Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

rochcom · January 2003

If the ApexJapan link is correct, the new Forester turbo will be out early in 2003. Power will be 217hp (162Kw) at 6000rpm. Torque will be 228 ft.lbs.(309NM) @3500 rpm. That is a lower rpm for peak power than the normally aspirated engine and lots of torque. Now, all we need to know is the price. Will it be at a $4000 premium as in the WRX? If this is the case, zero to 60mph in under 6 seconds would be possible.

p0926 · January 2003

usa26- First off, forget about all the MSRP figures. Your calculations and negotiations should begin at invoice and work up from there. Use Edmunds' to get the TMV of the Forester you're considering (including options). You must have forgotten to mention several options because I tried to price them for you and came up over $700 short. However, the TMV for the options I did price came out to be just a little over $100 above invoice (which isn't too bad).

Bottom line, setting a $500 dollar hard limit on options isn't realistic if everything on the dealer's lot is loaded with over $1,000 in options. The way I see it, your best bet to get a Forester equipped exactly the way you want it is to do a factory order. The 2nd best option would be to do an inventory search at Subaru.com to locate a dealer with a suitably equipped Forester. Then, depending on the distance, you can either drive to that dealership and make your purchase or have yours arrange a dealer trade. The 3rd option would be to just negotiate the best deal you can for what's already on the lot. FYI: Some dealers only charge a fixed dollar amount over the final invoice (I.e. $500) regardless of how many options there are. Hope this helps.

-Frank P.

paisan · January 2003

Invoice Price (vehicle, options and delivery)
- Dealer Holdback
= Dealer Cost
- Incentives (if any)
+ $700-$1300 (depending on overall cost of vehicle)
= What I offer to the selling dealer.

I make it a simple transaction I tell the dealer Here is my offer, you are making $1000 on this vehicle, take it or leave it.

-mike

rsholland · January 2003

I'm betting it will be a light-pressure 2.5, not 2.0... See my most recent post in the "Future Models" thread.

Bob

usa26 · January 2003

Immediately after reading your comments, I realized what I did. I computed the price on Subaru.com based on the options that seemed to be on most of the cars I saw. I just glanced at the optional equipment total, which included the $800 for the autom tranny. There's your difference! My apologies. I was using that fuzzy math we heard so much about in November, 2000.

When I set my $500 limit on options, I did so because the one dealer I spoke about the options to indicated he'd virtually split the cost of the options with me. The $500 represented roughly 40% of what I thought the options would total.

I'm sure I'll get a good deal on the car, regardless of whether I order one or choose one from the lot. You guys have been a great help.

As far as the holdback is concerned, do dealers try to sidestep this topic when it is brought up or do they acknowledge that they receive an extra 3% or so from Subaru per vehicle? That is, do they claim that they actually don't see that money for one reason or another?

p0926 · January 2003

I think most sales people will try to sidestep the subject or obfuscate the issue when confronted with the holdback question. Personally, I try not to bring it up unless the sales person keeps insisting that they're losing money (at whatever amount over invoice).

-Frank P.

paisan · January 2003

Usually start like this...

"Hi, I know exactly what XXXX vehicle I want, what options, and I'm willing to give the dealer a $1000 over cost profit on it. Here is my price $xxxx. That is all I'm willing to pay, if you agree, I'll buy the car in the next 10 minutes, if not I will be out the door. Thank you very much."

It has worked a few times, I've had to walk probably 2x for every time it works. But if you are willing to do some legwork you can get your price.

-mike

pnassmac · January 2003

I'm not sure if I agree with the formula noted above using 1k as the example.

My suggestion is to use the edmunds site for guidance on this topic. There are quite a few articles that provide tactics and formulas you'll need to purchase the car at the best price.

I've used the advice offered by these articles and for the last two cars I've purchased I've paid less than three percent above the invoice price. On options, I looked up on the internet the market price of the accessories as aftermarket items by going sites such as 1stSubaruparts.com and added them on as well. The last two transactions always moved quickly and hassle-free.

If you research earlier comments, some purchasers have been able to purchase their vehicles for invoice. That alone should give you faith.

Good Luck!

paisan · January 2003

and owning a business, I understand that they need to make $ too. I'm not greedy. $1K on a $25K vehicle isn't too much gross profit IMHO.

-mike

vifam · January 2003

Does anyone know where I can find some 2002 Forester pictures for PC desktop background (wallpaper)? A big (800x600) or bigger Subaru logo would be nice, too. Any help appreciated.

- Jason

jackick · January 2003

Hey Everyone- I am new to this board, we are considering an 03 Forester XS and are wondering if anyone has ever towed a trailer with theirs. We would need it for short distances and the most heavy hauling would be a standard flat snowmobile trailer and one standard size snowmobile. Any suggestions? We would get the factory installed hitch and tow lights.

gened1 · January 2003

Try www.4ester.net
go to the picture gallery. There Are some Forester Pictures there.
Gene

rsholland · January 2003

I would go with the Subaru tow hitch, etc. Just remember, the Forester like all Subarus, is only rated to tow 1000 poundsif your trailer doesn't have trailer brakes.* If your trailer has trailer brakes, automatics can tow 2000 pounds, and 5-speeds can tow 2400 pounds.

* = This is almost a universal tow rating for unbraked trailers, among many SUV brands, and all Japanese brands.

Bob

bsvoller · January 2003

Jacki -

Try an advanced text search on "towing" or "towing experience" limited to this discussion for lots of info on towing with the Forester.

For what it's worth, I detailed our most recent experiences in post #8445 (titled "Hank", to whom I was replying..., which is why I don't recommend a title search...)

Keep in mind that the '03 has been uprated by 400 lbs with the manual transmission over my '01's capability, so the numbers I mention may or may not apply to your prospective situation.

Hope this helps,

-brianV

hayduke01 · January 2003

My wife's thinking about a VW Beetle convertible. There's a little info there, but not much. Seeing the low level of activity in the VW community, at least on the Beetle and Beetle convertivle, made me realize what a great resource we have here in this forum.

So Happy New Year, and thank ou to all the members who've shared information and experience in 2002.

twofold · January 2003

I'm in the market of possibly buying a 2001 Forester but I'm hearing some bad vibes such as burning oil after 2000 miles and leaking oil from the engine. Oxygen and ratio sensors going bad and bearing problems. I need the reliablility factor since I will be using this car every day and driving 60 to 175 miles daily. The question is should I look here or elsewhere for another vehicle. All inputs are greatly appreciated. Thanks, TWOFOLD.

rsunico · January 2003

I have an 01 Forester w/ 32,500 miles and have none of the problems you mentioned. I did have a warped clutch disk that was replaced free. Other than that.. normal maintenance is all I have done to the car.

kens · January 2003

twofold,

If you look at reliability ratings, the Forester for all years, is rated quite high. Also, keep in mind that the 2001 model is towards the end of the 1st generation Forester lifecycle so it's likely any bugs have been worked out.

If properly maintained, there shouldn't be any major problems with this vehicle. Engine seals and O2 sensors are all covered under the powertrain warranty so a 2001 should still be fine. There were some premature bearing failures, but these were attributed to improper installation rather than the the part itself.

I've been driving a 1998 Forester for almost five years now with 60 miles of daily commuting plus numerous roadtrips on weekends and holidays. My Forester has held up fine with regular scheduled maintenance.

Ken

qbrozen · January 2003

I agree that you should check for an oil leak. It may not even be enough of one to leave a puddle in the driveway. Just leaking enough when running and burning off on the exhaust. One of my cam seals went and it took months of putting up with the smell and the leak getting worse before I figured it out.

masan · January 2003

Would there be any advantage in having the rear bumper cover on the '03 X with the unpainted bumper?

I'd also like to know what others use to touch up paint chips on the wheels. Would any silver/gray touch up paint suffice?

Thanks.

the_schlepper · January 2003

Happy New Year everyone!

I was in an minor accident today. No one hurt, except for car. (Both cars making left turns from opposite shopping centers into center of road). I know I will need a new front bumper, new fog light and new license plate. When I looked for "hidden' damage, I couldn't see any, except for the black plastic part that covers the underside of the right front wheel well came out and it looks like it is off by 1/4" and some minor scratches (in top coat) of paint by the grille. Other than that, what else should I look for? All advice is appreciated.

Marsha

stever · January 2003

Too bad! You may want to have it put on a lift so someone can eyeball the underneath for any frame damage. But the shop that replaces the bumper should find anything that's not obvious now, and your insurance would still cover it.

Steve, Host

retiredguy · January 2003

I have just recently begun looking at new cars..I test drove a '03 Forester 2.5xs..seemed like a great car...We (wife & I) thought the 2.5x would be a good choice..Not having tested that model..I am wondering if some of the upgrades on the xs would be missed..ie..brake apportionment, limited slip diff..rear disks..(both present cars have read drums & they work for us)..Since the weather was cool, I did not use the a/c..I have heard that the climate control units can get on the high speed fan ..if so, can this be over ridden?

I am 66 and this may be our last new car as we plan to keep it many years..our annual mileage is around 7k..We live in the Hill Country of Texas where there it rarely snows..

Please comment on any other difference..

I learned a very long time ago..not to choose a lower optioned car to save a few dollars..just to regret it later..but the differences here are not so easily sorted out...Thanks..

rsholland · January 2003

I agree that you may(?) regret buying a low-optioned car, in the long runespecially if you plan on keeping it for a long time.

We have an '01 Forester S Premium (similar to the current XS Premium) with the huge moonroof, and don't regret the purchase one bit. I especially like the heated seats and heated outside mirrors, which don't come with the base model.

Bob

spudman · January 2003

I was in a similar position when I bought my car at the end of November. As a lifetime cheapskate and pennypincher, it went against my nature to even consider a new car, let alone one of the upper end models. I'm a retired teacher and ,like yourself, don't put a lot of annual mileage on my cars and tend to keep them a long time. I made a list of what one gets extra with the XS Forester and how much these extras would cost.
Considering how long I plan to keep this car, for me the XS is well worth the money. The past several Maryland winters have been extremely mild and I felt almost silly buying an all wheel drive vehicle. Tonight I drove my daughter home from work because she didn't feel comfortable driving in the snow. Driving the Subaru was a dream. Even if I seldom need the features offered by the Forester, I feel secure knowing I have them and that my vehicle has the capacity to handle extreme weather conditions if necessary.

kenzinns · January 2003

I have a '99 Forester and have taken it to the local dealer for service while I've used my Subaru maintenance coupons (good for first 3 years). Now that my 3 years are up I'd like to see if there is a good independent shop for Subaru service that anyone could recommend in my area (Oakland, California). Thanks!

masan · January 2003

With the Forester's standard features, I don't consider the X to be "low-optioned." Living in an area where the climate is mild, heated seats and mirrors would be of little use unless the heated seats would help with a sore back!

As for the moon roof, that's a personal preference kind of thing. Some people like them, some people don't care one way or another.

What I miss in the X is a cassette player! But I love the unpainted black cladding.

svcraig · January 2003

i use Kuno's down in Redwood City. It maybe a hike for you. If so, talk to Ray there to see if he knows someone closer to you.

roopower2 · January 2003

Go for the XS. I live in a mild climate (15 miles from Florida but live in S. Georgia) and kind of laughed at the cold weather package but those heated seats are great for the first few minutes when it is cold out and the heat is still getting cranked up. Also, the heated windshield and mirrors-the condensation on your mirrors in the morning is gone within 2 minutes. Really useful. The a/c is set and forget-very easy to use and to override. Plus disc brakes, 6-disk cd changer, makes it worth it. This is the first ever new car we have bought and I figured if I am going to take out a loan for four years on a car, might as well get one that I will enjoy for many years after it is paid off.

kens · January 2003

kenzinns,

I used to live in the East Bay, but I didn't own a Forester back then. Based on the sheer number of Subies in the Berkeley area, there has to be a few good mechanics. Try asking/searching in the Bay Area forum at i-club:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=11

I also have been going to Kunos in Redwood City. Ray was formerly a Subaru mechanic but now runs a shop that specializes in Subarus and Hondas. He's very knowledgable, great to work with and most importantly very fair and upfront.

Ken

lark6 · January 2003

Couldn't agree with you more. I grew up in SC, went to school in GA, and now live in PA for the foreseeable future. The Cold Weather Package makes dealing with these winter mornings a lot easier. Heated seats are also great if you've been doing yard work or other household chores over the weekend - makes going into work Monday mornings almost tolerable.

Ed

jackleung · January 2003

Hi Ken,
I remember U did recommand a shop in bay area for alignment. I suspected I have an alignment problem. Let say if I set 36 psi to all tire, 3 days later, only my front driver side tire drops to 32 psi. I am not sure if this is my tire problem. If there is a hole in that tire, the pressure should drops much more than that.

Rgds,
Jack

nygreg · January 2003

Not necessarily. The leak rate depends on the size of the puncture as well as how well the foreign material is sealing the leak. I would have the tire checked for leaks before an alignment.

Greg

kens · January 2003

Jack,

I think Greg is right. It sounds like what you have is a slow leak rather than an alignment problem. A slow leak can be due to a hole in the tire, a faulty valve or a bent rim. The best thing to do is have a tire shop take a look at it.

The alignment shop I recommend is Custom Alignment in Mountain View. They cost more than your average tire shop, but they'll do the job right.

Ken

kajko · January 2003

Happy New Year to all.

Yesterday the 2004 Impreza WRX was presented at Detroit. Is it just me, or does the redesigned front take A LOT from our Foresters (except for the fact that the lights are HID, mmmmm)?

http://impreza.subaru.com/

BTW, the STi version comes with a 2.5-liter intercooled and turbocharged 4-cylinder boxer engine with Active Valve Control System (AVCS) 300-horsepower @ 6,000 rpm, 300 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4,000 rpm. Oh, and a 6 speed MT.

IMHO: an AWD rocket!

jackleung · January 2003

Thank a lots for the input, I will have the tire check then.

lfdal · January 2003

Just a FYI for anyone interested. When I started the last round of how much oil the engine can take, because my dealer always sets it high on the stick there were a lot of interesting responses.

BTW I do check it cold on a level spot.

I confirmed this by draining every drop of oil out of it, putting on a new filter, adding exactly 4.2 qts, and then running it just long enough to make sure the filter was full. It was right where it belonged on the stick.

Anyway, I e-mailed Subaru and received a response that I'm filing with my maintenance records just in case, that said the engine will withstand +/- 1 quart. That's a very tolerant engine. If anyone wants to see the e-mail, let me know.

rsay777 · January 2003

While vacuuming the interior I noticed some crumbs inside the cup holder and I put the nozzle of the vacuum to get it all tidy and I ended up sucking the rubber liner out and of course I'm one short now. This was at one of the unattended car washes. Just a little FYI. I think I'll put a bit more substantial adhesive under the remaining one. Bob L

splurger · January 2003

Now that the turbo is going to be the top-of-the-line must-have option, anybody think that the moonroof might be available on some of the "lesser" beasties.

I once posted this haiku:

Gosh I like the blue,
But I want the moonroof too.
What am I to do?

Responses suggested I get the silver?!?!? Has anybody investigated or had an aftermarket sunroof installed. How did it compare, what sort of pricing, manual vs electric, etc?

Cheers!

rsholland · January 2003

I hope so. It would be shame to restrict that to just the turbo model.

Bob

lark6 · January 2003

I want the turbo
Don't really need the moonroof
Am I stuck with it?

Ed

kens · January 2003

You guys crack me up!

Ken

ken_from_nj · January 2003

The moonroof is cool
Really lets in the Sunshine
Can't wait for summer

lark6 · January 2003

Male pattern baldness
Makes moonroof superfluous
Must slather sunscreen

Ed

jtm4 · January 2003

My hope is that one day Subaru will offer the sunroof on the X model. Subaru, are you listening?

cbmorton · January 2003

Hear, hear. I'm interested in an X but a sunroof is on my must-have list. Here in Canada at least Subaru doesn't offer factory options apart from the transmission and colour, so to put a sunroof in the X they'd either have to change that policy and give buyers the option of paying extra for the sunroof, or make it standard across the Forester line. I'm not holding out much hope for either of those possibilities, so unfortunately I'll probably not end up driving a Forester. Too bad, because it's a very attractive vehicle otherwise.

p0926 · January 2003

The moonroof is neat
But not in summer's heat
Maybe I should move north

-Frank P.

p0926 · January 2003

There are plenty of reputable aftermarket places that will install a moonroof for you. A pop-up runs around $350 and an electric about a $1,000. The only down side is that you're not likely to find an aftermarket as huge as the one they put in at the factory.

-Frank P.

cbmorton · January 2003

That's one major downside, along with the cost. Aftermarket electric sunroofs tend to be more expensive than factory sunroofs added as an extra-cost option. It would be nice if Subaru could sprinkle a few more sunroofs throughout their model line, not just on the Forester.

d0ug · January 2003

I noticied when my wife started the Forester today a puff of smoke. It looked and smelled like oil rather than condensation. The car is only 6 months old and has 10,000 miles. I was just wondering if this is common for the boxer engine. I check the oil frequently and it has never been down between oil changes. Thanks AL

Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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