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Crossover SUV Comparison

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  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,604
    when its comes to 4WD vans, prepare to drool at a Sportsmobile.

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2010
    I don't know if it was a Sportsmobile or a Quigley conversion or something else, but I saw something similar last week tooling around town.

    May have just been a jacked up van, but it sure looked like a 4x4 setup.

    A pop-up roof that you don't have to remove the canoes or kayaks from first is pretty amazing.
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,604
    A pop-up roof that you don't have to remove the canoes or kayaks from first is pretty amazing.

    Bah, nothing a 37 lb kevlar Wenonah Voyager can't fix... :blush:

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited April 2010
    Funny you should say that. I just swapped a Wenonah Rogue ABS today for a Mad River Explorer kevlar (~54 pounds). It needs some gunwale sanding but when I was able to toss it on my shoulders, it was a deal. First canoe ever that I've tied down in the yard. :)

    But I've never seen a popup van top, popped with boats on top before.
  • larryqwlarryqw Member Posts: 52
    The low point is right under the rear of the engine. I don't remember if it's actually the manifold or a cross beam support, but it's right there. It's raining right now, so I don't want to crawl under to check right now.

    For sure, while riding the tracks in snow, the high point of the snow is also right there in the middle between the wheels, making it a lousy spot for low clearance. In California though, I worry more about rocks on rough roads.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Yeah, I realized I'd have to change the tire as well as the wheel. I was thinking 17" 70s or 75s; the 16s look kinda dinky, but going with 75s on them is still interesting to consider, especially from a budget standpoint. I also don't want to make the handling too much worse with a higher sidewall, though... but something's gotta give, eh? :)

    Hard to trade Outback's best-of-both-worlds attributes (car-like performance AND better capability than many SUVs), but I just need the space. As someone who enjoys twisty driving, the trade-off makes me feel... :sick:

    But getting to the places I want to go with the whole family will make me feel good, too. :shades:
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    OK, as over-the-top as that Sportsmobile seems, I have to admit I drooled.
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    >"The specs I've found show Taurus X and Pilot with 8" and AWD Sienna with 6.9". Both Pilot and Taurus X have .4" less than my Outback....."

    Need to determine how and where the manufacturers measure that clearance.
    Example: Is it measured from the lowest point of anything hanging under the vehicle (such as a brace or protective plate, or muffler), the distance to any of the drive components (such as axles), or to the floor pan?

    In the overall scheme of things, 4/10ths of an inch doesn't seem like a real big deal to me. Especially with a "street" vehicle. For an "Off Roader" we get more concerned with inches rather than 10ths of an inch.

    Kip
  • loachloach Member Posts: 246
    Have you considered the 2010 Outback? I realize it doesn't have 3rd row but it's definitely roomier than the previous generation. I test drove one and was impressed with the ride. I also realize if you're looking to buy used it might be tough to find a used 2010.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I agree - they're huge now. I'm sure Jeff is already familiar with them, though.

    The new Outback competes with the Venza and Crosstour.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    edited April 2010
    I like '10 Outback, but unfortunately they fall beyond my price range this time. Otherwise I'd definitely take a closer look at the redesign to see if I could fit 2 car seats & a booster in the 2nd row. I know it'd be close. It'd also be nice to get the new Outback's 29MPG on the highway rather than 22-24.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    You're right on. 4/10ths difference on Pilot or Taurus X I can live with, but when I've taken Outback to its clearance limits already, I don't want to drop 1.5" to Sienna's clearance. I'm interested in off-pavement, but not off-road. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Get a Chase Subaru credit card to offset some of that cost.

    I got $1600 off our Forester and we already have $500 saved up to pay for service. :shades:
  • lanbabalanbaba Member Posts: 45
    My wf crashed my 05 AWD Limited Freestyle a few weeks back and it is still in the shop(insurance won't total it, the repair bill is around 7K, but it is other party's fault :cry: :mad: ). The car has about 65K miles on it, and I don't want to drive it any more since it is a major accident and I don't think it is as safe as before the accident although the bodyshop will do a good job. Now I'm on the market again. I will get another new Freestyle/Taurus X if they are still available, but I can't even find a low mileage used one around me. So, I'm on the market again.
    Tested Enclave, the second row seats are too close to the floor, not like the FS, so it is not really comfy for a long trip (I'm only 5'7"). And the third row, it has a big space than the FS, but the hip space actually smalled than FS.
    I really don't want to drive a minivan, so what are my choices? I wan't something at least same size as the FS, but not smaller. :confuse:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The Flex was essentially the replacement for the Freestyle/Taurus X. Have you given those a look?

    image
    image
  • donl1donl1 Member Posts: 112
    I could never get past the look of the exterior sheet metal on the Flex to ever consider one. Just my opinion.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    edited May 2010
    I could never get past the look of the exterior sheet metal on the Flex to ever consider one. Just my opinion.

    And you're entitled to it :) . Personally, I think they're great looking vehicles, much more-so than the bland Traverse. The Freestyle was nice-looking, but quite bland as well.

    The thing about a car with major style, you'll likely love-it or hate-it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Try the Flex, as mentioned above.

    Did that Enclave have captain's chairs, or a 2nd row bench? I think they offer both, so if you didn't like one you may like the other better.

    There are a lot of entries in this class, I'd suggest checking them all out at a local auto show, if one will be in your town any time soon. You can test-fit them without any sales pressure.

    Another option is CarMax - if even just to test-fit several different models, and see how they age.
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    I'm not usually one for large SUVs but in a lot of ways the Flex looks like a Mini Cooper that's all grown up. :) The proportions are good with no unseemly bulges or other oddities and the lines in the body panels keep it from looking like big slabs of metal tossed together. Good aesthetics. And 17/24 MPG for FWD or 16/22 for AWD is not bad at all for something that size.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • davichodavicho Member Posts: 190
    ..."Flex looks like a Mini Cooper that's all grown up."

    Your freaking kidding right? If you are not, man you need to get your eyesight checked. :P
  • islander55islander55 Member Posts: 4
    it's like a big shoe box with a smaller shoebox attached and a FORD logo at front
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    Looks to me more like the "Square" 2004-2006 Scion-xb that Toyota build for a couple of years. OR a Ford full size van that got squeezed and flattened.

    My BIL recently purchased a Flex. Seems to me that it doesn't have as much room inside as the outside suggests it does. Probably a nice car though.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think he was referring to the white roof on the models that are two-tone.

    With that color scheme it does look like a Maxi Cooper. :D
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    With that color scheme it does look like a Maxi Cooper.

    I don't like how you worded that. Makes it sound like a car one might drive on "heavy days."

    Sorry...I had to. :blush:

    I agree with the overall sentiment though!
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    >"I think he was referring to the white roof on the models that are two-tone.
    With that color scheme it does look like a Maxi Cooper."

    Haven't seen one like that. The BIL's is solid red or Burgundy with black interior as he is a Georgia Bulldog fan. He was trying to replaced the blue oval with a Bull Dog logo. Don't know how that worked out. Then there are window stickers and I'm thinking a flag or two. The tire air valves, his billfold, jeans, hat, jacket and shirt all have Bull Dog logos. Almost like a religion or cult.

    That may have had some bearing on my thoughts. ;)

    :
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A little tacky, yes. :D
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    ...as he is a Georgia Bulldog fan. He was trying to replaced the blue oval with a Bull Dog logo. Don't know how that worked out. Then there are window stickers and I'm thinking a flag or two. The tire air valves, his billfold, jeans, hat, jacket and shirt all have Bull Dog logos. Almost like a religion or cult.

    IMHO, there is a point where one must defer to dignity and stop wearing "team" apparel" unless it's at a game - that age is about 23.
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    He just retired from the Federal Government. I'm thinking he is old enough for early Social Security. And yes, he wears that garb when not at a game!

    But is his defense, he did play second string football in high school! ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I can imagine his radio playing "Glory Days" by Bruce Springsteen. ;)
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "I'm not usually one for large SUVs but in a lot of ways the Flex looks like a Mini Cooper that's all grown up. The proportions are good with no unseemly bulges or other oddities and the lines in the body panels keep it from looking like big slabs of metal tossed together. Good aesthetics. And 17/24 MPG for FWD or 16/22 for AWD is not bad at all for something that size. "

    Not a mini cooper, a Scion xB that is all grown up...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's that white roof, that's what reminds me of a Cooper.
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    I don't know how others don't see it. I thought it looked like a Mini's big brother when I saw it, but more original Mini with it's lines.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For people that never noticed any resemblance (check the out greenhouse especially):

    imageSee more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com
  • godeacsgodeacs Member Posts: 481
    possibly w/o a helmet???...... :)
  • kipkkipk Member Posts: 1,576
    Can you post a 2004-2006 Scion Xb Picture to compare to the Flex?

    Thanks,
    Kip
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sure...

    imageSee more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

    Definitely a strong resemblance. I could not find a pic of a Flex without the white roof, so that's different, plus the xB's bumper sticks out about, oh, seven feet. :D
  • lloydg2lloydg2 Member Posts: 2
    As a five-time Subaru Outback owner, I was most reluctant to part with a car that has served me well over the years in the hilliest part of Connecticut where AWD is essential during the winter. But when I took on a second dog – a lab – there wasn’t room for two dogs plus all the gear I needed to pack for the drive to a house on an island in Maine in the summer. I didn’t want a van, and I narrowed my search to two options: a 2008 Hyundai Veracruz with 20,000 miles without a blemish and all-new tires, and a slightly less immaculate 2008 Toyota Highlander with 36,000 miles. Both had AWD, which I considered a must.
    It all came down to which vehicle had the most room in the back with the third row seat folded down. The Veracruz won. I concluded what I felt was a good deal with the low-key Hyundai dealer, who didn’t mind my initiating the final bargaining session by email (thus avoiding the usual showroom dance of haggling back and forth with a sales person and the manager). The sale included a 60,000-mile warranty that Toyota couldn’t match.
    Still, it wasn’t an easy decision. While I had been favorably impressed with several Hyundai rental cars, I was nervous about Hundai’s lack of a long track record. I was somewhat reassured when an Internet check showed that while the 2007 Veracruz (the year it was introduced) had some problems they were largely absent in the 2008.
    Now, after driving 3,000 miles, with one trek up to Maine and back, I can only report that so far I am more than happy with my choice. The Veracruz has more horsepower than the Outback and hence gets over a mile less per gallon, but it has a powerful kick when you need to pass quickly. The first time I pressed down on the accelerator to pass I could have sworn the engine was turbocharged. I average 17.5 miles in and around my town, with lots of hills and sharp turns, and just over19 miles on the highway. Not bad for what is essentially a SUV.
    I found the manufacturer’s manual was exceedingly well organized, clearly written and helpfully illustrated. The biggest surprise was discovering that in shifting down I had no less than four gears going from overdrive to first, giving me two more options than the Outback. This is great for saving on brake pads and a big asset for slowing down gradually on snow or ice. Moreover, the suspension is a little softer than my 2007 Outback, giving a much smoother and quieter ride on rough roads.
    My Veracruz is a standard, not a deluxe model, yet it has a lot of small amenities that were absent in my Outback. Among them: a digital tire pressure gauge; two storage bins in the fold-down armrest; two fold-down compartments above the dash for glasses, another cubby for your EZ-Pass, and yet another for small change. The top of the dash has a slightly indented area for placing incidentals that won’t shift every time you brake. Unlike my Outback, the steering wheel has fingertip controls for both the radio and cruise control. The button that opens the gas cap is conveniently located in the door just at the driver’s left elbow. The map stowage in the door swings out 45 degrees for quick and easy access. The backs of the seats all have slip-in storage compartments and placement for car cups.
    With the third seat folded flush to the floor of the cargo area, you have impressive space for a big Golden Lab plus three suitcases and a lot of assorted soft luggage. Hand holds and foldout tie-rings are strategically placed for securing fragile or moveable cargo. A big plus for me was opening the compartment under the cargo mat and finding not only the tire jack but plenty of additional space for tools, flares, first aid kit and the like.
    What’s not to like? I am not crazy about the blue dashboard lights, but have gotten used to them. The standard sound system is only marginally better than the Subaru, although the heat comes up a bit faster. My Veracruz came with a light blueish-grey exterior finish. The interior upholstery is the same light color that shows stains at the drop of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I would recommend future models come with much darker seat covers. When my right rear tire picked up a screw bolt on that island up in Maine, there appeared to be no way to avoid breaking the tire gauge attachment in order to pry the tire off the rim. I have kept the broken part and will be interested in whether with the service dept. can tell me how to avoid busting it with the next tire change.
    In all, the Veracruz has exceeded my expectations. Drive one. If you share my initial hesitation about Hyundai, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Congrats. I think the VC is one of the more overlooked entries in this class. A while ago I noted how nice I thought the interior was, and after discounts they are a strong value as well.

    I hear the replacement will be a long wheelbase Santa Fe, when it comes. If it gets Direct Injection technology that would be sweet. Hopefully they do not leave out the plush leather it offers now.

    Subaru should have made the Tribeca bigger, note how a happy buyer did not even shop for one. Give it 3 real rows or cancel it.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    We're looking at 3 row SUV's right now as well. Wifey likes the CX-9 and the Pilot. She was ambivalent on the VC - perhaps because it was 98 degrees out and the interior was black. I really like the value of the VC.

    We are going to also look at the Tribeca and Acadia/Enclave. We only wish the new Explorer would be out sooner as my wife is from a "Ford" family who still gives me a hard time for driving "furrin" cars.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    You can buy an American-made Honda pickup or a Mexican-made Ford pickup. Maybe you should remind them of that. :)
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    You can buy an American-made Honda pickup or a Mexican-made Ford pickup. Maybe you should remind them of that.

    Yes I know that I can remind them of that. But as a Ford shareholder, I also wouldn't mind buying a Ford.
  • larryqwlarryqw Member Posts: 52
    I bought a Ford Taurus X (similar to Flex and the new Explorer in size and on the same platform).

    I looked at the Tribeca and found it too small. The third row was too small even for small children. Maybe luggage or Mothers-in-Law would fit there? (By contrast, my T-X nicely handles 6' mountain bikers in the third row on long trips.)

    I was also intererested in the Acadia/Enclave, but found it was just too big on the outside with not much extra room on the inside. The second row leg room was significantly smaller than that in the Taurus X/Flex/Explorer. I was mostly turned off that it felt like I was driving high up in a big truck instead of like a nice handling car. I imagined the difficulty trying to get into tight parking spaces, etc..

    The new Explorer should also come out with EcoBoost that increases mileage 15% or more, along with better torque/acceleration to boot. The new SYNC system is very nice as well.

    Maybe you can wait a few more months for Ford?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Well the X of course is gone. The Flex does not meet the attractiveness quotient required by Wifey.

    I think we'll find the Beca too small as well. Wifey really liked the Saturn Outlook which of course is gone so the Acadia/Enclave are substitutes. She won't look at the Traverse due to the attractiveness quotient.

    The CX-9 is running first as of right now as she's gotten over the Joker Face.

    I think we can hold out for a few more months. The Odyssey is coming up to needed the 105K service and a timing belt - those two work out to about 3 months of payments so it would be a wash wrt to buying now vs buying in October.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Print my Maxi Cooper image above, maybe that will help. :D

    I got an 08 Miata and one of the reasons was I did not want the grin on the 2009s.
  • novabuyer1novabuyer1 Member Posts: 2
    Just wanted to get some insight from others..we currently have a 2004 Pilot EX-L. Lots of miles. Looking to upgrade to another Pilot (touring) or the 2010 CX-9. Not sure which way to go...afraid I may miss the space in the Pilot (2 small kids) but want some of the bells and whistles (moonroof, power liftgate) without breaking the bank.

    Thanks in advance!
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Not sure which way to go...afraid I may miss the space in the Pilot (2 small kids) but want some of the bells and whistles (moonroof, power liftgate) without breaking the bank.

    Not sure what space you think you might miss novabuyer? If I'm not mistaken the CX-9 has more cargo and passenger room all around than the Pilot plus it looks a great deal better than the Pilot IMO.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Pilot's taller & wider, CX-9's nearly a foot longer. In general, interior advantages for each are as expected... Pilot has more head & hip/shoulder room, CX-9 has more leg room and cargo room. Pilot's boxy cargo area may be easier to pack & its 3rd row is considerably more habitable (only an advantage if you use it). Both are solid choices. Whichever way you go, CX-9 surely has enough room for 2 kids & gear. If you plan on a 3rd kid, Pilot will better accommodate 3 carseats across... that was our deciding factor when we traded our Outback for a Pilot.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    When I test drove the CX9 I liked it, a bit sportier than the Pilot, though it's probably a tad less roomy.

    If you live in Northern VA, as I'm thinking, search fitzmall.com, they have a no-haggle Mazda dealership in Annapolis IIRC, so you can get up-front CX9 pricing hassle-free.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    After checking the numbers I agree. I was more referring to cargo space which the CX-9 has more of (unless you plan on blocking the rear glass with cargo in which case you shouldn't be driving anyway) so what specific spacial issues you have will determine which is better.

    FWIW we chose the Ford Flex over both, CX-9 was a close second, for it's unique styling and near-luxury car interior. We sacrificed a little space for overall first and second row comfort (2 adults and 2 small boys) and I don't regret it.

    I never did drive a Pilot because one look at that strange green fake glass-like center stack made me run away. Far, far away.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    One thing to look for - when you sit in a CX9, make sure your knees are comfy.

    When I sat in one, my right knee space was limited by a protrusion in the center console that was just annoying.

    Oddly, my MX-5 has a similar flaw, but on the left knee (the bottle holder protrudes). Mazda needs to pay more attention to passenger comfort. I velcro'd some black foam in strategic places to pad the area where my knees rest, but the protrusions should not exist to begin with.
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