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Smart Fortwo

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Comments

  • lightminerlightminer Member Posts: 14
    Unless I'm mistaken, the following are 2008 mpg numbers:

    Corolla: 28/37
    Yaris: 29/36
    Matrix 26/33
    Civic Coupe: 26/34
    Fit 28/34
    Versa 26/31

    Those are from manu sites that say it is an 08 mpg number, or from www.fueleconomy.gov that 'imply' it is an 08 number (can't tell for 100% sure). So - yes - 33/40 is better, but for having 'not a car' I want better than that small bump. The diesel is a great example of what the form factor can do. I still claim if they really focused on it, they could do much better from gas or a gas/hybrid.

    To me, the smart comes real close to being more similar to the Gem E6 than to any of the cars listed above... To go to such a form factor, it better seriously deliver mpg for what I am giving up! And note - that isn't meant as a slight, I seriously consider buying a Gem every 3 to 4 months... The main difference (of course) is range, 40 miles only on Gem - on - and being able to drive of freeways/expressways.

    Overall, however, I like the idea that it might be a conservative number and we just have to wait and see what the 2008 EPA number is for comparison purposes. I recommend that Smart have the test taken even if for some reason they don't have to so we will know what the comparo number is!!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    And, as you can see, the smart is significantly better mileage-wise than all of the cars you list. The 08 smart engine is larger and more powerful than the previous version. You give up darn little in terms of comfort (if any) and safety. None of the cars you list can be equipped with stability control, automatic climate control or clutch-less manual. Yes, you don't get a back seat. But you do get something for that. None of the cars you list are small enough to park nose-in to the curb in a regular parallel space.

    Again, the main thing working against the smart is the slow shifting of that automatic clutch manual. But I suspect most people won't even notice the shifts after they drive it awhile.
  • sbonhartwellsbonhartwell Member Posts: 13
    Uh Oh! I see no mention of a spare tire. Only the repair kit. that could be a deal breaker.

    Please provide insight regarding spare tire or lack of.

    Thanks,

    Sam in Anderson, SC
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    No spare. No room for one. Only a repair kit. It has different sized tires on the front and rear too.

    Funny what different things are deal breakers for different folks. Years ago, I used to change my own tires. Don't do that now. If there is a flat (I sometimes haven't gotten one for many years) the road service takes care of it. Good enough for me, but that may not be so for you.
  • sbonhartwellsbonhartwell Member Posts: 13
    Yeah, I know what you mean. It would have worked for me in the past.

    Although I don't expect to be on trips with this car, there will be times when I go around 200 miles or so from home and having a flat would not be something I look forward to, particularly in the rain,at night, etc. Fixing a flat with the little kit would not be a big problem but one would certainly have to carry around a tire inflater ,12 volts or a regular bike pump. The real problem would be if one would have a blow out where it could not be fixed. Now that would be the pits late at night or on the road.

    I would think that for a spare, the size difference would be ok for a short period since both sizes are 15". I don't even pull my boat trailer without having a spare with me. I see too many folks who have trailer flats and no spare.

    I sure am going to give this spare tire business some more thought. I am sorry I thought of that.

    Thanks for the response.
  • sbonhartwellsbonhartwell Member Posts: 13
    Do these cars have low-roll-resistant tires like the Prius? With my Prius, the gas mileage drops quite a lot if regular tires are used
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    It does come with a can of fix-a-flat, and there are small air pumps that run off the power socket. If that still bothers you, you could buy a spare tire (or two, since the front and rears are different sizes) and stow them behind the seats if you don't need to put the seats back very far.

    As far as I know, the tires aren't LRR. That would help the mileage, but would also make the handling more skittish.
  • sbonhartwellsbonhartwell Member Posts: 13
    Thanks again.

    I want to view the space before deciding to see if I could get a spare tire in it and still have a little room. Of course, I have a few months to decide.

    Sam
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Yes, they still haven't even posted the dealers on the web site yet. That was supposed to be done by now. Am wondering if they will be able to roll these out in any quantity in the first quarter of 2008 as planned.

    I do hear that the transmission shifting has been much improved. That should help.
  • sbonhartwellsbonhartwell Member Posts: 13
    I guess that with no spare, no jack, etc. that will kill the deal for lots of folks. Maybe I will decide to wait for the toyota IQ or the VW POLO Diesel.

    Thanks for your response.

    Sam
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    As must as I love the Smart and probably will get one, the idea of a 3 person version of a similar car is the only real factor that's holding things up.

    - The Toyota and VW microcars will fit three people(trust me, we're talking Porsche 911 lack of space behind the driver!), but that's all you need.

    - If Smart had a flatter rear floor(perfectly flat) and a bit of work, it might be possible for them to fit a third person in the rear sideways behind the passenger(6 inch thinner dash and everything moved up 6-8 inches for the passenger might be enough space)

    All it really needs is 6 more inches behind the front seats and a bit of redesigning. If they can fit a jumpseat in an extended cab pickup truck, they certainly can in this with only a few inches more space.

    The same I guess holds true for a lot of cars. The Porsche Cayman, for instance, would be astounding if they put a single small seat in the center or the rear area. The 350Z also came to mind. In fact, it was such a glaring problems that it forced Infiniti to make a 4 door version.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    I think this is the most current dealer listing.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    The sideways seating thing would never get past the feds. The original Tiburon concept had exactly that, and it got axed into the usual 2+2 for production. Mazda did do a forward-facing 1+2 setup on the Kabura concept, where the front passenger seat was set forward and another seat placed behind it.

    As for the 350Z, the G35 was always intended as a separate model (it was the Skyline in Japan) which ended up sharing the FM platform due to Nissan's need for drastic cost-cutting at the end of the '90s when they were designed.
  • lewtherinlewtherin Member Posts: 1
    My wife and I saw the smart in Greece in 2000 and tried to buy one then, but the dealers would not ship to US for obvious reasons. The smart will not be for everyone and it can be picked to death for many reasons. The bottom line is this, there will be a market for what it is, cheap transportation and easy parking for 2 people who want it to do short excursions and not meant to be a vacation car. It was not desigined for more people or it would have more seats. If you want to haul more people, then get another type of car. All cars and vechiles have their own market, even the ridiculous Hummer, now this car has absolutly no reasonable function at all, except to appeal to gays who want to pump up their image.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Here's a question:
    Given the fact that the seats for most reasonable use/position are 6-8 inches forward of their maximum rear limit/position, how hard would it be to fit in a small racing type bucket seat for a 3rd passenger/child? If the seats were an inch or two narrower and an inch or so farther apart, you could put your feet between them I bet.
  • sbonhartwellsbonhartwell Member Posts: 13
    Now, that is some kind of answer. I am sure it will be of great help to folks.
  • pzevownerpzevowner Member Posts: 1
    Agree that minor inconveniences can go unnoticed when weighed against benefits and this tiny car has many. I drove a Honda 600 for several years (not the coupe), it was very responsive and cornered beautifully, it hugged the road, it could fit in the tiniest of parking places. I've dreamed of having another very small car, but this time a safe, environmentally sound one, for years. While this vehicle might not have it all, it is close. If it had an efficient hybrid engine (pzev or better) I would put up with the slight losses in acceleration and oddities of shift mechanism in a hot second. Do not plan to own a conventional engine vehicle ever again.
    [I am 5'10"-folks used to stare in amazement when I folded up to get into or out of my tiny Honda... That was the best car of my life.]
  • subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    :cry:

    I called my insurer to see how much money I'll save when my Yellow Passion arrives.

    I almost fell off my chair when they said the Smart would cost me $320 more every 6 months than my $36,000 06 Subaru Tribeca.

    If that quote proves accurate there is no savings in the cost of operating a Smart and may actually make the Smart much more expensive. I asked what a Honda Fit would be, Fit is just $16 more for 6 months.

    This quote was from Progressive. Has anyone else received any insurance quotes?
  • subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    If I get one I'll put run flat tires on it.

    It does have a jack.
  • subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    Smart Honda Fit

    annual milage 10000 10000

    MPG City 33.00 28.00

    Gallons Used 303.03 357.14

    Price per Gallon:
    Premium 3.20
    Regular 3.00

    Gas Cost 969.70 1071.43

    Added Insurance
    Cost for 12 Months 640.00 28.00

    Total Cost Gas & Ins1609.70 1099.43

    Smart will cost me 510.00 dollars more per year than a Fit - based on rate quote from Progressive
  • cocktailscocktails Member Posts: 1
    Progressive is one of the most expensive insurer's out there, Having sold insurance for 7 years, my suggestion, if you do not have a lot of points or infractions against you, is to call your agent and ask that your insurance be put with a "mutual" company. Those insurer's have the lowest rates and even give discounts for having your homeowner's and auto with the same company. They also allow low free credits and other kick backs for falling into different catagories. If your agent doesn't offer coverage thru a mutal, call around till you find someone who does.
    If you are loaded with points, no body can really help, butProgressive may be better because they specialize in high risk drivers.
  • rgswrgsw Member Posts: 333
    It's my understanding that "run flat" tires require special wheels and one cannot use the regular wheels for the "run flats"???
  • subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    I did not know that. Oh well.

    I read somewhere that the Smart comes with a can of inflatable tire repair stuff. The Smart also comes with tire pressure monitors.

    As I understand that - the inflator material destroys the pressure sensor. Which is sort of a conundrum.
  • subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    The new Smart is 8 inches longer than the previous model which could be parked nose in where legal. Currently I do not think its allowed anywhere in the US.

    Those extra few inches might not make practical or prudent.

    In this country with so many driver using the touch system when parallel parking I don't know if I would want to nose in park.
  • subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    I just picked a 2006 VW Beetle TDI. It is getting better milage than the Smart. I haven't cancelled my smart yet. I will wait and see if it is a run away success with demand outstripping supply, I will put my Smart on Ebay and sell my rights to the highest bidder.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    I'm not going to pick up the one I ordered. Too many other good small cars in the pipeline to just jump at this one.
  • leroynleroyn Member Posts: 1
    I have purchased a new Smart car. Have had it for three days. So far I love it. A bit pricey for such a small car, however, I like it in town. I have only had it on the freeway once--when I brought it home. It performed fine, going over a 4200 ft. pass at 70 mph. Could have gone faster.

    The transmission takes some getting used to--the auto shift is jerky at first, however you soon learn to let off the gas a touch when it shifts. I like to use the shift paddles for most driving.

    This s\morning at the marker, a lady in a Hummer offered to trade with me.

    I'll repost once the novelty has worn off.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    I'd have jumped on that in a heartbeat. Could always sell the Hummer and buy 2 Smarts. Now that would be "Smart" :shades:
  • iretired2iretired2 Member Posts: 1
    PRO: I just pre-ordered a Passion For my wife because she wants something that nobody else has and is small and cute (or ugly) and that nobody else will want to drive? (Wife happy)
    CONS: Edmonds rating states in part "engine is not suited for highway driving". Any thoughts on this?
    Engine requires premium unleaded. Why not E-85 compatible? (Why not a deisel?)
    Anybody have experience driving one of these in the snow? We live in South Bend, IN, where the roads are often covered with snow, ice, slush, etc.
    We will have to wait till the second half of the year to get one. Guess this is a PRO since we may know much more about them by then.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    I'd think with the engine over the rear end like in VW Beatle days that it would go through the snow pretty well just like the old Beatle did.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Edmunds is wrong. The smart is fine engine-wise for freeway driving: enough power and quiet enough. It is just that crosswinds will be more of a factor with such a small car. It should be good in snow with the rear angine and rear drive, traction control and stability control. And you don't have to use premium. It's just that you will get slightly better performance with premium.
  • aladdinsanealaddinsane Member Posts: 182
    I totally agree, gregg_VW...

    This little critter should do just fine on slick or snowy roads, eventhough CanadianDriver.com did a test of it, about a year ago or so, and found this machine to be lacking in traction on snow...but their test was done in deep snow, if I remember correctly. Canadian winters can be quite brutal, weatherwise, especially with snow...

    It's nice to know that its Mitsubishi powerplant can run on regular, though, but it WILL cut preformance...this IS true!

    Peace!<-AladdinSane-<- :shades: -
  • stevevillatorostevevillatoro Member Posts: 30
    Liberty Mutual is partnered with smart for insurance, and they're a GREAT company. My premium is $420/year for full coverage.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Edmunds has the same problem all of the auto magazines have. They all aspire to be like those guys on Top Gear who spend their life driving silly high-end exotics.

    0-60 times? Revving the engine to 3-4000 RPM and then manually dumping it into gear. Then they hold it in second until it hits 60mph. (yes, with an automatic!) Completely unrealistic but they all do it. I timed 0-60 in an IS300 a few years back letting the automatic do its thing and it was about 10 seconds. Their testing is just not in line with reality. If it's a manual, they redline it and dump the clutch in 2nd or 3rd. If I did that every day, I'd need a new clutch in 3-4 months.

    It's not that they lie, it's that they are a bunch of incredibly jaded and geekish people after years and years of reviewing vehicles. Case in point - they think that anything less than 6 seconds 0-60 is crap.

    So of course they think the Smart is worthless and underpowered. Funny thing, though... I don't need to race some guy at a light.
  • choqokatchoqokat Member Posts: 1
    i'm really glad to read this because i've tried and tried to get a quote with LM (my current ins) with no success...online. did you speak with them at their office or by phone, and did you get the full replacement component that is new for 2008?
  • subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    I called, could not get it on line with Progressive. I did get much more reasonable quotes from 2 others but they were still higher than other small cars. I was told that to get a accurate quote with a new car to the market a VIN helps.
  • subienewbie2subienewbie2 Member Posts: 458
    Hi Steve

    That is a nice rate, where do you live?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,328
    Ok my 6 foot 3 240 pound frame fit inside with more than enough room to spare. The car handled very well and was rather smooth (although it did seem to let you know about potholes) and the back cargo area seemed to accept the golf bag with a little bit of difficulty. It was pretty quick, a lot more that I would have expected, I don't think it would have much trouble keeping up with traffic or entering an expressway. The transmission in automatic mode did make it seem like it lagged before it shifted (almost like taking you foot completly off the gas just before it shifted), but using the transmission in manual mode eliminated that.

    All in all I liked the car and this just confirms my belief that this would make the perfect second "Commuter" car.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • sbonhartwellsbonhartwell Member Posts: 13
    I sure did want one of those but the lack of a spare tire was the deal killer. I know they must be fine vehicles.
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    I got to ride in the Smart ForTwo that Edmunds has in its test fleet last night. Here are my overall impressions:

    - It looks like a little bug sitting in the parking space - even the compact parking spot.

    - Inside you are amazed at the room. Another employee was driving who is 6'3" and he said there is plenty of leg and head room. What's odd is when you look over your shoulder to back out - the car pretty much ends at your shoulder.

    - I was able to fit my carry-on roller bag and computer back in the back... but that's about it.

    - Don't expect room for anything. Even the owner's manual barely fits in the glovebox.

    - Stereo is OK.

    - Parking is a breeze

    - Lots of waves and smiles as you zip past people

    - Driving (and being a passenger) was fun!
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    Ah - very true! That would be a deal killer for me as well. Bummer. I guess I'll go back to looking at the Honda Fit and Toyota Matrix.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    The Honda Fit does not offer stability control. Soon enough it will be mandatory on all cars. Why buy a new one now without it? I think the Matrix has it.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    ...but the lack of a spare tire was the deal killer.

    I chuckle every time I hear this. I have not had a flat tire in at least 10 years and wouldn't be concerned if all I had with me was a can of fix-a-flat as the Smart does.
  • sbonhartwellsbonhartwell Member Posts: 13
    It's really great that you have not had a flat. Unfortunately, folks have flats from time to time. Many can not be temporarily patched with the goo stuff--which should be removed when the tire is taken off or inspected. I see them on the highway pretty often. Plus, some folks do not wish to have a cut or torn tire whether close to home or on the road. There just is no way to predict when ,or if , it may happen. the fact that it hasn't happened is no guarantee that it will not. AAA does not carry the special wheels if needed in an emergency and the particular tire will most likely not be readily available when needed.

    Insurance is not a bad thing. Gambling may not be bad either,but there is no assurance against the outcome.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    Remember the Smart was designed as a city car which means plenty of places to get it fixed. Never was intended for those long distance tours many miles from service.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Well the other issue with carrying a spare in the fourtwo is that the front and rear tires are different sizes IIRC. So you'd have to carry two spares with you.

    Yes, I've been lucky in not having a flat in years and my experience makes me more comfortable even if all I had was a can of fix-a-flat.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Yes, a flat is a pretty rare occurrence these days. I've had one in 10 years and being an urban dweller (like most smart owners) I was able to drive to a service station without ruining the tire.
  • beantownbeantown Member Posts: 228
    I know the Smart has its defenders on this forum. But one mustn't overlook the vehicle's shortcomings. It only seats 2, has minimal storage space, no spare, it is decidely un-peppy, and the fuel economy isn't great for its size. It will be a huge failure in this market. As noted in other posts, people are just going to buy a Fit/Matrix. Heck, even a stripper Hyundai Accent for 12 grand is a far wiser choice.

    Don't forget about the absolute garbage two year warranty these things are coming with. A brand new unknown product with unproven reliability hits the market and the manufacturer gives it the worst warranty in the business. It's one thing to make the public purchase extended 6 or 7 year warranties. It's completely another to make them buy one for three years.
  • walterquintwalterquint Member Posts: 89
    City car or not, the Smart WILL be used by city-dwellers for jaunts to the country, and for long road trips. That's why people buy cars, to go places not conveniently accessible by public transit. With the Smart vehicle, just buy another tire and throw it in the trunk.

    I know the Smart has its defenders on this forum. But one mustn't overlook the vehicle's shortcomings. It only seats 2, has minimal storage space, no spare, it is decidely un-peppy, and the fuel economy isn't great for its size. It will be a huge failure in this market. As noted in other posts, people are just going to buy a Fit/Matrix. Heck, even a stripper Hyundai Accent for 12 grand is a far wiser choice.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    In your humble opinion. When evaluating any vehicle, you must look at both its shortcomings and attributes and apply them to your own situation. Of course every situation has its drawbacks.

    This is why we have choices. The Fit or Matrix may fill the bill for some, but they are much larger cars than the smart. Unlike the smart, none of them offer stability control. Even a loaded Hyundai Accent does not offer automatic climate control, traction control, or automatic manual transmission. And only a couple diesels and hybrids offer better mileage than the smart.

    All cars are compromises. The smart is a unique package and quite inexpensive, considering its equipment level. It also has a cache and fun factor the may be meaningless to some people, but is something none of your suggested alternatives have.

    The smart is also an alternative (and a safer one) to a motorcycle or scooter, though it will not affect that market. People buy cycles for at least as many variable reasons as they buy different types of cars.

    BTW, you are more likely to get a flat in the city than a long road trip. Getting a flat may be one of your greatest concerns. For me, it is so far down the list as to almost not be a factor (and that's why I belong to AAA). And I say that, having owned 27 vehicles, driven for decades and been both an urban and farm dweller. The smart will do ok. It is not projected to be the next Camry or anything. I'm glad it is finally here.
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