter objects out of the way.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • carlitos92carlitos92 Member Posts: 458
    Yes, perfect for playing pool - but bad for mileage, handling, acceleration, braking, and just about every other vehicular dynamic except maybe stability in crosswinds. And, as someone else said, a good structural design can often make up for smaller weight/mass.

    Maybe what we need are European-level gas prices for a while so more people will rethink buying that body-on-frame SUV for carting kids around or a porky, poorly-engineered CUV for daily commuting. Then, perhaps "being able to out-crush another vehicle" will fall to the bottom of the buyer's priority list - where it should be.
  • nxs138nxs138 Member Posts: 481
    However if you hit a stationary object, i.e. tree, retaining wall, etc, mass won't help you one bit if the vehicle isn't crashworthy, which used to be the case with a lot of these body on frame SUVs.
  • tom_holsingertom_holsinger Member Posts: 58
    Wait until they hit 6 feet. Our identical twin sons loved our Grand Caravan, which died the year after they left for college.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,295
    i wouldn't buy a vehicle based on being able yo outcrush something else, but it was good to have when i needed it!
    ;)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • micmayesmicmayes Member Posts: 3
    My family will be replacing our Montana van in the next year or two. I have been following all the talk of the SUV crossovers. I am very impressed with all the knowledge and talk on this forum.
    We want to stay with three rows of seats and we need towing of 4500 lbs. or more.
    Could someone please tell me what that leaves for my choices.
    Since everyone is so knowledgable I am sure I can save lots of time by asking.
    I am leaning towards an Acadia or an Outlook. Since they are so similar it may come down to which dealer is closer for service. Prices still seem very high here in Canada so maybe in a year they will come down a bit.

    Thanks.
  • jrocco001jrocco001 Member Posts: 17
    We purchased an Acadia over the Pilot. I think the Pilot is a very nice vehicle, but the current platform's age is showing a bit, whereas the GM is essentially brand new in almost every respect (newly developed engine, transmission, platform, etc.) The Acadia bested it in interior space as well.

    I am comfortable with our decision, but am prepared to eat my words when the 2008 Pilot comes out. That will also be a full re-design. I think then it would be fair to compare the two in terms of value, tech, abilities, etc. The Acadia is simply the newer vehicle in terms of engineering -I do hope it compares well with the new Honda, but Honda makes great vehicles.

    For the sake of discussion, maybe we should throw the 2008 Toyota Highlander in the mix - its very comparable to the Acadia and Mazda in specs...
  • nxs138nxs138 Member Posts: 481
    GM priced its crossovers rather high on purpose: they are the largest out there in the new crop of CUVs coming out, and will initially draw the crowd that likes lots of interior space and SUV-like looking vehicles. I think the only way prices will come down is with rebates, so I would just look for those.

    Of course in Canada the prices are rather high (the base Acadia starts near $36.5k *cough* rip-off *cough*), so it'll be interesting to see how well these vehicles do up North, taking into account that you do see smaller vehicles up in Canada due to higher prices, higher gas prices, etc. etc. I know I wouldn't pay that much for a base Acadia...!
  • micmayesmicmayes Member Posts: 3
    Hi nxs138,

    I agree that it is a lot of money for a base Acadia. There doesn't seem to be much else out there with the higher towing (along with gas mileage,a nd three rows)in that class. The Outlook is about $2500 less than the Acadia in Canada.
  • loachloach Member Posts: 246
    We want to stay with three rows of seats and we need towing of 4500 lbs. or more.

    4500 lbs is the maximum towing capacity for the Acadia/Outlook. If you need more than that, you may need to look at body-on-frame SUVs instead of crossovers.
  • cason1cason1 Member Posts: 65
    The 2007 Acura MDX is rated to tow 5,000 lbs. so it's not a stretch of the imagination that the 2008 Honda Pilot might also. Of course, I'm just speculating.
  • srinaldisrinaldi Member Posts: 22
    Honda is not redesigning the Pilot until 09. I spoke with a Honda rep at the Chicago Auto SHow and it is due out in the fall of 08 as a 2009 model.
  • jasonj734jasonj734 Member Posts: 35
    The CX-7 is based on a modified C1(Mazda 3/S40/Euro Focus) platform that is shared with the new Mazda8/MPV(not sold in N/A). The CX-9 as you have mentioned is based on CD3 platform.

    The CX-7 and CX-9 ride on two seperate platforms, and are assemebled in two different assembly plants. Hiroshima's Ujina Plant No.1 for the CX-9, Hiroshima's Ujina Plant No.2 for the CX-7.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Pilto comes out in OCtober of this year. That's right- this year!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Where'd you hear that if i may ask? I haven't heard ANYTHING about the Pilot
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    THey are both on modified MAzda 6 platforms
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    I think a magazine or auto show. But it was recently
  • jasonj734jasonj734 Member Posts: 35
    No they are not -- CX-7 is C1. That is one of the major reasons it has a Turbo 4, V-6's don't fit that well in the C1 platform as it wasn't designed to accommodate them.

    CX-9 is CD3 based.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "THe Acadia is definitely a CuV as it's car like ride is much better than Freestyle and gas mileage is just as good for a car that outaccerates the FS with much better pickup."

    It would be useful to get your facts straight.

    The Freestyle gets 19 / 24 with AWD, and 20/ 27 with FWD. The Acadia varies between 17-18 MPG city, and 24 - 26 highway. So no, it does not get better MPG. The FS gets better MPG.

    Also, the Acadia is heavier by 700 lbs (AWD FS - it is 900 lbs heavier than my FWD). No way you are going to throw that much weight around at 19 / 24, with those engine sizes - real world MPG will be way less.

    Garnering EPA numbers on a test is quite different from real life; physics cannot be repealed and there is no free lunch. Heavier and larger engine = worse MPG in the real world.

    Maybe you were thinking Taurus X, which uses new EPA testing and has a different engine. But you said (well, wrote, actually) Freestyle.

    FWIW, I get 20 in town and 26 @80 MPH highway in my 2006 FS. At 65 it will get around 30 MPG.
  • jasonj734jasonj734 Member Posts: 35
    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp has what older vehicles will get under the new Fuel Economy ratings for the '08 model year. It is a nice tool for comparing a '08 vehicle to a '07 vehicle.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    No they are not -- CX-7 is C1.

    Actually you're both right, but let's end this once and for all. ;)

    Here's the real story.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/calculatorSelectYear.jsp has what older vehicles will get under the new Fuel Economy ratings for the '08 model year. It is a nice tool for comparing a '08 vehicle to a '07 vehicle."

    People should note the word Estimate in the tables.

    The FS will get a new engine, and the Acadia isn't listed there. I don't think there will be certainty until the vehicles are tested. But the 2008 ratings will be for Taurus X, not the Freestyle.

    Note that the Taurus X will have a similar HP engine, will be 700 to 900 lbs lighter, and use a variant of that same Ford/GM developed 6 speed transmission found in the Acadia. The concept of it getting worse MPG or performance doesn't seem likely.
  • srinaldisrinaldi Member Posts: 22
    Better ask again, I checked with a Honda rep and the Pilot is not until fall 08 as an 09 model. Check the Honda Pilot forums as well. No changes until then.
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