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Comments
Don't worry juice, I won't. I know you are the one who likes Subarus. :P
Remember that this is the Taurus which will still primarily compete with the Avalon and this to me blows the Avalon away. The Fusion will still be your Camry/Accord competitor.
I think the big question is what that coupe in the background is? Some say maybe an MKS coupe to compete with the new Caddy CTS coupe. Others say maybe it's the MKR. And some are even saying it could be the next T-Bird which is rumored for 2012. Although the latter is supposedly going to be a 4-door.
Get out the manual for that center stack. You're going to need it!
Veto that every day of the week and twice on sunday... honda has gone rudderless with this one yet people will flock... it just doesn't make any sense.
the vows usually say in sickness and in health, they say nothing about about being forced to buy cars you can't stand... I even read the fine print, we're all in the clear on that one...
The profile is actually OK, very Jeep-like. The wheels look WAY too small though.
The rear view looks OK. The dual exhaust is an improvement.
That center stack has too many buttons. I swear Honda is going backwards in ergonomics, it seems to me each new model is a little less intuitive then the one it replaces. Did they peak a generation ago in that regard, or what?
The wheels look WAY too small though.
Personally for those of us in snow country, big wheels aren't the most important thing. Further, lots of folks I'm sure are getting little heart attacks when they go to replace those 20" tires!!
Why spend $35,000 on a CUV that is most useful for only part of the year, when you can spend the same amount on a vehicle that offers you better driving for the majority of the year? Your money is better spent on the latter of the two. I'm sure you will now bring up snow driving. There has yet to be anyone stranded in the snow because of the 18 or 20 inch wheels. They just don't track as well in the snow, but, you can still get to where you are going, safely.
Well having to look at that thing in the garage every day just might make me sick! :surprise:
I will agree that larger tires look better and that they handle better in most cases. But I'm not driving at 9/10ths on the road and really don't need a high performance tire on a CUV. Besides, the replacement cost can get ridiculous.
I'm sure you will now bring up snow driving.
Yes I will. I run dedicated snows in the winter so the OEM tires aren't an issue for me in the winter - it's the 99% of drivers out there on that high performance rubber that scare me.
The other issue is that getting snows to fit the large OEM rims is rather expensive and finding steel wheels in reasonable sizes that fit are impossible. If you go to tirerack in the fall and try finding a snow combo for vehicles with 18"+ tires, one can't even get a steel wheel to fit it - even with -1 or -2 sizing. One must buy another set of alloys.
I don't see the Jeep but I do see a lot of Pathfinder in the profile and rear. Those two views aren't all that bad. Boring yes, but not bad. That face is just terrible though and has no business being on a squared off SUV. That face belongs on a Dodge Neon or something so we can watch "Say Hello" commercials again.
The aggressive fenders make a promise the wheels can't keep.
They should restyle the fender flares, not supply 20" rims.
next to the Pilot:
WOW it looks like they used a Xerox machine for the greenhouse at least. See what I mean now?
I still love my '96 and '06 Accords though!
When you put it that way I don't see how anyone could not see that. That is a little too similar IMO. I still think overall from the A-pillar all the way back it resembles a Pathfinder. It might just be the rear though.
I don't think I've heard a single person call it pretty.
I like it.
I don't think I've heard a single person call it pretty.
I don't think pretty is what they were going for. I consider it non-offensive.
Bob
The grille is a bit cartoonish to me. It's like they put a set of these glasses on the old Pilot:
Grad-
I was waiting for you to chime in!
Lets be honest here. Now, would you consider it if this design if it was not built by Honda?
I happen to think Honda will sell 150,000- 200,000 units / year regardless of how it looks. Does that mean the 09 Pilot design is a success? In theory, yes.
Keep in mind everyone, here on Edmunds, and various other forums, we here are usually "enthusiasts". We don't always express the opinion of the general public. While we all might think its ugly, you are still going to have the "Jones'" go out and buy it, and think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
juice - IIRC, the unit on display the the NY show was the same "prototype" as the original one from Detroit. The actual production unit seems toned down a bit - especially in the headlights.
Auto Show:
Bob
the ody...
the rest will sell despite the ugly stick beating they have received.
Whao! I almost spit out my coffee. The Avalon isn't at all exciting, but at least it's porportioned and not awkward. We've seen only a blurry pic of this, and from what I can see, it's nothing great in styling. As for the coupe in the background, don't get too excited. Ford's still gotta work on the meat and potatoes before they can bring the cake. And from what I can see, that meat needs a lot of cooking.
I'll give you the CR-V, but the Accord looks nice. And I think the Civic is the best looking in it's class (besides the Mazda 3), and cool (my kids will never use that word again).
Ofcourse, since Honda buyers are hell-bent on styling, sales will drop like rain.
Now you made me almost spill my whisky (it's night time now)! I couldn't disagree more, but it is your opinion so I won't argue about it anymore. :shades:
True. But, good grief, you still have to look at the thing every day! There are far more CUVs and SUVs these days that both look good and are excellent in functional areas to opt for this thing just because of the "H".
I just can't stomach paying $4/gal for Premium, now $4 for regular doesn't seem that far off.
Any way anyone know what the 2010 Pilot will look like LOL. :P
I actually disagree. Honda buyers are the least picky about styling, right next to Toyota buyers. People buy Hondas because of their reputation for quality and dependability.
What I am curious to see is, what did Honda do to better the Pilot? They have had a few years to better their product. But, did they do it? What gives the Pilot an advantage over the other new CUV's like the Lambdas, CX-9, Veracruz? Consider reliability a given, what does the Pilot offer that the others do not? Is it sportier? I think not. I think it's pretty safe to say that the CX-9 has that covered. Handling? I think the Veracruz and CX-9 have it beat too. I assume this just by looking at it. Small wheels, and bulky stance and Honda has a history of vehicles that don't handle too great. Fuel economy? We will have to wait and see. Power? Also an unknown, however, it is rumored that the Pilot will have the 3.5L w/268 hp and VCM. I don't know if that is a good thing from by the way many are unhappy with the VCM Accord.
Bottom line, there are a lot of questions that need to be answered to see if Honda really made an improvement with their new Pilot.
Honda buyers are the least concerned about styling, maybe second only to Buick. I even think Toyota is more style-concerned. But maybe that is waht might hurt Honda with the new Pilot. Buyers are used to innoffensive styling-nothing amazing, yet certainly not ugly- and this Pilot is anything but innofensive. They should have just gone with the flow of the market- a swoopy sporty design, a poor man's MDX, or a supresized CR-V. I'd also guess gas mileage won't be up to "Honda" standards.
On a lighter note, this might be good news for GM as I'm betting they are about to get a swarm of buyers who were waiting to see this new Pilot. Just a thought.
I don't understand what's not to like. I don't think the interior is great, or anything, but you get all the features, and it's not plasticy (maybe you are refering to the overload of buttons on the dash?). I' not really too picky about interiors. As for the exterior, I would definitely not say it's exciting.
Back to CUVs!
Yes, gosh darn it, you should have posted a silly face!! Shame on me for not picking up your sarcasm :sick:
What say ye?
I think it's possible, but depends a lot on price. The market has tanked so I do not think they will meet that target in the first year, but could eventually build up to that level of sales.
07 Pilot owner here. Not in the market.
Each vehicle will cater to its own set of the market. Pilot market has been: 1. Reliability; 2. Practicality; 3. 50/50 Mix of Ride / Handling; 4. Better Mileage than Comparative haulers (Tahoe etc) [note: I'm not saying TOWers - for towing, truck-based is clear winner].
Note: styling is not there. Box styling is consistent with #2 practicality.
How will the 09 stack up? Extremely hard to say here, but:
#2 Practicality:
Best features of current Pilot: generous front row space, excellent storage options in front row; wide second row; some usability of third row (more than many competitors), particularly given overall size.
Problems with Pilot practicality: Very Small Storage with all 3 rows up; Access to third row could be easier; a little more legroom in 3rd row would be appreciated; No direct Ipod link (possible with rear Nav); Cannot get both DVD & Nav
Predictions for 09:
Storage with 3rd row up increased a good bit (though probably less than GM trip/quadruplettes): based on thick D Pillar
Better Access to 3rd row, and a bit more legroom door in 3rd row - based on what looks to be wider 2nd row door (makes it easier to get foot there to 3rd row); probably will not have 2nd row pass-through, so GM Trip/Quadruplets would have it beat on access / usability of 3rd row.
Other practicality issue: should now have Ipod connection; availability of both DVD & Nav together
#3: Ride/Handling
Pilot is very much an in-between market here. Closest match is Veracruz, IMO. Nothing like the handling of CX9, but nowhere near as punishing a ride either.
Not as cushy as Highlander, but better handling.
Predictions for 09: one rumor suggests slightly better handling (implementing some of the MDX improvements), while keeping similar ride. If so, I'd be pleased.
#4: Better Mileage than Similar Haulers
This is a weak link in current Pilot. While better than large GM SUVs, it's beaten by GM Trip/Quadruplets, iiuc.
Prediction for 09: not much of an improvement, based on what we're seeing with Accord V6.
In all, I think it will address most of its most serious shortcomings. However, the one that is probably most important in the current market, fuel economy, is probably the one least addressed.
Will a diesel make a difference? One is supposedly on the way in a two years, but the question then is, will US refineries change their mix to produce more diesel (so that temporary shortages of diesel do not cause such rapid price spikes for diesel)? Honda does not seem to be going hybrid in this class. Would a 4 work? It's a heavy vehicle. Not sure how many would buy (I would, but I don't use it for towing, nor do I currently live in mountains).
For now, I'd say it's an improvement over the current Pilot (and able to defend its existing market niche). However, a big part of that niche is being swayed more by mileage than by Honda-Reliability, and I think the GM Trip/Quad pose a big challenge to it (which now match its practicality in many aspects, and better it in others). And it's not going to get those who used to go Pilot for handling/performance (over old Highlander / Tahoe etc) who cannot go to the MDX, and instead go to CX9. But, I do see it sufficiently defending itself v-a-v the Veracruz. Not sure how the Flex fits in, but I doubt the 2 will be cross-shopped much. We'll see!
I think you hit the nail on the head when you talk about what is important to the Pilot buyer. You would know, since you own one. This is why I still think it will sell 150-200K until, regardless of how it looks.
I think passenger room and cargo room is a big issue, considering the Lambdas and the CX-9 have more passenger room, easier to access the 3rd row, and cargo room, making them more practical then the Pilot. While the Pilot gives the appearance of a more useful and larger CUV because of the box shape, it actually falls short. This is unless the new Pilot is indeed larger.
As you said, and which I have stated earlier, the fuel economy is going to be an issue here. I highly doubt that the Pilot will be able to show a significant fuel savings, if any, over GM, Mazda or Hyundai. If the competition is indeed on par in terms of fuel economy, then the ride and drive of the Pilot better sway potential buyers from them if the reliability history of the Pilot is not enough. We all know the new Pilot is not going to win any beauty contests, so, that factor is the decision process is not a positive.
So boxy is good for practical uses, but with all the other choices in the market today, seems to me they could have made a little more effort. But to your point, it will still sell well enough.
I will even admit the styling has grown on me a little- but that's probably just from looking at all those marketing photos.
I wouldn't say it's best in class, but it's a good imporvement on an already good package. And I'd take it over the Highlander.
It does seem that Honda concentrated more on the utilitarian part of the CUV, rather then the drive. It does not seem like a bad idea. The GM's went for more interior room, more power. Mazda went for the overall drive and interior passenger space, and now Honda went for overall utility.
Pilot. 16/22 250hp/253tq
CX-9. 15/21 273hp/270tq
GM. 16/22 275hp/251tq
Hyundai 15/22 260hp/257tq
Considering how much power the Pilot has, IMO, that is what makes the fuel economy not that impressive compared to the competition.
I think Honda knew they had the Odyssey for the people that wanted space first and foremost, so they intentionally kept the Pilot's dimensions a tad smaller outside.